A legit shot that Pujols isnt MVP?

[W_Marone]

Do you guys think there is a legit shot that Pujols Doesnt win MVP.

My top five NL Canidates are as follows (in no particular order)

Pujols(AVG:.322 HR:33 RBI:87 OPS:1.129)
Utley(AVG:.327 HR:21 RBI:69 OPS:.956, 30+ game hitting streak and counting)
Howard(AVG:.287 HR:36 RBI:90 OPS:.987)
Beltran(AVG:.285 HR:33 RBI:97 OPS:1.026)
Wright(AVG:.311 HR:22 RBI:81 OPS:.943)

I honestly think that Pujols may not win the MVP this season, but hey that's probably just me.

[Senior skittles]

beltran and wright and reyes,,,well all the mets actually take votes away from each other ( see cardinals of 04) utley and howard wont cause that club isint winning......so its pujols's to lose

[baseball junkie]

Depends on two things, I think. If Utley's streak goes into the 40s, that is going to be hard to ignore. Especially since he's such an all-around fantastic player. I've been watching him since he was at Scranton/Wilkes-Barre and dang he is a fine player. If his streak stops at like 35, all bets are off.

Second consideration is if the Mets go to the World Series, I think MLB might want to sweep all this steriods ugliness of the last few years away by pressuring the BBWAA into picking the fresh-faced star from New York, David Wright, to be baseball's new superstar.

You only have to see Wright for about five minutes to realize how charismatic he is. Pujols and Beltran both have the language barrier. And I hate to think this will change MVP votes but I think we all know there is a major backlash against Latinos in this country going on right now. That could hurt both of them.

Howard isn't well known enough to win, maybe next year.

[W_Marone]

I agree....You can't ignore Chase Utley if he goes high into the 40's or 50's, if he breaks the record, its still a ways away, I think he wins he MVP. I think for Howard to win the MVP I think his numbers have to be outstandingly better than Alberts, I.E. A-rod when he was on the Rangers. I think right now Beltran has the best shot at getting the MVP over Pujols IMO.

[Blackout]

I agree....You can't ignore Chase Utley if he goes high into the 40's or 50's, if he breaks the record, its still a ways away, I think he wins he MVP. I think for Howard to win the MVP I think his numbers have to be outstandingly better than Alberts, I.E. A-rod when he was on the Rangers. I think right now Beltran has the best shot at getting the MVP over Pujols IMO.

chase utleys not going to win crap if the phillies dont make hte playoffs

[flash143817]

Beltran is IMO the only guy that could steal the MVP from Pujols, but Fat Albert is still out in front, although Beltran has been making up major ground recently.

[Astro]

chase utleys not going to win crap if the phillies dont make hte playoffs
Are you the one who picks the MVP or something?

[jpenrod]

1. Chase Utley, if the phillies do not make the playoffs he will not win it. that is the simple fact. His numbers are not awe inspiring enough for the BBWA to go against what they have done in the past. Just look at Derrik Lee last year. Plus one of the other candidate you have listed (a legitimate one) is also on the phillies. Two MVP candidates on the same losing club and you think one is going to win it?

2. Ryan Howard, he is a lot like Andruw Jones last year. He could finish slightly ahead of Albert in HR and RBI but well behind him in BA. Also like Andruw he may not even lead his team in winshares (if you like that sort of thing). Unlike Andruw you can not make a strong case for Howards defensive prowess being a major factor in overtaking Pujols. Like his teammate Utley you could be looking at two candidate on a team that does not make the playoffs and that is not good.

3. Beltran is like Howard in that he has the power numbers, but his average lags. The difference between Beltran and Howard is that Beltrans defense is of the caliber and at a position that could cause voters to overlook his shortcomings in average. Beltran does lead his team in WS. Beltran plays for a team that very well could run away with a division the Braves have dominated for 14 postseasons. What hurts Beltran is he is not the only star on that team and does not stand head and shoulders above the other stars.

4. David Wright is the face of the Mets, but he does not even lead the team in any of the major offensive categories. He will lose as many votes to Beltran as he will win for being the "new star".

Now I will discuss why Pujols is the MVP. He is Second in the League in HR (and is withing striking distance of first), he is 5th in RBI (withing 9 of the lead), he is 9th in runs scored (of the other candidates mentioned he trails only Beltran), he is eigth in average (trailing only Utley by 7 points), first in OBP. He leads the league in WS, and he leads his team by 9. He holds all of these positions despite missing 15 games. His team is in first place despite playing .500 ball without him. Pujols is what the MVP award is suppose to be for.

On that note Baseball Junkie I am not sure how giving the award to Wright would be sweeping the whole steroids thing away. Pujols is the next superstar and is as clean as any of the other "fresh" superstars. I also do not see MLB successfully putting pressure on the BBWA to do anything they do not want to do. for wright to win this award I think a lot of eyebrows would be raised and I do not think that is the message MLB wants to send either.

[yankillaz]

Why is Wright the best candidate the Mets have to offer??? If someone is the MVP in Gotham is going to be Beltran. Who carried the club into giving a definite blow to the pesky Braves last week? Who has the homers, the steals, the BA???

If you don't want to give it to Beltran, don't, so give it to Delgado, who's presence has made the whole team better.

BTW, i have both Beltran and Wright in my Fantasy team, and after Joe Mauer, Beltran has been my MVP by far.

Continue. Pujols is all alone in this race. Players that REALLY stood a chance: Carlos Lee, but they traded him. Lance Berkman, but he got injured. Nomar Garciaparra, dido. Andruw Jones, but the Braves ain't going nowhere. Miguel Cabrera, i think he's the frontrunner to finish behind Pujols, just because his presence has made his team stay alive.

But those Mutts and Phills players...nah.

[Brooklyn]

If you don't want to give it to Beltran, don't, so give it to Delgado, who's presence has made the whole team better.



Delgado is not having a good year (although picking it up as late). Although I agree 100% that is presence in this line-up has made everyone around him better, he has provided more fear than results so far this year. He has had some great hot streaks, but was cold for about a month and a half. that is not the formula for the MVP.

All year Wright was most likely Met to make a run at Albert, but Beltran has been out-of-this-world good recently and has passed Wright. but there are too many stars on the Mets, they'll all take votes from each other.

If the Cards run away with the Central, I think Albert will win. If they don't, Beltran has a legitimate shot. My other issue is that the Cards held their own while Albert was on the DL - they went 8-7, and are 2-1 in other games Pujols has sat out this year. So they have a .552 winning percentage with him and a .556 winning percentage without him. I am NOT saying they are a better team without him as this is a small sample size, but I am saying that the Cards would be in the thick of the division race without him.

[SoxSon]

chase utleys not going to win crap if the phillies dont make hte playoffs


Actually, it could be argued that Chase will win crap if the Phillies don't make the playoffs. It's all about perspective.

[KCGHOST]

The Phillies are getting ready to sink into oblivion after their "white flag" trade with the Yankees, so forget Utley and Howard. This race will come down to Pujols, Beltran and Wright. ESPN's coverage of this could make the difference.

[Brannu]

chase utleys not going to win crap if the phillies dont make the playoffs

I agree.

Pujols is cold right now and so are The Cardinals, which really shows his value to his team. But, there's no one here that believes that this cold stretch will last much longer. As soon as he breaks out of it and gets back to "business as usual" we will be able to start talking triple crown again.

Yes, he can catch Sanchez, Howard and Beltran.

However, if not Pujols, I think the next choice would be Beltran.

[Senior skittles]

ok here!!!
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20041115&content_id=913660&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp

thats the 2004 MVP balloting.......notice pujols third,edmonds forth,and rolen fifth. That is exactly why a met wont win it cause almost every met is gonna gain some votes!!!! Thus taking away from each other.... there is no clear "MVP" on that team so the wirters will all go with diffrent players on that team. Last year Derrek lee had better stats than pujols and jones but yet sense his team was mediocore the best he could finish was third!!!! Thats why ryan howard or chase utley wont win it ( unless the phils make a miraculous comeback and make the playoffs.) There is absolutely no way pujols loses this!!!!!!

[Astro]

ok here!!!
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20041115&content_id=913660&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp

thats the 2004 MVP balloting.......notice pujols third,edmonds forth,and rolen fifth. That is exactly why a met wont win it cause almost every met is gonna gain some votes!!!! Thus taking away from each other.... there is no clear "MVP" on that team so the wirters will all go with diffrent players on that team. Last year Derrek lee had better stats than pujols and jones but yet sense his team was mediocore the best he could finish was third!!!! Thats why ryan howard or chase utley wont win it ( unless the phils make a miraculous comeback and make the playoffs.) There is absolutely no way pujols loses this!!!!!!
Rolen should be considered aswell, since when Pujols as injured for a week or so he hit around .500

Is Pujols even the most valuable player on his team?

[jpenrod]

Rolen should be considered aswell, since when Pujols as injured for a week or so he hit around .500

Is Pujols even the most valuable player on his team?

Is this a joke? Rolen should be considered for a two week period? Did you even read my earlier post?

Lets see if Pujols is MVP on his team:

Stat Team Rank
BA 1
HR 1
RBI 1
R 1
OBP 1
SLG 1
BB 1
WS 1


Rolen is 7 points behind in BA, 9 Runs behind, 19 HR behind, 19 RBI behind, 21 walks behind, 45 points behind on OBP and 9 WS behind. I really do not think there is any dispute that Pujols is the MVP of that team.

[Solair Wright]

It is possible that the MVP can come from a team that suffered from a losing season. Look at Andre Dawson from the 1987 Chicago Cubs. They finished in last, but Dawson's 49 home runs, his career high, were too good to pass up by voters.

[Astro]

Is this a joke? Rolen should be considered for a two week period? Did you even read my earlier post?

Lets see if Pujols is MVP on his team:

Stat Team Rank
BA 1
HR 1
RBI 1
R 1
OBP 1
SLG 1
BB 1
WS 1


Rolen is 7 points behind in BA, 9 Runs behind, 19 HR behind, 19 RBI behind, 21 walks behind, 45 points behind on OBP and 9 WS behind. I really do not think there is any dispute that Pujols is the MVP of that team.
No, didnt read your post...

And MVP is Most VALUABLE Player, not the best HITTING Player

Rolen plays a harder position defensively, plays Gold Glove Defense, puts up great numbers compared to other players at his position and produced well when Pujols was injured....

Can someone get the Cardinal's records when Pujols did not play, and when Rolen did not play

[jpenrod]

No, didnt read your post...

And MVP is Most VALUABLE Player, not the best HITTING Player

Rolen plays a harder position defensively, plays Gold Glove Defense, puts up great numbers compared to other players at his position and produced well when Pujols was injured....

Can someone get the Cardinal's records when Pujols did not play, and when Rolen did not play

You do not have to convince me about best hitting versus most valuable, but when you lead your entire division leading team in every major offensive catergory and lead your team in winshares by 9 (26 to Rolens 17), you are pretty darn valuable. As for the records they are 8-5 without Rolen and 10-8 without Pujols. kind of small sample size to make any kind of judgement about either.

As far as the positional thing there are 5 other 3B with similar offensive stats to Rolen and at least one of those with as many Defensive Win Shares in the NL. Lance Berkman is the only 1B that is close to the same offensive numbers as Pujols and his defense is a little worse (BTW Pujols leads the NL 1B in fielding win shares.)

I am sorry I just do not see any case in which Rolen could seriously be considered more valuable to Pujols. That is not to take anything away from Rolen, but he is not the MVP of that team, No way, No how!

[Brannu]

Can someone get the Cardinal's records when Pujols did not play, and when Rolen did not play

I'm not sure how to come up with that, but The Cardinals were 8-7 when Albert went down earlier this year. Maybe the best measure of how they did without Rolen would be last year ... they won 100 games.

[jpenrod]

I'm not sure how to come up with that, but The Cardinals were 8-7 when Albert went down earlier this year. Maybe the best measure of how they did without Rolen would be last year ... they won 100 games.

They were 8-5 without Rolen in the lineup this year ( I looked game by game.)

[yankillaz]

People forget that Pujols has gotten way better with the Glove as time goes by. The guy didn't win the GG last season because of Lee. Since Lee ain't around this season, it wil be no surprise for me.

MVP...ummm. How many games has Pujols won for the Cards this season. He's second to Big Papi in the Majors right now, just as Andruw Jones was last season with the Braves...plus the BA.

[albertpujols]

No, didnt read your post...

And MVP is Most VALUABLE Player, not the best HITTING Player

Rolen plays a harder position defensively, plays Gold Glove Defense, puts up great numbers compared to other players at his position and produced well when Pujols was injured....

Can someone get the Cardinal's records when Pujols did not play, and when Rolen did not play

If you had a choice, who would you choose?

Exactly. End of Rolen discussion.

[Astro]

If you had a choice, who would you choose?

Exactly. End of Rolen discussion.
Scott Rolen

[Hammerin Hank]

chase utleys not going to win crap if the phillies dont make hte playoffs

Pretty hard to take the opinion of someone who doesn't even know how to use english.

[Hammerin Hank]

It is possible that the MVP can come from a team that suffered from a losing season. Look at Andre Dawson from the 1987 Chicago Cubs. They finished in last, but Dawson's 49 home runs, his career high, were too good to pass up by voters.

Different time era. Does anything work the saem as it did 19 years ago in the MLB?

[Jeff_D]

Although I think Pujols is the best player in the game today, I have to say David Wright would be my choice for MVP

[Senior skittles]

something i never thought of was rolen taking votes away from pujols.......maybe this isint sutch a one sided race after all......

[W_Marone]

Right now I would have to say that Beltran would have the best shot of snagging the MVP from Pujols, but remember the Phils are only 5 1/2 out of the wild card. One can pray right?;)

[geezer]

And today, Beltran belted 3 doubles in a 3-2 win over the Padres, as of today, he will be the NL MVP, because the Cardinals are struggling, they lost to Cincy 10-3, and Pujols went 0-2 in the game.

[holyroman]

Do you guys think there is a legit shot that Pujols Doesnt win MVP.

My top five NL Canidates are as follows (in no particular order)

Pujols(AVG:.322 HR:33 RBI:87 OPS:1.129)
Utley(AVG:.327 HR:21 RBI:69 OPS:.956, 30+ game hitting streak and counting)
Howard(AVG:.287 HR:36 RBI:90 OPS:.987)
Beltran(AVG:.285 HR:33 RBI:97 OPS:1.026)
Wright(AVG:.311 HR:22 RBI:81 OPS:.943)

I honestly think that Pujols may not win the MVP this season, but hey that's probably just me.

I'd like to add Lance Berkman
(AVG:.323 HR:30 RBI:97 OPS:1.043)

any thoughts on his chances?

[W_Marone]

Berkman is undoubtly an outstanding player but for some reason I think he tends to get lost in Houston with that Roger Clemens, Andy Petite, and Roy Oswalt stuff going on. I dont hear much about him like I do the other top MVP canidates.

[Honus Wagner]

utley has a chance if he hits in another 30 straight

[W_Marone]

give me a break, if the Phillies were atop the wildcard you wouldnt be saying he would need to hit another thrity games to win the MVP. He's a solid MVP Canidate. One of the best players in the national league IMO.

[geezer]

give me a break, if the Phillies were atop the wildcard you wouldnt be saying he would need to hit another thrity games to win the MVP. He's a solid MVP Canidate. One of the best players in the national league IMO.

And what about Howard, the last time I checked, he led the NL in Homers and RBI.

[W_Marone]

I know about howard, I was just commenting on the chase has to hit another thrity straight to win MVP.

[Honus Wagner]

I know about howard, I was just commenting on the chase has to hit another thrity straight to win MVP.

actually GG, i was giving props to utley...if he can do something as spectacular as have 2-25+ game hitting streaks, he would be hard to ignore

i just don't see him winning it over other players that are on good teams

do you prefer pat's or geno's?

[STLCards2]

Albert is leading the league in OB%, SLG% and OPS obviously. Despite a 3 week DL stint, he is 3rd in homeruns, 4th in runs scored, and 5th in RBI's. He is still leading the majors in game-winning RBI's, and is leading the NL is batting with RISP. Unlike other seasons, Albert does not have even close to the powerful lineup around him as in years past. The Card lineup can't compare to Philadelphia's or the Mets'. Can any non-St. Louisan even name the Cardinals' #2 hitter? Albert will also win the Gold Glove this year, with Lee hurt. If the Cardinal make the playoffs, Albert will win. If they don't and Houston makes it, I can see Berkman winning. Same with Howard. Wright and Beltran will split votes, most likely.

[yankillaz]

Why people, why???

Utley is going to win an MVP....not this year.
Wright is going to win an MVP...not this year.
Howard will probably win an MVP...hard, because Utley is there.
Beltran will probably win an MVP...this is his best chance.

By Far, the best player in the business is Pujols, and he's got the glove, the bat, the anemic team around him...and still you guys say he isn't going to win. When he gets an April-like September, takes over the BA title, and gets close to both the HR Title (I think Howard is getting this one) and the RBI Title (Well within his reach) i don't wanna hear you guys whinning.

EOS.

[geezer]

Why people, why???

Utley is going to win an MVP....not this year.
Wright is going to win an MVP...not this year.
Howard will probably win an MVP...hard, because Utley is there.
Beltran will probably win an MVP...this is his best chance.

By Far, the best player in the business is Pujols, and he's got the glove, the bat, the anemic team around him...and still you guys say he isn't going to win. When he gets an April-like September, takes over the BA title, and gets close to both the HR Title (I think Howard is getting this one) and the RBI Title (Well within his reach) i don't wanna hear you guys whinning.

EOS.

And the MIT, the Cardinals will reach the playoffs or will contend until the last week of the regular season.

[Skin & Bones]

WinShares, which is a good metric to evaluate players contributions, has both Beltran and Pujols tied at 27. Though it must be taken into account that Pujols missed a bit of time due to injuries.

[flash143817]

WinShares, which is a good metric to evaluate players contributions, has both Beltran and Pujols tied at 27. Though it must be taken into account that Pujols missed a bit of time due to injuries.

So theoretically they should be basically even in the MVP race according to that. If Beltran finishes the season hot, with the Mets being the best team in the NL, then he has a decent shot. Still think Pujols will win it but I'm not writing off Beltran.

Out of curiosity, who is leading the AL in Win Shares this year? Or could you link me to where you are seeing that?

[Skin & Bones]

So theoretically they should be basically even in the MVP race according to that. If Beltran finishes the season hot, with the Mets being the best team in the NL, then he has a decent shot. Still think Pujols will win it but I'm not writing off Beltran.

Out of curiosity, who is leading the AL in Win Shares this year? Or could you link me to where you are seeing that?

Just go to Hardballtimes.com

[BlackJesus22]

With Respect to Pujols and Rolen, who are good candidates, what about jose reyes, does he not deserve consideration? Excellent contact hitter with lots of speed who gets on base and puts pressure on defense/pitchers...Plays Great Defense, steals bases, sets himself up to be knocked in by delgado, Wright, Beltran, and any of those last two are in the same company in their respective rights.

[Blackout]

reyes has too many team mates to beat out

but Pujols is better than them all.

[BlackJesus22]

yeah, i agree, just puttin him up there for consideration, anybody on here play MVP 05....or know of any active forums for it?

[TheJourneyman]

I'll throw this out there.

Beltran could win comeback player of the year if he continues his strong season and there is no indication he won't.

A) If he wins comeback player of year, does that hurt his chances of MVP?

B) On the flip side, if he is such a strong MVP candidate does that hurt his comeback player vote?

C) can he win both.

[geezer]

I'll throw this out there.

Beltran could win comeback player of the year if he continues his strong season and there is no indication he won't.

A) If he wins comeback player of year, does that hurt his chances of MVP?

B) On the flip side, if he is such a strong MVP candidate does that hurt his comeback player vote?

C) can he win both.

I dont think that Beltran missed only 11 games last year, so he doesnt qualify for the Comeback Player award, what about Most Improved Player rather.

[TheJourneyman]

I dont think that Beltran missed only 11 games last year, so he doesnt qualify for the Comeback Player award, what about Most Improved Player rather.

He is on the ballot. I don't think it has anything to do with how many games you missed.

[csh19792001]

Pujols is better than them all.

Pujols is quite arguably the best young player in history, and the best in the game today.

[geezer]

He is on the ballot. I don't think it has anything to do with how many games you missed.

I think it does in part, what about Nomar for the Comeback award.

[TheJourneyman]

I think it does in part, what about Nomar for the Comeback award.

Fine vote for him --- they are BOTH on hte ballot
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/fan_forum/viagra/y2006/index.jsp

[geezer]

Fine vote for him --- they are BOTH on hte ballot
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/fan_forum/viagra/y2006/index.jsp

Cant vote, Void in Puerto Rico, rats.

Anyway, Howard is leading the NL with 41 homers and 106 RBI, he can finish with 50 homers and 140 RBI.

[baseball junkie]

Well Utley is out of the race. Howard should be out of the race too because the Phillies aren't getting anywhere near the playoffs this year -- while Pujols and the Cardinals will probably win their division again.