I Hate the Twins

[candy curveball cummings]

Who are you guys praying to? Did you sell your souls? I don’t get it. I don’t get how one team can be so… lucky.

First you get Jared Camp, a then hot pitching prospect, via the Rule V draft. You then immediately trade Camp for young pitcher Johan Santana. Camp never reached the majors and had a forgettable minor league career. I wonder whatever happened to that Santana guy?

Then a couple of years ago you get risky and trade catcher AJ Pierzynski, apparently knowing that Mauer would a) be healthy and b) be great. So you trade your all-star catcher to the Giants for three pitchers: Joe Nathan, Francisco Liariano, and Boof Bonser. Nathan might be the best Closer in the game, Liriano was having a record-type season before he got hurt, and Bonser is a solid starter. And it turns out you guys are okay at Catcher too.

I’ve heard of good front-office management, but this is ridiculous.



By the way, I don't really hate the Twins. I actually like you guys, I'm just jealous . I wish you all the best in your quest for the Central Division Title and, dare we say it, a World Series Ring? :waving

[POLO GROUNDS 1957]

Who are you guys praying to? Did you sell your souls? I don’t get it. I don’t get how one team can be so… lucky.

First you get Jared Camp, a then hot pitching prospect, via the Rule V draft. You then immediately trade Camp for young pitcher Johan Santana. Camp never reached the majors and had a forgettable minor league career. I wonder whatever happened to that Santana guy?

Then a couple of years ago you get risky and trade catcher AJ Pierzynski, apparently knowing that Mauer would a) be healthy and b) be great. So you trade your all-star catcher to the Giants for three pitchers: Joe Nathan, Francisco Liariano, and Boof Bonser. Nathan might be the best Closer in the game, Liriano was having a record-type season before he got hurt, and Bonser is a solid starter. And it turns out you guys are okay at Catcher too.

I’ve heard of good front-office management, but this is ridiculous.



By the way, I don't really hate the Twins. I actually like you guys, I'm just jealous . I wish you all the best in your quest for the Central Division Title and, dare we say it, a World Series Ring? :waving
I will be happy when either minnesota or chicago wins the division and either chicago or minnesota is the wild card.

[probert2436]

Actually the Twins never wanted Camp. Seattle offered them a couple bucks to select him then they traded picks.

And on the second one...

Practically everyone thought the Twins traded AJ too soon. What was not known at the time was that the Twins thought Mauer was ready, they also thought the Giants were misusing Nathan and AJ is a cancer to a pitching staff. Though he has gotten better recently.

[KCGHOST]

I'll bet Twins fans aren't feeling real lucky this morning.

[hey fella]

The only staff AJ has been a "cancer" to is the talent-less Giants staff. What were they outside of Jason Schmidt? AJ didn't taint the Twins, nor has he done so to the White Sox--he even navigated the forgettable Javy Vasquez to a near no-hitter one start (which they lost) and a gem the next. Posada couldn't do that, nor could Damien Miller when he was catching the Diamondbacks. So to call him a "cancer to a pitching staff" is a little bit of a stretch.

[DoubleX]

Then a couple of years ago you get risky and trade catcher AJ Pierzynski, apparently knowing that Mauer would a) be healthy and b) be great. So you trade your all-star catcher to the Giants for three pitchers: Joe Nathan, Francisco Liariano, and Boof Bonser. Nathan might be the best Closer in the game, Liriano was having a record-type season before he got hurt, and Bonser is a solid starter. And it turns out you guys are okay at Catcher too.

You might also want to mention that the team, with the 1st pick in the draft, passed on Mark Prior and took Joe Mauer. At the time, that was a bit controversial as Prior was seen as can't miss and came in and was good for the Cubs just a few months later (and was great the next year). Prior's career now looks to be doomed by injuries whereas Mauer looks like he could be the best catcher in the game for years.

[tigers527]

You might also want to mention that the team, with the 1st pick in the draft, passed on Mark Prior and took Joe Mauer. At the time, that was a bit controversial as Prior was seen as can't miss and came in and was good for the Cubs just a few months later (and was great the next year). Prior's career now looks to be doomed by injuries whereas Mauer looks like he could be the best catcher in the game for years.

I agree with all that, except...it was a HOME TOWN grab to go for Mauer, and I do not see Mauer being the best catcher in the game for years. His frame doesn't seem to lead to a long and effective career as catcher....see Victor Martinez, and even A.J. (both large guys that can't throw anyone out). Not to say Mauer won't be great, he will...but catching??? I don't know?

[EvanAparra]

Why does everything think Mauer isnt going to be catching. From all ive seen hes been really good, and i know the guy has an amazing arm. Why move him?

[tigers527]

Why does everything think Mauer isnt going to be catching. From all ive seen hes been really good, and i know the guy has an amazing arm. Why move him?

Just now, I tried to look it up here's what I came up with...some of the best catchers of all time

Ivan Rodriguez 5' 9" 205lbs (although, the Tigers say 190lbs lately)
Johnny Bench 6' 1" 208lbs
Carlton Fisk 6' 2" 220lbs (how is that "Pudge"??)
Mickey Cochrane 180lbs (no height listed)
Yogi Berra 5' 8" 194 lbs
Joe Mauer 6' 4" 220 lbs

all numbers bb reference.....so if those are the numbers we are looking at intuitively, who puts the most wear on his body? The bigger fellow, and the biggest fellow is Mauer (and he is still growing). Even discounting the ups and downs of a catcher, the sprinting down the line to cover the throw to first. Being a bigger target, means you also get hit by more fouls, making the wear and tear larger, then a smaller target. As I get older, I see what the catcher goes through more and more. That's why I think and most pundents think Mauer, should move positions, or DH? For his sake.

[DoubleX]

Just now, I tried to look it up here's what I came up with...some of the best catchers of all time

Ivan Rodriguez 5' 9" 205lbs (although, the Tigers say 190lbs lately)
Johnny Bench 6' 1" 208lbs
Carlton Fisk 6' 2" 220lbs (how is that "Pudge"??)
Mickey Cochrane 180lbs (no height listed)
Yogi Berra 5' 8" 194 lbs
Joe Mauer 6' 4" 220 lbs

all numbers bb reference.....so if those are the numbers we are looking at intuitively, who puts the most wear on his body? The bigger fellow, and the biggest fellow is Mauer (and he is still growing). Even discounting the ups and downs of a catcher, the sprinting down the line to cover the throw to first. Being a bigger target, means you also get hit by more fouls, making the wear and tear larger, then a smaller target. As I get older, I see what the catcher goes through more and more. That's why I think and most pundents think Mauer, should move positions, or DH? For his sake.

I think that's a good point - it's tough to be big and be a durable catcher. But using guys like Berra and Cochrane isn't too convincing, because in general, ballplayers were much smaller back then. A guy like Jimmie Foxx was considered hulking and he was only 6'0. SS is another position where players were typically small, but Cal Ripken through that logic to the wind at 6'4 (Jeter and A-Rod are both 6'3). You can see players getting bigger when you mentioned guys like Bench and Fisk (Pudge Rodriguez is an exception nowadays, rather than the standard).

So it's probably more informative to refer to the sizes of durable catchers from the last 25 years or so (for purposes of this, I'm considering durable being more than 1000 games caught). Here are a few:

Sandy Alomar: 6'5
Mike Piazza: 6'3
Dan Wilson: 6'3
Gary Carter: 6'2
Jorge Posada: 6'2
Jason Varitek: 6'2
Mike Scioscia: 6'2
Terry Steinbach: 6'1
Benito Santiago: 6'1
Jason Kendall: 6'0
Tony Pena: 6'0
Darrell Porter: 6'0
Ted Simmons: 6'0
Joe Girardi: 5'11
Rick Cerone: 5'11

And these were just the first 15 I thought of at the top of my head, and there was only one under 6'0. So catching has really become a position for bigger players, and while Mauer is a little bigger than these guys (except Alomar, who has been a good defensive catcher for much of his career), I don't see why at 6'4, he couldn't catch for years like a 6'2 guy could.

[candy curveball cummings]

I think that's a good point - it's tough to be big and be a durable catcher. But using guys like Berra and Cochrane isn't too convincing, because in general, ballplayers were much smaller back then. A guy like Jimmie Foxx was considered hulking and he was only 6'0. SS is another position where players were typically small, but Cal Ripken through that logic to the wind at 6'4 (Jeter and A-Rod are both 6'3). You can see players getting bigger when you mentioned guys like Bench and Fisk (Pudge Rodriguez is an exception nowadays, rather than the standard).

So it's probably more informative to refer to the sizes of durable catchers from the last 25 years or so (for purposes of this, I'm considering durable being more than 1000 games caught). Here are a few:

Sandy Alomar: 6'5
Mike Piazza: 6'3
Dan Wilson: 6'3
Gary Carter: 6'2
Jorge Posada: 6'2
Jason Varitek: 6'2
Mike Scioscia: 6'2
Terry Steinbach: 6'1
Benito Santiago: 6'1
Jason Kendall: 6'0
Tony Pena: 6'0
Darrell Porter: 6'0
Ted Simmons: 6'0
Joe Girardi: 5'11
Rick Cerone: 5'11

And these were just the first 15 I thought of at the top of my head, and there was only one under 6'0. So catching has really become a position for bigger players, and while Mauer is a little bigger than these guys (except Alomar, who has been a good defensive catcher for much of his career), I don't see why at 6'4, he couldn't catch for years like a 6'2 guy could.

Lance Parrish was also 6'3'', 220 lbs. He's the guy who Joe Mauer reminds me of most, physically speaking. And Lance Parrish caught 1818 games, that's more than Bench, Berra, and Cochrane.

[DoubleX]

Lance Parrish was also 6'3'', 220 lbs. He's the guy who Joe Mauer reminds me of most, physically speaking. And Lance Parrish caught 1818 games, that's more than Bench, Berra, and Cochrane.

Good call on Parrish. His stature didn't stop him from winning 3 Gold Gloves at catcher.