Awards

[tripledup22]

At this point in the season I think the awards should be

AL

Cy young-Roy Halladay
MVP-Jim Thome(only if the white sox make october)
ROY-Francisco Liriano
Manager-Jim leyland

gold glove- Derek Jeter

Dont feel like looking it up

NL

Cy young-Brandon Webb
MVP-Albert Pujols
ROY-Prince Fielder
Manager-Willie Randolf

Gold glove-Jim Edmonds


There are a lot of gold gloves so I just chose one for each leauge
But you can find out for yourself

[Captain Cold Nose]

At this point in the season I think the awards should be

AL

Cy young-Roy Halladay
MVP-Jim Thome(only if the white sox make october)
ROY-Francisco Liriano
Manager-Jim leyland

gold glove- Derek Jeter

Dont feel like looking it up

NL

Cy young-Brandon Webb
MVP-Albert Pujols
ROY-Prince Fielder
Manager-Willie Randolf

Gold glove-Jim Edmonds


There are a lot of gold gloves so I just chose one for each leauge
But you can find out for yourself
So you feel Jeter is the best defensive player in the entire American League? Of every player, he's the best?

[SamtheBravesFan]

I also think he drinks Woody Paige-Aid when he says that Hallady is the Cy Young Award winner. :coffee

NL:
Cy Young: Brandon Webb, 11 wins, a 2.64 ERA and 121 Ks, all in 160 IP and 28 walks to boot!! I call that well rounded.
MVP: Albert Pujols, who else?
ROY: I don't know... Dan Uggla.
Manager: I'll give this to Bobby Cox if the Braves make the playoffs. If not, then Willie Randolph.

AL:
Cy Young: Francisco Liriano, overall domination
MVP: Jim Thome, having one of the the seasons of his life after one of his worst seasons.
ROY: Francisco Liriano, double whammy :)
Manager: Jim Leyland, his stabilizing force and change of the culture of losing, helping his players have breakout seasons, has made the Tigers an instant powerhouse.

[geezer]

As of today 7-27-2006:

American League:

ROY: Francisco Liriano
Manager of the Year: Jim Leyland (unanimous)
Cy Young: Francisco Liriano
MVP: Jim Thome or David Ortiz

National League:

ROY: Dan Uggla
Manager of the Year: Willie Randolph
Cy Young: Brandon Webb or Tom Glavine
MVP: Albert Pujols (duhhh)

[Blackout]

AL
MVP: Derek Jeter if Yankees make playoffs; Jim Thome if the Yankees miss
Cy: Johan Santana
ROY: Liriano

NL:
MVP: Pujols
Cy: Pedro
ROY: the Florida Marlins

[Erik Bedard]

AL

MVP: Ortiz
Cy: Papeliriano
ROY: Papeliriano
CPY: Bedard (beats out Thome by a close margin)

NL

MVP: Pujols
Cy: Webb
ROY: Uggla
CPY: Nomah

[DodgerBlue8188]

AL
ROY-Verlander
MVP-Thome
CY-Verlander
Coach-Leyland


NL
ROY-Ethier
MVP-Pujols
CY-Webb
Coach-Randolph

[DodgerBlue8188]

AL

MVP: Ortiz
Cy: Papeliriano
ROY: Papeliriano
CPY: Bedard (beats out Thome by a close margin)

NL

MVP: Pujols
Cy: Webb
ROY: Uggla
CPY: ????

Comeback player of the year? That could be Nomar of course he is struggling as of late. I still think if he can end up with a batting average over .330 or maybe even over .300 he could have a shot. But anything over .330 has to be a shoe in.

[baseball junkie]

AL Awards:
Rolaids Relief Award: Jonathan Papelbon
Rookie of the Year: Francisco Liriano
Manager of the Year: Ron Gardenhire
Comeback Player of the Year: Jim Thome
Cy Young: Francisco Liriano
Most Valuable Player: Francisco Liriano

NL Awards
Rolaids Relief Award: Billy Wagner
Rookie of the Year: Andre Ethier
Manager of the Year: Bruce Bochy
Comeback Player of the Year: Nomar Garciaparra
Cy Young: Carlos Zambrano
Most Valuable Player: David Wright

Exegesis: Papelbon obviously has been the best closer in the American League this year. Jim Thome is having a fantastic campaign after an injury riddled 2005. Ron Gardenhire has the Twins in position to knock the defending World Champs out of the AL Wild Card spot and secure a playoff spot for his team for the fourth time in five years -- this seems to have gone largely unnoticed. Francisco Liriano is not only the best rookie in his league, he's also the best pitcher and the only reason the Twins are in the position they are in -- winning 34 of their last 42 games. To me that defines value.

In the National League, Billy Wagner is having the best year on the biggest stage. Andre Ethier is tearing up the NL the way no rookie has since Pujols did in 2001. Nomar Garciaparra finally looks healthy and happy and great again. Bruce Bochy has the Padres ahead in the NL West by 3.5 games. Bochy has done a lot more with a lot less than Willie Randolph -- his only real competitor. So, the nod goes to Bochy. Similarly Carlos Zambrano is putting together an absolute gem of a season on an absolute trainwreck of a team. David Wright for MVP, you just have to watch him play. Watch the Mets play and wonder what it'd be like if they had Edgardo Alfonso playing third to see Wright's value. He's the reason that team is in contention to not just win the division but win it all -- define value again.

[Reed Johnson]

Cy Young: Roy Halladay
Rolaids Releif Award: BJ Ryan

[Jose Reyes]

AL
Cy Young: Liriano
Rookie: Liriano
MVP: Ortiz
Comeback Player: Thome
Manager: Leyland
Rolaids: Papelbon

NL
Cy Young: Zambrano
Rookie: Josh Johnson
MVP: Beltran
Comeback Player: Garciaparra
Manger: Randolph
Rolaids: Wagner

[DodgerBlue8188]

AL Awards:
Rolaids Relief Award: Jonathan Papelbon
Rookie of the Year: Francisco Liriano
Manager of the Year: Ron Gardenhire
Comeback Player of the Year: Jim Thome
Cy Young: Francisco Liriano
Most Valuable Player: Francisco Liriano

NL Awards
Rolaids Relief Award: Billy Wagner
Rookie of the Year: Andre Ethier
Manager of the Year: Bruce Bochy
Comeback Player of the Year: Nomar Garciaparra
Cy Young: Carlos Zambrano
Most Valuable Player: David Wright

Exegesis: Papelbon obviously has been the best closer in the American League this year. Jim Thome is having a fantastic campaign after an injury riddled 2005. Ron Gardenhire has the twins in position to knock the defending World Champs out of the AL Wild Card spot and secure a playoff spot for his team for the fourth time in five years -- this seems to have gone largely unnoticed. Francisco Liriano is not only the best rookie in his league, he's also the best pitcher and the only reason the Twins are in the position they are in -- winning 34 of their last 42 games. To me that defines value.

In the National League, Billy Wagner is having the best year on the biggest stage. Andre Ethier is tearing up the NL the way no rookie has since Pujols did in 2001. Nomar Garciaparra finally look healthy and happy and great again. Bruce Bochy has the Padres ahead in the NL West by 3.5 games. Bochy has done a lot more with a lot less than Willie Randolph -- his only real competitor. So, the nod goes to Bochy. Similarly Carlos Zambrano is putting together an absolute gem of a season on an absolute trainwreck of a team. David Wright for MVP, you just have to watch him play. Watch the Mets play and wonder what it'd be like if they have Edgardo Alfonso playing third to see his value. He's the reason that team is in contention to not just win the division but win it all -- define value again.


I agree if Wright keeps having the season he is having it will be between him and Pujols. You can look at both of them in the situation where what place would there team be in without them. Mets might be worse off without Wright than the Cards with out Pujols. I'd love to see Wright get it beingfrom his hometown.

[tripledup22]

So you feel Jeter is the best defensive player in the entire American League? Of every player, he's the best?


NO of course not But he was just one person i chose there are a lot better people but jeter will still win the one at short

[Captain Cold Nose]

NO of course not But he was just one person i chose there are a lot better people but jeter will still win the one at short
You're probably right.

[Skin & Bones]

Jeter's horrible defensively. There's no way he should win another GoldGlove, it would be a farce. Granted, he's Improved over the years. He went from being arguably the worst defensive SS that ever lived, to below average, but he still isn't elite defensively at all. I'm not doubting his bat, the man can clearly hit, and he should of won the 1999 AL MVP IMO, but he didn't and doesn't deserve any GoldGloves.

[Senor Octobre]

AL...

Rookie - Francisco Liriano
Manager - Jim Leyland
Cy Young - Liriano
MVP - Joe Mauer

NL...

Rookie - Dan Uggla
Manager - Joe Girardi
Cy Young - Brandon Webb
MVP - Albert Pujols

[Senior skittles]

AL...

Rookie - Francisco Liriano
Manager - Jim Leyland
Cy Young - Johan Santana
MVP - vernon wells
CPY- jim thome

NL...

Rookie - Prince Fielder
Manager - Joe Girardi
Cy Young - Chris Carpenter
MVP - Albert Pujols[/QUOTE]
CPY- Scott Rolen

No DH mvp......No Rookie cy young (well maybe).......... anybody could win with that mets lineup so no willie.......no cy young to teams who dont finish with winning records......... Thats exactly what the sports writers are gonna think

[Baseball Guru]

AL Awards:
Rolaids Relief Award: Jonathan Papelbon
Rookie of the Year: Francisco Liriano
Manager of the Year: Jim Leyland
Comeback Player of the Year: Jim Thome
Cy Young: Francisco Liriano
Most Valuable Player: David Ortiz

NL Awards:
Rolaids Relief Award: Trevor Hoffman
Rookie of the Year: Dan Uggla
Manager of the Year: Jerry Narron
Comeback Player of the Year: Nomar Garciaparra
Cy Young: Carlos Zambrano
Most Valuable Player: Albert Pujols

[Baseball Guru]

no cy young to teams who dont finish with winning records......... Thats exactly what the sports writers are gonna think

I don't think the writers look at the Cy Young award winner based on a team with a winning/losing record more than they do a MVP... You just usually see Cy Young award winners on winning teams because WINS are a major stat to the writers when determining a Cy Young winner.... No dominant starter in the NL... Right now Zambrano is 2nd in wins, 1st in K's, 6th in era, 4th in IP....
If he leads the NL in wins, K's and is in the top 5 in era, I dont see why he couldn't win just because he's on a team with a losing record...

[STLCards2]

Zambrano's ERA is also half a run higher than Webb and Carpenter's. A billion people wanted to give the Cy Young to Clemens last year since his ERA was a half-a -run lower than Willis and Carpenter. None of those people better be supporting Zambrano.

Right now I'd go..

AL MVP: Ortiz (until a posstioned player's stats get closer...Mauer, etc.)
AL Cy Young: Liriano
AL ROTY: Liriano
CBPOTY: Thome

NL MVP: Pujols (don't by the Mets are worse without Wright argument. The Mets have a better offense without Wright than the Cardinals have with Pujols. Albert is surrounded by offensive giants such as -Chris Duncan, Aaron Miles, Hector Luna, Yady Molina, So Taguchi, singles hitting David Eckstein, and K king Juan Encarnacion. The other big "sluggers" on the team, Edmonds and Rolen have hit fewer than 30 homeruns combined with Edmonds hitting in the .250's. This is not the Cardinals offense of the past. The Mets are getting more offensive production from every position on the field except for 1st base and maybe right field.)

Cy Young: Webb
ROTY: Uggla
CBPOTY: Garciapara now, but I bet Rolen will have better numbers by the end of the year and will win it. Nomar is slumping and banged up.

[tripledup22]

AL...

Rookie - Francisco Liriano
Manager - Jim Leyland
Cy Young - Liriano
MVP - Joe Mauer

NL...

Rookie - Dan Uggla
Manager - Joe Girardi
Cy Young - Brandon Webb
MVP - Albert Pujols


I agree with your other dicions but joe mauer. He's been awesome but only in batting average and good everywhere else but he hasn't been carrying the team it's francisco liriano and santana he's helped a lot. the MVP right now should go to Jim Thome but Mauer will be up there dont worry

[CanadianKid]

AL Awards:
Rolaids Relief Award: Jonathan Papelbon
Rookie of the Year: Francisco Liriano
Manager of the Year: Jim Leyland
Comeback Player of the Year: Jim Thome
Cy Young: Francisco Liriano
Most Valuable Player: David Ortiz

NL Awards
Rolaids Relief Award: Billy Wagner
Rookie of the Year: Dan Uggla
Manager of the Year: Willie Randolph
Comeback Player of the Year: Nomar Garciaparra
Cy Young: Carlos Zambrano
Most Valuable Player: Albert Pujols

[tigers527]

AL
Rolaids Relief: Todd Jones
MVP: Todd Jones
Cy Young: Todd Jones
Manager: Leyland
Rookie of the Year: Justin Verlander

A Tigers Sweep just like this years World Series!!!!!!

NL
Rolaids Relief: T Hoffman
MVP: A Pujols
Cy Young: T Glavin
Manager: Bobby Cox
Rookie of the Year: D Uggla

[hogwashed]

AL
Rolaids Relief: Todd Jones
MVP: Todd Jones
Cy Young: Todd Jones
Manager: Leyland
Rookie of the Year: Justin Verlander

A Tigers Sweep just like this years World Series!!!!!!

NL
Rolaids Relief: T Hoffman
MVP: A Pujols
Cy Young: T Glavin
Manager: Bobby Cox
Rookie of the Year: D Uggla

I like these picks.

[flash143817]

AL:

CYA - Liriano
ROY - Liriano
MVP - Thome


NL:

CYA - Webb
ROY - Ethier
MVP - Pujols

As far as the NL ROY race, here's some numbers:

Ethier
.344/.396/.532 with an OPS of .928

Uggla
.300/.356/.510 with an OPS of .866

Ethier is clearly the better hitter and probably the best rookie hitter since Pujols.

[Astro]

AL:

CYA - Liriano
ROY - Liriano
MVP - Thome


NL:

CYA - Webb
ROY - Ethier
MVP - Pujols

As far as the NL ROY race, here's some numbers:

Ethier
.344/.396/.532 with an OPS of .928

Uggla
.300/.356/.510 with an OPS of .866

Ethier is clearly the better hitter and probably the best rookie hitter since Pujols.
Ethier only has 218 at-bats... not to mention Uggla is having a better season and has played all year

[Mariano_Rivera]

AL
MVP-Jim Thome/Derek Jeter (depends on how Jeter finishes in the field)
CYA-Roy Halladay (this is a tough one because of the competition, including Liriano, but Halladay takes the cake)
ROY-Liriano (I`m not explaining this one but I`ll admit their is some tough competition, ie-Melky Cabrera, Jonathan Papelbon etc.)
RRA-Jonathan Papelbon (surprisingly BJ Ryan makes an arguement and Mariano is still a master in third but 3 ER is amazing)

[BoofBonser26]

AL

MVP - Ortiz
CY - Liriano (sadly, this will go to Verlander if the Tigers don't fall apart. While Verlander is having a Cy-like season, Liriano is clearly better).
ROY - Liriano

NL

MVP - Pujols
CY - Webb
ROY - ???

[W_Marone]

AL:
CY: Halladay
MVP: Ortiz
ROY: Papelbon
Rolaids Relief: Papelbon

NL:
CY: Pedro
MVP: Pujols
ROY: Ethier
Rolaids Releif: Tom Gordon

[Ploxx]

AL Awards:
Rolaids Relief Award: Jonathan Papelbon
Rookie of the Year: Francisco Liriano
Manager of the Year: Jim Leyland
Comeback Player of the Year: Jim Thome
Cy Young: Johan Santana
Most Valuable Player: David Ortiz

NL Awards:
Rolaids Relief Award: Tom Gordon
Rookie of the Year: Dan Uggla
Manager of the Year: Willie Randolph
Comeback Player of the Year: Jose Valentin
Cy Young: Brandon Webb
Most Valuable Player: Albert Pujols

[wilkerson_rulz-06]

Why don't you think realistically, Liriano will not win the Cy Young, he is not the most dominant pitcher in baseball, sure he has helped the Twins, sure he is what 11-3 with a low ERA and a ton of k's that doesn't mean he'll win it. Unless he carries the Twins to the WS and has a great playoff, he'll win it, but what are those chances with the White Sox, Tigers, Yankees, Blue Jays in the race? Liriano has a better chance to win the ROY, come on, Howard had a great half season last year, he carried the Phils all the way to the last game when they lost the WC by 2 games and still didn't win it. Santana has a better chance to win it, that's the way it is, how many rookie pitchers have won the Cy Young, maybe in the fan's minds, but these people who select the winners are pros, they can see who clearly deserved it. Right now, I say Roy Halladay, Curt Schilling, Jose Contreras and Johan Santana have a better chance, and in the NL, Brandon Webb has the best shot.

Doesn't mean I don't like Liriano, but what are his SERIOUS chances of winning the Cy Young while being overshadowed by his somewhat future-self in Johan Santana?

[flash143817]

Ethier only has 218 at-bats... not to mention Uggla is having a better season and has played all year

Uggla is having a better season with like 70 points lower of OPS???


You can use the AB argument if you want, but Ethier is clearly having the better season over his span of AB's.

[flash143817]

Why don't you think realistically, Liriano will not win the Cy Young, he is not the most dominant pitcher in baseball, sure he has helped the Twins, sure he is what 11-3 with a low ERA and a ton of k's that doesn't mean he'll win it. Unless he carries the Twins to the WS and has a great playoff, he'll win it, but what are those chances with the White Sox, Tigers, Yankees, Blue Jays in the race? Liriano has a better chance to win the ROY, come on, Howard had a great half season last year, he carried the Phils all the way to the last game when they lost the WC by 2 games and still didn't win it. Santana has a better chance to win it, that's the way it is, how many rookie pitchers have won the Cy Young, maybe in the fan's minds, but these people who select the winners are pros, they can see who clearly deserved it. Right now, I say Roy Halladay, Curt Schilling, Jose Contreras and Johan Santana have a better chance, and in the NL, Brandon Webb has the best shot.

Doesn't mean I don't like Liriano, but what are his SERIOUS chances of winning the Cy Young while being overshadowed by his somewhat future-self in Johan Santana?

Liriano might not win the CYA, but he is clearly the best pitcher in MLB right now. I understand that writers are morons and probably won't give it to him, but there is no question that he deserves it.

[Blackout]

anyone who doubts Minnesota has the top 2 starting pitchers in baseball at this moment is crazy

[tigers527]

Could a Cy Young/rookie of the year, lose to MINER?

I know it is more complex then that....still MINER held toe to toe with him, and that game was a loss.

[tigers527]

anyone who doubts Minnesota has the top 2 starting pitchers in baseball at this moment is crazy

CALL ME CRAZY!!!!!!!

Your guy couldn't even beat ZACH MINER...and the Twins jerked with their rotation to NOT DO IT..GO TIGERS

Prediction....Nate Robertson, 7 innings pitched 4R, 3ER, 0 HR.....Santana, 7 innings pitched, 2R, 2ER, 0 HR

Final score 6-4 TIGERS win (this is all my wife, and her voodoo).

[flash143817]

anyone who doubts Minnesota has the top 2 starting pitchers in baseball at this moment is crazy

Absolutely agree. If I was a Minnesota GM, the only players I would trade Santana or Liriano for are themselves. They are so far ahead of the 3rd best pitcher right now. I saw somewhere today that the Twins were 27-4 in games started by Liriano and Santana since Liriano became a starter.



CALL ME CRAZY!!!!!!!

Your guy couldn't even beat ZACH MINER...and the Twins jerked with their rotation to NOT DO IT..GO TIGERS

Prediction....Nate Robertson, 7 innings pitched 4R, 3ER, 0 HR.....Santana, 7 innings pitched, 2R, 2ER, 0 HR

Final score 6-4 TIGERS win (this is all my wife, and her voodoo).

You are the most delusional homer I have ever seen on this site.

[tigers527]

You are the most delusional homer I have ever seen on this site.

You do (or I guess I should say...you should) realize I am mostly being tongue in cheek. However, I would think the best 2 pitchers in MLB right know is a little HOMERISM as well, if you truly think it is Liriano and Santana that are? In all of MLB? If not homerism, at least a little "koolaid".

[Blackout]

liriano went 8 inning and K'd 12

not much else he can do if his team wont give him run support

[Astro]

Uggla is having a better season with like 70 points lower of OPS???


You can use the AB argument if you want, but Ethier is clearly having the better season over his span of AB's.
70 points of OPS isnt that big of a difference, especially with 140 less at bats

His OPS is so much higher because his average is 45 points higher, and a bad week with that few of at-bats would bring his average down 15 or 20 points, brining his OPS down 50 points or so

Uggla has far more doubles, triples, homeruns, RBIs, runs scored, hits, more stolen bases, a better fielding percentage at a harder position, more games played, and was an all-star

Pretty much the only stat you can say Ethier is better in is OPS, and that is misleading due to Ethier's low number of atbats

There is no way Ethier should even be considered for the Rookie of the Year yet, if he is keeping this up when he has, lets say, 400 at bats then ok... but that most likely will not happen

[flash143817]

70 points of OPS isnt that big of a difference, especially with 140 less at bats

His OPS is so much higher because his average is 45 points higher, and a bad week with that few of at-bats would bring his average down 15 or 20 points, brining his OPS down 50 points or so

Uggla has far more doubles, triples, homeruns, RBIs, runs scored, hits, more stolen bases, a better fielding percentage at a harder position, more games played, and was an all-star

Pretty much the only stat you can say Ethier is better in is OPS, and that is misleading due to Ethier's low number of atbats

There is no way Ethier should even be considered for the Rookie of the Year yet, if he is keeping this up when he has, lets say, 400 at bats then ok... but that most likely will not happen

Of course Uggla is going to be better in the totals, but if you look at the totals on a per AB basis, then Ethier makes up those differences. So really those totals mean nothing to me. The one thing I will give Uggla is playing a harder position, but I think Ethier's superior offense makes up those differences. 70 points of OPS is a bigger difference than you are making it out to be. It is roughly the difference between Carlos Beltran (1.002) and Scott Hatteberg (.927).

And if anything, Ethier is just getting better. He is hitting over .400 over the last month. He has shown no signs that he is going to decline as the AB's continue to accumulate. If he can get to 400 AB's, or even maybe 350, at this production level, then he should definitely win ROY.


However, I would think the best 2 pitchers in MLB right know is a little HOMERISM as well, if you truly think it is Liriano and Santana that are? In all of MLB? If not homerism, at least a little "koolaid".

I live far from Minnesota and am definitely not a Twins fan, but I can recognize greatness when I see it. From a statistical standpoint, Liriano and Santana are definitely the two best pitchers in the MLB. Not sure how using objective statistics to make that claim is drinking the Koolaid though. Who would you put ahead of those two as starters?

[redlegsfan21]

AL Awards:
Rolaids Relief Award: Jonathan Papelbon (29 SV, .51 ERA)
Rookie of the Year: Francisco Liriano (He's my CY)
Manager of the Year: Jim Leyland (69-33, best in baseball, DET 2005: 71-91)
Comeback Player of the Year: Jim Thome (2005: .207, 7, 30, 2006: .289, 33, 82)
Cy Young: Francisco Liriano (12-2, 1.96, 137)
Most Valuable Player: David Ortiz (.285, 35, 99)

NL Awards
Rolaids Relief Award: Trevor Hoffman (27 SV, 2.50 ERA)
Rookie of the Year: Dan Uggla (.302, 15, 57)
Manager of the Year: Jerry Narron (55-48, NL WC Leader, CIN 2005: 73-89)
Comeback Player of the Year: Scott Rolen (2005: .235, 5, 28, 2006: .318, 14, 64)
Cy Young: Brandon Webb (11-4, 2.64, 121)
Most Valuable Player: Albert Pujols (.323, 33, 87)

[Astro]

Of course Uggla is going to be better in the totals, but if you look at the totals on a per AB basis, then Ethier makes up those differences. So really those totals mean nothing to me. The one thing I will give Uggla is playing a harder position, but I think Ethier's superior offense makes up those differences. 70 points of OPS is a bigger difference than you are making it out to be. It is roughly the difference between Carlos Beltran (1.002) and Scott Hatteberg (.927).

And if anything, Ethier is just getting better. He is hitting over .400 over the last month. He has shown no signs that he is going to decline as the AB's continue to accumulate. If he can get to 400 AB's, or even maybe 350, at this production level, then he should definitely win ROY.




I live far from Minnesota and am definitely not a Twins fan, but I can recognize greatness when I see it. From a statistical standpoint, Liriano and Santana are definitely the two best pitchers in the MLB. Not sure how using objective statistics to make that claim is drinking the Koolaid though. Who would you put ahead of those two as starters?
Right.... like I said, Uggla is doing better and deserves it more than Ethier... Uggla leads over Ethier in everything but OPS....... and thats because Ethier has had far fewer at-bats....

I'm sure the reason you have Ethier winning has nothing to do with the fact you are a Los Angeles Dodgers fan

And for the record Ethier is batting .368 in July, not over .400 as you stated

[tigers527]

I live far from Minnesota and am definitely not a Twins fan, but I can recognize greatness when I see it. From a statistical standpoint, Liriano and Santana are definitely the two best pitchers in the MLB. Not sure how using objective statistics to make that claim is drinking the Koolaid though. Who would you put ahead of those two as starters?

As long as we're on OBJECTIVE stats, how do you like these ones? 10 of the 12 wins Liriano has are against sub .500 teams. Santana has 8 of his 12 wins against sub .500 teams. Now, I know you have to play who they put in front of you, so I won't hold it too much against them.

Heck if it wasn't for the Royals the Tigers would be 59-32, not quite so good eh?

Who knows those 2 might be the best, it is all opinion though. Schilling and Holliday come to mind as guys I would take in front of them.

[flash143817]

Right.... like I said, Uggla is doing better and deserves it more than Ethier... Uggla leads over Ethier in everything but OPS....... and thats because Ethier has had far fewer at-bats....

I'm sure the reason you have Ethier winning has nothing to do with the fact you are a Los Angeles Dodgers fan

And for the record Ethier is batting .368 in July, not over .400 as you stated

Of course being a Dodger fan is why I am arguing this point so vociferously. But I don't think you can call me a homer when you look at the numbers. Last I checked, Ethier led all rookies in AVG/OBP/SLG so he has a pretty good case IMO. I realize Ethier has had fewer AB's. But as I noted at the end of my post, if Ethier maintains those levels through the end of the season, then he should be an easy ROY choice.

You seem to think he will decline at the end of the year, while I believe he has a chance of maintaining, reason being that as I noted, he is hotter now than he was earlier, so if anything he is improving and not declining. And I heard during yesterday's Dodger broadcast that Ethier was over .400 over the last 31 games spanning a month. If that number is wrong, then blame Vin Scully for giving me bad info. But even if he is .368 as you say, that is still far above the .340+ he is hitting for the season. So my point that he is improving and not declining as the season progresses still stands.

As I stated earlier, I'll give Uggla credit for playing the harder position, and possibly for being given a chance from the start of the season, but I'm not penalizing Ethier for something he had no control over. I think of it as similar to 1959 when Willie McCovey only had 192 AB's but hit .354 and was the unanimous ROY selection.

[Astro]

AL Awards:
Rolaids Relief Award: Jonathan Papelbon
Rookie of the Year: Jered Weaver
Manager of the Year: Jim Leyland
Comeback Player of the Year: Jim Thome
Cy Young: Roy Halladay
Most Valuable Player: Derek Jeter

NL Awards:
Rolaids Relief Award: Trevor Hoffman
Rookie of the Year: Dan Uggla
Manager of the Year: Willie Randolph
Comeback Player of the Year: Scott Rolen
Cy Young: Carlos Zambrano
Most Valuable Player: Albert Pujols

[flash143817]

As long as we're on OBJECTIVE stats, how do you like these ones? 10 of the 12 wins Liriano has are against sub .500 teams. Santana has 8 of his 12 wins against sub .500 teams. Now, I know you have to play who they put in front of you, so I won't hold it too much against them.

Heck if it wasn't for the Royals the Tigers would be 59-32, not quite so good eh?

Who knows those 2 might be the best, it is all opinion though. Schilling and Holliday come to mind as guys I would take in front of them.

While we are pointing out wins vs. sub .500 teams, your guy Verlander has 9 of his 13 against sub-.500 teams himself. He is a pedestrian 4-4 against winning teams. Halladay has 8 of his 13 against losing teams. Schilling is also 8 of 13 vs. losing teams.

Basically all pitchers run up a good portion of their records against inferior teams. You can't use that argument against Liriano and Santana when it is true for basically any pitcher.

The numbers I was talking about are stuff like:

ERA:

Santana - 3.04
Liriano - 1.96 (1st among MLB starters)
Halladay - 3.06
Schilling - 3.60

WHIP:

Santana - 1.01 (2nd among MLB starters)
Liriano - 0.96 (1st among MLB starters)
Halladay - 1.07
Schilling - 1.09

K/9:

Santana - 9.42
Liriano - 10.72 (1st among MLB starters)
Halladay - 5.04
Schilling - 8.12

OPS against:

Santana - .646
Liriano - .536 (1st among MLB starters)
Halladay - .652
Schilling - .694

Basically I could keep going down the line on those stats, but Liriano and Santana come ahead of those two other guys in basically every category besides total wins, although they do top Halladay and Schilling in win% in the case of Liriano.

[yankillaz]

My Awards:

AMERICAN LEAGUE...

MVP: David Ortiz
Cy Young: Roy Halladay
Rookie Of the Year: Francisco Liriano
Rolaids Relief Pitcher: BJ Ryan (Papelbon is going down)
Manager Of the Year: Jim Leyland
GM Of the Year: Dave Drombowski

NATIONAL LEAGUE...

MVP: Albert Pujols
Cy Young: Brandon Webb
Rookie Of the Year: Dan Uggla
Rolaids Relief Pitcher: Trevor Hoffman
Manager Of the Year: Joe Girardi
GM Of the Year: Wayne Krivcky

[yankillaz]

While we are pointing out wins vs. sub .500 teams, your guy Verlander has 9 of his 13 against sub-.500 teams himself. He is a pedestrian 4-4 against winning teams. Halladay has 8 of his 13 against losing teams. Schilling is also 8 of 13 vs. losing teams.

Basically all pitchers run up a good portion of their records against inferior teams. You can't use that argument against Liriano and Santana when it is true for basically any pitcher.

The numbers I was talking about are stuff like:

ERA:

Santana - 3.04
Liriano - 1.96 (1st among MLB starters)
Halladay - 3.06
Schilling - 3.60

WHIP:

Santana - 1.01 (2nd among MLB starters)
Liriano - 0.96 (1st among MLB starters)
Halladay - 1.07
Schilling - 1.09

K/9:

Santana - 9.42
Liriano - 10.72 (1st among MLB starters)
Halladay - 5.04
Schilling - 8.12

OPS against:

Santana - .646
Liriano - .536 (1st among MLB starters)
Halladay - .652
Schilling - .694

Basically I could keep going down the line on those stats, but Liriano and Santana come ahead of those two other guys in basically every category besides total wins, although they do top Halladay and Schilling in win% in the case of Liriano.

Excellent point for this Flash. So who's more valuable for the team? If you were to vote, who you'd pick? Something similar happened in Boston in 2002, and in Atlanta in 1997. Voters didn't quite awarded the best pitcher in those teams, and the winner came from another. In most ballots this will be the picture:

1. Liriano or Santana
2. Halladay
3. Santana or Liriano

And i'm not even considering the ones that will have Halladay as the sole winner. Halladay will win, but is going to be close.

[tigers527]

While we are pointing out wins vs. sub .500 teams, your guy Verlander has 9 of his 13 against sub-.500 teams himself. He is a pedestrian 4-4 against winning teams. Halladay has 8 of his 13 against losing teams. Schilling is also 8 of 13 vs. losing teams.

Basically all pitchers run up a good portion of their records against inferior teams. You can't use that argument against Liriano and Santana when it is true for basically any pitcher.


You might be right on the whole of the 100 or so games played in the season thus far. Perhaps, I am putting too much in past preformance? Halladay being one of the winningest pitchers in the last 5 seasons, and Schilling and his big game preformances.

As to the sub .500 preformances though, odds should state that a starter should pitch about 1/2 their games against sub .500 teams. I know that could vary given 3 game series and spot in the rotation. Let's keep this simple though, and assume 50%. The further away from 50% the more feasting on the weaker teams the pitcher in question is doing.

The guys mentioned
Verlander 69%
Schilling & Halladay 61.5%
Santana 66%
Liriano 83% (that's too high)

I would think somewhere in the 60s would be a reasonable #. That would include Santana, shrugs maybe those 2 are the best (I still have doubts about Liriano though). Hopefully, Bonderman will keep Santana @ 66% tomorrow.

There is also what I usually refer to as the Jack Morris effect. In regards to all the standard numbers kept for a pitchers preformance (ERA., WHIP, K/9 etc.). Jack felt and still feels that many of those "standard" numbers in regards to his career are artificially inflated. He being a fellow that only cared about Wins, would pitch different with the lead then otherwise. Inclined to throwing the ball down the middle and then letting the batter make their 7 of 10 outs. This is why if elected to the HOF he would have the highest ERA. in the modern era of his fellow HOFers. I think Schilling is another of that type of pitcher. Just something to consider, although everyone we have been speaking of has very simular win totals.

[HOOTIE]

Jeter should have 0 Gold Gloves. He's been awful in his career. -118 career FRAA. This year he's -1.

Webb leads all pitchers in VORP this year.

[Baseball Guru]

I think it may be time to start recognizing Carlos Beltran as a legit candidate for the MVP award...

Beltran seems lost in the shuffle with a lot of talk of Reyes and Wright as the top candidates...

Beltran now has 31 hr's (4th in the NL and only 3 back of the leader), 93 rbi's (tied for the NL lead), most 2 out rbi hits in all of baseball....

He has had an AMAZING July!!!

[flash143817]

Excellent point for this Flash. So who's more valuable for the team? If you were to vote, who you'd pick? Something similar happened in Boston in 2002, and in Atlanta in 1997. Voters didn't quite awarded the best pitcher in those teams, and the winner came from another. In most ballots this will be the picture:

1. Liriano or Santana
2. Halladay
3. Santana or Liriano

And i'm not even considering the ones that will have Halladay as the sole winner. Halladay will win, but is going to be close.


Oh I agree. I said earlier in this thread (or maybe a different one) that Liriano probably wouldn't be selected by the writers to win the CYA. But I do think that it is unquestionable that he deserves it. Unfortunately the deserving do not always win. All the stats basically point to Liriano as the best pitcher in baseball and definitely better than Halladay across the board except wins, although Liriano has the higher win%.

I tend to agree with that voting pattern. I think that happened in 1998 and it cost a deserving Kevin Brown a CYA that year. Although I don't think Santana will steal a high enough percentage of #1 votes to make that happen. I'm not even a Twins fan but I think Liriano would be robbed if he continues pitching like this and doesn't win the CYA. Maybe the whole All Star fiasco brought some attention to his name though so that writers will recognize him at the end of the year.

[flash143817]

I think it may be time to start recognizing Carlos Beltran as a legit candidate for the MVP award...

Beltran seems lost in the shuffle with a lot of talk of Reyes and Wright as the top candidates...

Beltran now has 31 hr's (4th in the NL and only 3 back of the leader), 93 rbi's (tied for the NL lead), most 2 out rbi hits in all of baseball....

He has had an AMAZING July!!!


He is definitely a contender. He is having a spectacular season in every phase of the game. I think he deserves to be in the running, but unless Pujols cools down, he won't win it.

[Jose Reyes]

Beltran has surpassed Pujols in RBIs by 7 and is now alone the league leader with 94. He has only 1 less homerun and 1 less total base but more extra base hits than Pujols.

[flash143817]

Beltran has surpassed Pujols in RBIs by 7 and is now alone the league leader with 94. He has only 1 less homerun and 1 less total base but more extra base hits than Pujols.

And he plays CF compared to 1B for Pujols.

On top of that, Beltran is an excellent basestealer/baserunner and Pujols, due to natural slowness of foot just can't match that.