Dusty to stick around for a time

[rockin500]

well, it looks like baker will be around for awhile, despite everyone calling for his head. cant say im too surprised.

[RBi]

well, it looks like baker will be around for awhile, despite everyone calling for his head. cant say im too surprised.

I think JH is saying bringing in someone new in mid season will not help.

We wont have a big name Manager take over in mid season, why not just wait and see what managers are open for a relocation at the end of 2006.

I am one who is not bothered by this move... one bit.

[rockin500]

I think JH is saying bringing in someone new in mid season will not help.

We wont have a big name Manager take over in mid season, why not just wait and see what managers are open for a relocation at the end of 2006.

I am one who is not bothered by this move... one bit.
yep, that is what he is saying, but Baker DOES have a chance to save his job depending on how he does in the second half.

[Whitesoxnut]

yep, that is what he is saying, but Baker DOES have a chance to save his job depending on how he does in the second half.

I'm not surprised. The only one that wants him gone are some of the fans, and not even all of them. Hendry not only wants to keep him but wants to re-sign him. The players all like him because he is a "players manager". The team is making money so theres no thunder from the back office. Theres really no reason why a team like the Cubs cant at least play .500 ball for the rest of the season so Dusty may be here for awhile. He just may get a one year extension.

[Cubs Fan in TN]

well, i'll tell you what, i was so excited when db came to chicago! i thought that maybe finally that revolving managerial door that has just kept going since what '70-something was over, and maybe it is. i would like to think that everything will be fine in the 2nd half. hey, i even hope that the cubs do so good that db gets a long-term contract! i still think that the coaching staff may need to be looked at in the off-season though.

is big z ok and ready to go?

is d-lee really a superstar player?

resign pierre?

keep big z, marshall, and marmol and move the rest?

why are we still paying jerome williams?

i need input guys!

[Slightly Sarcastic]

yep, that is what he is saying, but Baker DOES have a chance to save his job depending on how he does in the second half.

And that's the part that bothers me.

We are at the point of the season now where the Nevin's and Neifi's of this team to find themselves glued to the bench, Zambrano needs to be on a 90-95 pitch count the rest of the season, and Prior should be shut completely down. Now is the time to really find out if Hill, Guzman, Ryu, and any other kids on the 40-man can hack it in the bigs.

With Dusty still having something to play for, that being his own worthless hide, we still won't have much of an idea what those kids can do for next season, and he just might finally work Zambrano to death.

[Lipsander]

is d-lee really a superstar player?



Please, you have to be joking.

[KCGHOST]

It could be worse, Cub fans. You could have Buddy Bell. :D

[rockin500]

And that's the part that bothers me.

We are at the point of the season now where the Nevin's and Neifi's of this team to find themselves glued to the bench, Zambrano needs to be on a 90-95 pitch count the rest of the season, and Prior should be shut completely down. Now is the time to really find out if Hill, Guzman, Ryu, and any other kids on the 40-man can hack it in the bigs.

With Dusty still having something to play for, that being his own worthless hide, we still won't have much of an idea what those kids can do for next season, and he just might finally work Zambrano to death.
ridicilous. zambrano has no business only being a 90-95 pitch pitcher everytime out from now on. Thats counterproductive. nevin hasnt played as much recently anyways, and playing neifi on occasion isnt a bad idea at multiple positions since cedeno needs days off since he obviously isnt doing well playing on a daily basis.

and hill has already proven he is a AAAA pitcher.

[Slightly Sarcastic]

ridicilous. zambrano has no business only being a 90-95 pitch pitcher everytime out from now on. Thats counterproductive.

Counterproductive to what exactly? Making sure he's healthy to play in future seasons? Or are you still under the dilusion that the Cubs can make some kind of miracle comeback this year?



and playing neifi on occasion isnt a bad idea at multiple positions since cedeno needs days off since he obviously isnt doing well playing on a daily basis.

That's exactly why Cedeno needs to be playing every day. Either we find out that he can indeed hack it everyday, or we find out that there needs to be an upgrade made in the offseason.



and hill has already proven he is a AAAA pitcher.

The only thing that 43 major league innings over 2 seasons is proof of is that it's not enough of a sample size to prove anything.

[Whitesoxnut]

ridicilous. zambrano has no business only being a 90-95 pitch pitcher everytime out from now on. Thats counterproductive. nevin hasnt played as much recently anyways, and playing neifi on occasion isnt a bad idea at multiple positions since cedeno needs days off since he obviously isnt doing well playing on a daily basis.

and hill has already proven he is a AAAA pitcher.

I dont know if "Z" needs to be on a 95 pitch count. Every pitcher is different and "he" is a bull who can no doubt throw more pitches, safely, then a lot of other pitchers. On the other hand he is the franchise and there is no point risking injury for him in a season that's already lost, most of all to save the job of a manager like Baker. Zambrano likes Baker and is emotional himself so he might get himself into arm trouble without knowing it.

I dont think much of Baker but I cant see the man putting anyone at risk to save his own job. Thats kinda unfair and yes tho he's done it to win, to save his own job???? I dont think so. So a pitch count may be in order for "Z" but it aint 90 to 95. I guess the problem with a lot of teams in the 2nd half is even a good bullpen will get ran down, along with a starting rotation, so you have to be able to get some innings out of your starters if your going to win ball games.

This is really where a guy like Maddux shines and why he will always be a valuable part of a team. For almost 2 decades now he has consistently given 7 innings+ in his starts while keeping his team in the game most of the time. Wins, losses, and ERAs dont tell a pitchers full story. You really have to look at the big picture. And also why Ive always been a huge fan of Greg.

[rockin500]

Counterproductive to what exactly? Making sure he's healthy to play in future seasons? Or are you still under the dilusion that the Cubs can make some kind of miracle comeback this year?

That's exactly why Cedeno needs to be playing every day. Either we find out that he can indeed hack it everyday, or we find out that there needs to be an upgrade made in the offseason.

The only thing that 43 major league innings over 2 seasons is proof of is that it's not enough of a sample size to prove anything.

no i dont really have an expectation to compete even given this abortion of a league. Z should be able to pitch 100-110 every season. If he cant regularly pitch that amount from here on out there are some serious problems. Should he pitch 120+ often? nope. but to say he shouldnt go over 95 is idiocy.

as for cedeno, he needs a day off on occasion THIS year. thats already been proven out so far this year. I'm not saying only play him 3 games a week, I'm saying one day off a week isnt a problem.

as for that 43 innings, those 43 innings have shown that he needs more maturity to get by at the major league level. Not to mention a better fastball.

[Slightly Sarcastic]

no i dont really have an expectation to compete even given this abortion of a league. Z should be able to pitch 100-110 every season. If he cant regularly pitch that amount from here on out there are some serious problems. Should he pitch 120+ often? nope. but to say he shouldnt go over 95 is idiocy.

With things as out of hand as they are, I'll happily err on the side of caution. Do to anything else is idiocy.



as for cedeno, he needs a day off on occasion THIS year. thats already been proven out so far this year. I'm not saying only play him 3 games a week, I'm saying one day off a week isnt a problem.

I don't even like 1 day off a week. 1 every other week would be alright. He needs as many AB's as possible.



as for that 43 innings, those 43 innings have shown that he needs more maturity to get by at the major league level. Not to mention a better fastball.

He's got nothing else to learn or prove at AAA. It's time to give him a spot in the big league rotation for the rest of this season. Since we both agree there's no reason to think that this team is going to make a comeback, where's the downside?

[rockin500]

but what is a spot going to do unless he makes his fastball better? his curveball is good, yes. but if he cant spot his fastball, what good is he? his ERA will be over 10 and hurt the bullpen since he will be out of the game everytime after 4 or 5.

as for Z. throwing him 105 pitches is certainly not going to hurt anything since it would be lower than his average, not to mention 95 would take him out after 5 or 6 quite easily, and yep that hurts the pen too. Do you want to blow their arms out?

[Slightly Sarcastic]

but what is a spot going to do unless he makes his fastball better? his curveball is good, yes. but if he cant spot his fastball, what good is he? his ERA will be over 10 and hurt the bullpen since he will be out of the game everytime after 4 or 5.

His fastball isn't going to get any faster. Either he learns how to pitch as the ML level, or he doesn't. Waiting until next season to find out makes no sense.




as for Z. throwing him 105 pitches is certainly not going to hurt anything since it would be lower than his average, not to mention 95 would take him out after 5 or 6 quite easily, and yep that hurts the pen too. Do you want to blow their arms out?

I'd rather blow out the arms of Novoa, Rusch and Williamson than Zambrano's.

[rockin500]

I'd rather blow out the arms of Novoa, Rusch and Williamson than Zambrano's.

williamson is expected to be gone before the deadline...

[Slightly Sarcastic]

williamson is expected to be gone before the deadline...

My point remains the same.

[Cubs Fan in TN]

big z is a horse, and i would think that 110 - 120 is not going to bother him. also i think it is a good idea to keep him focused on the game by giving him innings. the last thing that we want for next year is for him to lose his fire, his zeal. most of these guys are where they are because of their competitiveness. take that away, and they are not the same people.

play cedeno! a day off every couple weeks is more than enough.

hill might make it, but i don't know? my hope is in marmol! his future is bright.

[The Big C]

I'm all for limiting Zambrano's innings. There's no need for him to complete games or anything at this point, we have next year and beyond to worry about. With our luck concerning the health of young starters, we should exercise a certain measure of caution when the season is so obviously lost.

[rockin500]

I'm all for limiting Zambrano's innings. There's no need for him to complete games or anything at this point, we have next year and beyond to worry about. With our luck concerning the health of young starters, we should exercise a certain measure of caution when the season is so obviously lost.
cant worry about beyond next year with Z until you get him signed since he will be a free agent after next season with our most beloved agent: boras

[Lipsander]

If the Cubs lose Zambrano to free agency, I'd have a hard time watching my Cubs there after.

[Bob Sacamento]

cant worry about beyond next year with Z until you get him signed since he will be a free agent after next season with our most beloved agent: boras
Zambrano fired Boras in January, he's now with Scott Shapiro and Barry Praver.

[rockin500]

Zambrano fired Boras in January, he's now with Scott Shapiro and Barry Praver.
is he? did not know that. hopefully that means it will be easier to get a deal done.

[letsgocubbies]

Yeah I hate the fact that Dusty will be staying. They will go on a 4 game winning streak and Hendry will sign him to a 4 year extention.

[RBi]

Yeah I hate the fact that Dusty will be staying. They will go on a 4 game winning streak and Hendry will sign him to a 4 year extention.

I got to ask..

Would you rather...

The cubs continue to lose and have a bad year totally, and Dusty be gone...

or..

Have the cubs turn around this 2nd half and have a decent record by the end of the year... and Dusty stay...

?????

[letsgocubbies]

Well, it depends on whats better for the future. There is no way that the Cubs are going to make a playoff run so I'd rather just use the rest of this year as a rebuilding year. Maybe we can give Marmol some more starts and maybe call up a few pitchers that may have a future in starting. We probably need to use Prior
less work then what we would give him, so he can be rested for next year. It's not like the Cubs are going to make any kind of playoff run (we can always hope:D) but it is real unlikely.
Did you mean keeping Dusty for a long time or for the rest of the year, I would rather take the second option if it is just keeping him for this year. If it is keeping him than 4 more years, maybe it is better if we lose because we can't make a playoff run anyway, and we start rebuilding and have playoff teams in the next few years. Basically if having a bad rest of the year meant playoff runs in the future I would take that. I really hope that made some sort of since usually I backtrack a lot when typing stuff.Sorry about that.:waving O if the decent year meant playoffs I would take Dusty,but it probably doesn't.

[RBi]

Well, it depends on whats better for the future. There is no way that the Cubs are going to make a playoff run so I'd rather just use the rest of this year as a rebuilding year. Maybe we can give Marmol some more starts and maybe call up a few pitchers that may have a future in starting. We probably need to use Prior
less work then what we would give him, so he can be rested for next year. It's not like the Cubs are going to make any kind of playoff run (we can always hope:D) but it is real unlikely.
Did you mean keeping Dusty for a long time or for the rest of the year, I would rather take the second option if it is just keeping him for this year. If it is keeping him than 4 more years, maybe it is better if we lose because we can't make a playoff run anyway, and we start rebuilding and have playoff teams in the next few years. I really hope that made some sort of since usually I backtrack a lot when typing stuff.Sorry about that.:waving O if the decent year meant playoffs I would take Dusty,but it probably doesn't.


I am just amazed with the amount of people who are for the team losing, so Dusty will "have to go".

That just blows my mind, I am more in the corner of let's win... Who cares who is in control, I would rather just win...

But there is a rather high % of "fans" who are wanting Dusty out SOOO bad, they are willing to have a 100 loss season to ensure it happens...

And that is just wrong, in my opinion.

[The Big C]

I would love to win and see Dusty gone, but if I can only pick one, I know my choice, because I feel it will be more productive in the long run to see Dusty gone (and several of the players and front office people too).

[rockin500]

I would love to win and see Dusty gone, but if I can only pick one, I know my choice, because I feel it will be more productive in the long run to see Dusty gone (and several of the players and front office people too).
would it? really?

[The Big C]

I believe so.

[rockin500]

I believe so.
the problem being is that you wont see the latter. getting rid of baker alone certainly isnt going to do the trick and while some of the players may get sent packing (start with Walker and Nevin) I doubt any FO guy is going to be sent on their way.

[The Big C]

But that isn't a valid argument for Dusty staying. Just because some other guys deserve to get fired but won't doesn't mean Dusty doesn't deserve to get fired. The logic of thinking that escapes me. Maybe I'm misunderstanding exactly what you're getting at.