View Full Version : You All In For A Treat
Ohfor
07-13-2006, 03:49 PM
Yes you are.
I've just reviewed some of Steve E's site.
Unbelieveably good.
Nothing like it.....ever.
Imminent.
Remember to change your names again on the way out!
GoDeep
07-13-2006, 07:36 PM
Virg,
The hateful one (ofur) isn't going anywhere... can't argue with anyone on the new site. his joy in life is pretending to be the know-it-all on here. how sad...
Jake Patterson
07-13-2006, 08:00 PM
Yes you are.
I've just reviewed some of Steve E's site.
Unbelieveably good.
Nothing like it.....ever.
Imminent.
Is it available??/ If so where?
swingbuster
07-13-2006, 09:42 PM
Virg,
The hateful one (ofur) isn't going anywhere... can't argue with anyone on the new site. his joy in life is pretending to be the know-it-all on here. how sad...
He has contradicted 1044 of my post. What fun can he have there?
I wonder if they want me to sign in over there and explain X factor to Steve. THey all seem to like to hear about it.
Maybe I will ask Tom to tag along and discuss PCR. Or Nyman PCR-Whip.
THere will be some strategy. They live for the war.
DunninLA
07-13-2006, 11:05 PM
Very good news.
tominct
07-14-2006, 06:15 AM
So....is there a web address, or did Steve just have Ohfor review it for accuracy?
Ohfor
07-14-2006, 07:23 AM
Now they've found a new Cause? ********, it's the same cause with another label...
To Understand This Bitter SOB Click Here (http://www.wristhitter.com/)
Pay attention to the video. That is Virg. No one will buy his hitting theory. So, he's bitter.
Without us'ns (and others) you'd swing like that. And the fact that no one in high levels of baseball swings like that doesn't faze Virg. He doesn't like people telling him how ridiculous that is. Most don't like being told that. But, whether he likes it or not......he is.
Ifubuildit
07-14-2006, 07:36 AM
Nice post. There wouldnt be a bit of venting in there now? Throughout the history of this game there have always been different styles of hitting. Along with that will come those who will always have a strong opinion on what is correct and what every hitter should do with a bat. My personal path has been to consider aspects of all of them.
Was Lau wrong? Was Epstein wrong? How about Williams? Rose, Carew?
Englishbey, Mankin, and Nyman? I think not. They did and continue to have a passion. As do many on this board. We all have opinions and they may not fit into the model of what is a high level swing.
I have enjoyed reading many post on here but I have never enjoyed the confrontational nature of its posters. It is counter productive to my goal and objective. To teach young players how to hit.
I have and continue to use many different things in my lessons that come from all of the above except for maybe Cobb and Nyman. Avoided his site but Steve E did embrace Pauls site for many years and I appreciate what he has accomplished in that study. It does have VALUE. As do all the others. Including many of the posters on this site.
Personally I like what Englishbey does on his videos. I think its outside the box in approach to understanding how the involvement of the muscles of the body create and transfer momentum to the bat and ball. It is logical in nature if you understand motion and movement. That more than anything sold me on learning his method of hitting.
In short, you cannot hit a ball hard unless you know how to engage the muscles of the body in a manner that will reach that objective. My very first baseball coach back in 1962 had a saying I still remember today.
Dont care how you hit it. Just hit it hard. Well, he was wrong. Because I do CARE about how you hit it. It is really up to all of us to sort it out and determine what we think works best but I agree it could be done in a more civil way.
Elliott.
Stealth
07-14-2006, 07:39 AM
Pay attention to the video. That is Virg. No one will buy his hitting theory. So, he's bitter.
Wow - I checked out that link - that is one funny video. I wonder why no one would buy that stuff. LOL!
To Understand This Bitter SOB Click Here (http://www.wristhitter.com/)
Pay attention to the video. That is Virg. No one will buy his hitting theory. So, he's bitter.
Without us'ns (and others) you'd swing like that. And the fact that no one in high levels of baseball swings like that doesn't faze Virg. He doesn't like people telling him how ridiculous that is. Most don't like being told that. But, whether he likes it or not......he is.
Holy S!!!! That clip was funny :crazy
To Understand This Bitter SOB Click Here
Pay attention to the video. That is Virg. No one will buy his hitting theory. So, he's bitter.
Without us'ns (and others) you'd swing like that. And the fact that no one in high levels of baseball swings like that doesn't faze Virg. He doesn't like people telling him how ridiculous that is
The swing you see there is known by all know-it-alls as 'impossible' which is the main reason it is there. I don't push it there or anywhere else. The swing you see there is not quite two-handed, but it works okay and often.
If the twerps read the site they'd know I don't push wristhitting. If they understood anything whatsoever they'd see that I've for YEARS carefully avoided mixing methods; mine with others especially because I know the pitfalls they remain blind to. Or even suggesting I have a 'theory', except that Footwork decides the possibilities 'upstairs'. A theory is an unproven idea yet stupid-asses hereabouts convince themselves they have batting "theories", and that they are TRUE.
You K-I-A know homer contact without a clue on where to start, which is about all I get into.. and you barely do... and you never noticed; setting up, rythm, timing, tension, awareness. Have always tried to avoid tinkering in a rotational swing: sophisticared overeducated, theory- saturated longwinded knowitalls manage to miss that. Just blow off the details cause your latest theory (or mantra) takes care of EVERYthing.
Bitter, yeah. STILL Bitter about ignorant noisy knowitalls ruining Dave's site for those kids and their advisors, with that phony concern at the very same time for kids you won't try communicating with. Busted something you can't replace. Damned right I'm bitter over that.
Just don't forget to change your name again like you always do on the way out, and remember to tell hungry kids to read all the claptrap and buy something and they'll be okay. Let them eat cake!
The swing you see there is known by all know-it-alls as 'impossible' which is the main reason it is there. I don't push it there or anywhere else. The swing you see there is not quite two-handed, but it works okay and often.
If the twerps read the site they'd know I don't push wristhitting. If they understood anything whatsoever they'd see that I've for YEARS carefully avoided mixing methods; mine with others especially because I know the pitfalls they remain blind to. Or even suggesting I have a 'theory', except that Footwork decides the possibilities 'upstairs'. Stupid-asses (I can think of a few around here) convince themselves they have batting theories?
You K-I-A know homer contact without a clue on where to start, which is about all I get into.. and you never noticed; setting up, rythm, timing, tension, awareness. Have always tried to avoid tinkering in a rotational swing: sophisticared overeducated, theory- saturated longwinded knowitalls manage to miss that.
Bitter, yeah. STILL Bitter about ignorant noisy knowitalls ruining Dave's site for those kids and their advisors, with all your phony concern at the very same time for kids you won't try communicating with. Busted something you can't replace. Damned right I'm bitter over that.
Just don't forget to change your name again on the way out, and remember to tell hungry kids to read all the claptrap and buy something and they'll be okay. Let them eat cake!
Sorry, Virg, but your methods wouldn't hold a candle to Steve's.
Stealth
07-14-2006, 08:58 AM
The swing you see there is not quite two-handed, but it works okay and often.
Virg - just STOP right now. That swing will NEVER work. You have zero credibility. Anyone going to your site with an ounce of knowledge on hitting wouldn't even spend 1 minute reading anything you say after seeing that swing on the main page. That is laughable.
Sorry, Virg, but your methods wouldn't hold a candle to Steve's.
Today 09:46 AM
That's just what I'm trying to say, comm. Get over there and hold that candle for Steve just like you did for jack, paul, and mike. candles is candles, they all burn out
That's just what I'm trying to say, comm. Get over there and hold that candle for Steve just like you did for jack, paul, and mike. candles is candles, they all burn out
Virg, that swing on your website is very similar to that of Cobb, Sistler, Lapjouie.... However, those times are well over - and changing. I have yet to see a MJ'er, on the active-roster, utilise such an approach. I can understand your dislike the hitting smark's on this website, and beyond. But nowadays, athletes have to perform at there highest bidder.
ssarge
07-14-2006, 09:17 AM
Buy, have you got it wrong, Virg. And I don't mean what you believe about the swing, and your video clip. As Mark indicates below, yours deserves to be evaluated just like any other opinion out there. And folks will form their conclusions. Personally, I have read EVERY WORD on your site, and would have bought your book if it were still available. I buy everything, then evaluate it.
It is part of my strategy for world domination through hitting. . .
Actually, it is part of my strategy to invest thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours in order to better help kids to become hitters. What a dick I am.
Bitter, yeah. STILL Bitter about ignorant noisy knowitalls ruining Dave's site for those kids and their advisors, with all your phony concern at the very same time for kids you won't try communicating with. Busted something you can't replace. Damned right I'm bitter over that.
Don't know about anyone else. I never saw Hudgen's site until a couple of years ago. What it was then was an advertisement for about 1 zillion volume set of DVDs - expensive - which in my opinion would insure a kid would NEVER be a high level hitter. Hands to the ball in a straight line crap that is hugely damaging. If people were criticizing that several years ago, more power to them. If they saved ONE kid from going down that path - meaning ONE kid still had a chance - great.
As for not communicating w/ kids - or working w/ kids, or caring about kids - that is quite an accusation.
Ofer gets criticized a lot here for being kind of brusque, and for having a tolerance level below zero against what he considers as BS. Perhaps his communication style isn't for everyone. But it might be illustrative to take a look back at maybe the last 100 kids who have posted a clip on this site asking for advice. And see who ALWAYS gives it. And then make a judgment about the quality of that advice. It is always individualized, detailed, and. . .well, RIGHT.
You;ll also notice he has a heart for the kids who AREN'T bury-the-needle athletes who won the sperm lottery. You know, the 99.9% who have no chance other than to work their asses off and pursue near perfect mechanics. Which is what he advises.
Others that I presume are included in your extraordinarily broad-brushed criticisms give up HUNDREDS of hours of their time working w/ kids. For free. And I don't mean just on the internet. I mean actually working w/ kids and teaching them to hit. Gaining experience in the field that shapes their opinions here. Learning what really does work, and what doesn't. Learning first hand - often w/ their own kids - how to fix common problems w/out unintended consequences. Learning what tools work to enforce principles, and what tools don;t work at all. Understanding how to communicate w/ kids. Posting clips showing progress to back up theory.
Unlike you, I believe such people are a credit to the internet, and to the hitting community.
I will cite the further example of female FP softball. Which has had an absolute REVOLUTION in hitting mechanics in the past 3 years. This revolution is becoming universal. It has happened at the National team level, and in colleges across the country. It is most seen at the younger levels of Club ball. Thousands of girls are now being taught / eagerly learning to hit by emulating the MLB swing. Hard as it may be for you to believe, this is a huge improvement on the mechanics that were UNIVERSALLY taught to female hitters as little as 3 years ago. Taught by nice guys who thought that linear swings down to the ball were the only way to go for girls. Who I presume were using a model of guys like Hudgens who insisted that was the way for GUYS to swing, too, despite overwhelming video evidence to the contrary.
And today, there are thousands of girls who can actually hit.
And a HUGE influence on that groundswell has been some of the people on this board - Mark, Steve, Ofer, Fungo, many others, even Tom, before he went insane (LOL), who were out in the community taking huge critcism and being absolutely reviled as they evangelized the MLB swing for female hitters. The vitriol was so strong that I thought people were going to take out a contract on some oif these guys' lives. But they stayed the course, and collectively, were hugely instrumental in literally changing a sport.
And no, I am NOT overstating this. The influence of these boards in California - the hotbed of softball - almost can't be overstated. The readership, plus the trickle down effect of that readership, is enormous.
I think you are WAY off base. You're entitled to your professed bitterness, obviously, and certainly to your opinion.
Me too.
Scott
BTW, the belief that guys are simply stooges for Steve, or lemmings, or whatever it is that Virg is professing ignores reality. Guys like Ofer do NOT need a guru to which to cling. If Steve says something Ofer disagrees with, he will say so. If you think someone like Hanson or Fungo is going to blindly drink cool aid - for ANY reason - then you need to go back and examine their past postings. These are guys who question EVERYTHING. But unlike those who are cynical and jaded, are willing to start ACCEPTING when something works. For that matter, there are a couple of things I disagree w/ Steve about, and he knows it. And I'm probably wrong, but so far, the evidence I see convinces me I'm not. When the evidence changes, so will I.
The thing is, Steve is actually out barnstorming the country, working w/ kids and instructors, AND GETTING RESULTS which stand the test of time.
The REALLY pig-headed position is to ignore that. Calling attention to it is laudable, not contemptible.
Mark H
07-14-2006, 09:23 AM
I think everyone should be encouraged to check Virg's site. As always, compare anything anyone says to slow motion video of the best in the world. Let that be your truth detector and decide for yourself.
As far as Hudgen's site, well, again, compare to MLB hitters.
ssarge
07-14-2006, 09:54 AM
That's just what I'm trying to say, comm. Get over there and hold that candle for Steve just like you did for jack, paul, and mike. candles is candles, they all burn out
Which is probably why you are advocating what worked for LaJoie when he hit .424, instead of whatever worked for Hugh Duffy when he hit .438.
Sarcasm aside, to NOT embrace improved approaches and whatever is actually working in the field is to be rooted in the past. I happen to think that Steve's approach is the best available. That ain't hero worship. Just my assessment of reality. The guy is a friend, but that came about after I embraced his approach. If something better comes along, I WILL embrace it. That will not disenfranchise me w/ Steve, first because he isn't that kind of guy. More importantly, because if something better comes along, STEVE will learn from it and incorporate it. He IS that kind of guy. He still spends dozens of hours every week studying, trying to figure out how better to teach kids to hit.
Others - who you maintain were abandoned by me and people like me - stopped doing that, and the hitting world passed them by.
Scott
Jake Patterson
07-14-2006, 10:07 AM
To Understand This Bitter SOB Click Here (http://www.wristhitter.com/)
Without us'ns (and others) you'd swing like that. And the fact that no one in high levels of baseball swings like that doesn't faze Virg. He doesn't like people telling him how ridiculous that is. Most don't like being told that. But, whether he likes it or not......he is.
We had a wrist-hitting coach here. Without my knowledge the Wrist-hitting coach convinced the father of one of my best hitters that this was the best thing since slice bread and he convinced his son to train with him during the off-season. This wrist-hitting BS took one of my best hitters and made him mediocre at best. It took a full season to get him back. The result??? A kid who in his Junior year had a shot at college ball hitting .220 during his senior year (no one looks at a .220 hitter), a bunch of other local kids all messed up and the Wrist-hitting coach out of business.... What a waste....
Jake,
What coach would change much at all about a functioning hitter, except for one like the gurus around here who know the way to the Promised Land? Like some rotaters around here.
I took a kid (scrawny) who was hitless all his life including that Spring, got him to .300+ in the Legion schedule. He hoisted Himself to DH the next HS season at nearly .500.
All I ever converted is lost causes and hopeless cases from the rotational free-for-all.
The rotaters, I teach rythm, timing, contact etc with attention to patching holes in the swing. Holes rotational gurus have no clue about but 'seam patterns, lay off the curve, on 1st pitch fastball' and other standard guesswork.
Why is it that knowitalls can't read?
Nice post. There wouldnt be a bit of venting in there now? Throughout the history of this game there have always been different styles of hitting. Along with that will come those who will always have a strong opinion on what is correct and what every hitter should do with a bat. My personal path has been to consider aspects of all of them.
builder, yeah venting having picked time and place.
But aspects of that swing clip are not to be separated from that method, nor added piecemeal to any other. It's a weightshift/ frontleg sequence that niether accepts nor transfers parts with rotational method so don't fight it. (and where else can you get insider stuff like that for free)
Pay attention to the video. That is Virg. No one will buy his hitting theory. So, he's bitter.
Wow - I checked out that link - that is one funny video. I wonder why no one would buy that stuff. LOL!
I agree it's 'one funny swing' alongside rotater swings with incompatible parts. Another kind of language incompatible in terms of rotation - and visa-versa. But you have seen something like it before, many times, and as usual with knowitalls translated by imposing your preconceived notions upon it.
WonderMonkey
07-14-2006, 11:10 AM
Yes you are.
I've just reviewed some of Steve E's site.
Unbelieveably good.
Nothing like it.....ever.
Imminent.
So who is Steve E? And how about a link to his site?
WonderMonkey
07-14-2006, 11:20 AM
So who is Steve E? And how about a link to his site?
Steve Englishbey?
Buy, have you got it wrong, Virg. And I don't mean what you believe about the swing, and your video clip.
...... and so on until......
The REALLY pig-headed position is to ignore that. Calling attention to it is laudable, not contemptible.
Thanks Steve, that's an unexpected civilized response. Here's an insight about that clip/ swing:
as I pieced together a new approach, realizing the first pieces were 'wrong' although they did help plenty, and progress wouldn't come using the standard wisdom...
because that 'wrong stuff' (per TWilliams) was working so far, further details and finish incorporated more that TW had 'forbidden'. And it worked great in a tough setting. It was a complete compatible package.
What that swing is is a composite of TW's taboos, in good working order. What it did was bat 500+ against the toughest in a 120 setting, including some with credentials. Yeah, your buddies got it right; I'm doing it all wrong. But it works. You're right about early fps coaching, it was junk thrown together by Men who'd not hit much outside of the office picnic.
Now, who would TW argue hitting with, who would reporters watch and hear, not you or me or anyone around here. Check out who was around in the Fifties and Sixties, who was still alive. ("too old, from another time, another milieu") Go ahead kid yourself if you dare.
Old and young guys always have picked and prodded, likely always will.
hiddengem
07-14-2006, 11:34 AM
To Understand This Bitter SOB Click Here (http://www.wristhitter.com/)
Pay attention to the video. That is Virg. No one will buy his hitting theory. So, he's bitter.
Without us'ns (and others) you'd swing like that. And the fact that no one in high levels of baseball swings like that doesn't faze Virg. He doesn't like people telling him how ridiculous that is. Most don't like being told that. But, whether he likes it or not......he is.
Gotta admit, that is pretty ugly.
Mark H
07-14-2006, 11:34 AM
I agree it's 'one funny swing' alongside rotater swings with incompatible parts. Another kind of language incompatible in terms of rotation - and visa-versa. But you have seen something like it before, many times, and as usual with knowitalls translated by imposing your preconceived notions upon it.
You disagree. Wonderful. Educate us.
nervous
07-14-2006, 03:23 PM
Please list the web address. Thanks. Anxious to see of course, that's why I'm NNEERRRVVVOOUUSS !
Mark H
07-14-2006, 03:41 PM
You're way beyond help
I've got to give Kharma and the Marshallites credit. They get lots of heat, but at least they stand their ground and say their piece. Can you at least give us a game swing clip of a high level practitioner of your beliefs?
What am I up against then? Clips of MLBers using swings you claim as yours? What's an acceptably high level?
And what do I care? I didn't walk in selling it, just talking back to wiseass knowitalls taking potshots... who also routinely override simple set-up advice... and have ignored offers of proof for such pointers. Waste of time tending that fan.
chesspirate
07-14-2006, 04:18 PM
What am I up against then? Clips of MLBers using swings you claim as yours?
you are confused, nobody ever claimed MLB swings as thier own. Only that all information should be put up against what MLB swings actually do.
What's an acceptably high level?
For what specifically? If teaching how to swing a bat the best way possible, i'd say why accept any less than the MLB'rs?
... and have ignored offers of proof for such pointers. Waste of time manning that fan.
Unless i can't read, or you can't, many have asked you to offer proof of your 'pointers'. Lay it out there, proof though consists of video of MLB'rs doing it, and not just one acception to the rule, but something that is generally used by all, there aren't any 100% of the time rules outside of the basic PCR, but generally good hitters share the same traits.
So, give us your proof, make your position and defend it. That is what we are all here for. To either have a position and defend it, to learn from defended positions, or sit back and watch the cross-fire.
Mark H
07-14-2006, 04:32 PM
How about we start with a game swing at any level using your beliefs demostrating a four frame swing. Or five frames if that's not available.
PullFactor
07-14-2006, 05:22 PM
You're way beyond help
Sorry Virg, but honestly, no kid deserves to be taught the swing you believe in. I was a victim of coaches like yourself for much of my little league time - the only reason I am where I am right now is because of my throwing, fielding, and lucky hits using the flawed system my coaches pushed but everyone else realized was odd. And in order to complete at this level, I'm forced to relearn my swing to what I could have been taught earlier.
Stealth
07-14-2006, 05:25 PM
If it was April 1 I would feel much better Virg - please tell me you are kidding............PLEASE!
chesspirate;
Unless i can't read, or you can't, many have asked you to offer proof of your 'pointers'. [/QUOTE)
Made two offers; no takers. Institutional blindness or reading disabilities. Have there really been requests?
[QUOTE]Lay it out there, proof though consists of video of MLB'rs doing it,
You can't even prove to major leaguers or their coaches what you say they do and make it stick. You're too far beyond the curve for me to tangle with.
chesspirate
07-14-2006, 06:34 PM
You can't even prove to major leaguers or their coaches what you say they do and make it stick. You're too far beyond the curve for me to tangle with.
HUH??? That's not the point, it is pretty much accepted fact that MLB players themselves don't really know what they are doing. Been debated and discussed at length.
Once agian, i gave an oportunity for you to prove your point or at least establish a position and you instead (poorly) brought up MLB'rs and thier swing thoughts with thier coaches.
Okay Virg, last chance for me here, can you prove to major leaguers or thier coaches what you say and do and make it stick.??
And since you can't either, what is your point? C'mon.
Mark H
07-14-2006, 06:44 PM
You got a clip or not?
Jake Patterson
07-14-2006, 06:53 PM
Elliot, great comment...
I have enjoyed reading many post on here but I have never enjoyed the confrontational nature of its posters. It is counter productive to my goal and objective. To teach young players how to hit.
While I have also learned a great deal on this site I am constantly disapointed with how fast the confrontational approach shuts down those asking for help, especially the kids. There is so much potential here to teach if everyone could just put the egos aside. There's an old Lebanese saying that goes:
"The teacher, if indeed wise, does not bid you to enter the house of their wisdom, but leads you to the threshold of your own mind."
Jake Patterson
07-14-2006, 06:55 PM
... the only reason I am where I am right now...
Where are you now?
You got a clip or not?
No, but wouldn't show it if I did. It wouldn't conform with your notions any better than what you've already seen. Why go through any more of that knowitall racket. I'm not here to 'debate' swings as you are. It's nonsense and always was.
Sorry Virg, but honestly, no kid deserves to be taught the swing you believe in. I was a victim of coaches like yourself for much of my little league time - the only reason I am where I am right now is because of my throwing, fielding, and lucky hits using the flawed system my coaches pushed but everyone else realized was odd. And in order to complete at this level, I'm forced to relearn my swing to what I could have been taught earlier.
Hey, I didn't teach your coaches and you don't understand the swing you see. Furthermore, had I taught you and you hit 780 with power at kid level, coaches at the next level would have seen too easy & short a swing, increased your effort level, and screwed things up themselves. Just like around here.
No, PF. No kid deserves any of that AND THEY ARE WARNED ABOUT IT ON THE WEBSITE. Some trial, conviction, execution, and lynching! Just another debate
Mark H
07-14-2006, 08:47 PM
No, but wouldn't show it if I did. It wouldn't conform with your notions any better than what you've already seen. Why go through any more of that knowitall racket. I'm not here to 'debate' swings as you are. It's nonsense and always was.
You show me a four frame swing with your technique, then you have shown me a four frame swing with your technique and that won't be arguable now will it? I think the same thing about you as I do Marshall. If you believe you have something figured out, why don't you have good examples on video? A reasonable man would understand our skepticism. An unreasonable man might be offended.
Mark H
07-14-2006, 09:00 PM
Hey, I didn't teach your coaches and you don't understand the swing you see. Furthermore, had I taught you and you hit 780 with power at kid level, coaches at the next level would have seen too easy & short a swing, increased your effort level, and screwed things up themselves. Just like around here.
No, PF. No kid deserves any of that AND THEY ARE WARNED ABOUT IT ON THE WEBSITE. Some trial, conviction, execution, and lynching! Just another debate
For it to be a trial you would have to introduce some evidence. A clip showing your technique performing a four, even a five or five and a half frame swing would be pretty persuasive...and pretty easy to produce...if you have the goods. Produce it and I will testify. Otherwise, a reasonable person is forced, by the preponderance of the evidence, to conclude you are leading young kids astray and therefore getting off light as far as scorn. But the verdict could easily be overturned by video evidence. In light of your failure to produce such, you can hardly blame anyone for skepticism. Mirth is a little harsh, but surely understandable in light of the clip. If you really have something, shame on you for not working harder to let kids know about it. If you don't, shame on you for the kids you lead astray.
ssarge
07-14-2006, 09:20 PM
Originally Posted by ssarge
Buy, have you got it wrong, Virg. And I don't mean what you believe about the swing, and your video clip.
...... and so on until......
The REALLY pig-headed position is to ignore that. Calling attention to it is laudable, not contemptible.Thanks
Steve, that's an unexpected civilized response.
I believe strongly in civility, actually. We ought to be able to disagree w/ courtesy.
However, my name is Scott.
Regards,
Scott
Mark H
07-14-2006, 09:55 PM
If you read on here much at all you would know Scott is ALWAYS civil, courteous and generous. I'm often the same, but people who take money to teach kids things that contradict what a cursory study of elite player clips would reveal are a pet peeve of mine. In light of that, I'm pleased the level of civility I've maintained. Not like Scott, but better than many other times. Doesn't mean either of us will compromise in terms of what we see and believe. Just means we use different methods of persuasion than Ohfor. ;)
Gents;
I have reviewed your generous offer to evaluate what I already know works, to inform me whether it works. There are reasons for my decision to suggest you shove it.;(your kind offer).
MarkH)[QUOTE]For it to be a trial you would have to introduce some evidence
TRIAL? Nobody around here is qualified to preside. Someone went out of his way to dig up an irrelevant item, another says "theory", now a guy says "trial". In ten years you have seen me advise no more than details of setting-up, never tinkering with rotational swings, never pushing mine and I’m indicted for witchcraft or theory or something? Never advertised on another’s Nickel; blamed for existing. No one around here is qualified to hold my ‘trial’. I didn’t ask and don’t need your approval and did hit without your help..
That you watch plenty of video doesn’t qualify you. Some others watch soap opera or situation comedy, some Oprah or Dr, Phil. What does it qualify them for but watching?
chesspirate);who the freak cares what he calls himself? we all know who he is, his posting style wont change
Gadabouts on the hitting web, bumming around under changing names, using ridicule, confusion, obstruction, noisy nonsense to deceive most readers, who can’t and should not need to know an itinerant wrecking crew’s ‘posting styles’
Only Guerry and Porco now use the same names as 8-10 years ago (maybe Buster?) Readers are entitled to guard against filibustering gadabouts on propaganda missions. If it’s not about deceit, just what the hell is it.? Destruction and/or control.
I gag on“swing analysis” by committee (concensus?) Witnessed many at Paul’s where you cut your teeth on swing “analysis”: check the first four letters of that word. I recall one of your reviews there of a clip showing a scrawny bucketfoot. Oblivious to that serious stance balance flaw and notions of “first things first”, anxious to proceed, eager to get your votes and first-choices in (it’s a democratic process) a suggestion about putting balance first was totally ignored as you played TinkerToy (now Lego) with that kid’s sequence. It was a regular drill on other clips there. You (nor your ‘rotating’ mentors) have shown any clue about foundation. Know where you want to go, but in such a hurry as to trample Point A routinely. (and I’m a kid-wrecker?)
Virg, that swing on your website is very similar to that of Cobb, Sistler, Lapjouie...
Two clips at setpro show Cobb starting in a slap setup then sliding hands together and striding long and rotating, (a bit too level for you). Don't accuse the poor fella of swinging anything like me, he’s got troubles enough around here. None of the clip watchers noted Cobb’s rotational method? Clip watchers suffering from selective tunnel vision?
Sorry, Virg, but your methods wouldn't hold a candle to Steve's. You might know about steve’s methods but not mine except for the setup details you ignore. So hold onto that candle! I can take care of myself and you can’t if you can’t tell methods from setup, and are only sounding off to prove things to the big dogs you’re brown nosing hereabouts.
believe strongly in civility, actually. We ought to be able to disagree w/ courtesy.
However, my name is Scott.
Scott, never in my life did I argue about hitting until this wrecking crew started knocking good men around on the HFE site. This seems to be the right time and place to speak up. Cheers.
"Two clips at setpro show Cobb starting in a slap setup then sliding hands together and striding long and rotating, (a bit too level for you). Don't accuse the poor fella of swinging anything like me, he’s got troubles enough around here. None of the clip watchers noted Cobb’s rotational method? Clip watchers suffering from selective tunnel vision? "
Oh, yeah, I have almost forgotten. I have seen one clip of Cobb where he displays solid lead-rotation.
ssarge
07-16-2006, 11:51 PM
Virg:
If it’s not about deceit, just what the hell is it.? Destruction and/or control.
Since you pose the question. . .
There are other possibilities.
One - and I believe it to be true - is that many have a desire to help others by causing them to do some work and make their own conclusions. I can tell you for a certainty that is the preferred approach by some on this board who you criticize.
Instead of providing easy answers - which in many cases will be considered today and discarded for the answer du jour tomorrow - there is a desire to help a person really understand what they don't understand. And to do the work to reach conclusions which will stick and form a permanent foundation. To teach a man to fish, if you will, rather than giving him a fish dinner.
Now, that approach requires a divestiture of ego on the part of the reader. Some are willing, some are not. It also requires the reader to invest time and energy. Again, the response to that choice varies.
Many chose not to do this, which is clearly their right. Depending on how that RIGHT is expressed, it sometimes engeneders a reaction, and then there can be a downward spiral.
But based on the people who have indeed been helped, and the willingness on the part of those whom you are criticizing to invest time, emotional effort, and energy, I can tell you that the original intent is well motivated and genuinely helpful. I have been a direct recepient of such benefit, many, many times.
I am probably a little different in my approach in that I do try to provide direct content (and answers) when I respond. Not altruistically, either, at least not entirely. Typing an answer helps me organze my own thoughts. If others benefit, that is great, but I do it at least partly for myself.
In this approach, I am different. But not different / better. Because I'm not sure it is. People who really do the research themselves in fact are more greatly benefited, and I'm not sure my approach is conducive to that.
But to reiterate the initial point, I think your list of possibilities is far from inclusive. FWIW. Again, I would urge you to read backwards on this board, and see which posters ALWAYS respond to requests for input (on clips, pictures, etc.). If you disagree w/ that advice, then great, offer a counter-opinion. I would recommend that you be prepared to back it up w/ clips of what you believe. The ultimate barometer, as far as I am concerned. It sure has changed what I WANT to believe about hitting. That too, is a step some aren't willing to take. And I don't know how I can more strongly iterate or emphasize that obvious point. But if you think that responding to some dad w/ advice for his 10 YO, backed up w/ solid reasoniong and tons of clips illustrating is a desire to CONTROL, I think you are in error. It is quite simply, a willingness to help. And as one who has done it, I know firsthand that it generally takes some hours, and involves a lot of effort - both in investment of time and emotion. Always, such responses must withstand peer scrutiny, and that is threatening, because sometimes people respond w/ disagreement and criticism. As you yourself point out. And it's no fun. But it IS same / same.
Scott
webmaster
07-18-2006, 03:01 AM
A quick reminder to please stay on topic. Disagree with the method he is teaching. Try it and agree maybe. Or try it and find faults then explain them to us, but stay on topic and do not get personal. We are here to discuss baseball and not each other....
If you do wish to ask or tell something personal in nature use the Private Message system so it can remain private.
Sean
PullFactor
07-18-2006, 04:46 PM
Where are you now?
Yankee Stadium. Nope, Cooperstown. Nope, Canada.
I'm not sure if this was an attack on me, a sarcastic remark, or a genuine question. Don't take offense to that last statement if it wasn't some sort of an insult.
As it stands, I play AA baseball with a 15yo team, hoping to move up to AAA next year. If it sounded like I thought I was some amazing nationwide all-star, I'm sorry, that's not how I intended to sound. However, if from a young age, I had been taught proper hitting concepts in the detail I am understanding them now, I would have been playing high level ball with a high level team for years now.
Hey, I didn't teach your coaches and you don't understand the swing you see. Furthermore, had I taught you and you hit 780 with power at kid level, coaches at the next level would have seen too easy & short a swing, increased your effort level, and screwed things up themselves. Just like around here.
No, PF. No kid deserves any of that AND THEY ARE WARNED ABOUT IT ON THE WEBSITE. Some trial, conviction, execution, and lynching! Just another debate
I know you didn't teach my coaches, but I was making the point that that swing is not the product of research and scientific understanding, but rather short term results and random tinkering.
PullFactor " know you didn't teach my coaches, but I was making the point that that swing is not the product of research and scientific understanding, but rather short term results and random tinkering."
An eight year streak, in FPS, after a ten year slide.
Product of a mechanical troubleshooter who took what engineers designed and bought, and made it work.