1880's Browns Uniforms

[ringo-dog]

I am doing research on the 1880's St. Louis Browns uniforms. My biggest problem is confirming the colors used. Of course, all photographs were in black and white back then. The only color pictures I can find are drawn pictures. I have found these are often just fantasy! I have found one photo of Tom Dolan from 1887 and one team photo from 1884 that show dark uniforms, presumably used "out of town". I have seen several baseball card drawings showing a red shirt and dark blue pants. As these colors both show the same in black and white photos it is a problem confirming the red and blue. I have also seen drawn pictures copying photos that show red stripes on the hats and brown lettering on the shirts with red lacings. A picture of a "St Louis Browns Champion Soap" box I have seen seems to show the stripes as more brown. I am particularly dubious that the team would have used red and blue uniforms when they were called the Browns! The red and brown mix on the shirts and red caps makes a little more sense. Thanks for any help!

[Bill_McCurdy]

Ringo-Dog -

No problem on the request, but the inevitable clarification is again needed. The 19th century St. Louis Browns are not the franchise we celebrate here. Our Browns came into being as an American League club with the transfer of the Milwaukee Brewers to St. Louis as the new Browns in 1902.

The St. Louis Browns you are asking about are actually the 19th century National League version of the St. Louis Cardinals. The NL Cardinals last played as the St. Louis Browns in 1897 before laying out of baseball in 1898. When the NL St. Louis club returned in 1899, they called themselves the Perfectos, but that short-lived nickname was changed to the Cardinals in 1900 in favor of their cardinal-colored uniform trimming and socks. They have been the St. Louis Cardinals ever since. The birds on the bat logo came later, but the truth is the same. The present day NL Cardinals are still the direct descendants of the club you are asking about in your uniform inquiry.

Why did the new 1902 St. Louis AL club take on the old Browns nickname? Most today agree that the adoption of the NL club's old moniker was pretty much an in-your-face market share challenge by the new St. Louis AL club to the established St. Louis NL club. It worked for a whiile, but that's a whole other story.

Oh well. You're still in good position to get some answers to your questions. Many of the folks around here are also Cardinal fans.

[ringo-dog]

Thanks Bill for your quick reply. I do realize that the two Browns are different. I plan on posting something with the Cardinals and the 1880's sections. I was hoping that I might get noticed a little quicker here! The Cardinals site is so crowded and this one is a little more open. (Like the Browns and Cardinals games were!) It is always good to hear from another Browns (2) fan!

[Brownieand45sfan]

That is a great collection of jpg's!

Re: the last one, the Curt Welch card from 1887.

Not sure if the timing matches up, but since the color of Welch's uniform on that card looks like a half-brown/half-red, maybe that was the uniform that gave rise to the remark that supposedly gave birth to the name: "Oh, what a lovely shade of Cardinal". Although most record books don't apply the name Cardinals to the team until the year 1900, and they seem to have definitely been known as the Perfectos in 1898, it seems plausible that the name Cardinals could have been used intermittently for a decade or more before and that the official switch to the name Cardinals was just a matter of "Oh well, our uniforms have been more cardinal than brown for years, we might as well make it official". Nicknames are just that, nicknames. (E.g., people were using different nicknames for the Phillies, Indians, Senators and Braves as late as the 1940's). The 19th-century St. Louis ballclubs were probably known as the "St. Louis Nationals", "St. Louis Americans" or "St. Louis Unions" as much as anything else.

[ringo-dog]

I have found a picture of Comiskey marked as 1889 that shows all the trim in brown. I also found an account that mentioned that only the stockings were changed from brown to red when the new owners took over in 1898. I wonder if this is all they did! Perhaps they used a mix of red and brown trim in various configurations down through the years. It could be argued that for showmanship there would be a reason to use some red along with the brown on the uniforms. I believe that the Cleveland Spiders used red trimmed uniforms also. It would be a small step to convert the St. Louis uniforms. There is another picture I have of the 1888 team showing white hats, but "dress jackets" with the same stripes as the hats of earlier years. If those are red stripes. . . WOW! There is another showing the 1887 team wearing bow ties. Brown or red? Another 1887 card picture shows red checked pinstripes and brown trim.

[Brownieand45sfan]

http://tinyurl.com/wun47

[ringo-dog]

Thanks for the link. Ebay is one of my favorite "research tools", though so much of the stuff on there can be considered "suspect". One of these days I am going to get over to the Missouri State Archives for a day and see what I can dig up. All the info so far says that they used the red trim with brown letters, but that is based mostly on drawn copies of black and white photographs.

[The Kid]

Red striped hat, whitesh jersey, blue pants, orange socks. How do I know? I have a Browns uniform from 1887.

[Brownieand45sfan]

whoah! Where did you get it?
Red striped hat, whitesh jersey, blue pants, orange socks. How do I know? I have a Browns uniform from 1887.

[The Kid]

My Great Granpdpa bought it in 1887, then handed it down to my grandpa, and my grandpa handed it down to my dad, who gave it to me.

[Brownieand45sfan]

very cool indeed
My Great Granpdpa bought it in 1887, then handed it down to my grandpa, and my grandpa handed it down to my dad, who gave it to me.

[ringo-dog]

Thanks for the input about your old uniform! What a great artifact and family piece! I wondered if the blue pants may be from 1886 or a seperate uniform. I have not found any 1886 pictures of the full uniform, just from the chest up so the pants could be any color. All the 1887 pictures I have found seem to have matching pants and shirts, one dark version(out-of-town?) and one light(home?). The 1885-6 hats had vertical stripes and the 1887 and later had horizontal ones. Again, Thanks for the help!

[drtybUsch025]

How much would that uniform be worth now?

[The Kid]

I'd have to say about $2000 at least, its in good condition.