Gehrig

[cavalier1968]

Anyone have?

1) A thought to where you would put Lou on your all time player list and First baseman list?

2) His "stats" if he stayed healthy for a few more years......


Cav

[soberdennis]

1. He definitely would make my top 10 all time, and tops among 1bmen

2. This is a harder question. Many factors come into play. He turned 36 the year he retired. How many good years did he have left? Then comes the war. That may have extended his career a little since most of the younger stars were away. The fact that he was a first baseman may have helped also.
Anyway, here are a couple thoughts on it.
1) he may have hit his 500th homer even with his disease if he had played out the 39 season.
2) Ahealthy Gehrig would have ended up with more homers than Foxx and Mantle. Beyond that it is hard to figure.

[Myankee4life]

1.) Given a healthy decline I'd rank Lou #3 all-time( with my given numbers) and he'd remain the #1 1B

2.) His BA/OB%/Slg% would have gone down but his counting numbers would of increased.

Id say not counting his 1938 season ( afflicted with ALS) from 1937 on had he played till he was 40 ( 6 more years)

He averaged 37 HR's in his career so if he averaged 27 his last 6 years Hed end up with 627HR's (5th all-time).

He averaged 149 RBI's in his career so if he averaged 119 his last 6 years he'd end up with 2592 (1st all-time).

He averaged 141 Runs in his career so if he averaged 108 his last 6 years he'd end up with 2418 (1st all-time).

He averaged 204 Hits in his career so if he averaged 173 his last 6 years hed end up with 3584 (5th all-time).

He averaged 40 2B in his career so if he averaged 23 his last 6 years hed end up with 640 ( tied 8th all-time).

He averaged 113 BB in his career so if he averaged 94 his last 6 years hed end up with 1961 (5th all-time).

So .330/627/2592/.438/.620 3584(H) 2418(R) 640(2B) 1961(BB)

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Id say not counting his 1938 season ( afflicted with ALS) from 1937 on had he played till he was 40 ( 6 more years)


This sounds about right. In '38 he said that he'd planned to play five more years, but then started to back-off that (understandably with how he was feeling), and had a more year-to-year mindset.

[Bill Burgess]

I'd say that ranking Lou between 7-13th would sound about right. I normally rank Lou and Hornsby close to each other.
I presently have Lou ranked 10th. Bill James has him 13th. Number that follow represent Bill James' placings.

1. Ty Cobb 5
2. Honus Wagner 2
3. Babe Ruth 1
4. Willie Mays 3
5. Oscar Charleston, NL 4
6. Buck Ewing - C17
7. Pop Lloyd, NL 22
8. Tris Speaker 10
9. Rogers Hornsby 18
10. Lou Gehrig 13
11. Barry Bonds 15
12. Eddie Collins 16
13. Stan Musial 9
14. Joe DiMaggio 12
15. Mickey Mantle 6

Bill

[DoubleX]

He's 1st all-time at 1st base for me. His all-time ranking among all position players is in the 5-10 range for me. Had his career not be truncated by disease, I believe he would have put up some pretty mammoth career numbers across the board, considering that his last healthy season (1938) at age 34, was stupendous as usual for Gehrig. With his durability and natural ability, I think it's plausible, with a natural decline period, that Gehrig could have had at least three more highly productive seasons followed by 2 or 3 more less productive seasons. I believe he could have finished with say 3300-3400 hits, 625-650 homeruns, and still to this day, be the all-time leader in RBI and Runs Scored by healthy margins. I'm thinking about 2300-2400 runs (100-200 more than Henderson) and perhaps as many as 2600-2700 RBI (300-400 more than Aaron). He'd also likely easily rank among the top 5 all-time in Walks.

[Blackout]

top 5

right behind Ruth, Cobb, Ted Williams and Josh Gibson

[Wee Willie]

I have him 12th, but with a regular decline he'd have a shot at 7th or 8th.

[KCGHOST]

I have him 7-10 and the best of the 1B's.

[RuthMayBond]

Anyone have?

1) A thought to where you would put Lou on your all time player listNo lower than 17th for career, and obviously higher for peak

<and First baseman list?>

Unless you want to count all of Musial's career towards 1B, he's the only possible guy who could top Lou for career (but not peak)

[Myankee4life]

No lower than 17th for career, and obviously higher for peak

<and First baseman list?>

Unless you want to count all of Musial's career towards 1B, he's the only possible guy who could top Lou for career (but not peak)


So even if he got 3500 (H) 600(HR) 2500(RBI) 2400(R) while maintaining a
.330/.438/.620 you wouldn't rank him in the top ten?

Where do you currently have him?

[Wade8813]

Best 1B all time, for a single season and career. In career he's best by a good margin, but for a single season, there are a few who are about as good (by his numbers, not accounting for the league averages, etc).

I'm not sure where I'd stick him for rankings of all position players. When I do drafts of all time fantasy teams, it's always been 1 year or an average of 2 consecutive years. These drafts have never been with a lot of people drafting, so players that dominate their respective positions are more important.

[RuthMayBond]

So even if he got 3500 (H) 600(HR) 2500(RBI) 2400(R) while maintaining a
.330/.438/.620 you wouldn't rank him in the top ten?Well that would be a different story

<Where do you currently have him?>

I kinda thought I already said :confused:

[Blackout]

I fail to see how career wise anyone can have him outside the top 10, 1995 RBI's and such a high OBP and slugging average should speak for itself considering he had 8000 at-bats

[baseball junkie]

Gehrig seems to represent one of the extremely rare instances in baseball, or any sport, when virtually everyone can agree that a particular player was the best all-time at his position. I certainly can not think of any first baseman I would place ahead of Gehrig. And I can not think of any other player in any other sport who is the consensus best at his position.

For instance in football is the best QB, Montana or Unitas or Marino or Brady or Manning? Who is the best RB, Brown, Campbell, Dickerson, Sanders, Smith? Who is the best defensive player, Deacon Jones, Lawrence Taylor, Ray Lewis, Ronnie Lott? No clear answers.

In basketball who is the best player ever, Russell, Chamberlain, Abdul-Jabbar, Bird, Johnson, Jordan, Shaq? No clear answers.

Even in baseball it can be argued that Aaron was a better rightfielder than Ruth.

Gehrig's closest competitor at total positional dominance is probably Wayne Gretzky. I am not a hockey fan, at all. But I don't think anybody doubts he was the best ever at his position.

Is Pele even the best soccer player anymore? It's a very short list.

[RuthMayBond]

Gehrig seems to represent one of the extremely rare instances in baseball, or any sport, when virtually everyone can agree that a particular player was the best all-time at his position. I certainly can not think of any first baseman I would place ahead of Gehrig. And I can not think of any other player in any other sport who is the consensus best at his position.There should be at least as much of a consensus on Honus

<Even in baseball it can be argued that Aaron was a better rightfielder than Ruth.>

If you say so

[Bill Burgess]

There should be at least as much of a consensus on Honus
Here, here. Wagner is even more a consensus at his position as Lou.

Even though Sisler will always be my all time 1Bman, I can no longer argue his place over Lou. Just too unwinable a case.

But even though Lou is by far our consensus choice at 1B, Wagner/Ruth are at least as unanimous a choice at their respective positions, and Schmidt is not that far behind (apologies to ElHalo).

And while most knowledgeable Fever members believe that Ty Cobb also deserves to be a heavy consensus choice for an OF post, sadly he is not as tight a consensus on Fever as we, his supporters, would like.

Bill Burgess

[Outta Here]

Toss up for me between him & Musial (played 1B & OF) for best 1Bman.

Between 5-10 in all-time list probably :clapping

[Blackout]

Even in baseball it can be argued that Aaron was a better rightfielder than Ruth.


by whom? people in milwakee maybe, but nowhere else

[Bill Burgess]

by whom? people in milwakee maybe, but nowhere else
Quite sure he referring to defense/running only here. Or one would so assume?!

BB