Hall Of Famers now & then Huge Difference

[mgervace]

Ok then, on Sports Time Ohio, I am watching the 1981 AllStar game played in Cleveland. It's Funny because I'm thinking 90% of the players who played in that game, if not 95%, are Hall of Famers.....Not Including Rose who was Playing first in the game representing the Phillies...

I bet you 50% OR MORE who Played in this Past 2006 AllStar Game in Pittsburgh, will not be Hall Of Famers.....

Why isn't the Powers to be in Baseball doing something about making the game great again....

thoughts

[538280]

It's funny you mention the 80s. That decade (along with the 70s), is often called a horrible era for truly great players, a conclusion that is completely devoid of logic IMO, and mostly from 1.People getting caught up in gaudy raw numbers, without adjusting them for run context (especially high BAs from the 20s/30s), and 2.Lack of league quality adjustments.

[KCGHOST]

I took a look st the 1981 rosters and there are 14 HoFers out of the 61 players. Counting Pete Rose that is about 25% HoFers. Another 5-6-7 could eventually make it. That gets you to 33% at best.

[RuthMayBond]

Ok then, on Sports Time Ohio, I am watching the 1981 AllStar game played in Cleveland. It's Funny because I'm thinking 90% of the players who played in that game, if not 95%, are Hall of Famers.....Not Including Rose who was Playing first in the game representing the Phillies...

I bet you 50% OR MORE who Played in this Past 2006 AllStar Game in Pittsburgh, will not be Hall Of Famers.....

Why isn't the Powers to be in Baseball doing something about making the game great again....

thoughtsMuch as I'd like to believe it was 95% (I was there), this says differently

http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B08090ALS1981.htm

[dgarza]

Even at the 1st ASG there were less than 60% HOFers.

[Mike D.]

Obviously, the original poster has had his premise blown out of the water, it does present a interesting way to look at the data. A year-by-year look at % of HOFers in the AS game might be interesting. Not sure what it'd show us, but it'd be interesting nonetheless.

[dgarza]

I guess looking at RetroSheet ONLY just gives us an idea of players who took the field that day, not all the players on the teams. I'm guessing that these percentages are going to be slightly lower.

[RuthMayBond]

I guess looking at RetroSheet ONLY just gives us an idea of players who took the field that day, not all the players on the teams. I'm guessing that these percentages are going to be slightly lower.Maybe this will help?

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/history/all_star.jsp

[Brian McKenna]

Why isn't the Powers to be in Baseball doing something about making the game great again....

thoughts

The game is great. Perhaps it your perspective that is not so great.

[2Chance]

Amen to that! :clapping

But the original post brings another question to mind. When was it decided that all teams must be represented at the All Star Game, regardless of the level of talent on the club?

[538280]

Obviously, the original poster has had his premise blown out of the water, it does present a interesting way to look at the data. A year-by-year look at % of HOFers in the AS game might be interesting. Not sure what it'd show us, but it'd be interesting nonetheless.

The book Politics of Glory shows percentage of league ABs by HOFers in every year. It was written in 1993 so many of the numbers are out of date, but it is in there. It essentially means nothing though. Basically what it shows is that there are MUCH more HOFers in the 20s/30s than any other era, for the simple reason that the voters have always been impressed by the high BAs of that era, without realizing the league average was just about .300.

[Brad Harris]

I thought this was such a good question, I did some digging. My preliminary research indicates that the "every team must be represented" rule has existed for a long time, perhaps all the way back to the game's inception.

For some reason I was under the impression that this was another of Bud Selig's innovations. But it seems to me, now, that it's only been in the past 10-15 years that this rule has become notorious because of (a) expansion from 26 to 30 teams; (b) the proliferation of middle relievers in the game; and (c) the increasing tendency of managers to get everyone on the roster into the game.

I'll continue to dig in order to come up with a more definitive answer.

[Brad Harris]

1981 American League All-Star Roster
Tony Armas
Len Barker
Buddy Bell
George Brett
Rick Burleson
Britt Burns
Rod Carew
Doug Corbett
Ron Davis
Bucky Dent
Bo Diaz
Dwight Evans
Rollie Fingers
Carlton Fisk
Ken Forsch
Rich Gossage
Reggie Jackson
Fred Lynn
Scott McGregor
Jack Morris
Eddie Murray
Mike Norris
Al Oliver
Tom Paciorek
Willie Randolph
Ted Simmons
Ken Singleton
Dave Stieb
Gorman Thomas
Frank White
Dave Winfield

1981 National League All-Star Roster
Dusty Baker
Bruce Benedict
Vida Blue
Bill Buckner
Steve Carlton
Gary Carter
Dave Concepcion
Andre Dawson
Mike Easler
George Foster
Phil Garner
Steve Garvey
Pedro Guerrero
Burt Hooton
Terry Kennedy
Bob Knepper
Davey Lopes
Bill Madlock
Dave Parker
Tim Raines
Pete Rose
Dick Ruthven
Nolan Ryan
Mike Schmidt
Tom Seaver
Ozzie Smith
Bruce Sutter
Manny Trillo
Fernando Valenzuela
Joel Youngblood

Out of 61 players in the above two lists, 14 have been inducted to the Hall of Fame. I'm not trying to debate the impression that there were a lot of Hall of Famers in the 1981 game, but that's just 23 percent of the rosters. And I'm not going to argue whether 23 percent is a lot or not, compared with other years, but it isn't anywhere close to 90 percent. Of course...there many have been times in the game where the vast majority of players on the field were future Hall of Famers and there are a number of other men on these rosters who had Hall of Fame-caliber careers. I was just curious if the actual number was anywhere close to 90 percent. It's not.

[leecemark]

Amen to that! :clapping

But the original post brings another question to mind. When was it decided that all teams must be represented at the All Star Game, regardless of the level of talent on the club?

--I think it was a rule from the beginning. With only 8 teams in the league it probably made sense and didn't result in anybody really deserving getting bumped. With 14-16 now it really dilutes the quality of the game.

[2Chance]

That sounds plausible. If Coop is still digging, I appreciate that, too. And yes, it did sound like one of Bud's innovations. :crazy

A few years ago, during one of the bad years in Minnesota, the guy who got the phone call asking him to the ASG thought it was a joke in poor taste. (Anybody remember who that was?)

[Fuzzy Bear]

Gossage, Morris, Simmons, and Raines all have fair to good chances to make the HOF.

Simmons was one-and-done, I know. He's the kind of guy that was SO good and his dismissal by the writers SO egregious that there will be a rule change in the future for him to get in, maybe by a Vets Committee. Raines isn't eligible yet.