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Brian McKenna
09-09-2006, 02:18 PM
How does the 'run and hit' play differ from the 'hit and run'?

Astro
09-09-2006, 02:32 PM
How does the 'run and hit' play differ from the 'hit and run'?
Uhhh... never heard of the "Run and Hit" play

Williamsburg2599
09-09-2006, 02:37 PM
Uhhh... never heard of the "Run and Hit" play
I've heard it, and I think there's a diffrence.

Brian McKenna
09-09-2006, 02:52 PM
I know Clark Griffith and Rube Foster used the play often.

SoxSon
09-09-2006, 03:43 PM
A run and hit play is when a fast runner is on base (one who steals). The runner takes off, and the batter decides whether a swing is a good idea (unlike a steal, where the batter shouldn't swing). This is unlike a hit and run, where the runner is off regardless of basestealing ability, and batters are expected to make contact, generally hoping to drive the ball behind the runner.

At least, that's how I remember it. :)

marty1499
09-09-2006, 04:01 PM
They're the same, but 'run and hit' is more descriptive since the runner on first takes off before the hitter tries to hit behind him.

SoxSon
09-09-2006, 04:09 PM
They're the same, but 'run and hit' is more descriptive since the runner on first takes off before the hitter tries to hit behind him.

I'm pretty sure they're not the same, because on a run and hit, the batter has the option of swinging, unlike in a hit and run, where it is expected.

Also, the runner always takes off before the swing on a hit and run, too. There's no difference there, in description.

Mattingly
09-09-2006, 04:40 PM
Just like men being left on base is the antithesis of a high OBP, the same for the hit-and-run play is the strikeout-throwout DP if the batter fails to connect well. Do well and you've got a guy going from 1B to 3B on a single, or scoring on a triple.

bluezebra
09-09-2006, 05:47 PM
Just like men being left on base is the antithesis of a high OBP, the same for the hit-and-run play is the strikeout-throwout DP if the batter fails to connect well.

Do well and you've got a guy going from 1B to 3B on a single, or scoring on a triple.

You don't have to hit-and-run, or run-and-hit, to score from 1B on a TRIPLE.

Bob

hiddengem
09-09-2006, 08:57 PM
A "Run and Hit" is used on 3-1 and 3-2 counts with less that 2 outs generally. The Manager is trying to stay out of a double play by putting the runner in motion. In this situation the hitter must swing if the pitch is a strike because the runner in this situation isn't always a speed guy and if you take the strike he'll most likely be thrown out. This play is is usually used with a hitter that is a good contact guy.

SoxSon
09-10-2006, 06:59 AM
A "Run and Hit" is used on 3-1 and 3-2 counts with less that 2 outs generally. The Manager is trying to stay out of a double play by putting the runner in motion. In this situation the hitter must swing if the pitch is a strike because the runner in this situation isn't always a speed guy and if you take the strike he'll most likely be thrown out. This play is is usually used with a hitter that is a good contact guy.

Thanks, HG. I suppose I'm a little confused, though. It seems like what you've described is essentially a hit and run...?

Mattingly
09-10-2006, 08:07 AM
You don't have to hit-and-run, or run-and-hit, to score from 1B on a TRIPLE.

Bob
I'd meant a double. Sometimes I'm just pooped when I type. :o

LouGehrig
09-10-2006, 08:33 AM
A run and hit play is when a fast runner is on base (one who steals). The runner takes off, and the batter decides whether a swing is a good idea (unlike a steal, where the batter shouldn't swing). This is unlike a hit and run, where the runner is off regardless of basestealing ability, and batters are expected to make contact, generally hoping to drive the ball behind the runner.

At least, that's how I remember it. :)

You have described it as Red Barber described it a few short years ago. But some individuals seem unable to comprehend your fine explanation.

SoxSon
09-10-2006, 08:56 AM
You have described it as Red Barber described it a few short years ago. But some individuals seem unable to comprehend your fine explanation.

Thank you, Lou. I was actually starting to think that my memory was failing me. :)

Mattingly
09-10-2006, 09:04 AM
Thank you, Lou. I was actually starting to think that my memory was failing me. :)
Nahhhhhh, they couldn't understand past the heavy Bawston accent. ;) :p

bluezebra
09-10-2006, 10:55 AM
I'd meant a double. Sometimes I'm just pooped when I type. :o

Welcome to the club.

Bob

Ursa Major
09-10-2006, 04:14 PM
Marty1499 said: They're the same, but 'run and hit' is more descriptive since the runner on first takes off before the hitter tries to hit behind him. That's how I'd heard it described by pedantic announcers who felt that the term "hit-and-run" was less descriptive because it reversed the sequence of events.

SoxSon, I don't doubt your description of the instruction given to some batters sometimes occurs. So, I guess you can have three types of instructions given to the batter when a runner on first base is sent:

1. A straight steal by a skilled basestealer: Don't swing at the pitch, or intentionally swing through the pitch (or at least a clear strike) in order to slow down the catcher).

2. A steal by a decent player -- swinging is permitted by the batter at his discretion, but isn't demanded because the runner may steal anyway... but please don't hit a line drive at an infielder, or it's a sure double play. This seems to be what you're talking about.

3. A classic hit-and-run, where the runner may be a slug and will surely be out if the pitch isn't hit somewhere.... and, as HG notes, is best if there's a three-ball count because the batter can let a certain ball go by.

Still, I'm not sure what the difference in nomenclature is for #2 and #3.

SoxSon
09-10-2006, 04:52 PM
That's how I'd heard it described by pedantic announcers who felt that the term "hit-and-run" was less descriptive because it reversed the sequence of events.

SoxSon, I don't doubt your description of the instruction given to some batters sometimes occurs. So, I guess you can have three types of instructions given to the batter when a runner on first base is sent:

1. A straight steal by a skilled basestealer: Don't swing at the pitch, or intentionally swing through the pitch (or at least a clear strike) in order to slow down the catcher).

2. A steal by a decent player -- swinging is permitted by the batter at his discretion, but isn't demanded because the runner may steal anyway... but please don't hit a line drive at an infielder, or it's a sure double play. This seems to be what you're talking about.

3. A classic hit-and-run, where the runner may be a slug and will surely be out if the pitch isn't hit somewhere.... and, as HG notes, is best if there's a three-ball count because the batter can let a certain ball go by.

Still, I'm not sure what the difference in nomenclature is for #2 and #3.


Yes, I think you're right, Ursa. I think the difference between #2 and #3 is exactly the difference between a "run-and-hit" and a "hit-and-run." An addition to what you've written is that the runner's speed is much less of a factor for the traditional hit and run (or #3).

hiddengem
09-11-2006, 10:33 AM
Thanks, HG. I suppose I'm a little confused, though. It seems like what you've described is essentially a hit and run...?

No, because the hitter doesn't have to swing if the pitch is a ball.

SoxSon
09-11-2006, 01:42 PM
No, because the hitter doesn't have to swing if the pitch is a ball.

Ok. In post #10, I must have glossed over the "if it's a strike" part. I just saw "must swing." All clear now, I think.