View Full Version : Soft Toss
CoachZee
07-19-2006, 06:29 AM
Does anyone see a value in doing soft toss before a game? I've never been a big fan of it. I don't see it helping the mechanics or the swing. It may help loosen up the muscles but so does hitting off a tee.
Just wondering what others thought about it.
WonderMonkey
07-19-2006, 06:37 AM
I think the only difference in soft-toss and tee work before your game is you also warm up your eyes. Since they have to follow the ball to make contact, etc.
bbjunkie
07-19-2006, 07:01 AM
Before the last few games of my daughter's softball team I set up a net and soft tossed to the girls. I know it is purely anecdotal evidence, but their hitting appeared to improve in those games.
I just picked up one of those Jugs soft toss machines. $200. haven't set it up yet, as it is charging, but will try later today. Just using regular baseballs with it for now, since no Jugs balls came with it..
handyman11
07-20-2006, 11:37 AM
Coach Z .....we prefer using the tee , and some front toss ( with wiffle balls ) , as opposed to doing soft toss .....I've seem some horrible looping swings with soft toss that result in nice hits , in practice ....in the game , you'd never get the same result ...
Hope your team is doing well ...we're in the stretch run ( FAST Nationals in Orlando ) , then we're done ..... made some great progress , with the girls who wanted to get better hitting , like I'm sure you did ... ......also have a few that just want to do the minimum , and just want to throw out their Rocketech bats with their hands , and hope the bat hits the ball ....
Unfotunately , those are the girls whose parents think they are the next coming of Lisa Fernandez !
CoachZee
07-21-2006, 07:23 AM
Coach Z .....we prefer using the tee , and some front toss ( with wiffle balls ) , as opposed to doing soft toss .....I've seem some horrible looping swings with soft toss that result in nice hits , in practice ....in the game , you'd never get the same result ...
Hope your team is doing well ...we're in the stretch run ( FAST Nationals in Orlando ) , then we're done ..... made some great progress , with the girls who wanted to get better hitting , like I'm sure you did ... ......also have a few that just want to do the minimum , and just want to throw out their Rocketech bats with their hands , and hope the bat hits the ball ....
Unfotunately , those are the girls whose parents think they are the next coming of Lisa Fernandez !
I've been using a combination of using Steve's box drill with a smaller bat off the tee and using the rope drill so girls don't throw their hands at the ball. To mix it up, I pitch batting practice with Jugs flexi balls, and have them hit wiffle golf balls. We also practice bunting before every game.
We seem to have 2 teams, a well disciplined, error free team and one that looks like a circus act throwing the ball around, waiting for someone else to make a play..... The good team can hang with the best teams in the area, the other one can look horrible and make you want to pull your hair out.
Jake Patterson
07-21-2006, 07:40 AM
Just wondering what others thought about it.
Being in New England you tend to find a way to use what ever it is you can use indoors. I have found soft toss to be a great indoor hitting drill early in the season. But....
Several years ago I saw my HS team go into a hitting slump that was puzzling as they hit great during practice the evening before. At our next game I found that soft-toss may have been the culprit as the players were tossing to each other into a screen before their on deck trip. Long story short - throwing soft toss improperly before you get on-deck circle can have a negative effect on your at-plate visit. The solution we came up with was to substitute soft toss with a hitting stick. We gave the players a class on how to properly use the stick and the swings at the plate became better.
Like any drill or tool - if improperly used it can detract from the learning process and introduce bad habits.
jsiggy
07-22-2006, 01:36 PM
I'm not a huge fan or anything but I use it and like it. It's not better than the tee - just different. It gives me extra information. Varying the height, depth, and speed of tosses lets me see different things. Some kids can't carry their mechanics from the tee to soft toss.
Jake, I've seen the same thing with kids tossing to each other. Coaches REALLY need to watch this. I watched a whole season of HS kids making terrible tosses to each other in practices to each other and the hitter getting nothing good out of it.
Jake & jsiggy,
Are you talking about soft toss from the side or front toss from an L-screen, on a bucket, and up close?
Jake Patterson
07-22-2006, 03:34 PM
Jake & jsiggy,
Are you talking about soft toss from the side or front toss from an L-screen, on a bucket, and up close?
I feel either applies.... but I am specifically talking about soft-toss into a net - balls coming from the side. Soft toss from the front with the thrower sitting on a bucket can have the same negative effects if the person throwing does it improperly.
jsiggy
07-22-2006, 03:36 PM
Jake & jsiggy,
Are you talking about soft toss from the side or front toss from an L-screen, on a bucket, and up close?
I was talking side toss from a bucket and up close. I call that "soft toss" and anything from the front "front toss"... not sure if that's what others are saying or not.
I use front toss with a little more distance behind a screen too. And prefer it to side toss. (But agree with Jake that bad tosses of any kind are a problem.)
I feel either applies.... but I am specifically talking about soft-toss into a net - balls coming from the side. Soft toss from the front with the thrower sitting on a bucket can have the same negative effects if the person throwing does it improperly.
Jake & jsiggy, I do a lot of front toss w/ my sons. I ask this sincerely. What sort of things would send up flags with you regarding front toss? (How can I screw it up in other words.)
jsiggy
07-22-2006, 03:55 PM
Jake & jsiggy, I do a lot of front toss w/ my sons. I ask this sincerely. What sort of things would send up flags with you regarding front toss? (How can I screw it up in other words.)
Greg, Just to be clear, I like side & front toss and use them both regularly.
Problems I saw were with freshman kids tossing to each other. The tosser obviously plays an important role and these kids didn't understand that. They were just tossing without any regard to location/speed, without waiting for the hitter to get setup, etc. (You'd think any coach would have noticed this and stopped it... but it never happened - same thing occurred for an entire season.) And the kids were acquiring bad habits because of it.
Jake Patterson
07-22-2006, 04:02 PM
Jake, I do a lot of front toss w/ my sons. I ask this sincerely. What sort of things would send up flags with you regarding front toss? (How can I screw it up in other words.)
Because you are typically sitting on a bucket, pitch speed, presentation and pitch frequency are critical.
1. Pitch speed - I use front toss because my arm is wasted. The problem I have is insuring I don't loop the pitches in having them bounce out in front of the plate. This causes the batters to lunge. This negatively affects their timing, seperation, stride, bat angle, etc, etc...
2. Presentation - As in all batting practice we are trying to emulate game like conditions as much as possible. Many coaches, some afraid of getting hit, hide their wind ups (what little there is) behind the net. This is bad because the batter doesn't pick the ball up until it's on its way. The best way to present the ball is to hold it up showing it to the batter and then time the delivery so that is resembles the cycle time they will see in a game. Same thing in a cage using a pitching machine- present the ball up then load.
3. Frequency - I am not an advocate of lots of swing over a short period of time. Some coaches feel batting practice is a timed event and try to throw as many balls as they can. The "Everybody gets a quick bucket" mentality. This, again can have ramifications on a young hitter. I prefer to give them a cycle of 10-15 swings and then rotate them out - less pitches more rotations. You must also allow the players time to reset. This means 1 pitch every 10-15 seconds. At home with my sons, I used the above and then had them step out and relax for thirty seconds or so. My players used to joke about an assistant that I had that liked to rapid fire pitches in, they (respectfully) called him the psycho combat pitching coach from hell.
... 3. Frequency - I am not an advocate of lots of swing over a short period of time. Some coaches feel batting practice is a timed event and try to throw as many balls as they can. The "Everybody gets a quick bucket" mentality. This, again can have ramifications on a young hitter. I prefer to give them a cycle of 10-15 swings and then rotate them out - less pitches more rotations. You must also allow the players time to reset. This means 1 pitch every 10-15 seconds. At home with my sons, I used the above and then had them step out and relax for thirty seconds or so. My players used to joke about an assistant that I had that liked to rapid fire pitches in, they (respectfully) called him the psycho combat pitching coach from hell.
jsiggy and Jake P, thanks for the feedback. I am on the same page. With respect to Frequency, you notice the MLB players take BP in cycles with only a few swings in each cycle. I find my sons produce better and learn more during BP when we cycle or I let them out of the box at will and patiently wait on them.
chd66
07-22-2006, 08:13 PM
Try short tossing from the front behind a 'L' screen. I try to follow a 10 ball rule for each batter. We (9-12 travel ball teams) do this as part of a three station warm-up: 1) tee, 2) hitting stick, and 3) short toss with a coach monitoring each station. We use the small wiffle balls mostly during practice. Not much time or space between games. Soft toss from different angles can be great for visual contact, but you will get some goofy swings.
TrojanSkipper
07-23-2006, 08:31 PM
I'm a big fan of soft toss, but like some others have said, bad soft toss makes me puke. The tosser cannot be at a 90 degree angle, try to get to 45. It shouldn't be a windmill drill, where the batter is just flailing wildly...
Also, don't be a moron like i've seen at Little league parks and throw pebbles for the kids to hit. you hit someone in the eye you'll hurt them very badly, but i've seen coaches do this.