has anyone ever gotten a save and a win in the same game?

[Mariano_Rivera]

It seems to me that it's possible to have both. If the starter comes out of the game after 4 innings with a 1 run lead then he isn`t eligible for a win because he didn`t pitch 5 innings. The pitcher coming in would be eligible for a win if he pitched the rest of the game and held the 1 run lead. He would also be eligible for a save because he entered the game with the tying run at the plate. Is my thinking correct and if so has a pitcher ever done this?

[ohms_law]

no, he get's the win and that's it. you get either/or, not both.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/official_rules/official_scorer_10.jsp
SAVES FOR RELIEF PITCHERS
10.20
Credit a pitcher with a save when he meets all three of the following conditions:
(1) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his club; and
(2) He is not the winning pitcher; and
(3) He qualifies under one of the following conditions:
(a) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning; or
(b) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat, or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batsmen he faces); or
(c) He pitches effectively for at least three innings. No more than one save may be credited in each game.

[Sliding Billy]

no, he get's the win and that's it. you get either/or, not both.

Too bad; that was a good one. :clapping

[bluezebra]

And they say that Yankee fans are baseball knowledgeable.

Bob

[Mariano_Rivera]

no, he get's the win and that's it. you get either/or, not both.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/official_rules/official_scorer_10.jsp
Oh

And they say that Yankee fans are baseball knowledgeable.

Bob
Yeah, silly people. :rolleyes:

[brett]

I knew that to get a save, the pitcher cannot be the winning pitcher, however what if a guy pitches 5 innings and then with the lead moves to first base, then comes back in a save situation?

[jalbright]

In Japanese baseball, it happened once. Here's the lowdown from Gary Garland posted at baseballguru.com at http://baseballguru.com/ggarland/bbread2.html :

There was one instance in Japan where THE SAME PITCHER got both a win and a save. They later changed the rules so that this could not happen again, but here is how it went down:

Naoki Takahashi of Nippon Ham was throwing a game against the Kintetsu Buffaloes on July 12, 1974. He had a 2-0 count to Clarence Jones with two out in the sixth and a man on first. So Nippon Ham's manager came out and did a double switch, sending Takahashi to third base and bringing in a lefty named Nakahara to finish the at bat with Jones. Nakahara got Jones to end the inning. When the seventh convened, Takahashi took the mound again and finished the game, which Nippon Ham won 2-1, which fulfilled the criteria for a save.

Now a pitcher who is credited with a win can no longer earn a save after the rules were revived and thus this is a one of a kind occurrence


Jim Albright

[SoxSon]

In Japanese baseball, it happened once. Here's the lowdown from Gary Garland posted at baseballguru.com at http://baseballguru.com/ggarland/bbread2.html :



Jim Albright

That's a great story, Jim. Interesting stuff...thanks.

[jalbright]

Glad you like it--and it is one of those perfect events which make for a great trivia question. It also fit the thread perfectly.

Jim Albright

[ohms_law]

Wow, great story there Jim!
Was this the perfect thread or what?
:)

just so that everyone is clear:
I knew that to get a save, the pitcher cannot be the winning pitcher, however what if a guy pitches 5 innings and then with the lead moves to first base, then comes back in a save situation?
acourding to the scoring rules, If a pitcher is earning the win then that's all he's credited with. It doesn't really matter what else happens in the game, if he's got the win then he's got the win.

[Honus Wagner]

(c) He pitches effectively for at least three innings

What does this mean? I wonder how many times the score keeper's discretion came into play.

I remember while growing up, watching Bosox games, that the score keeper's discretion came into play a few times with crediting wins to the most effective relief pitcher (when the starter hadn't gone 5 innings). But, I don't think I've heard about these judgements in the last 10-15 years.

[Brooklyn]

I remember while growing up, watching Bosox games, that the score keeper's discretion came into play a few times with crediting wins to the most effective relief pitcher (when the starter hadn't gone 5 innings). But, I don't think I've heard about these judgements in the last 10-15 years.

This happened in the Mets game on August 19 of this year (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=260819121). Dave Williams went 5 2/3. He left the game down 1-0 with two runners on and 2 outs. Roberto Hernandez came in and promptly gave up a home run and a single before getting out of the inning. While 3 runs were charged to Williams and only one to Hernandez, you would be hard pressed to call Hernandez "effective".

The Mets proceeded to score six in the bottom of the 6th to take the lead, and held on to win. Heilman came in to pitch 2 shutout innings after the Mets had the lead. By "traditional" rules, Hernandez would have gotten the win. But the official scorer gave it to Heilman under the ineffective reliever clause.

I imagine this happens more than we think, it just doesn't get a lot of press when it does.

[ohms_law]

people tend to agree with the decisions these days, is the largest distinction. Your given example is the perfect illustration, in that I don't think even Heilman could argue the decision.
(well, he could but noone would really support him)

10-15 years ago the rules were relatively new, so sports casters and sports writers as well as the scorers themselves were trying to figure everything out. That always generates controversy, which always generates press.

[Honus Wagner]

This happened in the Mets game on August 19 of this year (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=260819121). Dave Williams went 5 2/3. He left the game down 1-0 with two runners on and 2 outs. Roberto Hernandez came in and promptly gave up a home run and a single before getting out of the inning. While 3 runs were charged to Williams and only one to Hernandez, you would be hard pressed to call Hernandez "effective".

The Mets proceeded to score six in the bottom of the 6th to take the lead, and held on to win. Heilman came in to pitch 2 shutout innings after the Mets had the lead. By "traditional" rules, Hernandez would have gotten the win. But the official scorer gave it to Heilman under the ineffective reliever clause.

I imagine this happens more than we think, it just doesn't get a lot of press when it does.

thanks, i hadn't heard about this