I need pitching tips..badly!

[rwolfe09]

Ok. I am 14 going on 15 and I want to pursue pitching in at my school this coming up year. I have the speed to be a successful pitcher but my control needs touching up (no, I'm not Rick Ankiel bad..it's a little problem) and I sometimes over throw. I throw over the shoulder and my windup needs major help. I also need help warming up because if i dont warm up enough, it hurts after i pitch. If i warm up to where my arm is sorta sore, it feels great to throw 20-25 pitches. I seriously need help before I mess up my arm beyond fixing. Help is GREATLY appreciated. Thanks, Ryan

[Jake Patterson]

I seriously need help before I mess up my arm beyond fixing. Help is GREATLY appreciated. Thanks, Ryan

Ryan, can you post a clip? Difficult to advise without seeing what it is your're doing or not doing.

If you can't provide a clip I would go see a coach. Maybe start with your high school coach.

[rwolfe09]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oj0BVuSTmE

My windup needs alot of tuning.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

hey rwolfe, its kinda hard to analyze since I can't put it in slow motion, but after watching it a couple times...

If I were you I would take just a small step straight back with your left foot. Not to the side like you are. Always good to keep any momentum front to back and back to front.

Don't be afraid to slow things down a little. Take your time.

Looks like you're not dropping and driving with your front leg and "getting over it," probably because you're just kinda lifting your entire leg up, rather than just your knee.

Take a look at a sequence from Huddy.

[CanadianKid]

You don't seem to be getting a big leg kick, your power comes from your legs. The higher your legs comes up the more power you get and less strain is placed on your arm, and don't for get to use your hips as well.

And as mentioned before don't be afraid to slow down your delivery, proper mechanics is key to success.

[Whitesoxnut]

Your follow thru is a mess as well, as it should be cause your all "arm" and your getting no leg kick and hip rotation. I also agree with your windup being to fast and your past the age of the side windup. Look at the video again and see yourself where your follow thru makes you end up, towards 1st base is where it does. Young pitchers often have a hard time accepting how much of the movement begins and ends with the legs. One more bit of advice, if you have a speed gun throw it in the garbage for a few years. And get with a pitching pro who can "hands on" with you.

And be patient! Everything is fixable. During the off season get on the weights, cardio, and stretching. You sound like you have the passion for the game needed to succeed, Good luck to you.

[Mannyortiz06]

it looks like you havent ever spent time with your windup.... , if your just starting pitching at 14 youre going to have alot of work to do , especially if you need to warm up until your arm is sore to only be able to throw 20-25 pitches , go and talk to your high school coach for advice.... he will probabaly be the most accessable person with knowledge of the game you'll be able to find easily

[Chris O'Leary]

Ok. I am 14 going on 15 and I want to pursue pitching in at my school this coming up year. I have the speed to be a successful pitcher but my control needs touching up (no, I'm not Rick Ankiel bad..it's a little problem) and I sometimes over throw. I throw over the shoulder and my windup needs major help. I also need help warming up because if i dont warm up enough, it hurts after i pitch. If i warm up to where my arm is sorta sore, it feels great to throw 20-25 pitches. I seriously need help before I mess up my arm beyond fixing. Help is GREATLY appreciated. Thanks, Ryan

I see a couple of things...

1. I would also prefer that from the wind-up you stepped back rather than to the side. However, since you need work in many other areas, I would suggest that you just focus on going from the Set position for the moment. That will give you less to screw up.

2. Your glove-side arm action is pretty bad. What I would prefer is that you pointed the glove at the target (or slightly to the right of the target) and then pulled the glove into your glove-side pec.

3. You open your hips to soon. You need to stride sideways to the target and only at the last second rotate your foot so that your toe points to the target. Right now your toe points to the target too soon in your stride.

4. It looks to me like your elbow goes well above your shoulder. If so, this could explain some of the soreness you are feeling. Ideally, your elbow should always be slightly below the level of your shoulders.

[jimmiemac]

RWOLFE,

It is up to you! You know you need some help and watching your clip you are correct. Study, study, study and then practice, practice, practice. Get with your coach if possible or someone who has some experience pitching. Is there a good instructor in your area?

Basically you need to smooth everthing out and your on good, consistent mechanics. There are plenty of websites with pitching instruction, many I would suggest you avoid for a variety of reasons (DickMills, SetPro, DrMarshall). The CompletePitcher.com has some basic drills you may want to follow, however nothing beats live instruction by a good instructor.

Good luck to you

[rwolfe09]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6b_WpyX-D0

I got a new video up and Its a better than before.

[Whitesoxnut]

The 2nd video you are using the legs better, are kicking higher, and have some hip rotation, but the sideways windup has to go and your follow thru is still off. Actually your balance doesnt look to good all thru the pitch. Also it appears your hurrying due to the video camera, it would be far easier if we saw 4 or 5 of your pitches. Do you have game footage? Any compuer capable of inputing DV video should have basic edit software that you could then use to cut 4 or 5 pitches together, even slowing them down.

I could try DL'ing the video so I could slow it down in my Editing software.....if you want.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

That is better, especially with your leg kick.

Something to remember.

If you're from the windup, you want to start with both feet pointed toward the catcher. Looks like you're setting up in the stretch, and then you're taking a step back like you're in a windup. When you're to the side like that, your first movement should be to lift your left knee up.

Its tough because you're not on a mound, but really focus on using your legs. On flat ground like that, your front foot should be landing about 4.5 feet from the rubber.

Try this just to see how it feels.

Stand on the rubber with both feet pointed toward the catcher. Take a slow step back with your left foot, even a 45 degree angle will do. When your left foot hits the ground on your step-back, leave it there for two seconds before you bring it forward. During these two seconds, you're focusing on the target, pivoting your right foot to the rubber. I would recommend tapping your right foot a couple/few times as it makes the pivot and while your left foot is still on the ground. Feel that rhythm and take your time. Then pick your left knee up and do what you do. Focus on keeping the front shoulder closed longer.

One thing you might do...seems like you're not on a solid foundation with your back leg. Act like you're going to throw to the plate, but don't. Just see how it feels to bring your left leg up and hold it there, balancing on it.

[Chris O'Leary]

I got a new video up and Its a better than before.

I looked at the new video and stand by my earlier statement that I do not like the action of your Pitching Arm Side arm. At about 17 seconds into the clip there is a clear frame that shows your elbow WELL above the level of your shoulders. I know that Billy Wagner does something like this, but he doesn't do it as much as you do and he has had shoulder problems as a result.

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/ThePitchingMechanic/Images/BillyWagner_2006_001.jpg

If you want to protect your shoulder, then at no point should your elbow move above your shoulder. One way to fix this may be to keep your glove higher. That would tend to keep your back shoulder down.

You also seem to be rushing; your shoulders start rotating well before your PAS forearm is vertical and in the high cocked position. This will also put a lot of strain on your shoulder. I believe that his doing something similar is the root cause of Kerry Wood's recent shoulder problems. You might be able to fix this by breaking your hands sooner.

The above likely explains both your control problems (e.g. because you're rushing) and the pain you feel after throwing (because your elbows move above your shoulders). I assume the pain you feel is largely in your shoulder.

[rwolfe09]

I seem to be having problems with keeping the elbow below the shoulder. And lately, the pain is in the shoulder..you are correct. And I plan on making a real mound or a wooden one soon as possible.

[rwolfe09]

The 2nd video you are using the legs better, are kicking higher, and have some hip rotation, but the sideways windup has to go and your follow thru is still off. Actually your balance doesnt look to good all thru the pitch. Also it appears your hurrying due to the video camera, it would be far easier if we saw 4 or 5 of your pitches. Do you have game footage? Any compuer capable of inputing DV video should have basic edit software that you could then use to cut 4 or 5 pitches together, even slowing them down.

I could try DL'ing the video so I could slow it down in my Editing software.....if you want.

The only thing that I can plug into the computer is the camera which gives me 60 seconds of filming.

[Jake Patterson]

I looked at the new video and stand by my earlier statement that I do not like the action of your Pitching Arm Side arm.

Chris,
Been working with Ryan off line (via email). I sent him several clips as examples that I would be happy to share with you so we have some common ground. Just Email me at pattersonsports@yahoo.com if you're interested.

Unfortunately Ryan lives in an area of NY that doesn't seem to have much coaching resource available to him. I wish I had an hour on the mound with him. I just sent him the pitching skeleton that's been floating around for awhile.

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

I notice that you are wearing an IcyHot patch on your throwing elbow... I suggeset you don't pitch until you get that arm healed up. If you have to wear something like that while you are pitching, it must be pretty bad...

[Whitesoxnut]

The only thing that I can plug into the computer is the camera which gives me 60 seconds of filming.

What program are you capturing video with? USB port or firewire? What kind of camera? Theres really no reason the software should only give you 60 seconds of capture. Are you capturing to a file on your "C" drive specifically there for video capture? Is the system giving you a "frame drop" message? How filled up is your hard-drive?

Pitching-wise I cant really give you better advice then some of the guys here. But one thing I can tell you is "be patient" and keep trying. If it was my kid, and shoulder pain was starting, I wouldn't let him pitch and make him see a doctor. I'm sure the issue here is mechanics, that and it looks like your using to much arm and to little legs/follow thru.

Yeah, I just looked again and that elbow is coming way to high. I'd forget the windup in practice and just go in the stretch or do some throwing drills, visa versa do your windup change drills without pitching. Most of all front leg kick/lifts/hip rotate. I'd really hesitate to try and tackle to many issues at once...................and remember...........Patience:)

[rwolfe09]

I'm uploading through a USB drive from a digital camera.

And the only reason I was wearing the patch thing is because I have no ice packs and that was the only ice type thing I had. Lol.

I have somewhat of the idea with pitching all but the keeping the elbow level with the shoulder, that's my only problem.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

I have somewhat of the idea with pitching all but the keeping the elbow level with the shoulder, that's my only problem.

Its certainly your most serious problem at this moment. If your arm isn't healthy then all bets are off. Gotta take care of that.

[WonderMonkey]

I don't have anything new to add and will also encourage you to go seek someone in person. With the amount of work that you need (and you CAN do it) it is much better to find someone to help. The HS coach can maybe put you in touch with one of his coaches or suggest a local person who can give lessons.

What I typically do with a person such as you is to have you AND your mom or dad (or uncle, neighbor, etc) also attend. I will show you a very basic 5 step motion to start with and some drills to reinforce the steps. Your mom or dad attending will allow you to have another set of eyes while you practice at home. Then, when you come back for the next lesson we keep hammering the 5 basic steps to the pitch and once you start getting that down we add layers to it.

[Chris O'Leary]

I seem to be having problems with keeping the elbow below the shoulder. And lately, the pain is in the shoulder..you are correct.

And people say I don't know what I'm talking about...

[MLB Bound 2008]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6b_WpyX-D0

I got a new video up and Its a better than before.you need some serious work, your mechanics are pretty bad, its not just the shoulder height, theres many more things, but first work on that, then these guys will lead you through the process, it will take a while

[Chris O'Leary]

I seem to be having problems with keeping the elbow below the shoulder.

I think the root cause of the problem is that you are trying to throw too much with your arm and not enough with your body. That's why you're doing all of the funky stuff with your arm.

You have to realize that the real source of a pitcher's power is the muscles of their torso (e.g. their core). This is why a stringbean like Casey Fossum can throw so hard. Look at how his hips are facing the target while his shoulders are still sideways to the target. This stretches the muscles of the torso and enables them to powerfully pull the shoulders around. Also notice how his elbow is just below the level of his shoulders.

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Images/Examples/Example_LargeHipShoulderDifferential_CaseyFossum_0 01.jpg

If you focused on throwing from your core, then you wouldn't need to do so much with your arm.

You might also want to try breaking your hands lower; down at the belt buckle rather than up at the letters. Breaking his hands lower has improved my son's arm action significantly.

[Jake Patterson]

You might also want to try breaking your hands lower; down at the belt buckle rather than up at the letters. Breaking his hands lower has improved my son's arm action significantly.

Chris,
How do you coach the hand set from a wind-uo?

[Chris O'Leary]

How do you coach the hand set from a wind-uo?

I actually prefer that my guys (11Us) go from the Set position all the time.

Going from the Set position is much simpler, therefore there's less opportunity to screw up their timing. Also, I'm not convinced that doing the full wind-up gains them more than it costs them. For one thing, I don't buy the whole momentum thing.

I prefer (and insist with my son at least) that they come to Set with their hands at the belt buckle (not at the letters). They then swing both arms slightly down, out, and then up and into the Ready or high-cocked position. In the case of my son, I have him break his hands low because it reduces the temptation for him to short-arm the ball (to bring the pitching arm and ball from the waist up to his ear rather than down, out, and then up).

Having said all that, I think the same general principle applies; that you should break the hands down at the belt buckle rather than up at the letters.

[Jake Patterson]

I actually prefer that my guys (11Us) go from the Set position all the time.
I agree here. Unfortunately at the HS level you need both...

The reason I asked - Many of the younger players I coach when setting at the belt buckle have a tendency to flair their elbows out. This sometimes cause them to rush the
arm movement resulting in short-arming the pitch...

Realizing of course that each youngster is different

[Chris O'Leary]

I agree here. Unfortunately at the HS level you need both...

The reason I asked - Many of the younger players I coach when setting at the belt buckle have a tendency to flair their elbows out. This sometimes cause them to rush the arm movement resulting in short-arming the pitch

If I'm understanding what you mean by flaring the elbows, this is why I coach the "Out" part. You can't flare the elbows if you're trying to reach as far down and out as you can.

Taking a cue from Mike Marshall, I prefer that pitchers get their pitching arm side hands above their upper arms as soon as possible. This means that I do not teach my guys to keep their fingers on top of the ball as they break their hands. Instead, I prefer that my guys rotate their forearms after breaking their hands so that their palms are facing 3B (for RHP) and they are moving up and into the high cocked position.

The problem with flaring the elbows is that you can end up with the upper arms horizontal and the forearms hanging down beneath them. I believe that this increases the force with which the upper arm externally rotates and can lead to shoulder problems.

[Jake Patterson]

Ryan and others check the following out. I found this on Google.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5337413828536108761&q=pitching

From what I can find Coach Rankine is an amateur instructor concentrating on young baseball (could be wrong here). I went through his series and find it to be helpful. Take a look....

Would be interested in what Chris thinks about it..

[CanadianKid]

Is it true that a RH pitcher should pitch from the right side of the rubber? I've seen some pro's pitch from the left side.

[Whitesoxnut]

For one thing, I don't buy the whole momentum thing.

If a kids momentum is messed up it means hes doing something mechanically wrong. Mostly I see it when a kid, whos otherwise throwing well, starts getting nervous after a few walks, gets to a 2-0 or 3-1 count, and he starts shortarming the ball instead of pitching it, out of fear hes going to throw another ball. He almost looks like hes throwing darts.

He changes his delivery, doesnt use his legs properly, and doesnt follow thru right. When I talk about momentum I am talking about follow thru mostly.

[Hawaii]

Is it true that a RH pitcher should pitch from the right side of the rubber? I've seen some pro's pitch from the left side.

The Tom House school of thought says no--that this is one of the "old beliefs" that is not backed up by high speed photography and computer analysis of elite pitchers. Does that mean it's bad to do it? No. It just means you do not have to do it to be a successful pitcher.

[CanadianKid]

Alright, thanks for the feedback.

[irmobaseball]

Ryan and others check the following out. I found this on Google.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5337413828536108761&q=pitching

From what I can find Coach Rankine is an amateur instructor concentrating on young baseball (could be wrong here). I went through his series and find it to be helpful. Take a look....

Would be interested in what Chris thinks about it..


i have that video its good

[hplant25]

I personaly feel this clip is for the most part spot on. I do not agree with the placement of the glove hand being tucked under the shoulder. your body should go to the glove and end up in the center of the body between the chest and belly button. Also note that the throwing and glove hands should be equel and opposite(what ever the throwing arm is doing the glove hand should be mirrorng the opposite)