Bullpen improvements?

[Sean Casey]

Why haven't there been any? It's quite obvious that Seanez/Tavarez/Hansen/Delcarmen aren't going to get the Red Sox in the playoffs, and even Timlin has been getting roughed up lately. So, why hasn't Theo done anything about it? It seems like every other day the Reds add a new arm to their pen, and they just traded with the Jays for Scott Schoenweis.

Now, many of the pitchers that the Reds have added aren't spectacular, but it would seem to me that adding pretty much anyone would be better than staying with relievers who can't get the job done.

Any thoughts on why Theo hasn't done anything that even resembles a bullpen improvement?

[redoctober]

Why haven't there been any? It's quite obvious that Seanez/Tavarez/Hansen/Delcarmen aren't going to get the Red Sox in the playoffs, and even Timlin has been getting roughed up lately. So, why hasn't Theo done anything about it? It seems like every other day the Reds add a new arm to their pen, and they just traded with the Jays for Scott Schoenweis.

Now, many of the pitchers that the Reds have added aren't spectacular, but it would seem to me that adding pretty much anyone would be better than staying with relievers who can't get the job done.

Any thoughts on why Theo hasn't done anything that even resembles a bullpen improvement?

They just recalled Craig Breslow from Pawtucket the other day and he did extremely well in his previous stint with Boston so we'll see how he does this time around. And the reason why Theo is not adding anything is because they have enough stopgaps already, plus the rosters will be expanding in about 2 weeks so you'll see the bullpen getting some much needed depth for the rest of the season. Also, please take into consideration that theres a realistic chance of the Red Sox not making the postseason this year.

[Sean Casey]

My point is that the Red Sox aren't doing well with what they have in the pen right now, so i see no reason why Theo shouldn't trade a minor-leaguer or two (as the Reds have been doing) for a middle reliever. And while Breslow hasn't allowed a run in 3.1 innings this year, I would much rather see the Red Sox get some veteran middle-relievers than rely on AAA call-ups.

[efin98]

Two words for the bullpen: OVER WORKED.

In the last few weeks that they have had troubles the team lost several guys to injuries forcing the young bullpen to work much harder than they really should be working.

Add to that the fact that Timlin finally has come down from his lofty perch and is showing his age. Those together are a classic case for fatigue and struggles.

Thankfully they got a break with Wells but even his decent pitching can't make up for the need to use the bullpen for three innings+.


I am optimistic about the rookies, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say that they will bounce back when they get Wakefield back in about two weeks and when they get their leader back in Varitek late in September.


It's way to early to be talking about the playoff so don't assume just because they are struggling now that they can't sort out their troubles and pull out a string of wins to edge out the competition. There's still six weeks of the season left and they are in two heated races despite their struggles. It ain't over yet.

[EvanAparra]

Well the Reds are going to have any farm system the way their throwing away their minor leaguers this year. All these small trades are going to help them now, but just wait for Ryan Wagner to bust out..

[Sean Casey]

<I>Well the Reds are going to have any farm system the way their throwing away their minor leaguers this year. All these small trades are going to help them now, but just wait for Ryan Wagner to bust out..</I>

I don't know...it doesn't seem like they've given much up. They got Cormier from the Phillies for Justin Germano, who, although he will likely become a full-time MLB player in the future, is hardly a top prospect.

[Evangelion]

Have you ever consider that there's not much relief pitchers out there on the market? I'm refer to relief pitchers on the market that would be an improvement over the current relief pitchers we have, if you look, there's not.

Not sure why people are bashing Theo for not making a move at the deadline. Look at what's out there? There's nothing that great. Unless you want to trade Lester for the likes of Ray King of the Rockies?

[Sean Casey]

Granted, there isn't much on the market in terms of relief pitching, but the Reds did get Guardado, Schoenweis, and Cormier, among others, which shows that they were in fact available before the trading deadline. Now, these pitchers aren't great by any means, but with the bullpen looking like it is now, I don't see the harm in trying something different.

[Jager]

No reason to try something different, when the pitchers we had were at least as good as those. I agree that we needed to make some move to show that Theo tried to help the team, but the problem he ran into was EVERY team Theo talked to wanted Lester, Hansen, Delcarmen, or Papelbon. Most offered crazy trades too. I heard one the Philly proposed Lester, Hansen, and another AAA guy for Lieber. When teams are expecting to take all you young pitching prospects there isn't much you can do. If it were something like Lester, Hansen, a AAA guy for Dontrelle Willis, that's something you think about, but nothing good was available, and everybody that was available, the teams felt like they could stick it to the Red Sox because they were desperate. Theo tried, but he couldn't even give equal talent, and get the trades that other teams got. For whatever reason the Yankees got Abreu, and Lidle for 4 crappy minor leaguers. The Sox tried for Abreu, and the reports were that they wanted Lester or Hansen plus a few minor leaguers or they wouldn't do it with the Sox. I think because the Red Sox have so much good pitching prospects coming up with Papelbon 25, Hansen 22, Lester 22, Delcarmen 25, Beckett's not a prospect, but still only 25, Van Buren 25, Breslow 24 (I think), Martinez (AAA) 24, Bowden 19, Buckholz 19, Bryce Cox 22, and many many more, teams think that since we have so much pitching coming up we will give some of it away for crappy players. Good for Theo that he stuck to his guns, but we're paying the price now, because we just aren't good enough in the pitching department right now. In a couple years though I think we'll be unstoppable.

Let's start a "Let's Sign Zito" petition and send it to the Red Sox.

[PhilWings24]

No reason to try something different, when the pitchers we had were at least as good as those. I agree that we needed to make some move to show that Theo tried to help the team, but the problem he ran into was EVERY team Theo talked to wanted Lester, Hansen, Delcarmen, or Papelbon. Most offered crazy trades too. I heard one the Philly proposed Lester, Hansen, and another AAA guy for Lieber. When teams are expecting to take all you young pitching prospects there isn't much you can do. If it were something like Lester, Hansen, a AAA guy for Dontrelle Willis, that's something you think about, but nothing good was available, and everybody that was available, the teams felt like they could stick it to the Red Sox because they were desperate. Theo tried, but he couldn't even give equal talent, and get the trades that other teams got. For whatever reason the Yankees got Abreu, and Lidle for 4 crappy minor leaguers. The Sox tried for Abreu, and the reports were that they wanted Lester or Hansen plus a few minor leaguers or they wouldn't do it with the Sox. I think because the Red Sox have so much good pitching prospects coming up with Papelbon 25, Hansen 22, Lester 22, Delcarmen 25, Beckett's not a prospect, but still only 25, Van Buren 25, Breslow 24 (I think), Martinez (AAA) 24, Bowden 19, Buckholz 19, Bryce Cox 22, and many many more, teams think that since we have so much pitching coming up we will give some of it away for crappy players. Good for Theo that he stuck to his guns, but we're paying the price now, because we just aren't good enough in the pitching department right now. In a couple years though I think we'll be unstoppable.

Let's start a "Let's Sign Zito" petition and send it to the Red Sox.

i completely agree with you, but i'd be awfully dissapointed (and surprised, i'd bet dollars to donuts he's better than this) if theo relies solely on internal development. the sox do need to sign a zito and a dependable reliever (a new old mike timlin would be perfect. as in a mike timlin of 2003-2005) to be title favorites again, and the chances the minor leagues turn those guys out, while its possible, aren't very good.

and yes, i'm all for anything that increases the sox chances at zito.