Is baseball a game or a sport?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Is baseball a game or a sport? I had an interesting conversation several years ago with a "baseball hater". She said that baseball is not a real sport. She said that it's not a physically strenuous activity so it's not a real sport. She said it's more of a game. So, what say you, BBF?

Here are some definitions:


sport
n.

1. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
2. A particular form of this activity.
3. An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.
4. An active pastime; recreation.


game
n.

1. An activity providing entertainment or amusement; a pastime: party games; word games.

2.
a. A competitive activity or sport in which players contend with each other according to a set of rules: the game of basketball; the game of gin rummy.
b. A single instance of such an activity: We lost the first game.
c. games An organized athletic program or contest: track-and-field games; took part in the winter games.
d. A period of competition or challenge: It was too late in the game to change the schedule of the project.

A famous baseball writer once said that baseball is closer to golf than a decathlon.

[RuthMayBond]

Is baseball a game or a sport? I had an interesting conversation several years ago with a "baseball hater". She said that baseball is not a real sport. She said that it's not a physically strenuous activity so it's not a real sport.Has she ever pitched or caught even a fastpitch game?

[Captain Cold Nose]

Has she ever pitched or caught even a fastpitch game?
Or tried running from first to third?
Or tried to catch a ball that required them to move more than twenty feet?
Or had to slide?
Or tried to hit a slow curve?

[Williamsburg2599]

Baseball is a sport, but a indivusual baseball event is a game.

[Williamsburg2599]

Or tried running from first to third?
Or tried to catch a ball the required them to move more than twenty feet?
Or had to slide?
Or tried to hit a slow curve?
Or played a double header?
Or got a base hit bunt?
the list goes on...and on....

[Honus Wagner Rules]

My friend is a competitive triathlete.

[Outta Here]

... Or hit a 400ft HR :laugh no.. didnt think so.

I think it's both! :clapping

[Captain Cold Nose]

My friend is a competitive triathlete.
What does she consider a sport then? While a triathlon is as grueling as it gets, it's as much endurance as skill level.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

What does she consider a sport then? While a triathlon is as grueling as it gets, it's as much endurance as skill level.
I don't know what she considers a "sport".

[Elvis]

Or played a double header?
Or got a base hit bunt?
the list goes on...and on....

Or ever done the "Yankee Drill"! That used to kill me! :eek: :eek:

[Elvis]

I don't know what she considers a "sport".

Probably the WWE or jello wrestling.

[Padday]

Describing it as a sport or a game is just too vague. It really depends on what your definition of the words are. It's just too subjective. the only way to acurately define it is to explain the basics of the game/sport.

To sum up, they are just words at the end of the day.

[bluezebra]

I don't know what she considers a "sport".

A guy who buys her an expensive dinner, and keep her in drinks all night.

Bob

[bluezebra]

What is baseball?

BIG BUSINESS!!!! When the employees make seven figures a year, it is no longer a game or sport.

Bob

[VTSoxFan]

Bluezebra is right, of course, but...

Baseball is a mental game that requires periods of intense athleticism. It is both a game and a sport.

[DownUnderDodger]

What is baseball?

BIG BUSINESS!!!! When the employees make seven figures a year, it is no longer a game or sport.

Bob
Ya beat me to it Bob - it can be seen as neither a game or a sport these days, it is a business - at least at MLB level. I guess it could be seen as a game, played as an organised sport, within a business regime!! :crazy

But then again, to the kids playing little league or park ball (and all of baseball in Australia), it is still game which is generally played as a sport!!

[BaseballHistoryNut]

No option for "It's a religion"?

[tigers527]

Alright, here is a simple definition that makes sence to me. I being a very simple man. A local radio talk show host and writer, quantifies sport as a contest or game in which the threat of pulling a groin is real. Therefore, baseball is a sport (just yesterday the Tampa Bay starter, Jae Seo left the game in the 5th with a sore groin).

This means things like Nascar, Bowling, Darts, and Golf are not sports. Yeah, I guess you could pull a groin bowling, but is that threat real? I think not.

Actually, I guess this debate could be boiled down to athletes v non atheletic people. With that in mind, I guess, I could see where you might call some baseball players, non atheletic (David Wells, C.C. Sabathia come to mind). However, if you take the players as atheletes as the grounds of sport. Do you preclude football (cause of the linemen)? Is Sumo not a sport, I say it is. Sure Sumo is a rather odd sport for American sensibilities, but still a sport. Any rec league will show you lots of non atheletes playing sports.

Thats it, I guess?

[VTSoxFan]

No option for "It's a religion"?

:D

Right on, BHN.

[rockin500]

Ya beat me to it Bob - it can be seen as neither a game or a sport these days, it is a business - at least at MLB level. I guess it could be seen as a game, played as an organised sport, within a business regime!! :crazy

But then again, to the kids playing little league or park ball (and all of baseball in Australia), it is still game which is generally played as a sport!!
but then again are cricket or rugby (soccer too?) sports or big business over there too? It pretty much is in NZ.

[Elvis]

Baseball isn't a business when the kids are playing it in the street or in a pick-up game in the park. :dance

[tigers527]

Baseball isn't a business when the kids are playing it in the street or in a pick-up game in the park. :dance

I don't know the last "pick up" game I have seen. Maybe it is the whole fall by the way side thing you get when you get your drivers license? I usually pay attention to the baseball when it happens, and most of the sport now seems organized. I blame Playstation. Or perhaps I am just driving by the back yards where baseball is happening. I have a feeling though that kids today don't play "GHOST RUNNERS" (oh, those were the days, deja vu).

[BaseballHistoryNut]

I will offer this from my own life's story, as a kid and a young adult:

I was as unathletic as a person could be. Never ran the 50-yard dash in less than 8.4 seconds--yes, you read that correctly--couldn't throw any kind of ball farther than the average 60-year-old could throw it, couldn't put a basketball in the ocean despite my height (6'2"-), and was all-around F- as an athlete.

But I could hit the bejesus out of a baseball, until I got to the high school level and ran into good breaking pitches. And I could hit the bejesus out of even good slow-pitch softball pitchers. So, despite their having to hide me at 1B or RF and pray not too many balls were hit at me, I was considered an extremely valuable baseball player--one more than worth all of the defensive risks. In one season, I led the softball league from beginning to end in BA and RBI's.

In basketball, if I had been, say, a terrific shot, the other team would have found a more athletic person of my height or close to it, shut down my scoring ability, and gone through me like the sieve I was on defense. And my team quickly would have been forced to bench me.

In football, even if I'd had golden hands (:laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh ), they would have found a person near my height with normal speed and normal leaping ability, and I would have had zero value. And I would have been a flat-out catastrophe on defense, allowing as many points as the other team felt like scoring. (And trust me, I'm not exaggerating how hapless I was athletically. Ever hear a guy brag about these things?)

But in baseball, you can be the worst athlete on the field, yet if you can hit the hell out of the ball, who cares? And that was me.

Dave Kingman was nowhere near the MLB hitter that I was a Little League, Babe Ruth League or City Softball League hitter, yet for all the horrible flaws in his swing, he hit 442 of the most awesome, breathtaking HR's in MLB history--a disproportionate share of them having been very clutch--and he probably will make the HOF someday, when those who remember just how HORRENDOUS his fielding and personality were have all died. John Kruk won't make the Hall, but he was a .300 hitter with a body twice as bad as Ruth's at its worst, and he famously remarked to a woman who'd castigated him for being an "athlete" in such dreadful shape, "Lady, I'm not an athlete, I'm a baseball player!"

He, Luzinski and a lot of others--n.b., NOT Frank Howard--have been living proof one needn't be a good athlete at the MLB level, if one hits well enough. Once upon a time, at a vastly less important level which only a handful of people will ever remember, so was I--the worst athlete you ever could have seen.

BHN

[RuthMayBond]

Alright, here is a simple definition that makes sence to me. I being a very simple man. A local radio talk show host and writer, quantifies sport as a contest or game in which the threat of pulling a groin is real. Therefore, baseball is a sport (just yesterday the Tampa Bay starter, Jae Seo left the game in the 5th with a sore groin).

This means things like Nascar, Bowling, Darts, and Golf are not sports. Yeah, I guess you could pull a groin bowling, but is that threat real? I think not.
That's actually not a bad definition :clapping ElHalo even had one that wasn't bad :eek: Someone had to being trying to physically prevent you from doing something, which would knock out bowling, darts and golf but maybe not nascar

[Elvis]

sport ( P ) Pronunciation Key (spôrt, sprt)
n.

1. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.

2. A particular form of this activity.

3. An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.

4. An active pastime; recreation.

Since baseball fits all of these definitions it's obviously a sport as well as a game.

[Sliding Billy]

Actually, I guess this debate could be boiled down to athletes v non atheletic people. With that in mind, I guess, I could see where you might call some baseball players, non atheletic (David Wells, C.C. Sabathia come to mind). However, if you take the players as atheletes as the grounds of sport. Do you preclude football (cause of the linemen)? Is Sumo not a sport, I say it is. Sure Sumo is a rather odd sport for American sensibilities, but still a sport. Any rec league will show you lots of non atheletes playing sports.

Thats it, I guess?
Just a point in passing: Sumo wrestlers are real athletes. It's a notion that's very hard to get used to, but they have to be fast, agile, well-conditioned, as well as strong. Chiyonofuji, perhaps the greatest modern sumo wrestler, was quite small, with tremendous upper-body strength, built like a linebacker with a small gut, and he would win most of the time. But every so often some blob would waddle out and put him on his butt. That's something only a real athlete could do.

[Brownie31]

It is a sport, a game, a big business, an unregulated monopoly,
a front office and public relations disaster, and yet, for all of
that, it is still The National Pastime and I love it!

Brownie31

[Elvis]

It is a sport, a game, a big business, an unregulated monopoly,
a front office and public relations disaster, and yet, for all of
that, it is still The National Pastime and I love it!

Brownie31

Are we talking about baseball, or MLB Inc.? I'm confused. :noidea

[ZR56664]

Baseball is a sport. Hide and seek is a game.

[Elvis]

Baseball is a sport. Hide and seek is a game.

What about tackle hide-and-seek? :laugh

[Mr. Red]

That's actually not a bad definition :clapping ElHalo even had one that wasn't bad :eek: Someone had to being trying to physically prevent you from doing something, which would knock out bowling, darts and golf but maybe not nascar
So then competitive swimming would not be a sport? I think that it most definitely is.

[Elvis]

So then competitive swimming would not be a sport? I think that it most definitely is.

That would also eliminate Track and Field too.

[RuthMayBond]

That would also eliminate Track and Field too.Well, there can be a lot of elbowing in running ;) but yeah, ElHalo's definition has fallen short

[Wade8813]

Baseball is a sport, game, business, and more.

All sports are games; not all games are sports. Sports are a subcategory of games. Like how green is a color, but not all colors are green.

And while there's a lot of business with the multi-million dollar contracts, and the trading; when you get between the two white lines, that's all pushed off to the side*.



* For the most part. But why nitpick?

[PeteF3]

All sports are games; not all games are sports. Sports are a subcategory of games. Like how green is a color, but not all colors are green.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone refer to auto racing, horse racing, or boxing as a "game." I certainly don't think of them as such.

And to be perfectly blunt...to think that baseball *isn't* a sport is just plain dumb.

[FatAngel]

It is a game, because you need a ball to play it :)
"ball sports" cause much more excitement, drama and participants becoming heroes and villains than, let´s say, track and field. That´s true for baseball as well as ping pong.
Personally I am not interested in any sports other than those of game nature, therefore usually involving a ball or something equivalent.

[Padday]

It is a game, because you need a ball to play it.

Personally I am not interested in any sports other than those of game nature, therefore usually involving a ball or something equivalent.

Tag is a game and it doesn't use a ball. And the only difference between that and a hundred metre sprint is that you're chasing a time in the 100m sprint rather than someone else.

[Padday]

Really ? There are games that do not use balls ?

Lot's of games that don't use balls have proffessional equivilents.

Eg.
Have you ever played sticks, where you try to jump as far as you can and then mark it with a stick adn then someone else tries to beat it. It's basically the long jump.

What I am basically saying is that saying that games can be defined as almost allways using a ball just doesn't work.

[FatAngel]

Argh, you caught my answer before I could edit it out :)
Many games have professional sport equivalents, but do you perceive long jump or 100m dash still as a game ?

[Brownie31]

Are we talking about baseball, or MLB Inc.? I'm confused. :noidea

Unfortunately, the two are intertwined!

Brownie

[Padday]

Many games have professional sport equivalents, but do you perceive long jump or 100m dash still as a game ?
I guess it does seem wierd saying the game of long jump or the game of 100m sprint as aposed to the game of baseball.

[Elvis]

Unfortunately, the two are intertwined!

Brownie

Huh? How are Little League; Church leagues; backyard games; HS baseball; Pony League; t-ball etc. intertwined with MLB Inc? No way. That's like saying me making a potluck dish for the church picnic is intertwined with TGI Friday. It seems a lot of the responses here are strictly related to MLB inc. and other responses are related to the game of baseball in general. I was just wondering if it was ever decided which of these two was the subject of the thread's question.

[Brownie31]

Huh? How are Little League; Church leagues; backyard games; HS baseball; Pony League; t-ball etc. intertwined with MLB Inc? No way. That's like saying me making a potluck dish for the church picnic is intertwined with TGI Friday. It seems a lot of the responses here are strictly related to MLB inc. and other responses are related to the game of baseball in general. I was just wondering if it was ever decided which of these two was the subject of the thread's question.

Unfortunately, MLB Inc. is the public face of baseball.
People across the USA are aware of Barry Bonds' woes
whereas Little League, Church leagues, etc are of
interest mainly to a local neighborhood.

Fortunately, TGI Friday is not an unregulated monopoly
that affects all other forms of dining.

Brownie31

[Elvis]

Unfortunately, MLB Inc. is the public face of baseball.
People across the USA are aware of Barry Bonds' woes
whereas Little League, Church leagues, etc are of
interest mainly to a local neighborhood.

Fortunately, TGI Friday is not an unregulated monopoly
that affects all other forms of dining.

Brownie31

Can't say I quite agree. MLB's "affects" on high school/Little league/backyard/church/t-ball/college/japanese/korean/cuban baseball has yet to be clearly pointed out to me. If anything, the affects work both ways. Several things we see in MLB started in these other "leagues" first. Ear flaps for example started in Little league. So really Little league affected MLB in that case. It works both ways. it's all under the big umbrella called baseball.

McDonald's may be the "public face" of American hamburgers worldwide, but when I make my burgers at home, McDonald's is not part of my burger experience.

[Padday]

Unfortunately, MLB Inc. is the public face of baseball.
People across the USA are aware of Barry Bonds' woes
whereas Little League, Church leagues, etc are of
interest mainly to a local neighborhood.

Fortunately, TGI Friday is not an unregulated monopoly
that affects all other forms of dining.

Brownie31
If you're out just playing with some friends in the park is there going to be any MLB billboards around, any million dollar contracts or any big business at all going on. No, it's just baseball and having fun.

[Mattingly]

You won't exactly find people like Boomer or Sabathia in other sports, unless you count the 300-lb linebackers in the NFL. William "Refrigerator" Perry (http://members.aol.com/suprbowlXX/perry.html) waves a big hello (all 300 lbs of him). :waving

So long as billiards, poker and auto racing are all shown on ESPN and are each considered sports, I don't see why baseball wouldn't be a sport.

[Brownie31]

Can't say I quite agree. MLB's "affects" on high school/Little league/backyard/church/t-ball/college/japanese/korean/cuban baseball has yet to be clearly pointed out to me. If anything, the affects work both ways. Several things we see in MLB started in these other "leagues" first. Ear flaps for example started in Little league. So really Little league affected MLB in that case. It works both ways. it's all under the big umbrella called baseball.

McDonald's may be the "public face" of American hamburgers worldwide, but when I make my burgers at home, McDonald's is not part of my burger experience.

Perhaps I expressed myself poorly. In my initial post, I was
trying to say that baseball is many things including but not
limited to a game and a sport.

I never meant to denigrate Little League (which my own
son played), Church league or anything else. All of those
are integral and honorable parts of baseball.

This site is composed of very knowledgable and
intelligent people such as yourself. However,
when I referred to MLB Inc. as the public face
of baseball, this was in referrence to the general
public many of whose exposure to The National
Pastime is MLB Inc. with its scandal-ridden
arrogance and stupidity.

Sorry for the confusion.

Brownie31

[Elvis]

Perhaps I expressed myself poorly. In my initial post, I was
trying to say that baseball is many things including but not
limited to a game and a sport.

I never meant to denigrate Little League (which my own
son played), Church league or anything else. All of those
are integral and honorable parts of baseball.

This site is composed of very knowledgable and
intelligent people such as yourself. However,
when I referred to MLB Inc. as the public face
of baseball, this was in referrence to the general
public many of whose exposure to The National
Pastime is MLB Inc. with its scandal-ridden
arrogance and stupidity.

Sorry for the confusion.

Brownie31

No need to apologize for any confusion. We're all just having fun with our opinions. :)

[Brownie31]

No need to apologize for any confusion. We're all just having fun with our opinions. :)

Right you are. This is the best site on the web!

Brownie31

[Elvis]

Right you are. This is the best site on the web!

Brownie31

Can't argue with that! :coffee

[sturg1dj]

Has she ever pitched or caught even a fastpitch game?

I caught a couple of doubleheaders in Highschool and in city league.........my body was gone.......I was useless if I got a hit in that game, cause I couldn't run.

I even played football, and I will say catching those games wore me out more than anything

[sturg1dj]

"GHOST RUNNERS" (oh, those were the days, deja vu).


lol...those were the days....but a major problem with pickup games throughout history is that its hard to get enough people, even when playing half field pitcher's hands you still need at least 4 on a sire, and then its slow unless you have a bunch of balls. Where you can play basketball with 1 or 2 people.


but yeah, I am not THAT old and I played pickup baseball...I actually played a little while at college last year...so it still happens

[Elvis]

lol...those were the days....but a major problem with pickup games throughout history is that its hard to get enough people, even when playing half field pitcher's hands you still need at least 4 on a sire, and then its slow unless you have a bunch of balls. Where you can play basketball with 1 or 2 people.


but yeah, I am not THAT old and I played pickup baseball...I actually played a little while at college last year...so it still happens

A couple of years ago I was staying with my friend and his family and we would always start up a baseball game after school in the front yard--on asphalt, no less!

[sturg1dj]

A couple of years ago I was staying with my friend and his family and we would always start up a baseball game after school in the front yard--on asphalt, no less!


i was truly lucky. I am originally from a nice little subdivision in Michigan and the local youth baseball fields were not only connected to my grade school, but about a 3 minute bikeride from my house. So every game I ever played in little league I rode my bike.



Glory Days.....Oh they'll pass you by....haha

[rockin500]

You won't exactly find people like Boomer or Sabathia in other sports, unless you count the 300-lb linebackers in the NFL. William "Refrigerator" Perry (http://members.aol.com/suprbowlXX/perry.html) waves a big hello (all 300 lbs of him). :waving

So long as billiards, poker and auto racing are all shown on ESPN and are each considered sports, I don't see why baseball wouldn't be a sport.
perry was closer to 400 most of his career than 300. ;)

[tigers527]

perry was closer to 400 most of his career than 300. ;)

Since the "Fridge" was brought into this debate.....What about competive eating? That a sport.

And to what's on ESPN, the "E" does stand for entertainment, so just cause it is on ESPN does not mean it is a sport. Heck, that Pete Rose movie was neither a sport or entertaining. Entertainment & Sports Programming Network, I could be wrong? but thats close.

[sandlot]

Reading through all these posts, I think we arrive at the following summary:

When played informally, baseball is essentially a game; when organized into a competitive structure (at many levels), the game is elevated to the level of sport; when the sport is played professionally, especially as Major League Baseball, it is a business that can be classified as part of the entertainment industry, specifically one where the performers are at risk of groin injury (a feature shared commonly in the industry with Sumo wrestlers, stunt doubles and energetic lap dancers). At a conceptual level, baseball is a philosophical construct to which adherents often form deep, even cult-like attachments with strong overtones of Mannichaen Good-vs.-Evil struggles. It is even claimed by some to have profound spritual significance (a belief inexplicably strong among residents of Vermont), and is even reputed to be a source of occasional miracles, especially -- for reasons baffling to scientists and divinators alike -- in Boston and Chicago.

Can we agree?? :)

[Seattle1]

Well, in the newspaper I turn to the sports page to read about baseball, not the lifestyles & passtimes page or whatever. That's one way to think of it.

[tigers527]

Reading through all these posts, I think we arrive at the following summary:

When played informally, baseball is essentially a game; when organized into a competitive structure (at many levels), the game is elevated to the level of sport; when the sport is played professionally, especially as Major League Baseball, it is a business that can be classified as part of the entertainment industry, specifically one where the performers are at risk of groin injury (a feature shared commonly in the industry with Sumo wrestlers, stunt doubles and energetic lap dancers). At a conceptual level, baseball is a philosophical construct to which adherents often form deep, even cult-like attachments with strong overtones of Mannichaen Good-vs.-Evil struggles. It is even claimed by some to have profound spritual significance (a belief inexplicably strong among residents of Vermont), and is even reputed to be a source of occasional miracles, especially -- for reasons baffling to scientists and divinators alike -- in Boston and Chicago.

Can we agree?? :)

Great post, if this were Myspace, I would give you like 2 kudos. In fact, moderator you can delete the other 57 some odd posts, as Sandlot did such a great job of boiling it down to the meat of the issue at hand. :D

[ESPNFan]

Here is a definitive catagorization for you.

A sport is an athletic activity where there is a winner and a loser and the participants, by design, can decide the outcome themselves, without the subjective imput of outside observers for scoring.

Baseball is a sport. To me a game or match is when you play a sport to the point of completion/victory.