Why The AL doesn't want the Twins to win the Wildcard (simple math)

[OU Hitman]

Santana+Liriano / 5 game series = NO CHANCE

[JordanDL3891]

why the AL does want the twins or whitesox in:

Twins or whitesox in = Redsox not

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Santana+Liriano / 5 game series = NO CHANCE
Didn't everyone say that about the Braves when they had Maddux, Glavine and Schmoltz and about the A's when they had Mulder, Zito, and Hudson? :rolleyes:

[Brannu]

Didn't everyone say that about the Braves when they had Maddux, Glavine and Schmoltz and about the A's when they had Mulder, Zito, and Hudson? :rolleyes:

Yes, they did. Excellent point.

Liriano left today's game after four innings ... 10 hits, 4 ER. He said that the forearm problems weren't anything .... I'm not so sure

[jpenrod]

Didn't everyone say that about the Braves when they had Maddux, Glavine and Schmoltz and about the A's when they had Mulder, Zito, and Hudson? :rolleyes:

Yes excellent point in all the years the braves played in the divisional series with Maddux, Smoltz, and Glavine in the starting rotation they had a 15-2 record.

Now the A's on the other hand....

[Say Hey]

Santana+Liriano / 5 game series = NO CHANCE

The Tigers just opened a can on Liriano. Only 4 runs against him but he gave up 10 hits. Santana was going to lose that game against Detroit last Sunday if it weren't for that 8th inning meltdown by Detroit.

[tigers527]

I don't see why everyone should be so worried? I mean Liriano is....0-1 with a 7.47 ERA against the Tigers. Ok to be fair as a starter he's 0-1 with a 4.50 ERA and a ND (which the Twins lost). Santana is a little better against the Tigers with a 3.10 ERA, 1-1 and a ND (which the Twins won).

The one thing to consider though is over 80% of Lirianos' wins come against teams with a sub .500 record.

That said, the way things seem to be shaping up. The only way the Tigers would face the Twins in the playoffs is if the Twins beat the Yankees in the 1st round, and the Tigers beat the AL west representitive.

[riverfrontier]

The Tigers are now 10-3 against the Twins. Liriano would be the best rookie pitcher of the year, if he hadn't faced the Tigers, and if Justin Verlander weren't around. OU Hitman, O! U! I'll still respect you in October, though. In the meantime, keep those homer hankies in the tackle box with your ice fishing gear. Wouldn't want to let them go to waste. Winter is long.

[Biggtone23]

Yeah everyone said the same thing about Mulder, Zito and Hudson. Didn't work out too well though.

[efin98]

Yes excellent point in all the years the braves played in the divisional series with Maddux, Smoltz, and Glavine in the starting rotation they had a 15-2 record.

Now the A's on the other hand....


15-2? I have them at 10-2 in the NLDS over the period of 1995-1999 before Smoltz went to the bullpen.
4-0 for Smoltz(7-0 overall)
4-1 for Maddux(5-3 overall)
2-1 for Glavine(3-3 overall)

Frankly only Smoltz is impressive, the other two are average.

And overall in the post season they aren't all that good either:
12-4 for Smoltz
10-10 for Maddux
10-11 for Glavine


Nice pitchers, but are more hype than substance when it matters according to their records.

[jpenrod]

15-2? I have them at 10-2 in the NLDS over the period of 1995-1999 before Smoltz went to the bullpen.
4-0 for Smoltz(7-0 overall)
4-1 for Maddux(5-3 overall)
2-1 for Glavine(3-3 overall)

check your math, you have to have 3 wins to advance beyond the LDS. 95-99 covers 5 postseasons which equates to 15 wins. I am not saying that those three earned all 15 wins, but the braves are 15-2 when all three are in the starting rotation. I also did not say that they were each individually impressive, but I am not sure why you do not consider a 4-1 record impressive for maddux.

Frankly only Smoltz is impressive, the other two are average.


And overall in the post season they aren't all that good either:
12-4 for Smoltz
10-10 for Maddux
10-11 for Glavine


Nice pitchers, but are more hype than substance when it matters according to their records.

These stats are not a surprise to anyone that follows the Braves or is an avid fan. Smoltz is the winningest postseason pitcher (15-4 in his career now)but Maddux and Glavine have always struggled in the postseason (something the Mets should be aware of). Of course this whole topic was discussing the ability of a solid rotation being able to dominate in a short 5 game series; therefore the LDS is the only series that applies here and as a team 15-2 over a 5 year period is d@mn impressive (unless you are just looking for a reason to minimize the Braves achievements).

[efin98]

check your math, you have to have 3 wins to advance beyond the LDS. 95-99 covers 5 postseasons which equates to 15 wins. I am not saying that those three earned all 15 wins, but the braves are 15-2 when all three are in the starting rotation. I also did not say that they were each individually impressive, but I am not sure why you do not consider a 4-1 record impressive for maddux.

THE TEAM was 15-2, but that was due to the bullpen. in the other five games. Even then, it doesn't scream good especially considering all of those wins went for nothing after they won the LDS every year but 1995.

Frankly only Smoltz is impressive, the other two are average.

Smoltz was the guy that they could count on most and if you have to rely on your third starter to carry the team like Atlanta did they were going to have troubles...as is evident by what happened to them time and time again in the post season.


Smoltz is the winningest postseason pitcher (15-4 in his career now)but Maddux and Glavine have always struggled in the postseason (something the Mets should be aware of).

When your #3 starter has to carry the team something is wrong.

Of course this whole topic was discussing the ability of a solid rotation being able to dominate in a short 5 game series; therefore the LDS is the only series that applies here and as a team 15-2 over a 5 year period is d@mn impressive (unless you are just looking for a reason to minimize the Braves achievements).

They minimized their achievements themselves. The team's outcome is telling enough with me having to pile on it.

[Capitol]

Well, at this rate, the Jays'll leapfrog everyone and pull a Marlins

:D

[W_Marone]

well at this point it doesnt look like it will be Liriano in the Twins off season plans, he is apparently in excruciating pain after his last start. DL stint most likely on the way. (out indefinantly)

[jpenrod]

THE TEAM was 15-2, but that was due to the bullpen. in the other five games. Even then, it doesn't scream good especially considering all of those wins went for nothing after they won the LDS every year but 1995.



Smoltz was the guy that they could count on most and if you have to rely on your third starter to carry the team like Atlanta did they were going to have troubles...as is evident by what happened to them time and time again in the post season.




When your #3 starter has to carry the team something is wrong.



They minimized their achievements themselves. The team's outcome is telling enough with me having to pile on it.


Seriously man read the thread!!!!!

the point was that having a rotation 3 deep makes the TEAM difficult to beat in a LDS 5 game serious. It had nothing to do with how they perform beyond that.

In 1995 Pena came into two games in the 8th inning with the score tied, pitched one inning and got the win. I guess because he got credited with the wins he was more important in those games than the pitchers that got them to that point. the starting rotation was 1-0 in that series. Maddux pitched 7 innings surrendering 3 runs in one of Pena's victories, Glavine followed with 7 innings and 2 ER in Pena's other victory. Smoltz, the stallwort of the Braves in the Post Season surrendered 5 runs in 6 innings but the bullpen took the loss. It should also be noted that the two games that Pena got his victory were played in Colorado so the 3 runs that Maddux and Glavine surrendered are not that dissappointing.

in 1996 Smoltz pitched 9 innings surrending 1 run and earning the victory, Maddux followed that with 7 shutout innings and a victory and Glavine followed that with 6 2/3 innings and 1 run for the victory. Starting rotation 3-0

In 1997 Maddux and Smoltz both turned in 1 run complete game victories. Glavine did not fair as well, surrendering 3 runs in 6 innings and earning the victory. Starting Rotation 3-0

in 1998 Smoltz pitched 7 2/3 innings and surrendered 1 won in his victory. Maddux surrendered 2 runs in 7 innings in his victory and Glavine surrendered 1 run in 7 innings in his no decision (won by the bullpen). Starting rotation 2-0

in 1999 Maddux and Glavine each surrendered 2 ER in 7 innings in games they loss and recieved a no decision respectively. Smoltz surrendered 5 runs in 6 innings of a game he won. Millwood started on game and pitched 9 innings surrendering 1 run. Starting Rotation 2-1

While it is true that The Braves starting rotation is not credited with all 15 victorie in that period it is also true that the Starting rotation gave the Braves a total of 14 quality starts in that span. The three games the starters did not give a quality start the starter did get the win.

The whole reason I brought up the 15-2 record was it was insinuated that having Braves have not faired well in the LDS despite having a solid starting rotation. In the years the Braves had Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz the team was 15-2 in the LDS, with 14 QS from the Braves starting rotation and 10 victories and only one loss going to the starting rotation in a game that Maddux surrendered 2 ER in 7 IP (despite your earlier post crediting Glavine with a loss which came later).

your references to Smoltz as a third starter are almost laughable. When you can claim a pitcher like Smoltz as your third starter I think it is okay to lean on him. Also what does Smoltz being a number three starter have to do with him being the winningest pitcher in postseason history at 15-4.

okay it is getting late and I am getting tired, but I am going to sum it up by saying that a 15-2 record in the LDS, 14 QS from your starters and a 10-1 record from your starters in the LDS does little to support HWR statement that having a rotation of Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz did not help the Braves in the LDS.