Little League Controversy

[Elvis]

The reported story about the boy recovering from cancer has brought some very passionate views and opinions about youth baseball. Therefore, I would like to run a poll asking what should be the main objectives of youth league baseball. As a barometer, we'll use 9 and 10-year old leagues.

[sturg1dj]

I was a good little leaguer and an average high school player

little league was a blast because you went and had fun with your friends

high school was a chore, because winning was everthing

I was totally turned off from baseball after high school for a couple of years until I played some IM softball in college and realized how fun it was again.

[Astro]

Just the way the poll is writin is biased.... the Just win Baby! after the 2nd choice is not needed and conveys a negative viewpoint toward choosing it

[sturg1dj]

well there shouldn't even be a debate, but there is

in this day and age with parents as psycho as they are when they are at their kids games, more pressure is on the kids to play great and win. Some say stop coddling the kids and expose them to real life....but geez in little league? who cares who wins a little league game?

its one thing if a person's livelyhood is on the line, which can be the case for coaches at schools, but in little league?

[Hammerin Hank]

Just the way the poll is writin is biased.... the Just win Baby! after the 2nd choice is not needed and conveys a negative viewpoint toward choosing it

He's right, you know. Even if you didn't make a biased poll, the first choice would've received the most votes anyway so why'd you have to go and do that?

[Wasp]

I think that through learning fundamentals, sportsmanship, and competing, kids learn that life isn't always perfect. Obviously, winning should be important to a kid, but their drive towards winning should not cause negative effects. Otherwise, their parent/mentor should tell them to have more fun and relax.

[Elvis]

He's right, you know. Even if you didn't make a biased poll, the first choice would've received the most votes anyway so why'd you have to go and do that?

I PM'd Mattingly to change option 2 to:

To teach the importance of winning and competition

:)

[Astro]

Its also very vague.... this was talking about the championship game.... so it was obviously competitive

[Sultan_1895-1948]

I'd go with 1 and 2.

Actually all three, with percentage of importance going 65/30/5 respectively.

[wamby]

The way the poll the titled, I would say none of the above. I think Youth Baseaball is all about the parents.

[Outta Here]

I think it should be option 1, but I agree somewhat with Wamby ^ :ughh

[VTSoxFan]

I didn't vote, because there isn't an option for "have fun".

I sure am glad I grew up where and when I did -- no organized sports, just a village full of kids with a spread in ages of about 12 years, and no adults telling us how, when, where and what to play and who to play with. I'm also glad I had the parents I did, whose philosophy about childhood was "have fun, and learn stuff along the way -- but mainly have fun."

[sturg1dj]

the kid is recovering from cancer, right?

so why the hell are his parents so bent out of shape about a stupid baseball game?


You know a lot of people who go through cancer gain perspective, but it sounds like they haven't.

For most parents if their kid beats cancer then everything else seems a little less important

[Brian McKenna]

I coach Little League (9-10 this past year) and my emphasis is just to teach the kids the game and make them better. The biggest challenge is to keep them focused and thinking ahead in the game and to get them to practice at home between games to build arm strength and improve their catching and hitting abilities.

I try to keep the kids excited during the game and into the action. I am as well but at the end of the day a victory or loss is the same. The kids don't want the added pressure of a do or die win. That's the b.s. parents carry with them, as well as, some coaches. At that point it's not about the kids, it's about the adults which is horse****.

To illustrate a riduculous approach to the game. We had four teams so at draft day we selected our players. Each team had 12 kids but one fell short since there were only 47 kids to draw from. It was agreed and assumed I thought that the one team that had 11 kids (which wasn't mine btw) was to get the next player that signed up. Come to find out that the commissioner of the league (which was one of the managers of a 12-kid team) scarfed up the next kid that signed up. So we now had teams with 13-12-12-11 kids. I was one of the 12s.

Turns out that last kid is the tallest in the league and perhaps the biggest bat. The commish's taem ended up winning the league and whenever we played the 11-kid team he was always short of players, usually fielding only 9 (as we field 10). I didn't personally know the commissioner but who would have guessed that he and his coaches were the only staff that constantly berated their players and turned the game, from my point of view, into something it didn't need to be for 9-10 year olds.

[flash143817]

the kid is recovering from cancer, right?

so why the hell are his parents so bent out of shape about a stupid baseball game?


You know a lot of people who go through cancer gain perspective, but it sounds like they haven't.

For most parents if their kid beats cancer then everything else seems a little less important

It is required that all parents live vicariously through their kids' sports achievements.

[ESPNFan]

It is required that all parents live vicariously through their kids' sports achievements.

Yes that's exactly what Romney's parents were doing. :noidea

[Big_Mac]

my dad coaches my little brother's team up here in canada, same age group as this happened. my dad and several coaches here would never do something like that, up here, that age group is all about developing and having fun here. however, i do see where this could happen.

when our teams go play in provincals or tournaments, other teams bring water to their pitchers on the mound to delay the game so they can win by time issues. its madding to see some stuff these guys do to win.

a similar thing happened last year to my bro's team in provincals. runners on 1st and 3rd with not our best hitter up but a decent one up and on full count he got walked (wasnt intentional by all means). then our weakest hitter came to bat with bases loaded, 2 out and down one and she started crying because she knew she was going to strikeout (hadnt hit all year). she missed the first two and then got a piece of the next one but it went right to first and they lost the game. winning is not everything, the little girl wasn't upset because she hit the ball and the coaches, who were of course dissapointed they didnt win because baseball is a competitive sport at ANY level, encouraged the girl and made her feel good. that's the way it ought to be in my opinion.

this right here just crossed the line. if it was the championship between players aged 14-15 (my level), that would be understood. the intentional walk comes out in some of our league games even but everyone understands because at that level, its part of the game and they most likely would have done the same thing. but for 9-10 year olds who are just learning the values of the game, this shouldn't have happened.

i chose the first option, that is when the kids are first learning the great game of baseball. if they want to keep playing later on, thats when the can learn the competition part of it.

[baseball junkie]

I picked "To teach fundamentals, sportsmanship, fair play, and teamwork." I'd also add to that, to have fun!

Geez, what are you people thinking who voted for the to teach your kids the reality of life? I suppose you have them glued to CNN of FoxNews everyday watching people get blown up in Palestine and Lebanon to too see how cruel and unfair life is -- important life lessons for 10 year olds to learn, apparently.

Weirdos!

[Honus Wagner]

definitely #3
it drives home at an early age, that fat kids are losers and that poor kids, who can only afford plastic gloves are worthless, except of course if they can run, hit or pitch - then equipment will be provided

[baseball junkie]

You have a sick sense of humor. I respect that.

[wamby]

In my personal experience, it was the last one. I played little league from about the age of seven until I was around thirteen. I don't remember ever having a coach that taught us any fundamntals or really anything about the game. I did have several coaches that treated me like a loser because I was small and didn't play very well.

By the time I was twelve, I was playing better and even got picked as an Al Star in my last year, but by then I said screw it and played nothing but sandlot ball, which in my opinion was a lot more fun than playing organized ball.

In my opinion the single most important thing that a kid can get from sports is learning how to deal with failure. In my case, I practiced a lot and eventually became a pretty good player.

[Ubiquitous]

Someone once did a study on polls. What they found is that most people answer the way they are supposed to answer. They give the ideal answers, not the answers they actually tend to follow themselves. Not saying this is happening here but I would be surprised if the vast majority of people didn't pick the first option. Nowadays the more accurate pollsters will not ask you outright what it is they want to know from you when dealing with sensitive topics (not talking about Coke vs Pepsi). They will ask a series of questions designed so that they hopefully get a more realistic answer from you, instead of the utopian answer.

If you want to find out if a person has a problem with alcohol you don't come out and ask them, "Do you have a problem with alcohol". The vast majority will say no. You ask them about their lifestyle, how many drinks they have in a week, when they drink, how they drink, so on and so on.

[sturg1dj]

In my personal experience, it was the last one. I played little league from about the age of seven until I was around thirteen. I don't remember ever having a coach that taught us any fundamntals or really anything about the game. I did have several coaches that treated me like a loser because I was small and didn't play very well.

By the time I was twelve, I was playing better and even got picked as an Al Star in my last year, but by then I said screw it and played nothing but sandlot ball, which in my opinion was a lot more fun than playing organized ball.

In my opinion the single most important thing that a kid can get from sports is learning how to deal with failure. In my case, I practiced a lot and eventually became a pretty good player.


you make a great point, and really for us non baseball stars the pickup games were always the best. IMO baseball is no longer fun when all you think anout is winning. So if I ever coach little league it will be about teaching and fun.

[wamby]

you make a great point, and really for us non baseball stars the pickup games were always the best. IMO baseball is no longer fun when all you think anout is winning. So if I ever coach little league it will be about teaching and fun.

I helped coach a team one year of 9-10 year olds. We basically wanted to teach some fundamentals and let the kids have fun. Neither the kids nor the parents (the parents who showed up then were nearly all mothers) were interested in this approach. All they cared about was winning.

[Ursa Major]

bkmckenna said: It was agreed and assumed I thought that the one team that had 11 kids (which wasn't mine btw) was to get the next player that signed up. Come to find out that the commissioner of the league (which was one of the managers of a 12-kid team) scarfed up the next kid that signed up.bk, you raise by implication two of the issues that really ties my shorts in a knot about youth leagues. First, the old "gee the kid signed up late so let's just put him on a team" routine, and he turns out to be a stud. It kinds of turn the idea of a draft on its ear, no? And why didn't the kid sign up on time?

Second, the idea of having someone who manages (or is the parent of a player on) a team serving as commissioner making decisions for the individual leagues is an invitation to self-interested decisions. Our league had division presidents who cannot have a kid in that division. Unfortunately, our league has the full board decide on protested games. Our league's president is a mom who's a decent and hard working organizer but she's a little weak on her baseball knowledge. One of her son's plays in our division and her other son is an umpire in it. (Problem there, right? And her older son is the worst and laziest ump in the league, but doesn't get called on it.) In a game involving her younger son's team, our pitcher was called for a game ending balk but making a fake throw to third base, allowing the winning run to score. We protested because the umpire confirmed that his call was made because he believed you cannot fake a throw to third -- there was not other basis for the call. No-nothing league president ramrodded through a decision that the call was a "judgment call" and chastising the division president for even kicking the decision up the ladder to the Board. No thought was given to the idea that every "judgment" call can be a basis for protest if the ump admits that the basis for the call was a rule interpretation. And, certainly no consideration was given to the fact that maybe she should have stepped away from a decision involving her team.