Hometown Heroes on MLB.com

[Imapotato]

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/fan_forum/dhl/2006/index.jsp


Laughable

Who here thinks guys like Ty Cobb, Tris Speaker, Nap Lajoie, Cy Young, Duke Snider, Mel Ott won't get an inch of recognition because most fans think ancient hostory was the 50's?

And they don't even have Walter Johnson for the Nationals, nor the Twins...using ex expos instead....c'mon no team in Washington can be said without Walter Johnson's name being mentioned

[cbenson5]

I agree completely. I remember MLB's all century team. Ken Griffer Jr. over Tris Speaker. Honus Wagner wasn't even voted in as a shortstop; he had to be added by the expert panel for oversights. I'm guessing the only players that retired before 1930 the average fan could name would be Ty Cobb and Cy Young. Possibly Wagner.

[Gamingboy]

I agree completely. I remember MLB's all century team. Ken Griffer Jr. over Tris Speaker. Honus Wagner wasn't even voted in as a shortstop; he had to be added by the expert panel for oversights. I'm guessing the only players that retired before 1930 the average fan could name would be Ty Cobb and Cy Young. Possibly Wagner.

There was that one guy though... what was his name...

...

O yeah, Ruth.

He played a bit before 1930.

O... RETIRED before 1930... O, whoops. Sorry, carry on.


I say MLB should start a "History program" to educate the Game's fans, something like requiring short snippets of baseball history being shown in between innings. Or maybe even a nation-wide search for the ultimate Baseball expert, with the finals broadcast live on ESPN.

[Erik Bedard]

Do the Braves have Eddie Mathews?

It says I'm not old enough to vote, so I can't look at who's there.

[Baseball Guru]

Do the Braves have Eddie Mathews?

It says I'm not old enough to vote, so I can't look at who's there.


No, they have Aaron, Chipper, Smoltz, Spahn and Niekro...

[Baseball Guru]

O's
Eddie Murray Jim Palmer Cal Ripken Jr.
Brooks Robinson Frank Robinson

Red Sox
Roger Clemens Jim Rice Ted Williams
Carl Yastrzemski Cy Young

White Sox
Luke Appling Harold Baines Nellie Fox
Minnie Minoso Frank Thomas

Indians
Earl Averill Larry Doby Bob Feller
Nap Lajoie Tris Speaker

Tigers
Ty Cobb Charlie Gehringer Hank Greenberg
Al Kaline Alan Trammell

Royals
George Brett Amos Otis Bret Saberhagen
Mike Sweeney Frank White

Angels
Jim Abbott Don Baylor Rod Carew
Chuck Finley Tim Salmon

Twins
Rod Carew Kent Hrbek Harmon Killebrew
Tony Oliva Kirby Puckett

Yankees
Yogi Berra Joe DiMaggio Lou Gehrig
Mickey Mantle Babe Ruth

A's
Dennis Eckersley Lefty Grove Rickey
Henderson "Catfish" Hunter Reggie Jackson

M's
Jay Buhner Ken Griffey Jr. Edgar Martinez
Jamie Moyer Ichiro Suzuki

Rays
Wade Boggs Carl Crawford Roberto Hernandez
Aubrey Huff Fred McGriff

Rangers
Rusty Greer Ivan Rodriguez Nolan Ryan
Jim Sundberg Mark Teixeira

Jays
Roberto Alomar Joe Carter Tony Fernandez
Pat Hentgen Dave Stieb

D-Backs
Jay Bell Luis Gonzalez Randy Johnson
Todd Stottlemyre Matt Williams

Braves
Hank Aaron Chipper Jones Phil Niekro
John Smoltz Warren Spahn

Cubs
Ernie Banks Ferguson Jenkins Ryne Sandberg
Ron Santo Billy Williams

Reds
Johnny Bench Joe Morgan Tony Perez
Frank Robinson Pete Rose

Rox
Dante Bichette Vinny Castilla Andres Galarraga
Todd Helton Larry Walker

Marlins
Josh Beckett Luis Castillo Jeff Conine
Robb Nen Dontrelle Willis

Stros
Jeff Bagwell Craig Biggio Larry Dierker
Nolan Ryan Jimmy Wynn

Dodgers
Roy Campanella Sandy Koufax Pee Wee Reese
Jackie Robinson Duke Snider

Brewers
Cecil Cooper Rollie Fingers Jim Gantner
Paul Molitor Robin Yount

Mets
John Franco Tug McGraw Mike Piazza
Tom Seaver Darryl Strawberry

Phils
Richie Ashburn Steve Carlton Chuck Klein
Robin Roberts Mike Schmidt

Pirates
Roberto Clemente Ralph Kiner Bill Mazeroski
Willie Stargell Honus Wagner

Cards
Lou Brock Bob Gibson Stan Musial
Albert Pujols Ozzie Smith

Pads
Brian Giles Tony Gwynn Trevor Hoffman
Randy Jones Dave Winfield

Giants
Barry Bonds Juan Marichal Willie Mays
Willie McCovey Mel Ott

Nats/Expos
Gary Carter Livan Hernandez Brian Schneider
Rusty Staub Jose Vidro

[bigtrain]

And they don't even have Walter Johnson for the Nationals, nor the Twins...using ex expos instead....c'mon no team in Washington can be said without Walter Johnson's name being mentioned

I couldn't believe that either. If they did have Walter he would have been a Twin since he played for the franchise that is now the Twins even though Walter most likely will be the greatest ballplayer ever for any DC team.

[efin98]

And they don't even have Walter Johnson for the Nationals, nor the Twins...using ex expos instead....c'mon no team in Washington can be said without Walter Johnson's name being mentioned

Easy, Johnson never played for the current Washington Nationals.

Johnson should have been included with the Twins, whoever created that list is a moron for not adding him in with the other great Minnesota franchise players.

[efin98]

Do the Braves have Eddie Mathews?

It says I'm not old enough to vote, so I can't look at who's there.

No. They have Aaron, Niekro, Smoltz, Spahn, and Jones but no Mathews.


They have Randy Johnson with the Diamondbacks but not with the Mariners- he should be among his other great 90s teammates in Seattle!!!

[Biggtone23]

I started a thread in the Nationals forum telling people to fill in write-in votes for either Tim Raines or Andre Dawson instead of voting for any of the given candidates. I also named a few other more deserving candidates such as Dennis Martinez, Steve Rogers and Tim Wallach over Jose Vidro, Livan Hernandez and Brian Schnieder.

[ivylover]

Do the Braves have Eddie Mathews?

It says I'm not old enough to vote, so I can't look at who's there.
lie about your age then, like me...:o

[Erik Bedard]

lie about your age then, like me...:o

OK, so I did it. I wrote in Eddie Mathews, Eddie Collins, Walter Johnson, and - get this - Tinker-to-Evers-to-Chance.

[mojorisin71]

What?! No Double X for the A's?

[redlegsfan21]

VOTE PETE ROSE. Just to dispise MLB. Anyway, he is a fan favorite in Cincy. My dad allowed me to vote for him and I put Pete Rose as my favorite from Cincinnati, Philadelphia (write-in), and Montreal (write-in).

[Atlanta Braves Freak]

I was surprised when I didn't see Eddie Matthews for the Braves, I was surprised when I saw Brian Schneider for the Nats/Expos. I guess they had to put some players for people who had no idea who Tris Speaker or Walter Johnson are.

[blslivewire]

First of all MLB's list needs a lot of work. No Jose Cruz for Houston.

Secondly, come up with a word other than "hero." Every timeI hear that word misused it reminds me of my favorite peice of artwork:




OK, enough preaching. I'll just cast my vote for Bagwell for here in Houston. Biggio might be more popular, but Bagwell was better.

[cbenson5]

Well, I finally got around to voting. Looks like it lets you vote as many times as you want. I kind of wonder what the point of it is though. I guess they have some ceremony planned to unveil the winners in September.

[DodgerBlue81]

This Hometown Heroes is a waste because the choices are terrible.




White Sox
Luke Appling Harold Baines Nellie Fox
Minnie Minoso Frank Thomas

Of course, no Joe Jackson. :mad:
No Eddie Collins either.


Cards
Lou Brock Bob Gibson Stan Musial
Albert Pujols Ozzie Smith

Uh, Rogers Hornsby????


Giants
Barry Bonds Juan Marichal Willie Mays
Willie McCovey Mel Ott

Where's Christy Mathewson???


Nats/Expos
Gary Carter Livan Hernandez Brian Schneider
Rusty Staub Jose Vidro

LOL, Brian Schneider and Rusty Staub over Vlad Guerrero, Andre Dawson, and Tim Raines.

[iPod]

Seriously fouled up franchise picks in my opinion...

Braves: No Mathews, Smoltz over Maddux.

Cubs: Seems like Sosa should've been in the top 5.

Devil Rays: Boggs is barely a D-Ray, Huff is gone, Crawford's too young to have a legacy. In fact, the D-Rays in general have this problem.

Diamondbacks: Same problem as D-Rays, not enough time in the league to build up a legacy. Aside from Gonzo, everyone spent the majority of their careers elsewhere. Williams is more associated with Giants. Todd Stottlemyre? Are you kidding me?

Mariners: Mr. Mariner nowhere to be found...?

Marlins: With 2 major fire sales in 13 year existence, no good player has spent enough time there to establish a lasting legacy with them. Beckett will spend the majority of his career elsewhere, Willis is still a youngster.

Mets: Seems like Hernandez and Carter should be there. Where in the hell is Gooden?

Nationals: Utter disaster. How many Brian Schneider memories does a Washington DC area baseball fan have?

Padres: Nate Colbert somewhere maybe? Not that big of a deal, but Brian Giles seems kinda weird.

Phillies: Pete Alexander over Klein?

Rangers: Pure numbers would suggest Palmeiro, but if this is supposed to improve baseball's image I guess I understand his exclusion. I don't think Nolan Ryan should be included on two lists (Astros and Rangers).

Red Sox: A lot of names with only 5 slots, but no Nomar or Pedro seems odd.

Reds: Same problem again, Frank Robinson on both Orioles and Reds.

Royals: Probably would've put Quisenberry over Otis.

Twins: Kent Hrbek over all the old Senators seems incredibly strange.

White Sox: In my opinion they got the wrong 2B and SS; Collins and Aparicio over Fox and Appling. I would've liked Schalk over Baines.

[trosmok]

......
Secondly, come up with a word other than "hero." Every time I hear that word misused it reminds me of my favorite peice of artwork:


I'm ever reminded of Will Rogers' when I hear that overused word:
"We can't all be heroes because somebody has to sit on the curb and clap as they go by."

Furthermore, "hometown" more accurately connotes a player that was born and raised in the town he played for, like Pete Rose, rather than say, Marichal, that was born in the D.R., and has never lived in San Francisco except when the Giants were in town.

[iPod]

I agree "Hometown Heroes" is about as awful a name for this game as could have been invented. I think "best all-time by franchise" rather than "best all-time by city played for" is more interesting and meaningful, since it really doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense for Nationals fans to name a guy who pitched 80 years ago for a different franchise their "hometown hero". But if Walter Johnson isn't included on the Twins because he's not a "hometown hero" to Minnesota fans, why are New York Giants, Brooklyn Dodgers, Philadelphia A's, and Milwaukee Braves on the list? Not to mention what you bring up, Trosmok, which is that "Hometown Hero" seems to imply an unbreakable bond with the city itself and not just the franchise, and while a lot of guys on this list fit that description, like Tony Gwynn, a lot of them simply don't.

A really poorly designed promotion, and yet another idiotic move by MLB's history department in my opinion. I don't understand why MLB itself seems so embarrassingly ignorant about its own history.

Bud Selig at the Arlington National Cemetery, talking about Korean War veterans: "It is a profound honor to be at this hallowed resting place to so many American heroes, including baseball's own Abner Doubleday."

http://korea50.army.mil/media/newsletter/38th_1_3.pdf

[efin98]

Nationals: Utter disaster. How many Brian Schneider memories does a Washington DC area baseball fan have?.

They listed all of the people who had any success for longer than a few seasons with the franchise, the other greats from the 80s/early 90s teams made their mark with other teams for much longer than their Expos/Nationals stay.


Red Sox: A lot of names with only 5 slots, but no Nomar or Pedro seems odd

Not to me. Nomar would be lucky to crack the top ten list of Red Sox greats ever. Pedro is easily the third best pitcher in team history but a distant third to the two other pitchers on the list. He would make the top 10 but is not in the top 5.

[Imapotato]

Here's a funny link parody of that 'contest'

http://www.progressiveboink.com/dugout/archive/jon62.html

[iPod]

They listed all of the people who had any success for longer than a few seasons with the franchise, the other greats from the 80s/early 90s teams made their mark with other teams for much longer than their Expos/Nationals stay.


It's a no-win situation with the Nationals, and I realize that, because picking Expos is irrelevant to Washington fans, picking Twins and Rangers complicates all the lists too much, and picking current Nationals is also stupid because their players are mediocre. But pick someone else but Brian freakin' Schneider. Nick Johnson. Tim Wallach. Tim Raines. Someone simply for the sake of making the quality of the players on the list not look so ugly.



Not to me. Nomar would be lucky to crack the top ten list of Red Sox greats ever. Pedro is easily the third best pitcher in team history but a distant third to the two other pitchers on the list. He would make the top 10 but is not in the top 5.

I think the distance between the Rocket and Pedro isn't nearly as much as you make it out to be, and I associate Pedro with the Red Sox a lot more than Clemens, which I think should be worth something. I think I would take Nomar over Rice, who made the list, if I were making a team. I also think I'd take Cronin over either, but again, I do think image and association need to carry a little bit of weight.

Who would be your top 10?

Ted Williams
Carl Yastrzemski
Cy Young
Roger Clemens
Pedro Martinez
Joe Cronin
Bobby Doerr
Wade Boggs
Carlton Fisk
Jim Rice

That's 10, but beyond that I really can't think of anyone at all who was a big-time Red Sox player who is better than Nomar, and like I said, I'd probably take Rice (and Bobby Doerr) after him.

[efin98]

It's a no-win situation with the Nationals, and I realize that, because picking Expos is irrelevant to Washington fans, picking Twins and Rangers complicates all the lists too much, and picking current Nationals is also stupid because their players are mediocre. But pick someone else but Brian freakin' Schneider. Nick Johnson. Tim Wallach. Tim Raines. Someone simply for the sake of making the quality of the players on the list not look so ugly.

I agree, Raines should have been on there in place of him. But I think the White Sox crowd would have a field day with him being listed for them and not for the White Sox...but that's another story.


I think the distance between the Rocket and Pedro isn't nearly as much as you make it out to be, and I associate Pedro with the Red Sox a lot more than Clemens, which I think should be worth something. I think I would take Nomar over Rice, who made the list, if I were making a team. I also think I'd take Cronin over either, but again, I do think image and association need to carry a little bit of weight.

I look at what each did with the Red Sox and what the teams accomplished and see a gap. Each went to the World Series, but Pedro won. Clemens also went to two additional ALCSs with Boston, Pedro one. Three Cy Youngs for Clemens vs. two for Pedro. An MVP for Clemens as well...it adds up to a large gap to me.


Who would be your top 10?(snip)

That's 10, but beyond that I really can't think of anyone at all who was a big-time Red Sox player who is better than Nomar, and like I said, I'd probably take Rice (and Bobby Doerr) after him.

He is one of the best five year guys ever but not one of the top 10 guys. He had alot of potential that was not fully reached due to injuries, after his first five years he simply dropped off. The hype of his first five years doesn't carry over to his next three years...

I'd have him in the top 15 or so, but have guys like Foxx, Grove, Wood, Duffy, Speaker, Ruth ahead of him.

[sturg1dj]

This has probably already been done...but I don't feel like scrolling

its amazing how on one hand MLB has the richest history of any sport (IMO college football being a close 2nd) on the other hand MLB likes to ignore much of it.....I mean just look at the oversights

O's Eddie Murray Jim Palmer Cal Ripken Jr.
Brooks Robinson Frank Robinson IGNORING THE BROWNS ERA (SISLER) but otherwise no complaints
Red Sox
Roger Clemens Jim Rice Ted Williams
Carl Yastrzemski Cy Young a rich history, but I am ok with this one

White Sox
Luke Appling Harold Baines Nellie Fox
Minnie Minoso Frank Thomas you can't have blacksox (even though Pete is on here)
Indians
Earl Averill Larry Doby Bob Feller
Nap Lajoie Tris Speaker This may be the best one
Tigers
Ty Cobb Charlie Gehringer Hank Greenberg
Al Kaline Alan Trammell Trammell because young fans will remember him but you're missing Newhouser, Heilman, Crawford....and a bunch from the '68 team
Royals
George Brett Amos Otis Bret Saberhagen
Mike Sweeney Frank White short history....ok

Angels
Jim Abbott Don Baylor Rod Carew
Chuck Finley Tim Salmon I talked to a fan that said Brian Downing was their greatest ever
Twins
Rod Carew Kent Hrbek Harmon Killebrew
Tony Oliva Kirby Puckett Walter Johnson, Goslin?

Yankees
Yogi Berra Joe DiMaggio Lou Gehrig
Mickey Mantle Babe Ruth haha, no complaints

A's
Dennis Eckersley Lefty Grove Rickey
Henderson "Catfish" Hunter Reggie Jackson Jimmie Foxx???Al Simmons??Grove???
M's
Jay Buhner Ken Griffey Jr. Edgar Martinez
Jamie Moyer Ichiro Suzuki

Rays
Wade Boggs Carl Crawford Roberto Hernandez
Aubrey Huff Fred McGriff haha

Rangers
Rusty Greer Ivan Rodriguez Nolan Ryan
Jim Sundberg Mark Teixeira they're ignoring all of the sluggers of the 90's....you know the steroid guys
Jays
Roberto Alomar Joe Carter Tony Fernandez
Pat Hentgen Dave Stieb

D-Backs
Jay Bell Luis Gonzalez Randy Johnson
Todd Stottlemyre Matt Williams

Braves
Hank Aaron Chipper Jones Phil Niekro
John Smoltz Warren Spahn Ed Mathews?

Cubs
Ernie Banks Ferguson Jenkins Ryne Sandberg
Ron Santo Billy Williams These are good, could be others....but can't complain
Reds
Johnny Bench Joe Morgan Tony Perez
Frank Robinson Pete Rose

Rox
Dante Bichette Vinny Castilla Andres Galarraga
Todd Helton Larry Walker

Marlins
Josh Beckett Luis Castillo Jeff Conine
Robb Nen Dontrelle Willis

Stros
Jeff Bagwell Craig Biggio Larry Dierker
Nolan Ryan Jimmy Wynn

Dodgers
Roy Campanella Sandy Koufax Pee Wee Reese
Jackie Robinson Duke Snider

Brewers
Cecil Cooper Rollie Fingers Jim Gantner
Paul Molitor Robin Yount

Mets
John Franco Tug McGraw Mike Piazza
Tom Seaver Darryl Strawberry

Phils
Richie Ashburn Steve Carlton Chuck Klein
Robin Roberts Mike Schmidt

Pirates
Roberto Clemente Ralph Kiner Bill Mazeroski
Willie Stargell Honus Wagner

Cards
Lou Brock Bob Gibson Stan Musial
Albert Pujols Ozzie Smith

Pads
Brian Giles Tony Gwynn Trevor Hoffman
Randy Jones Dave Winfield

Giants
Barry Bonds Juan Marichal Willie Mays
Willie McCovey Mel Ott I think they had a pitcher or two that were left off
Nats/Expos
Gary Carter Livan Hernandez Brian Schneider
Rusty Staub Jose Vidro TIM RAINES...THE BEST EXPO EVER??




well, maybe I should have made this short and sweet, they should have had a write-in

[iPod]

I agree, Raines should have been on there in place of him. But I think the White Sox crowd would have a field day with him being listed for them and not for the White Sox...but that's another story.


Not sure why... Raines spent more time and had better years with the Expos.



I look at what each did with the Red Sox and what the teams accomplished and see a gap. Each went to the World Series, but Pedro won. Clemens also went to two additional ALCSs with Boston, Pedro one. Three Cy Youngs for Clemens vs. two for Pedro. An MVP for Clemens as well...it adds up to a large gap to me.


Clemens' resume is longer but Pedro at his best is a lot better than Clemens at his best.



He is one of the best five year guys ever but not one of the top 10 guys. He had alot of potential that was not fully reached due to injuries, after his first five years he simply dropped off. The hype of his first five years doesn't carry over to his next three years...

I'd have him in the top 15 or so, but have guys like Foxx, Grove, Wood, Duffy, Speaker, Ruth ahead of him.

Foxx, Grove, Ruth, and probably Speaker, are all more associated with other teams, which as I see it completely disqualifies them from a list like this. Wood was an elite pitcher for only 2, maybe 3 seasons, and in his best year which everyone for some reason loves to drool over, two other pitchers (Walsh and Walter Johnson) finished higher in the MVP voting than he did. Hugh Duffy played for the Boston Beaneaters who became the Braves, not the Red Sox, and anyway I think Hugh Duffy is insanely overrated by a lot of people.

[trosmok]

.......
its amazing how on one hand MLB has the richest history of any sport (IMO college football being a close 2nd) on the other hand MLB likes to ignore much of it.....I mean just look at the oversights..............
well, maybe I should have made this short and sweet, they should have had a write-in

:clapping Well done, sturg1dj, and welcome to the fever. Your insight is remarkably similar to a recent chat I had earlier in the week. A young fan asked me what I thought of the HH poll and voting, and I replied I hoped it helps stimulate the fans of the game to review and delve into the richness you mentioned. He said he was a voracious reader of baseball history, and even though he wasn't yet old enough to drive, he said he biked, bussed, and walked to several libraries in search of more baseball information. I asked him what he thought of the poll, and he said "It stinks like American Idol, only on a smaller scale....and they don't allow write-ins, either." I laughed really hard, and was barely able to ask him if he thought Simon Cowell would make a good Commissioner, and he said that idiot couldn't do any worse than Selig.:laugh

[Da Penguin]

Do the Braves have Eddie Mathews?

It says I'm not old enough to vote, so I can't look at who's there.


I just lied:D

[Sweet Lou]

Mariners: Mr. Mariner nowhere to be found...?
Who is Mr. Mariner?
Actually, I think the problem with this "contest" is that there are some teams that have very little history, or at least lack a particular player that "sums up" the franchise: I mean, the Mariners have it easy: we got Edgar. But who comes to mind when you mention the Devil Rays? They don't deserve a Hometown Hero, they don't really have a Hometown Hero. It just doesn't work for them, or for the Nationals. I think the Dbacks, the Rockies, and the Marlins are in the same boat.

[efin98]

Not sure why... Raines spent more time and had better years with the Expos.

Spent more time with the Expos but is beloved by the White Sox.


Clemens' resume is longer but Pedro at his best is a lot better than Clemens at his best.

Can't ignore his teammates during his heyday. Clemens in the same length of time as Pedro's stint played alongside one already inducted member, one should be player, and two hall of fame caliber guys.

Pedro just has one sure fire and one caliber player....just doesn't approach it.


Foxx, Grove, Ruth, and probably Speaker, are all more associated with other teams, which as I see it completely disqualifies them from a list like this.

Ruth played about two years less than Nomar but was the one of the anchors of the late 1910s dynasty, one of the best pitchers of the first half of the century.

Grove played the same number of years and was one of the driving forces behind the resurection of the franchise in the laste 30.

Foxx played a year less than Nomar but was the best slugger in team history until some guy named Williams rewrote the books. I believe he still holds a few team records.

Speaker played the same amount of years a Nomar and is the best center fielder in team history. Period.

Even if they are best remembered for their accomplishments with other teams their contributions to Red Sox history can't be ignored. They are among the greatest ever to put on a Red Sox jersey and have to be in the top 15 or so players ever.


Wood was an elite pitcher for only 2, maybe 3 seasons, and in his best year which everyone for some reason loves to drool over, two other pitchers (Walsh and Walter Johnson) finished higher in the MVP voting than he did.

The same could be said of Nomar, who had a comparable rise and fall and finally like Wood was traded away to obscurity(well it seemed like that until this year;) ).


Hugh Duffy played for the Boston Beaneaters who became the Braves, not the Red Sox, and anyway I think Hugh Duffy is insanely overrated by a lot of people.

I meant Duffy Lewis(Duffy's cliff's namesake). He was one of the best left fielders the team had, surpass only by the three consecutive greats already mentioned(Williams, Yaz, Rice).

Frankly there's another guy I didn't mention- Hall of Famer Harry Hooper. Another of the greats that I'd put higher than Nomar.

I could go on and on but it might be pointless. You have your opinions, I have mine. I don't think as highly of Nomar as most, I never thought he was as good as he was made out to be...

[Captain Cold Nose]

Spent more time with the Expos but is beloved by the White Sox.




Remember, each team only includes five names. While Chisox fans may love Raines, it would take extreme bias and everything that goes with it to say he accomplished more in Chicago than he did in Montreal, let alone be more worthy of one of five spots for their team than Montreal's.

Other points brought forth.

Joe Jackson did more in an Indians uniform than he did for Chicago. Him not being on the list is not a surprise, Black Sox or not.

Isn't Alvin Davis Mr. Mariner?

[efin98]

Remember, each team only includes five names. While Chisox fans may love Raines, it would take extreme bias and everything that goes with it to say he accomplished more in Chicago than he did in Montreal, let alone be more worthy of one of five spots for their team than Montreal's.

Other points brought forth.

Joe Jackson did more in an Indians uniform than he did for Chicago. Him not being on the list is not a surprise, Black Sox or not.

I'm not disagreeing with that, just saying that there could be an argument for it.

The same could be said for Frank Robinson or Andre Dawson or Carlton Fisk or Gary Carter.

[redban]

I don't understand why Miguel Cabrera isn't on the list for the Marlins.

It can't be because he's too young and hasn't been there long...because Dontrelle Willis is there,and he came up the same year.

Also,looking at this list...

John Franco
Tug McGraw
Mike Piazza
Tom Seaver
Darryl Strawberry

Only the last 3 deserve it.
I am a Mets fan who lives in NY.I can tell you,Franco is hated up here.He was always mediocre,and stuck around too long.During his last years with the mets,he blew A TON of games for them.To think,he was the captain too.He also threw his weight around in the clubhouse.it's been rumored that his friendship with the owners allowed him to voice his opinions in trade deals and was one of the reasons he's stuck around as long as he did.

Tug McGraw........no one cares.

Put in Kieth Hernandez for sure....and then either Gooden,Kranepool,or Carter.

[wamby]

Indians
Earl Averill Larry Doby Bob Feller
Nap Lajoie Tris Speaker



Larry Doby?

I think Tris Speaker has a better claim with the Red Sox than with the Indians.

Where is Lou Boudreau? Lou Boudreau WAS the Indians for 10 years.

Where is Bob Lemon?

Where is Albert Belle?

Where is Jim Thome?

I think even Al Rosen has a better claim than either Doby or Averill.

I think the only picks they got right were Lajoie and Feller.

The Indians ultimate hometown hero was probably Joe Vosmik.

[RuthMayBond]

Games Blown By Braves Bullpen: 13Big deal, my team can do that in a month :grouchy :grouchy :grouchy

[Captain Cold Nose]

I'm not disagreeing with that, just saying that there could be an argument for it.

The same could be said for Frank Robinson or Andre Dawson or Carlton Fisk or Gary Carter.
Absolutely. I would love to see the selection process in determining which five made the list. But, considering the source, how much should this even be taken seriously?

[iPod]

Who is Mr. Mariner?
Actually, I think the problem with this "contest" is that there are some teams that have very little history, or at least lack a particular player that "sums up" the franchise: I mean, the Mariners have it easy: we got Edgar. But who comes to mind when you mention the Devil Rays? They don't deserve a Hometown Hero, they don't really have a Hometown Hero. It just doesn't work for them, or for the Nationals. I think the Dbacks, the Rockies, and the Marlins are in the same boat.

I always thought Alvin Davis was Mr. Mariner, but if a Mariner fan is asking what I'm talking about, I'm starting to have doubts.

[iPod]

Can't ignore his teammates during his heyday. Clemens in the same length of time as Pedro's stint played alongside one already inducted member, one should be player, and two hall of fame caliber guys.

Pedro just has one sure fire and one caliber player....just doesn't approach it.


I don't really understand what you're getting at here.



Ruth played about two years less than Nomar but was the one of the anchors of the late 1910s dynasty, one of the best pitchers of the first half of the century.

Grove played the same number of years and was one of the driving forces behind the resurection of the franchise in the laste 30.

Foxx played a year less than Nomar but was the best slugger in team history until some guy named Williams rewrote the books. I believe he still holds a few team records.

Speaker played the same amount of years a Nomar and is the best center fielder in team history. Period.

Even if they are best remembered for their accomplishments with other teams their contributions to Red Sox history can't be ignored. They are among the greatest ever to put on a Red Sox jersey and have to be in the top 15 or so players ever.


No, you don't ignore their contributions, but wouldn't you feel kind of weird if your "Hometown Hero" was a guy who is much, much more commonly associated with another team? It just doesn't make any logical sense, to me anyway. There should be a reciprocity between the player and the team. Team makes you think of player, player makes you think of team. Lefty Grove makes me think of the Connie Mack A's, not the Red Sox.



The same could be said of Nomar, who had a comparable rise and fall and finally like Wood was traded away to obscurity(well it seemed like that until this year;) ).


We're really just going to have to agree to disagree on Joe Wood here. I really don't understand why people gush about him so much. We're talking about a guy who only threw 200 innings twice, this in an era when 344 innings in 1912 was only 3rd in the league. In those years he was a great pitcher, but in 1912 (again, which people romanticize way too much), he wasn't the best pitcher in the league. His ERA+, 180, was historically good, but still only 93rd all time, and isn't something that other pitchers haven't done. Just 2 years earlier, in 1910, Jack Coombs had an ERA+ of 182 and pitched more innings than Smokey Joe did in 1912. Luis Tiant put up an ERA+ of 184 in 1968, threw 258 innings, and didn't even win the Cy Young award. 3 years after that, in 1971, Wilbur Wood tossed up a 188 ERA+ and pitched 334 innings, and he didn't win the Cy Young award either.

Wood had a great season in 1912. But, as I see it anyway, and keeping in mind he had 2 workhorse seasons and only 5 seasons with even 150 innings, it's not good enough to put him over a shortstop who regularly will hit .320 with 20-30 HR, 100-120 RBI, and around 15 steals.

Alright, that's all I'll say on Joe Wood, who as you can tell is someone I really just feel is overrated. It's not a totally clear issue if you just look at Red Sox contributions, and I'm probably doing a bit of extrapolation on Nomar even though he's not on the team now and extrapolating Nomar's numbers is, one could argue, therefore irrelevant. I do like Nomar more than it seems you do. You can have the last word on Wood/Nomar if you want.



I meant Duffy Lewis(Duffy's cliff's namesake). He was one of the best left fielders the team had, surpass only by the three consecutive greats already mentioned(Williams, Yaz, Rice).


I certainly wouldn't take Lewis, a somewhat above-average hitter, over Nomar, a better hitter and a shortstop. Fearing sounding repetitive I'll just leave it at that.



Frankly there's another guy I didn't mention- Hall of Famer Harry Hooper. Another of the greats that I'd put higher than Nomar.

I could go on and on but it might be pointless. You have your opinions, I have mine. I don't think as highly of Nomar as most, I never thought he was as good as he was made out to be...

Hooper I think is underrated a little bit; not a Hall of Famer caliber player, but in an attempt to inform people he wasn't good enough to get into the Hall, people have overcompensated and not given him credit for being the very, very fine player he actually was. Given a conservative extrapolation out to retirement for Nomar, I think I'd take Nomar but I'm not totally sure. For Red Sox contributions only I'm not sure.