When did 300 wins become historically significant?

[STLCards2]

Does anybody know when winning 300 games became an important number with HOF ramifications? I noticed that not a single pitcher who started their careers post-1900 finished in the 290's for victories. Is that a coincidence, or have pitchers who have reached the 290 mark decided to "stick around" no matter what in order to get to 300.

Since 1900 there have been:

5 pitchers with 330+ wins

5 pitchers with 320-329 wins

3 pitchers with 310-319 wins

2 pitchers with 300-309 wins

0 pitchers with 290-299 wins, and

7 pitchers with 280-289 wins


Coincidence for pitchers back in the 30's? 40's? 50's? Or was there an understanding even back then about the "importance" of 300?

Did John and Kaat pitch 25 seasons way past their primes just to get to 300 wins?

[rugbyfreak]

Does anybody know when winning 300 games became an important number with HOF ramifications? I noticed that not a single pitcher who started their careers post-1900 finished in the 290's for victories. Is that a coincidence, or have pitchers who have reached the 290 mark decided to "stick around" no matter what in order to get to 300.

Since 1900 there have been:

5 pitchers with 330+ wins

5 pitchers with 320-329 wins

3 pitchers with 310-319 wins

2 pitchers with 300-309 wins

0 pitchers with 290-299 wins, and

7 pitchers with 280-289 wins


Coincidence for pitchers back in the 30's? 40's? 50's? Or was there an understanding even back then about the "importance" of 300?

Did John and Kaat pitch 25 seasons way past their primes just to get to 300 wins?

An interesting point. I have never read anything dealing directly with this, but here's my best guess:

By 1920, when all the pre-1900's and deadball pitchers had all closed out, first, we can assume that the former group had no thought of statistical milestones. They played as long as they played, then simply quit. Closest one in the group to go over the mark was Mickey Welch (307). There was one guy (Bobby Mathews) who retired in 1887 at 297.

Then came the deadballers, and by some coincidence, all the 300-game winners here were comfortably over the mark (the closest being Eddie Plank at 326). So if we want to assume that this group had these things somewhat in mind, none of them had anything to worry about.

The first guy to "hang on" to get 300 was Lefty Grove. He finished the '39 season at 286, and, having just gone 15-4, could reasonably continue to claim a spot in Boston's rotation. But Lefty finally hit his wall, and it took two more years at 7 wins per to finally retire at 300 even.

But the first guy documented as seeking 300 at all costs was Early Wynn. He finished the '60 season at 284 (after a 13-12 year), and since he had just won the Cy in '59, the Sox felt OK about giving the 41-yea-old Wynn his shot at glory.

But he stumbled painfully through 8- and 7-win yeasr, falling one short. The Sox, rebuilding, tired of the ballyhoo, and released him after the '62 season. Cleveland, where Early had forged his original glory, were the only takers, and out of respect, took him on for '63. It took the portly 43-year-old the entire year to get that one win, which, I believe, finally came in August.

Since then, it's safe to say that every pitcher who has been close has considered it a top priority to get there, and there are always teams willing to sign up a vet who is close.

The threshold seems to be the 290s. As you point out, nobody in the 290s has failed to push though. But several were left in the 280s, in my opinion the feeling here is that someone in the 280s will take two (or more) years to get there, but someone in the mid-290s is worth a one-year flier for the publicity it brings. That's my two cents.

Thanks for listening!

freak

[BaseballHistoryNut]

And, of course, the guy who retired without realizing how close he was to a future "milestone" was Sam Rice.

He played until he was 44, but batting average was still the order of the day for non-HR hitters back then, and his was still high, so I have to believe he could have found someone to let him get his 13 more hits, had he persisted. But he often said, in his retirement, that he'd have stayed around and gotten the 13 more if he'd only known 3,000 would become such a big deal. Manifestly, he didn't.

BHN

[soberdennis]

Of course neither Kaat nor John reached the milestone. Would they be in the HOF if they had stuck around 2 more years?

[BaseballHistoryNut]

Kaat might have had to stick around 10 more years to get to 300 wins. He was only a starter in 1/2 of his seasons after 1978, and in his final season, 1983, he not only didn't start any of his 24 games, he also didn't get any decisions. [EDIT JOB: That sentence was very poorly written. What I meant was, he was only a starter for 1/2 of a season, after 1978; NOT in 50% of his seasons. In essence, he was done as a starter after 1978.] On paper, he looks like he's "only 17 wins from 300," but he was at least 3 or 4 years away, and since he pitched until he was 44 years old....

I don't know how far over or under his teams' W-L records Kaat was for his career, but I always liked him as a pitcher, and I hope he does get into the Hall. His Adjusted ERA has little to offer, but he was a tremendous fielder and a damned good hitter... which, I suppose, could be taken to mean he should have won #300. But I always liked the guy, thought him a good team player, was REAL happy to see the Cards pull that rally in Game 7 of the 1982 Series so he finally got his ring, and would like to see him, as he fast approaches age 70 on that big body of his, cap it all off in Cooperstown.

BHN

[rugbyfreak]

Kaat might have had to stick around 10 more years to get to 300 wins. He was only a starter in 1/2 of his seasons after 1978, and in his final season, 1983, he not only didn't start any of his 24 games, he also didn't get any decisions. On paper, he looks like he's "only 17 wins from 300," but he was at least 3 or 4 years away, and since he pitched until he was 44 years old....

I don't know how far over or under his teams' W-L records Kaat was for his career, but I always liked him as a pitcher, and I hope he does get into the Hall. His Adjusted ERA has little to offer, but he was a tremendous fielder and a damned good hitter... which, I suppose, could be taken to mean he should have won #300. But I always liked the guy, thought him a good team player, was REAL happy to see the Cards pull that rally in Game 7 of the 1982 Series so he finally got his ring, and would like to see him, as he fast approaches age 70 on that big body of his, cap it all off in Cooperstown.

BHN

And might I add, as only Yankee fans would know this, that he is on the YES Netwok boadcasts, and is one of the most astute, no-nonsense baseball analysts I have eve head, especially about pitching.

Should have also added that Kaat fell victim to what seems to be anothe ule of the 300 pusuit: If you ae a elieve, as Kaat was the last 6-7 yeas of his caee, whee wins ae infequent, and you ae in the 280s, you can foget about it.

[RuthMayBond]

And might I add, as only Yankee fans would know this, that he is on the YES Netwok boadcasts, and is one of the most astute, no-nonsense baseball analysts I have eve head, especially about pitching.

Should have also added that Kaat fell victim to what seems to be anothe ule of the 300 pusuit: If you ae a elieve, as Kaat was the last 6-7 yeas of his caee, whee wins ae infequent, and you ae in the 280s, you can foget about it.You need to get the "R" key on your keyboard fixed

[Outta Here]

You need to get the "R" key on your keyboard fixed

HAHAHAHA :laugh

LOL - That's so funny :D

No Rs... You don't realise how often it's used til it's not there!!!

[Captain Cold Nose]

You need to get the "R" key on your keyboard fixed
Not to mention the fact that with satellite, national press accounts, etc, the rest of the world is not quite as out of the loop as rugbyfreak implies. You don't need to only be a Yankee fan to know about Kaat's ability as an announcer. He's one of the best former players in the booth.

[rugbyfreak]

Not to mention the fact that with satellite, national press accounts, etc, the rest of the world is not quite as out of the loop as rugbyfreak implies. You don't need to only be a Yankee fan to know about Kaat's ability as an announcer. He's one of the best former players in the booth.

Sorry, meant nothing by it, capn', except the (misguided) impression that a local guy is not well-known elsewhere. Makes me happy that Kitty is getting face time elsewhere. He's brilliant!

[KHenry14]

Of course neither Kaat nor John reached the milestone. Would they be in the HOF if they had stuck around 2 more years?

Hey it worked for Don Sutton!:ughh

[soberdennis]

True.
IMO Tommy John was one of the most underappreciated pitchers of his day. I would like to see him get in.

[Sliding Billy]

Hey it worked for Don Sutton!:ughh
The year Sutton got his 300th was his 20th consecutive full year of 33 or more starts. (He had 23 in the shortened 1981 season.)

He was 15-11 with a 3.74 ERA (110 ERA+) and a 1.86 ERA in the LCS. :lookitup

[KHenry14]

Billy, is it the Hall of Fame, or the merely good? Sutton was consistantly good, but never great. Heck most of the time he wasn't the best pitcher on his own team!

[csh19792001]

When did 300 wins become historicaly significant?

I went back and researched this, and indeed, due to the lack of emphasis on statistics (or, perhaps, more attributable to a lack of recognition of the importance of documenting and archiving records), 300 games was not a magic number for the entire period from the 1880's until 1941. Since there were fewer landmarks previously set to be broken, and more so because record keeping was usually shoddy, this comes as no surprise.

I went back through Proquest and ran many queries, searching all of the following:

APS Online
(Over 1,100 periodicals that first began publishing between 1740 and 1900, including special interest and general magazines, literary and professional journals, children's and women's magazines, and many other historically-significant periodicals)
New York Times
Wasington Post
Atlanta Constitution
Boston Globe
Chicago Tribune
Chicago Defender
Los Angeles Times

I also collated it with Retrosheet when applicable.

I went back and looked and pinpointed where Welch and Radborn won their 300th games- there was no mention of the milestone.

Cy Young won his 300th game on July 3rd, 1901, becoming the seventh pitcher to do so (beside Galvin, Keefe, Clarkson, Radbourn, Welch, Nichols).

And yet there was nary a mention of it in any of the major newspapers in the United States. There was also no mention of him passing Mickey Welch on August 16th or the immortal Radbourn on August 23rd.

In fact, two years later, on June 13, 1903 when Young became the ALL TIME leader in wins, it went without mention. I looked through all the archives and found nothing.

Here's what author Reed Browning had to say:

"And while his accomplishment in 1903 did not (as far as I can tell) arouse comment at the time, within two years, as baseball historians launched the struggle to pin down statistical information about the greatest winner in the game's history, the dimensions of the achievement would begin to receive attention. I cannot think of any player who has held the leadership position in an important cumulative baseball statistic for as long as Cy Young has enjoyed his claim as baseball's all time winningest pitcher." (130)

In point of fact, it may have been until Grove came along that 300 was born as a major historical milestone. I found nothing denoted about Mathewson's 300th win in 1912 (although there are dozens of articles about everything from his pitching emphasis to his clothing style), as well as commemorations of his career throughout the year.

When Plank reached 300 in 1915 while pitching for the Terriers in the Federal league, there was no marking of the occasion.

For Grove, however (July 25th, 1941), it was like a modern affair. He're the article, for SABR members, it's direct access.

Grove Registers 300th Victory As Sox Check Indians, 10-6 (http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?index=3&did=87648233&SrchMode=1&sid=24&Fmt=10&VInst=PROD&VType=PQD&RQT=309&VName=HNP&TS=1152823461&clientId=65882)

Excerpts, for those who can't access it directly:

"'The thrill of a lifetime- this is it!!!' grinned Grove as little Dom Dimaggio, who caught Lou Boudreau's final out, handing him the winning ball, in the locker room of the jubilant Red Sox. Grove, tired and dripping with sweat after being rushed by police through a crowd of screaming fans, said that he would send the ball to Cooperstown, NY, to be placed in baseball's Hall of Fame.

'Quit now!!! Grove almost screamed in answer to the question. 'They'll have to cut the uniform off of me! I'm going for another 300. They couldn't be any harder to get than the first 300.'"

"Jimmy" (in the parlance of the times) Foxx tripled to right in the eighth to ensure the win, which was hanging in the balance up to that point. The NY Times article has a giant picture of Foxx shaking hands with Grove and journeyman Johnny Peacock, all three grinning ear to ear.

[Sliding Billy]

Billy, is it the Hall of Fame, or the merely good? Sutton was consistantly good, but never great. Heck most of the time he wasn't the best pitcher on his own team!

I see your point.

Well, he was what he was. Bill James has his peak year win shares at only 24, but his seasonal average at 23. I doubt his .559 W/L% was much better than his teams'.

But if I were a team owner, and I knew I could sign a consistently good pitcher who would almost never miss a start from his rookie year through his 22d, I'd do it in an instant--certainly in preference to some deserving current Hall of Fame pitchers.

I guess I'd say for a pitcher, consistency at that level for that length is a great--and rare--accomplishment.

[STLCards2]

When did 300 wins become historicaly significant?

I went back and researched this, and indeed, due to the lack of emphasis on statistics (or, perhaps, more attributable to a lack of recognition of the importance of documenting and archiving records), 300 games was not a magic number for the entire period from the 1880's until 1941. Since there were fewer landmarks previously set to be broken, and more so because record keeping was usually shoddy, this comes as no surprise.

I went back through Proquest and ran many queries, searching all of the following:

APS Online
(Over 1,100 periodicals that first began publishing between 1740 and 1900, including special interest and general magazines, literary and professional journals, children's and women's magazines, and many other historically-significant periodicals)
New York Times
Wasington Post
Atlanta Constitution
Boston Globe
Chicago Tribune
Chicago Defender
Los Angeles Times

I also collated it with Retrosheet when applicable.

I went back and looked and pinpointed where Welch and Radborn won their 300th games- there was no mention of the milestone.

Cy Young won his 300th game on July 3rd, 1901, becoming the seventh pitcher to do so (beside Galvin, Keefe, Clarkson, Radbourn, Welch, Nichols).

And yet there was nary a mention of it in any of the major newspapers in the United States. There was also no mention of him passing Mickey Welch on August 16th or the immortal Radbourn on August 23rd.

In fact, two years later, on June 13, 1903 when Young became the ALL TIME leader in wins, it went without mention. I looked through all the archives and found nothing.

Here's what author Reed Browning had to say:

"And while his accomplishment in 1903 did not (as far as I can tell) arouse comment at the time, within two years, as baseball historians launched the struggle to pin down statistical information about the greatest winner in the game's history, the dimensions of the achievement would begin to receive attention. I cannot think of any player who has held the leadership position in an important cumulative baseball statistic for as long as Cy Young has enjoyed his claim as baseball's all time winningest pitcher." (130)

In point of fact, it may have been until Grove came along that 300 was born as a major historical milestone. I found nothing denoted about Mathewson's 300th win in 1912 (although there are dozens of articles about everything from his pitching emphasis to his clothing style), as well as commemorations of his career throughout the year.

When Plank reached 300 in 1915 while pitching for the Terriers in the Federal league, there was no marking of the occasion.

For Grove, however (July 25th, 1941), it was like a modern affair. He're the article, for SABR members, it's direct access.

Grove Registers 300th Victory As Sox Check Indians, 10-6 (http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?index=3&did=87648233&SrchMode=1&sid=24&Fmt=10&VInst=PROD&VType=PQD&RQT=309&VName=HNP&TS=1152823461&clientId=65882)

Excerpts, for those who can't access it directly:

"'The thrill of a lifetime- this is it!!!' grinned Grove as little Dom Dimaggio, who caught Lou Boudreau's final out, handing him the winning ball, in the locker room of the jubilant Red Sox. Grove, tired and dripping with sweat after being rushed by police through a crowd of screaming fans, said that he would send the ball to Cooperstown, NY, to be placed in baseball's Hall of Fame.

'Quit now!!! Grove almost screamed in answer to the question. 'They'll have to cut the uniform off of me! I'm going for another 300. They couldn't be any harder to get than the first 300.'"

"Jimmy" (in the parlance of the times) Foxx tripled to right in the eighth to ensure the win, which was hanging in the balance up to that point. The NY Times article has a giant picture of Foxx shaking hands with Grove and journeyman Johnny Peacock, all three grinning ear to ear.

Excellent stuff! Thanks, this was exactly what I was looking for.

[rugbyfreak]

HAHAHAHA :laugh

LOL - That's so funny :D

No Rs... You don't realise how often it's used til it's not there!!!

Of course, Murphy's Law: It'll never be the X or Z key, it'll be R!

[csh19792001]

Excellent stuff! Thanks, this was exactly what I was looking for.

You're welcome, man. :waving Always love to read, research, learn, and help out.

[geezer]

Sutton was an little above average pitcher, he only won 20 games once, at least he was on 5 pennant winners, and never won a World Series ring, but yeah, there were better pitchers with 300 wins.

Right now, we track much with personal stats, like 300 Wins, 500 homers, 3,000 hits, etc., but to win 300 games its not easy, there are only 22 pitchers with that plateau reached, and 2 on the way of reaching it, with less than 30 wins away, while they're only 20 members of the 500 home run club, while 6 players are less than 60 homers away from that, and 26 members of the 3,000 hit club, with Biggio approaching that plateau by 2007. Nonetheless, I think that winning 300 games is awesome, and its hard, blood, sweat and tears to get it, and going out to that road is an admiration to the sport.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Of course, Murphy's Law: It'll never be the X or Z key, it'll be R!

Ahh...the ol' Dorito crumbs jamming the keyboard experience :waving


Nice research Chris. Any mention of Ruth's 500th on August 11, 1929?

[TonyK]

You need to get the "R" key on your keyboard fixed

foget about it. ;-)

[BaseballHistoryNut]

My god. So he was 34-1/2 when he hit #500--even though he was basically robbed of the first 5+ years of his career where HR-hitting was concerned, because of the dead ball and the humongousness of Fenway's then-existing RF!

If they'd played baseball as we know it when he came up, and he'd been in the Polo Grounds from the get-go, can you imagine how many HR's he would have had by that date in August of 1929? Or perhaps I should say, "Can you imagine how many career BB's he'd have had?" (Jim's mind pauses, being thoroughly boggled. :noidea :crazy :noidea :crazy :noidea :crazy )

BHN

[Brian McKenna]

Often overlooked the first MacMillan encyclopedia in 1969 changed the way things were seen. For the first time fans had a comprehensive bible to compare and contrast historical figures. It led, in part, to Addie Joss and others being considered for the Hall.

[RuthMayBond]

Often overlooked the first MacMillan encyclopedia in 1969 changed the way things were seen. For the first time fans had a comprehensive bible to compare and contrast historical figures. It led, in part, to Addie Joss and others being considered for the Hall.And it only took the Indians TWENTY-EIGHT more years to put him in their TEAM Hall of Fame :grouchy

[csh19792001]

Nice research Chris. Any mention of Ruth's 500th on August 11, 1929?

Thank Randy. :)

#500? Sure was a story.

From the Los Angeles Times:

"Ruth's drive was his thirtieth of the season, and it increased his margin in the American leadership in addition to sending him into a tie with Melvin Ott of the Giants for second place in the interleague race"

The New York Times:

"Ruth's Smash Off Huldin Clears The Right Field Wall- Babe gives $20 and 2 autographed spheres to the the finder- Cy Williams is next with 237"

"Ruth made it on the first ball pitched by Willis Hudlin in the second inning, a high fastball...which cleared the right field fence near the foul line.

Ruth has put up notice that he will put up a great fight before he will be deposed as homerun monarch this season. In his last seven games the Babe has six home runs, and now only Klein of the Phillies now leads Ruth. Babe dispatched a courier in quest of the priceless ball he knocked out of the park. Ten minutes later there reported at the Yankee bench Jake Geiser, 46, of Philadelphia. He was visiting relatives near the ballpark and at the moment Babe's 500th home run dipped over the fence he was on his way to catch a bus for Philadelphia.

He was just a passer by, but his capture of the ball after it richocheted off a Lexington Avenue doorstep put him in fame's spotlight for a moment. The Emperor of Swat shook hands with him in the Yankee dugout, traded him an autographed pair of baseballs in exchange for the historic sphere he fielded off the doorstep, then presented him with a $20 bill, unautographed."

From the Washington Post:

"Before hitting his 500th homerun, the Babe made arrangements to get back the ball. 'I'd kind of like to save that one' he told H. Clay Folger, chief of the Dunn Field police. So when the Sultan of Swat knocked the ball over Lexington Avenue, Folger hunted the man down."

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Thank Randy. :)

#500? Sure was a story.

From the Los Angeles Times:

"Ruth's drive was his thirtieth of the season, and it increased his margin in the American leadership in addition to sending him into a tie with Melvin Ott of the Giants for second place in the interleague race"

The New York Times:

"Ruth's Smash Off Huldin Clears The Right Field Wall- Babe gives $20 and 2 autographed spheres to the the finder- Cy Williams is next with 237"

"Ruth made it on the first ball pitched by Willis Hudlin in the second inning, a high fastball...which cleared the right field fence near the foul line.

Ruth has put up notice that he will put up a great fight before he will be deposed as homerun monarch this season. In his last seven games the Babe has six home runs, and now only Klein of the Phillies now leads Ruth. Babe dispatched a courier in quest of the priceless ball he knocked out of the park. Ten minutes later there reported at the Yankee bench Jake Geiser, 46, of Philadelphia. He was visiting relatives near the ballpark and at the moment Babe's 500th home run dipped over the fence he was on his way to catch a bus for Philadelphia.

He was just a passer by, but his capture of the ball after it richocheted off a Lexington Avenue doorstep put him in fame's spotlight for a moment. The Emperor of Swat shook hands with him in the Yankee dugout, traded him an autographed pair of baseballs in exchange for the historic sphere he fielded off the doorstep, then presented him with a $20 bill, unautographed."

From the Washington Post:

"Before hitting his 500th homerun, the Babe made arrangements to get back the ball. 'I'd kind of like to save that one' he told H. Clay Folger, chief of the Dunn Field police. So when the Sultan of Swat knocked the ball over Lexington Avenue, Folger hunted the man down."

Of course they had no way of knowing he'd go on to 714, but there must have been writers who thought that Babe would eventually be passed by the new crop of sluggers. Sluggers who had more homers than Babe at their age, and sluggers who had a chance to enjoy the liveball for their entire careers. Any writings on that?

[yankillaz]

I don't know how far over or under his teams' W-L records Kaat was for his career, but I always liked him as a pitcher, and I hope he does get into the Hall. His Adjusted ERA has little to offer, but he was a tremendous fielder and a damned good hitter... which, I suppose, could be taken to mean he should have won #300. But I always liked the guy, thought him a good team player, was REAL happy to see the Cards pull that rally in Game 7 of the 1982 Series so he finally got his ring, and would like to see him, as he fast approaches age 70 on that big body of his, cap it all off in Cooperstown.

BHN

Me too BHN.

As for significant, winning 300 games became important at the end of the 60's. I think the man who changed the view of this was Warren Spahn. He achieved 300 wins in 1961, 20 years after Lefty Grove did it. That was the largest time frame between 20 game winners, and as we know, Spahn was an icon to all those pitching greats of the 60's. Early Wynn reached 300 in his last season, in 1963, mainly because the 300 win was starting to look like a very impressive milestone.

Then in the 70's - 80's, Perry, Seaver, Carlton, Sutton, Niekro and Ryan made it even bigger. Too bad is going to be almost impossible for pitchers nowadays to accomplish the feat.

[geezer]

Too bad is going to be almost impossible for pitchers nowadays to accomplish the feat.

Right now, there are 8 pitchers with at least 200 wins but not 300, and of those 8 pitchers, only Glavine, Johnson, Mussina and Pedro Martinez have a shot of getting to that plateau, and its not easy, actually im rooting for all those pitchers that can have a chance to get to 300 Ws, because is an amazing feat, and right now, its the maximum standard for pitching performance for a career.

[yankillaz]

Right now, there are 8 pitchers with at least 200 wins but not 300, and of those 8 pitchers, only Glavine, Johnson, Mussina and Pedro Martinez have a shot of getting to that plateau, and its not easy, actually im rooting for all those pitchers that can have a chance to get to 300 Ws, because is an amazing feat, and right now, its the maximum standard for pitching performance for a career.

When i mentioned pitchers nowadays, i'm not counting on established pitchers. BTW, only Glavine and Randy Johnson are going to get 300 wins. And that will be the end of the feat, much like 200 triples.

[BaseballHistoryNut]

Pedro's only 34, and both his W-L records and his Adjusted ERA's are generally top-notch. You don't think he has any shot at 300? Think of it this way: If he gets to maybe 275, or certainly 285, nothing will stop him from going the distance, unless NO team will take him. Given what he's done, how likely is that?

BHN

[wamby]

Thank Randy. :)

#500? Sure was a story.

From the Los Angeles Times:

"Ruth's drive was his thirtieth of the season, and it increased his margin in the American leadership in addition to sending him into a tie with Melvin Ott of the Giants for second place in the interleague race"

The New York Times:

"Ruth's Smash Off Huldin Clears The Right Field Wall- Babe gives $20 and 2 autographed spheres to the the finder- Cy Williams is next with 237"

"Ruth made it on the first ball pitched by Willis Hudlin in the second inning, a high fastball...which cleared the right field fence near the foul line.

Ruth has put up notice that he will put up a great fight before he will be deposed as homerun monarch this season. In his last seven games the Babe has six home runs, and now only Klein of the Phillies now leads Ruth. Babe dispatched a courier in quest of the priceless ball he knocked out of the park. Ten minutes later there reported at the Yankee bench Jake Geiser, 46, of Philadelphia. He was visiting relatives near the ballpark and at the moment Babe's 500th home run dipped over the fence he was on his way to catch a bus for Philadelphia.

He was just a passer by, but his capture of the ball after it richocheted off a Lexington Avenue doorstep put him in fame's spotlight for a moment. The Emperor of Swat shook hands with him in the Yankee dugout, traded him an autographed pair of baseballs in exchange for the historic sphere he fielded off the doorstep, then presented him with a $20 bill, unautographed."

From the Washington Post:

"Before hitting his 500th homerun, the Babe made arrangements to get back the ball. 'I'd kind of like to save that one' he told H. Clay Folger, chief of the Dunn Field police. So when the Sultan of Swat knocked the ball over Lexington Avenue, Folger hunted the man down."

I can't believe that he hit it in Cleveland and a guy from Philadelphia caught it!! That was back in the days when Hough was a beautiful neighborhood in Cleveland.

[yankillaz]

Pedro's only 34, and both his W-L records and his Adjusted ERA's are generally top-notch. You don't think he has any shot at 300? Think of it this way: If he gets to maybe 275, or certainly 285, nothing will stop him from going the distance, unless NO team will take him. Given what he's done, how likely is that?

BHN

In another thread i mentioned people to stop thinking Pedro's body won't hold up, just like LA did back in 1993-94, when they changed him to Montreal for Delino Deshields. So i'm not the person to say otherwise if Pedro is to get 300 wins. But he's repeatedly argued that he's retiring after his contrac ends, AND he's lost many wins due to the lack of run support and/or bullpen. Is going to be difficult. If he DOES get to 300 wins, he's going to top any pitcher that ever lived as the most dominant of all-time, not to mention the best.