Conspiracy theory?

[Baseball Guru]

Interesting article
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...section=si_mlb


Cirillo suggests balls at Coors Field are waterlogged


DENVER (AP) -- Illegal, waterlogged baseballs are the real reason runs are harder to come by at Coors Field nowadays, Milwaukee infielder Jeff Cirillo suggested Tuesday.

Cirillo said that on Monday he compared a baseball from Milwaukee that Brewers first base coach Dave Nelson used to hit fly balls to the outfielders with one from that night's game. The one from Denver was spongy, puffy and heavy, he said.


"One looked like a round ball and the other looked like an oblong ball," Cirillo said. "And even some of the infielders said when they were throwing across the diamond, the ball felt a little heavy."

Cirillo did not offer the baseballs as evidence when he spoke to reporters before the Brewers-Rockies game on Tuesday night.

The baseball from Milwaukee might simply have dried out and shrunk in Denver's thin air, the very reason the humidor was introduced at Coors Field five years ago. Balls are now stored in a humidor before they are used in Colorado's home park.

Coors Field is tied with Comerica Park in Detroit for the most shutouts in the majors this year with 10, including six by Rockies pitchers.

Cirillo, who played two seasons in Colorado pre-humidor, agreed the Rockies have better pitching now, "but at the same time, does that mean the rest of the league has better pitching, also?"

Cirillo suggested shenanigans with the humidor could account for the dip in scoring and the decline in home runs at the ballpark that used to be known as "Coors Canaveral" for all the baseballs that were launched into the seats.

"The other thing, too, is what if the Rockies get behind by a lot of runs in a game? Say they break out the non-humidor balls, you know what I'm saying?" Cirillo said.

Hogwash, said his manager, Ned Yost.

"That's nuts, man. That's just a waste of time discussing it. The same balls are used by both teams," Yost said. "I don't care if they are dry or wet."

Rockies manager Clint Hurdle, who was Cirillo's hitting instructor in Colorado from 2000-01, got a good chuckle out of Cirillo's comments.

"I think as long as people are talking in that vein and that avenue, it can do nothing but work for us," Hurdle said. "We're not allowed to cheat. And the balls that we send in are tested. And the humidor's regulated. You know, Jeff's always been a very creative thinker. ... He's always been able to think outside the box."

Cirillo said he's serious and that baseball should investigate his claims.

"It's pretty dramatic, wouldn't you say? Most shutouts in Coors Field, in the National League, when you take into account Petco, Dodger Stadium, where Washington plays. Those are huge parks," Cirillo said.

"Hey, I'm not the first one to complain about it."

Runs have never been harder to score at Coors Field since the stadium opened in 1995. The average game now features a combined nine runs -- down from 15 runs that were scored a decade ago. Of course, the Rockies don't have the Blake Street Bombers hitting home runs all over the place as they did back then.

[SamtheBravesFan]

Some conspiracy. It was easy to spot and someone blabbed. ;) I expect the black helicopters to come to Cirillo's house soon. :laugh

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Some conspiracy. It was easy to spot and someone blabbed. ;) I expect the black helicopters to come to Cirillo's house soon. :laugh
Even if this is true so what? The ball would affect both teams.

[Baseball Guru]

Even if this is true so what? The ball would affect both teams.

I just assumed when I read it that it was a "consipracy" to slow down the offenses.. Not so much to give 1 team an advantage over another...

Anyways, I just posted it because I thought it was interesting that a player would attribute the lack of offense this year to waterlogged balls...

[efin98]

When the hitting was good the pitchers complained.

When the hitting is bad the hitters complain.

Someone is going to complain regardless of whether it's the balls, the altitude, the weather, the fans, the noise, etc.


But seriously, when it was discussed on ESPN today it was noted that it's not really the humidor but actually the hot weather that is causing problems with the balls. The high heat and humidity that has been plaguing the nation lately is affecting the balls there, but no more so than it is affecting them in St. Louis or Chicago or Boston or New York. Most of the cities have the same troubles, it's just been going on longer in Denver than other cities...

[Southlake CubsFan]

accordig to bill plashke on ATH, their "beer logged"...he did lose points on that answer, for stupidity..

[plask_stirlac]

Exactly, it affects both teams. If Gaylord Perry's scuffing up a storm, it might be interesting if Jim Palmer were allowed to for those games, see what happens. Or maybe the #4 and 5 starters against Perry would be more fitting.

Now, we can't get into using mushballs to insure 1910's scoring, but for NEUTRALITY the ball apparently SHOULD be doctored for both teams at Coors. Runs/game are down from about 11 (just last year) to 8 and change. That's reasonable, maybe 33% tops on a park where runs can be scored at about a 1.5/1 relative pace. So it's closer to 1, and the Rockies have shifted more to pitching.

San Diego can build that cavernous jigsaw puzzle at sea level, neutrality be damned. If it were a small park, it could be fairly neutral a la Yankee Stadium, etc. But they can't choose in Denver, either it's how it is with lots of room for XBHs and carrying homers (with hanging pitches), or they draw things in and homers come like basketball buckets.

P.S., vacuum seal any Milwaukee ball.

[west coast orange and black]

wags: Even if this is true so what? The ball would affect both teams.

wow. i did not expect this from you, wags.
accepting possible cheating. :eek: :rolleyes:

[Wade8813]

It could make a huge difference. For one thing, the entire team could be constructed differently if you could get such an advantage. Teams utilize being in hitter's parks or pitcher's parks all the time; the same would apply for waterlogged baseballs.

Additionally, the baseball that's used in a game is changed constantly. It would be a simple matter to have a ball that favors you when you're up to bat (although you'd only do it once in a while, to allay suspicions).

[trosmok]

Once a baseball gets soaked, whether by liquid or high humidity, it takes forever and a day to dry out. Homeruns are down from the heyday in the mid-late nineties for a number of reasons, but soggy balls at Coors is not even close to the main reason. It was pretty well agreed by most in the know that PHDs were more rampant then, but perhaps more importantly The balls were juiced, too! Bug Selig all but admitted that the material used to wind around the pill was changed "around 1996" to a new synthetic that allowed 20% longer, thinner material, much tighter winding of the syntho-wool, and therefore a livlier ball that still conformed to the weight and diameter rules. The folks at Rawlings will only say all the MLB balls were once stitched in the Dominican Republic, then Haiti, and finally now in Costa Rica, but would offer no details as to the winding process or materials. Evidently the Rockies can do anything they choose with the balls once they've been unsealed, but only if they are supervised by the umpiring crew. All conspiracy crybabies should be aware that the homeplate ump is the guy that puts balls in the pitchers hands, and likewise takes them out of the game. Do you think the guys in blue would actually allow "heavy" balls to be used in the games they work? Cirillo just might be a few french fries short of a happy meal on this one.

[plask_stirlac]

I think the umpires will keep an eye on these balls, especially if they should feel heavy. I don't think the cheating will be out of control.

And I think the Rockies have four shutouts pitched this year.

[jwkfs]

I actually caught a ball at a Rockies game earlier this year, and it certainly didn't feel any different than any other baseball I've ever held; if anything, it felt lighter.

I don't buy any of this nonsense about waterlogging the balls; sure the humidor probably makes a difference, but there's no vast conspiracy.

I just think the Rockies pitching staff has matured this year; Jason Jennings has been good, Jeff Francis is coming into his own, Aaron Cook is a good groundball pitcher perfect for Colorado, and BK has had some excellent outings even if he isn't too consistent.

I just think Cirillo's a little upset that his team is behind the Rockies in the Wild Card race ;)

[Brownie31]

Who is to blame for Denver's puffy baseballs? The Federalist Society?
The Trilateral Commission? Halliburton?

Brownie31

[jwkfs]

Who is to blame for Denver's puffy baseballs? The Federalist Society?
The Trilateral Commission? Halliburton?

Brownie31

If you study the back of a dollar bill closely, you can find images connecting the Free Masons to the waterlogging of balls at Coors Field.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

wags: Even if this is true so what? The ball would affect both teams.

wow. i did not expect this from you, wags.
accepting possible cheating. :eek: :rolleyes:
I didn't say I condone cheating! I just said any altering of the balls would effect both the Rockies and their opponents.

[FatAngel]

I have a question to you guys:
Before last season, I read about an idea to allow the Rockies to carry an extra pitcher on its roster to make up for the disadvantage of playing in the thin air. From what I´ve read, I had the impression that this was even supported by a good portion of insiders, players and coaches.
What do you think about this ?

[Captain Cold Nose]

I have a question to you guys:
Before last season, I read about an idea to allow the Rockies to carry an extra pitcher on its roster to make up for the disadvantage of playing in the thin air. From what I´ve read, I had the impression that this was even supported by a good portion of insiders, players and coaches.
What do you think about this ?
I'm not sure how that would be helpful. If pitchers are struggling because of the environment, an extra pitcher wouldn't change that. It's just another pitcher to give up eight runs a game or whatever it is.

[Brownie31]

If you study the back of a dollar bill closely, you can find images connecting the Free Masons to the waterlogging of balls at Coors Field.

Who knew the Illuminati were Rockies' fans?

Brownie31

[Wade8813]

I'm not sure how that would be helpful. If pitchers are struggling because of the environment, an extra pitcher wouldn't change that. It's just another pitcher to give up eight runs a game or whatever it is. But when pitchers get shelled all the time, they have much higher pitch-counts. Thus, another pitcher could eat up innings for them.

[Captain Cold Nose]

But when pitchers get shelled all the time, they have much higher pitch-counts. Thus, another pitcher could eat up innings for them.
That very well could help, but I'm not sure pitch count and the problems that go with an unusually high count is the culprit. It very well may be a result that stems from the problem, but the point should be to take care of the cause, not an effect.
I work in the Quality department of a large company, and this, ultimately, can be called a Quality issue. While additional head count can certainly help quell certain issues, if the issues themselves are not mostly due to human inefficiency, i.e. pitcher overwork, that's not the area that needs focus.

[Sweet Lou]

Go here to listen to the Dan Patrick Show from Wednesday, August 2. Go to Select Show Segments, Click on Conspiracy Theory from the Drop Down menu, and hit Play.
http://insider.espn.go.com/proxy/proxy.dll/insider/radio/archive?name=dp_podcast&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fpro xy%2fproxy.dll%2finsider%2fradio%2farchive%3fname% 3ddp_podcast
Excerpts from the show:
3-1 4-2 3-1 4-2 1-0 Scores of the last 5 games at Coors.
There have been 4 1-0 games at Coors field since 1993...3 of them have come this season. 935 games in the history of Coors Field, no 1-0 games for the first 846, 4 of them in the last 89 games. 11 shutouts at Coors field this season. Only 38 shutouts in the previous 1000 games played prior to this year.

[sturg1dj]

I wonder if the bulk of fans would care if they messed with the balls so Coors baseballs travel the same as everywhere else?

it would make the players for the Rockies have a better chance of getting in the Hall of Fame later and give the pitcher a chance.

or, they should embrace the place like at the beginning


I always thought they should go for it and have 9 sluggers in the lineup and have the pitching staff be all crafty vets who won't get flustered if they allow a lot of runs. Kenny Rogers types.

[Wade8813]

I always thought they should go for it and have 9 sluggers in the lineup and have the pitching staff be all crafty vets who won't get flustered if they allow a lot of runs. Kenny Rogers types. I've always thought much the same thing. However, you still run into the problem of pitcher work load. The pitcher might not get flustered by giving up all those runs, but it still requires more pitches to get the same number of outs.

[bluezebra]

I have a question to you guys:
Before last season, I read about an idea to allow the Rockies to carry an extra pitcher on its roster to make up for the disadvantage of playing in the thin air. From what I´ve read, I had the impression that this was even supported by a good portion of insiders, players and coaches.
What do you think about this ?

Are you saying that the Rockies may carry a 26-man roster? As for carrying an extra pitcher on the 25-man roster, there is no rule as to the number of pitchers a team may carry.

What difference would an extra pitcher make. Only one may pitch at one time?

By the way, some years ago, the White Sox put baseballs in a freezer overnight to deaden them.

Bob

[west coast orange and black]

wags: Even if this is true so what? The ball would affect both teams.

wow. i did not expect this from you, wags.
accepting possible cheating.

wags: I didn't say I condone cheating! I just said any altering of the balls would effect both the Rockies and their opponents.

"...so what" means to me that the rockies could, unknowingly to the other team, alter the ball. it matters not that both teams would be affected: it is the non-sanctioned altering of the ball that is the question.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

wags: Even if this is true so what? The ball would affect both teams.

wow. i did not expect this from you, wags.
accepting possible cheating.

wags: I didn't say I condone cheating! I just said any altering of the balls would effect both the Rockies and their opponents.

"...so what" means to me that the rockies could, unknowingly to the other team, alter the ball. it matters not that both teams would be affected: it is the non-sanctioned altering of the ball that is the question.
Is there actual evidence other than Cirillo's suspicions? And if it is as obvious as Cirillo suggests why didn't anyone notice in the first four months of this season? :o