Minnie Miñoso

[mtortolero]

How many years played Miñoso in Negro Leagues and how he was as hitter?
Thanks in advance

[jalbright]

The best data I have is from The Negro Leagues Book by Dick Clark and Larry Lester. There are two Negro League seasons without data. I also provided the Cuban Winter League data. Remember, Negro League seasons were often short. We also do not have walk data here, so it's hard to answer the question. Nevertheless, it's clear he wasn't overwhelming in these seasons before he got himself established in the majors.


Year G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB AVG SLG
1945 …. …. …. …. …. …. …. …. …. …. ….
1946 33 123 22 32 7 3 3 16 1 0.260 0.439
1947 55 228 56 67 14 0 3 … 7 0.294 0.395
1948 …. …. …. …. …. …. …. …. …. …. ….
totals 88 351 78 99 21 3 6 16 8 0.260 0.410
per 550 AB 550 34 50 11 5 5 25 2 0.260 0.410

Cuba
45-46 37 143 14 42 7 2 0 13 5 0.294 0.371
46-47 64 253 36 63 9 5 0 20 7 0.249 0.324
47-48 70 270 43 77 15 13 1 36 7 0.285 0.448
48-49 69 260 42 69 8 5 4 27 9 0.265 0.381
49-50 didn't play (?)
50-51 66 252 54 81 12 6 4 41 10 0.321 0.464
totals 306 1178 189 332 51 31 9 137 38 0.265 0.401
per 550 AB 550 20 32 4 2 2 13 4 0.265 0.401

[J.P]

Why is Monte Irvin in the Hall and not Minnie?? Better yet, I know this is not the thread to discuss this, but why are Phil Rizzutto and Pee Wee Reese in the Hall and not Bert Campaneris or Dave Concepcion?? Why are Catfish Hunter, Jim Bunning, or Don Drysdale in the Hall and not Luis Tiant?? :noidea

[jalbright]

Why is Monte Irvin in the Hall and not Minnie??

Irvin had a far more distinguished career in the Negro Leagues than Minoso. Irvin deserves to be there, but so does Minoso, IMO.

Jim Albright

[mtortolero]

The best data I have is from The Negro Leagues Book by Dick Clark and Larry Lester. There are two Negro League seasons without data. I also provided the Cuban Winter League data. Remember, Negro League seasons were often short. We also do not have walk data here, so it's hard to answer the question. Nevertheless, it's clear he wasn't overwhelming in these seasons before he got himself established in the majors.


Year G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB AVG SLG
1945 …. …. …. …. …. …. …. …. …. …. ….
1946 33 123 22 32 7 3 3 16 1 0.260 0.439
1947 55 228 56 67 14 0 3 … 7 0.294 0.395
1948 …. …. …. …. …. …. …. …. …. …. ….
totals 88 351 78 99 21 3 6 16 8 0.260 0.410
per 550 AB 550 34 50 11 5 5 25 2 0.260 0.410

Cuba
45-46 37 143 14 42 7 2 0 13 5 0.294 0.371
46-47 64 253 36 63 9 5 0 20 7 0.249 0.324
47-48 70 270 43 77 15 13 1 36 7 0.285 0.448
48-49 69 260 42 69 8 5 4 27 9 0.265 0.381
49-50 didn't play (?)
50-51 66 252 54 81 12 6 4 41 10 0.321 0.464
totals 306 1178 189 332 51 31 9 137 38 0.265 0.401
per 550 AB 550 20 32 4 2 2 13 4 0.265 0.401



By the stats look as Minoso was ready to play at the majors by 1946, when he was 23 years old, which means around five years loss by the racial issue.
That problably meansas much as 750 to 800 hits and 60 to 70 hrs. less for a possible carrer total. Although sounds hard he could get 3000 hits still a total of 2800-2900 hits, 450 - 500 2XBH, 250 Hrs and 1400 rbi using his real total carrer average. Sounds as a HOF for me.
Thanks Jim by your quickly answer.

[WJackman]

Couple of other issues.

Minoso now claims that his actual birth occurred in November of 1925 rather than 1922. He had to do so in order to be old enough to get a visa to come to the United States.

Minoso was originally a 3bman and, according to Hank Greenberg, resisted initial attempts by the Cleveland management to convert him to the outfield. Greenberg went on to say that Minoso was not a very good fielder at 3b, and nowhere near the ability of Al Rosen.

Once Minoso started piling up good numbers in the outfield (remember to downgrade his raw stats a little because of the longer PCL schedule), his fib about his age (if you believe the age, and not too is to doubt Minoso's own words) backfired for management thought he was three years older than he really was. This prompted Cleveland to go with San Diego teammate Harry Simpson, who 1) was African-American, 2) was a natural outfielder, and 3) put up better numbers that Minoso in the minors; especially if adjusting for age.

That Minoso turned out to be a greater major league than Simpson is now history, but certainly unknown to Cleveland when they decided that Simpson was the better prospect.

[jalbright]

By the stats look as Minoso was ready to play at the majors by 1946, when he was 23 years old, which means around five years loss by the racial issue.
That problably meansas much as 750 to 800 hits and 60 to 70 hrs. less for a possible carrer total. Although sounds hard he could get 3000 hits still a total of 2800-2900 hits, 450 - 500 2XBH, 250 Hrs and 1400 rbi using his real total carrer average. Sounds as a HOF for me.
Thanks Jim by your quickly answer.

I'm sure he missed at least three years (and 450-500 hits), and quite possibly five or six. It's hard to know what to do with the birthdate issue, because Minoso has admitted lying on the issue (he has to have done so--not that it's a crime or anything, but once credibility on an issue is in question, it's always in question on that issue, particularly when he might think that his HOF case gets stronger if he lost more years)--but IMO three years is enough.

I try to respond promptly, but sometimes catching me at precisely the right moment is helpful too, and in this case, if you'd been ten minutes later, my computer would have been off. Anyway, you're welcome.

Jim Albright

[J.P]

Hi Jim, you seem to be very knowledgeable on this issue. What do you make of my other question marks regarding HOFers and players who didnt make it in. Am I just being too passionate, or do I have a valid point, that in the past, being born in the US gave you a better chance to get in??

[jalbright]

Hi Jim, you seem to be very knowledgeable on this issue. What do you make of my other question marks regarding HOFers and players who didnt make it in. Am I just being too passionate, or do I have a valid point, that in the past, being born in the US gave you a better chance to get in??
Rather than hijack this thread, I'll start a new one here: http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?p=639972#post639972