why is lefty gomez in the hof??

[Dodgerfan66]

why is he in??

he did not win 200 games.... o i think i know why...HE WAS AYANKEE!!!!!!!!!!!!:grouchy :grouchy :grouchy

[STLCards2]

Pluses: Gomez was the best or second best pitcher in the AL 4 times. He won 2 pitching triple crowns, and has a gawdy winning %, and very high ERA+ (though with the fewer IP) 6-0 record in WS.

Minuses: Gomez had a relatively short career, pitching fewer than 3,000 innings, and benefited from playing in front of a stacked Yankeees team.

Conclusion: Wheras nobody should get Lefty Gomez confused with Lefty Grove, I think he is a respectable member of Cooperstown. I have him ranked 54th out of 74 pitchers (including actives) that I feel are HOF material. He is similar in the rankings to Lemon, Wynn, and Bunning, just below Mussina, Smoltz, and Drysdale, and just ahead of Faber, Dean, and Ruffing.

By the way: if the Yankee bias is so strong, then why aren't Mattingly, Munson, Guidry, etc. in Cooperstown? bernie williams won't make it either. None of them deserve it, but if every decent Yankee made it, they would all be in. Your hatred for the Yankees is realy hurting your ability to make objective observations.

[RuthMayBond]

why is he in??

he did not win 200 games....You're right, time to remove Koufax

[Dodgerfan66]

gomez had a 3.34 era koufax had a 2.76

not close...also remember that gomez had an advantage against rh hitters in ys.....

[Brownie31]

Why is Lefty Gomez in the HOF? For the same reason
Cobb, Ruth, Mays, Matthewson, etc are in. He was
voted in.

Brownie31

[Biggtone23]

you cant have it both ways with Koufax. If he kept playing he would have gotten more wins but his ERA would have gone up also.

[RuthMayBond]

gomez had a 3.34 era koufax had a 2.76

not close...also remember that gomez had an advantage against rh hitters in ys.....Koufax had an advantage against ALL hitters in Dodger Stadium, and let's completely ignore the offense levels at the time

[leecemark]

why is he in??

he did not win 200 games.... o i think i know why...HE WAS AYANKEE!!!!!!!!!!!!:grouchy :grouchy :grouchy

--He didn't win 200 - but he did win more than Koufax:lookitup .

[Dodgerfan66]

i see your all avoiding the question as to why he belongs. comparing koufax to gomez is blasphemy! how dare you tarnish sandy's name??? anyway why is gomez a hof???




you see its YANKEE BIAS!!!!

[Brownie31]

i see your all avoiding the question as to why he belongs. comparing koufax to gomez is blasphemy! how dare you tarnish sandy's name??? anyway why is gomez a hof???




you see its YANKEE BIAS!!!!

Blasphemy? How dare you tarnish? :crazy

Brownie31

[cbenson5]

anyway why is gomez a hof???

Brownie31 gave you the answer, because he got the nescessary number of votes.

[Ytown Tribe fan]

The Veteran's committee selected him in 1972, about 30 years after he retired.

Oddly, Detroit's Tommy Bridges was not selected. They were of very nearly identical quality, but Gomez played for the better team. Bridges had more wins, and more losses.

Gomez doesn't hurt the HoF one bit. His career ERA+ of 125 is better than lots of pitchers', including Blyleven, Tiant, Dazzy Vance, Bob Feller, Marichal, Drysdale. and his W-L percentage is 28th best ever, in a somewhat shortened career.

There's worse pitchers in the HoF and there's better. He fits right in.

[wamby]

The fact that Lefty Gomez was 6-0, out of seven starts, in the World Series probably didn't diminish his chances either.

[Fuzzy Bear]

The Veteran's committee selected him in 1972, about 30 years after he retired.

Oddly, Detroit's Tommy Bridges was not selected. They were of very nearly identical quality, but Gomez played for the better team. Bridges had more wins, and more losses.

Gomez doesn't hurt the HoF one bit. His career ERA+ of 125 is better than lots of pitchers', including Blyleven, Tiant, Dazzy Vance, Bob Feller, Marichal, Drysdale. and his W-L percentage is 28th best ever, in a somewhat shortened career.

There's worse pitchers in the HoF and there's better. He fits right in.

I more or less agree with this. I do think, however, that if Gomez weren't a Yankee, he wouldn't have gotten in. He's a case of getting into the HOF because he was famous.

I liked Lefty, and he's an OK HOFer, but there is only one HOFer in his 10 best comps (although I think Lefty was better than his comps). He had three (3) BIG, BIG seasons, and that's a factor in selecting pitchers, and a fourth 20-win season, so he's got some chrome and leather. He was an All-Star 7 years in a row, and that indicates that he was well thought of. Still, if Tommy Bridges won 6 more games, we might be talking about why he wasn't in, rather than why Gomez is.

[Mariano_Rivera]

Two points. Wins are a garbage stat and I very rarely mention them in any conversation so don`t hold that against Gomez. He was a pretty good HoFer. I haven`t looked to deeply into his stats though.

And my second point is that their isn`t as much Yankees bias around here asDodger bias is spouting from you. You remind me of a certain Padres fan who is at this forum. He constantly insists that Trevor Hoffman is a greater closer than Mariano Rivera even though every stat in existence show Mo to be the superior closer EXCEPT Saves/Save% which he/she uses as an argument. You are like that with Sandy Koufax, you insist longevity is the most important factor in evaluating a player and believe Lefty Gomez and several other players that are generally rated as all-time great players should not be HoFer's for this reason. Yet you call Sandy Koufax an exception to this rule and call him one of the greatest pitchers in history (I assume I can`t quote you). You can`t both call out people for Yankees bias and display Dodgers bias simulataneously. You can`t both call Sandy Koufax with very little longevity a first ballot HoFer and an all time great pitcher and say Lefty Gomez is undeserving of a plaque because of his longevity. You have tomake a choice sometime or another. No insult intended but some of your posts are a little hypocriticasl :D

[mtortolero]

Gomez and Koufax had only ten seasons with more than 100 innnings pitched in each one in their carrers.
If you list the ERA+ from the best to the worst for both , their marks are no so distant and you must consider that Gomez was in a high hitting ambient meanwhile Koufax pitched in a depresed era for hitters. I will include the best ten seasons in ERA+ by bridges only for comparison.

Koufax Gomez Bridges
190 191 147
187 174 144
161 149 142
160 136 140
143 127 140
124 127 140
107 122 137
104 106 134
102 105 120
.92 .97 119

Koufax has better peak although Gomez was not far from him.
Bridges was a great pitcher which record would be better that actually is, specially if you consider those 14-12 but 140 ERA+ repeated 1932 and 1933.

[yest]

beacuse I'm starting to get a little sick :evil of these and pro Dodger and anti yankee threads (I don't like the normal ones :mad: (Matinglly's overated or would baseball be better with out the Yankees) much less these)

Dodgerfan66 otherwise known as :gt
why is Pee Wee Reece in the hall of fame he wasn't even better then Joe Dimmagio :noidea

by the way in theWorld Series where the Yankees played the dodgers it's
Yankees 8 Dodgers 3 :laugh

[RuthMayBond]

Gomez and Koufax pitched each one only ten seasons with more than 100 innnings in their carrers.
If you list the ERA+ from the best to the worst for both pitchers, their marks are no so distant and you must consider that Gomez was in a high hitting ambient meanwhile Koufax pitched in a depresed era for hitters. I will include the best ten seasons in ERA+ by bridges only for comparison.

Koufax Gomez Bridges
190 191 147
187 174 144
161 149 142
160 136 140
143 127 140
124 127 140
107 122 137
104 106 134
102 105 120
.92 .97 119

Koufax has better peak although Gomez was not far from him.
Bridges was a great pitcher which record would be better that actually is, specially if you consider those 14-12 but 140 ERA+ repeated 1932 and 1933.I actually have Bridges career better than Gomez. I'd put Gomez in my Hall but real near the bottom

[KCGHOST]

There has never been a demonstrated Yankee bias to HoF selection. There are undeserving Yanks in the HoF, but other teams have as many or more.

Grove had a very short career and is does not have the most compelling case for the HoF, but try this. From 1931 to 1938 Gomez amongst pitchers with 1500 IP's or more:

1) Ranked 1st in K's
2) Ranked 3rd in wins (trailing only Hubbell and Grove)
3) Ranked 4th in ERA (Trailing only Hubbell, Dean, Grove).

Add to this is his team won a bunch of WS championships and he was important to their success.

[Myankee4life]

Being the best pitcher on the greatest teams of all-time helped. His undefeated WS record and I think he was picked to start the all-star game 3 times and won all 3. He won 2 pitching triple crowns and his 3.34 era was among the best of his time. He had a great winning percenatge plus he was witty.

SOLID HOF'mer.

[bama50]

He had good numbers, but we don't need to allow above average players in the Hall of Fame, but only great players.

[Myankee4life]

He had good numbers, but we don't need to allow above average players in the Hall of Fame, but only great players.

How was he just above average, when in his time he was the best pitcher not named Lefty Grove......

Remember he played when the league average was near .300, making it harder to pitch and keep a sub-4.00 era. It also affected the number of K's and hits. Im not saying Gomez is a top-tier HOF'mer, but him being just above average is an understatement. He was very good bordering on great IMO.

[Dodgerfan66]

gomez hof monitor is 34.0 the avereage hof is 50.0

also look at his most similar players

Allie Reynolds (924)
Dave McNally (912)
Ron Guidry (905)
Mike Cuellar (894)
Jimmy Key (894)
Dwight Gooden (892)
Virgil Trucks (890)
Tommy Bridges (888)
Bob Lemon (887) *
Lon Warneke (883)

not very hof like....wouldn't you say??

[Dodgerfan66]

also newcombe was a much better pitcher and he's not in the hall...

[RuthMayBond]

gomez hof monitor is 34.0 the avereage hof is 50.0

also look at his most similar players

Allie Reynolds (924)
Dave McNally (912)
Ron Guidry (905)
Mike Cuellar (894)
Jimmy Key (894)
Dwight Gooden (892)
Virgil Trucks (890)
Tommy Bridges (888)
Bob Lemon (887) *
Lon Warneke (883)

not very hof like....wouldn't you say??Dodgerfan66, if similarity scores mean so much (and they don't necessarily), you realize who Koufax's eighth most similar pitcher is :laugh :laugh :laugh

[RuthMayBond]

also newcombe was a much better pitcher and he's not in the hall...You mean, EVERY Dodger pitcher is MUCH better than EVERY NON-Dodger pitcher, don't you?

[Brownie31]

also newcombe was a much better pitcher and he's not in the hall...

Which one was better when it was World Series time?;)

Brownie31

[Gee Walker]

also newcombe was a much better pitcher and he's not in the hall...


And Newcombe was just awesome in the World Series... you just have to love that 1-2 record with an 8.59 ERA and an average start length of just over 4 innings - if you're a Yankee fan.

[wamby]

Newcombe was 0-4 in the World Series. He pitched well enough to win in game one of the 1949 Series, but he pitched poorly in the rest of his World Series starts, especially in 1956.

[Dodgerfan66]

seems you can only attack newcombe's post season performance...bottom line is he was better than lefty gomez..

[wamby]

seems you can only attack newcombe's post season performance...bottom line is he was better than lefty gomez..

Newcombe's post-season performance is a huge part of his legacy.If he would have been able to win one Series game in 1956, the Dodgers would have repeated as champs.

[Dodgerfan66]

huh??


how the hell are koufax and gomez similar????

thats a skewed stat!

also Pedro Martinez (878)


pretty good name

[Dodgerfan66]

Newcombe's post-season performance is a huge part of his legacy.If he would have been able to win one Series game in 1956, the Dodgers would have repeated as champs.


ok barring post season

better pitcher than Gomez!!

nuff said

anyone think otherwise...well youd be wrong

[wamby]

ok barring post season

better pitcher than Gomez!!

nuff said

anyone think otherwise...well youd be wrong

I think player comparisons are dumb. That said, looking at their records, I would take Gomez.

[Dodgerfan66]

I think player comparisons are dumb. That said, looking at their records, I would take Gomez.

you're lost

tell me when gomez ever won 27 games!

[wamby]

you're lost

tell me when gomez ever won 27 games!

And then lost two big ones in the World Series?

[Dodgerfan66]

And then lost two big ones in the World Series?



without newcombe the dodgers wouldn't have won the pennant..

also....gomez wsn't hot stuff in the ws either posting an almost 3 era...which is good but not koufax-esque

[STLCards2]

ok barring post season

better pitcher than Gomez!!

nuff said

anyone think otherwise...well youd be wrong


Let me guess...

Orel Hershiser was better than Whitey Ford and Fernando Valenzuala was better than Herb Pennock, right?

[Dodgerfan66]

Let me guess...

Orel Hershiser was better than Whitey Ford and Fernando Valenzuala was better than Herb Pennock, right?


Why not?


valenzuela> pennock

but i admit ford better than hershiser

[Brownie31]

you're lost

tell me when gomez ever won 27 games!

He was close in 1934 going 26-5.

Brownie31

[Dodgerfan66]

He was close in 1934 going 26-5.

Brownie31


close is not good enough..

[EvanAparra]

This thread has become a Gomez vs. Koufax discussion, and i dont think should really be up for debate. I dont see how anyone can think that Gomez is as good or better than Koufax. Its just amazing.

[Dodgerfan66]

This thread has become a Gomez vs. Koufax discussion, and i dont think should really be up for debate. I dont see how anyone can think that Gomez is as good or better than Koufax. Its just amazing.

its incredible.

[RuthMayBond]

huh??


how the hell are koufax and gomez similar????

thats a skewed stat!

also Pedro Martinez (878)


pretty good nameSo is it skewed or not?
Answer: only when it suits you

[Dodgerfan66]

So is it skewed or not?
Answer: only when it suits you

only when it makes sense.

[Imapotato]

The fact that Lefty Gomez was 6-0, out of seven starts, in the World Series probably didn't diminish his chances either.


or the fact that next to Yogi Berra, he is the most quotable Baseball man

I recall a story that Joe D said he would make everyone forget Speaker in his rookie year...so in his 3rd game he drops a ball when Gomez was pitching allowing 2 runs to score

Later that night Gomez says in front of the guys while they were out eating dinner

"Joe, if you keep making catches like that, you'll make people forget Lefty Gomez, not Tris Speaker"

or when Dickey asked him what he wanted to throw Jimmie Foxx

"I don't wanna throw him nuttin', maybe he will just get tired of waiting and leave"

and of course when asked if he threw a splitter he said
"Not intentionally...but I sweat easy"

[STLCards2]

This thread has become a Gomez vs. Koufax discussion, and i dont think should really be up for debate. I dont see how anyone can think that Gomez is as good or better than Koufax. Its just amazing.


NOBODY has made the claim that Gomez was better than Koufax. NOBODY.

However, if you look at how the two compare in terms of IP, W%, ERA+ and WS success there is no way somebody can make the claim that Koufax is the best ever but Gomez doesn't even sniff the Hall of Fame. Their number are not far enough apart to make that claim. If you dock Koufax for a lack of IP and longevity, and have him well out of top 15-20 pitchers ever, than a logical case can be made for Gomez not deserving the HOF. However if Koufax can be top 5 with so few IP and wins, etc, than Gomez looks a lot better too. In fact, if Gomez had all of his best seasons clustered at the end of his career like Koufax did, Gomez would look even better in comparison. Again, saying Gomez is deserving of Cooperstown does not imply that he was better than Koufax.

[EvanAparra]

Thank you for the bold words, i couldnt have gotten what you were saying without them... I went through the posts, and it looked a lot like people were comparing the two, saying they were very similar, while i think Koufax was better. I believe Koufax was one of the best ever, but i also believe that Gomez deserves the HOF. I wasnt making the claim that Gomez wasnt deserving of the HOF.

[wamby]

"Joe, if you keep making catches like that, you'll make people forget Lefty Gomez, not Tris Speaker"

"

That's one of my favorite quotes.

[Brownie31]

close is not good enough..

Having a horrid post season record versus 6-0 is
not good enough by a damned long shot!

Brownie31

[Erik Bedard]

Well, this is more reasonable than the DiMaggio thread, I'll give you that.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Newcombe's post-season performance is a huge part of his legacy.If he would have been able to win one Series game in 1956, the Dodgers would have repeated as champs.

Mike Garcia has a better claim to the HOF than Newcombe.

[Myankee4life]

Other favorite Gomez quotes:

"I'm throwing as hard as I ever did, but the ball is just not getting there as fast."

[DiMag4Life]

Just for future reference, if he makes another thread like this, don't reply, he's trying to mess with you. He even made a thread saying that DiMaggio should not be in the hall of fame.

Then Gomez, who was definently deserving.