Michael Young and Ichiro Suzuki

[wilkerson_rulz-06]

Michael Young has 203 hits and so does Ichiro, but I've been thinking about it, what if we can consider Michael Young the better of the two?
I know Ichiro's done a lot, even in his short tenure, but is Ichiro really that much better than Young?

Young plays SS and Ichiro now plays CF, both respectable positions so I can't judge them on that but what if we say that Young can actually hit for power? Young has 14 HR and 95 RBI this year batting third and Ichiro has 8 HR and 43 RBI leading off. Ichiro is the faster player of the two so he's the lead guy but overall, I say Young has better tools to suceed because he can hit for power and he is also younger than Ichiro.

I wonder how much longer Young will be overlooked as the best player in baseball.

[skyking162]

I agree with your first two paragraphs, but that third one comes out of left field. Deep left field.

[Erik Bedard]

I agree with your first two paragraphs, but that third one comes out of left field. Deep left field.

Must agree.

[EvanAparra]

Michael Young has 203 hits and so does Ichiro, but I've been thinking about it, what if we can consider Michael Young the better of the two?
I know Ichiro's done a lot, even in his short tenure, but is Ichiro really that much better than Young?

Young plays SS and Ichiro now plays CF, both respectable positions so I can't judge them on that but what if we say that Young can actually hit for power? Young has 14 HR and 95 RBI this year batting third and Ichiro has 8 HR and 43 RBI leading off. Ichiro is the faster player of the two so he's the lead guy but overall, I say Young has better tools to suceed because he can hit for power and he is also younger than Ichiro.

I wonder how much longer Young will be overlooked as the best player in baseball.


Young is nowhere near the best player in baseball, and I believe he is very overrated defensively. Good player nonetheless, and has potential to play for a very long time.

[geezer]

Great hitter, young player, and underappreciated.

[Stumanji]

Great hitter, young player, and underappreciated.

Agreed.

Best player? No way.

[geezer]

Agreed.

Best player? No way.

Best player, Pujols of course!!!!

[albertpujols]

Best player, Pujols of course!!!!

yeah, duh.

[Astro]

Best player is either Pujols or Santana....

[hiddengem]

I believe he is very overrated defensively.

Boy oh boy..the more I read your posts the more you sound just like a typical writer that has never worn a jock past high school and thinks he knows whats good and whats not. Kind of like the scorekeepers we get that have never played the game and sit in the booth and judge which play I should have made and which one was a hit.

What is it about Mike that makes him VERY overrated? He has above average tools everywhere.

[EvanAparra]

Boy oh boy..the more I read your posts the more you sound just like a typical writer that has never worn a jock past high school and thinks he knows whats good and whats not. Kind of like the scorekeepers we get that have never played the game and sit in the booth and judge which play I should have made and which one was a hit.

Haha, stop watching ESPN, and watch some real games. And i said "i believe he is very overrated defensively" But go ahead and doctor it so it looks like i said it as fact. Oh well, i guess watching more Rangers games in person that youve probably seen in your life makes up for it. lol.

[hiddengem]

Oh well, i guess watching more Rangers games in person that youve probably seen in your life makes up for it. lol.


Watch what you say, research before you talk.:D

[EvanAparra]

Boy oh boy..the more I read your posts the more you sound just like a typical writer that has never worn a jock past high school and thinks he knows whats good and whats not. Kind of like the scorekeepers we get that have never played the game and sit in the booth and judge which play I should have made and which one was a hit.

What is it about Mike that makes him VERY overrated? He has above average tools everywhere.

His range isnt great, and most make him sound like hes the top defensive SS in the AL, and it isnt so. But i guess i should just go sniff some jock straps instead of watch the Rangers.

[EvanAparra]

http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/008292.php ....

Oops, theres some research for you... the first stats i just searched for right now, have Young towards the bottom of the pack, and the really good defensive SS, like Everett and Reese, at the top.

Or this article... http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/2005-gold-gloves/ See where they say that Young is horrible at SS, and needs to be moved.

[hiddengem]

and most make him sound like hes the top defensive SS in the AL, and it isnt so.

Maybe not the top but he's right there with em.

But i guess i should just go sniff some jock straps instead of watch the Rangers

Maybe.

[EvanAparra]

Maybe not the top but he's right there with em.



Maybe.


Nope, not right there with them, hes in the bottom half of the league. Retracking your statements now??

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=120031

Bill James ranks Michael Young dead last. Over the last 3 years.

At the top eh?

[hiddengem]

http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/008292.php ....

Oops, theres some research for you... the first stats i just searched for right now, have Young towards the bottom of the pack, and the really good defensive SS, like Everett and Reese, at the top.

Or this article... http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/2005-gold-gloves/ See where they say that Young is horrible at SS, and needs to be moved.


Pure garbage. Who the heck wrote that? Pokey Reese better than Jack Wilson? I stopped right there.

[EvanAparra]

Pure garbage. Who the heck wrote that? Pokey Reese better than Jack Wilson? I stopped right there.


You need to stop going with reputation and start looks at results. You obviously dont know how good Reese is. Because hes not on ESPN every night, you dont know how good he really is i guess.

You lost all credibility when you said Young was at the top.

[Astro]

Pure garbage. Who the heck wrote that? Pokey Reese better than Jack Wilson? I stopped right there.
These stats fail to encompass a 162 game schedule, playing every game at that position... sure players can look spectacular for short periods of times at positions, but when they have to play an entire season, day in and day out, it is extremly difficult to play at peak performance daily... wouldnt you agree HG?

[EvanAparra]

lol, you guys are a riot. Yeah, Bill James' stats that account for 3 YEARS dont account a 162 game schedule... You guys need to grow up.

[hiddengem]

You need to stop going with reputation and start looks at results. You obviously dont know how good Reese is. Because hes not on ESPN every night, you dont know how good he really is i guess.

You lost all credibility when you said Young was at the top.

Actually I've played against Reese, Wilson and Young. Played with Everett, Lugo and many others on the list. I know whos good and who is really good.

I lost all credibility huh, ok.

[Astro]

lol, you guys are a riot. Yeah, Bill James' stats that account for 3 YEARS dont account a 162 game schedule... You guys need to grow up.
No, I'm saying there is a difference in projecting a player's performance over a 162 game season, based on 40 or 50 games... and the player actually playing all 162 games...

Its extremly difficult to play at your best over a 8 month period of time

[hiddengem]

These stats fail to encompass a 162 game schedule, playing every game at that position... sure players can look spectacular for short periods of times at positions, but when they have to play an entire season, day in and day out, it is extremly difficult to play at peak performance daily... wouldnt you agree HG?

Absolutely.

[hiddengem]

lol, you guys are a riot. Yeah, Bill James' stats that account for 3 YEARS dont account a 162 game schedule... You guys need to grow up.

Bill James? Who the heck is Bill James? Did he ever play?

[EvanAparra]

Bill James? Who the heck is Bill James? Did he ever play?

Haha, yeah i guess i would take something John Kruk says over Bill James, because he played.

[hiddengem]

Haha, yeah i guess i would take something John Kruk says over Bill James, because he played.

Your darn right I would. Do you go to Express games?

[EvanAparra]

Your darn right I would. Again, who the heck is Bill James?

Haha, now i know you're a ballplayer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_James

[EvanAparra]

Your darn right I would. Do you go to Express games?

Yeah sometimes, when i get the chance.

[hiddengem]

Haha, now i know you're a ballplayer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_James

Oh he's a writer, probably a really good one.

[hiddengem]

Yeah sometimes, when i get the chance.

How long have you been going?

[EvanAparra]

How long have you been going?

Not long, only been in Austin for a year or so, moved up here for school. Did you play for them?

[hiddengem]

Did you play for them?

3 different yrs

[EvanAparra]

3 different yrs

Great place, i love going to the Diamond....

We are probably going to get yelled at for not talking about Young or Suzuki in this thread so this convo should stop in this thread.

[hiddengem]

Great place, i love going to the Diamond.

Yes it is..But MinuteMaid was better:D

[hiddengem]

We are probably going to get yelled at for not talking about Young or Suzuki .


Its likely.

[west coast orange and black]

nah, go right ahead. ;)

[EvanAparra]

Yes it is..But MinuteMaid was better:D

lol. But do you really think Young is as good as Everett and those tier of defenders?? The stats show hes at the bottom of the pack? How can you possibly explain that?

[HDH]

I consider 500 assists a mark of an outstanding SS. As of today, Michael Young is leading all MLB SS in Assists with 465. Rafael Furcal is 2nd with 464. Adam Everett is 3rd with 438. Young has 14 errors, Furcal has 25. My point is that Young and Furcal are the rangiest SS in the game today. Young is more reliable. Why is he over-rated? These statistics don't line up in columns very well but, the numbers are current;
Player TEAM POS G GS INN TC PO A E DP PB SB CS RF FPCT
1. M Young TEX SS 146 146 1278.1 711 232 465 14 109 --- --- --- 4.91 .980
2. R Furcal LAD SS 145 145 1273.0 736 247 464 25 108 --- --- --- 5.03 .966
3. A Everett HOU SS 136 134 1187.2 632 187 438 7 99 --- --- --- 4.74 .989
4. J Peralta CLE SS 136 134 1179.2 667 218 433 16 90 --- --- --- 4.97 .976
5. J Rollins PHI SS 146 145 1285.0 625 199 418 8 92 --- --- --- 4.32 .987
6. Y Betancourt SEA SS 147 146 1283.1 660 236 406 18 91 --- --- --- 4.50 .973
7. M Tejada BAL SS 140 140 1210.2 635 220 397 18 102 --- --- --- 4.59 .972
8. C Guillen DET SS 134 133 1144.0 580 163 390 27 80 --- --- --- 4.35 .953
9. H Ramirez FLA SS 143 142 1232.1 646 235 388 23 106 --- --- --- 4.55 .964
10. E Renteria ATL SS 137 137 1194.1 564 171 381 12 73 --- --- --- 4.16 .979
11. J Wilson PIT SS 119 117 1020.0 566 169 381 16 77 --- --- --- 4.85 .972
12. J Reyes NYM SS 140 139 1252.1 555 167 373 15 69 --- --- --- 3.88 .973
13. O Vizquel SF SS 142 139 1206.1 572 196 373 3 87 --- --- --- 4.25 .995
14. D Jeter NYY SS 140 139 1213.1 577 197 366 14 77 --- --- --- 4.18 .976
15. F Lopez WSH SS 144 141 1236.0 563 175 361 27 73 --- --- --- 3.90 .952
16. C Barmes COL SS 121 118 1041.2 562 187 358 17 88 --- --- --- 4.71 .970
17. J Uribe CWS SS 124 119 1060.0 571 202 357 12 79 --- --- --- 4.75 .979
18. O Cabrera LAA SS 143 143 1246.1 598 237 346 15 95 --- --- --- 4.21 .975
19. D Eckstein STL SS 115 114 992.1 521 169 346 6 82 --- --- --- 4.67 .988
20. A Berroa KC SS 121 119 1032.1 529 175 336 18 90 --- --- --- 4.45 .966
21. R Clayton CIN SS 124 118 1027.0 511 162 332 17 53 --- --- --- 4.33 .967
22. R Cedeno CHC SS 124 120 1041.1 490 138 329 23 63 --- --- --- 4.04 .953
23. K Greene SD SS 111 111 988.2 445 133 303 9 58 --- --- --- 3.97 .980
24. B Hall MIL SS 116 115 997.0 471 163 293 15 54 --- --- --- 4.12 .968
25. A Gonzalez BOS SS 107 106 934.1 449 153 290 6 64 --- --- --- 4.27 .987

[EvanAparra]

I consider 500 assists a mark of an outstanding SS. As of today, Michael Young is leading all MLB SS in Assists with 465. Rafael Furcal is 2nd with 464. Adam Everett is 3rd with 438. Young has 14 errors, Furcal has 25. My point is that Young and Furcal are the rangiest SS in the game today. Young is more reliable. Why is he over-rated?
left Player TEAM POS G GS INN TC PO A E DP PB SB CS RF FPCT
1. M Young
TEX SS 146 146 1278.1 711 232 465 14 109 --- --- --- 4.91 .980
2. R Furcal
LAD SS 145 145 1273.0 736 247 464 25 108 --- --- --- 5.03 .966
3. A Everett
HOU SS 136 134 1187.2 632 187 438 7 99 --- --- --- 4.74 .989
4. J Peralta
CLE SS 136 134 1179.2 667 218 433 16 90 --- --- --- 4.97 .976
5. J Rollins
PHI SS 146 145 1285.0 625 199 418 8 92 --- --- --- 4.32 .987
6. Y Betancourt
SEA SS 147 146 1283.1 660 236 406 18 91 --- --- --- 4.50 .973
7. M Tejada
BAL SS 140 140 1210.2 635 220 397 18 102 --- --- --- 4.59 .972
8. C Guillen
DET SS 134 133 1144.0 580 163 390 27 80 --- --- --- 4.35 .953
9. H Ramirez
FLA SS 143 142 1232.1 646 235 388 23 106 --- --- --- 4.55 .964
10. E Renteria
ATL SS 137 137 1194.1 564 171 381 12 73 --- --- --- 4.16 .979
11. J Wilson
PIT SS 119 117 1020.0 566 169 381 16 77 --- --- --- 4.85 .972
12. J Reyes
NYM SS 140 139 1252.1 555 167 373 15 69 --- --- --- 3.88 .973
13. O Vizquel
SF SS 142 139 1206.1 572 196 373 3 87 --- --- --- 4.25 .995
14. D Jeter
NYY SS 140 139 1213.1 577 197 366 14 77 --- --- --- 4.18 .976
15. F Lopez
WSH SS 144 141 1236.0 563 175 361 27 73 --- --- --- 3.90 .952
16. C Barmes
COL SS 121 118 1041.2 562 187 358 17 88 --- --- --- 4.71 .970
17. J Uribe
CWS SS 124 119 1060.0 571 202 357 12 79 --- --- --- 4.75 .979
18. O Cabrera
LAA SS 143 143 1246.1 598 237 346 15 95 --- --- --- 4.21 .975
19. D Eckstein
STL SS 115 114 992.1 521 169 346 6 82 --- --- --- 4.67 .988
20. A Berroa
KC SS 121 119 1032.1 529 175 336 18 90 --- --- --- 4.45 .966
21. R Clayton
CIN SS 124 118 1027.0 511 162 332 17 53 --- --- --- 4.33 .967
22. R Cedeno
CHC SS 124 120 1041.1 490 138 329 23 63 --- --- --- 4.04 .953
23. K Greene
SD SS 111 111 988.2 445 133 303 9 58 --- --- --- 3.97 .980
24. B Hall
MIL SS 116 115 997.0 471 163 293 15 54 --- --- --- 4.12 .968
25. A Gonzalez
BOS SS 107 106 934.1 449 153 290 6 64 --- --- --- 4.27 .987


Just because he gets more chances doesnt make him more reliable. Did you not see all the other range stats where Young isn't good range-wise? Getting the most opportunites doesnt make you the best. If that was the case then wouldnt Ichiro be the best hitter in all of baseball?