Dusty has to go

[jack daniels]

I have been a Cub fan since 1941. Seen a lot of managers. Dusty is the worst. His complacent attitude is inexcusable.

[WR's succesor]

Maybe make a switch with SF for Alou? :D

[RBi]

I have been a Cub fan since 1941. Seen a lot of managers. Dusty is the worst. His complacent attitude is inexcusable.
having winning seasons 2 of 4 seasons.. is FAR from worse....

We seem to live in a "what have you done for me lately" kind of world....

And because of that, people say he is "the worse"

But there are little facts to back that up...

With that said... does he need to go?

YES... without a doubt, with the team playing poorly as they are... something needs to happen. As they say, "shake things up" a bit.

Step one, find another manager and see what they can do.

[Whitesoxnut]

having winning seasons 2 of 4 seasons.. is FAR from worse....

Depends how you look at it. I cant remember a Cubs coach who's done so little with so much. Most of all '03 and '04. People point to those years as testament to Dusty's potential but what is the reality? 2003 was 88 regular season wins and '04 was 89.....wow! '03 was one of the great meltdowns in modern history. And the end of '04, when they whined themselves out of the wild card, was right up there. To make it even worse both teams were very talented.

And it was always Bartman, grabbing the wrong bat, injuries, Steve Stone, Corey, and "just wait until Wood and Prior come back".

I dont doubt that Hendry is a big factor in their disgusting play but the simple fact is Dusty Baker has presided over one of the most embarrassing stories in modern sports. The Cubs are a laughingstock! As an organization they are the biggest joke in MLB.

[RBi]

The Cubs are a laughingstock! As an organization they are the biggest joke in MLB.

Easy for a white sox to claim this as if it is a fact... But the FACT is that is your opinion. IT is my opinion that they are WITHOUT doubt in the lower half when it comes to best organizations. But Pirates, Devil Rays, Marlins and Royals would be on that list as well... but as I said, it is easier for a whitesox fan, and scorn ex-cubs fan to claim the cubs are the punchline of MLB.

And all this talent that we are forever talking about?!?! Where is it? Really??? To me there is a difference in potential talent, and flat out MLB caliber talent...

And I am not so sure we have that MLB caliber talent... Everyone is quick to say Derrek Lee?!?! What about Derrek??? or Aramis??? what about Aramis???

Well if that is true, would that make the Pirates and Marlins a bigger joke? since we got both of them for NOTHING?!?

Oh also, I want to say it again...

I am not saying Dusty should be our future... that would be insane... but if the outcome is not what we wanted/expected we need to move on, no reason to say he is the worse... because he isn't at the end of the day I don't want to hear about the talent that is on the field, I want to hear did you win? or lose?

and we don't win often enough... plain and simple.

Thanks dusty... for '03

And best of luck where ever you go...

[Whitesoxnut]

But the FACT is that is your opinion. IT is my opinion that they are WITHOUT doubt in the lower half when it comes to best organizations. But Pirates, Devil Rays, Marlins and Royals would be on that list as well... but as I said, it is easier for a whitesox fan, and scorn ex-cubs fan to claim the cubs are the punchline of MLB.

The difference is, of course, payroll. When you spend so much, when you charge the fans so much, when you fill the park so much, and you still find a way to consistently underperform? Then you have become a laughingstock. And your right. The Pirates are a joke. I'm not sure I'd call the Marlins a joke since they are playing good baseball. KC is a joke, no doubt about it.

But the Cubs are the biggest joke. And Dusty is the biggest joker. The Marlins have a team payroll under 15 m., Tampa 35 1/2 m, the Pirates 46 1/2 m, KC 47 m............the Cubs? 94 1/2 m., 10 m more in team spent dollars then the Sox. Who are only spending 84 m out of pocket.

The only other team in the top-10 who's becoming a punchline too is the Braves. Everyone else in the top-10 of payrolls is .500 or better. Im sorry, I try to find good things to say about them and try not to run them down all the time. But they suck! And the entire management team is responsible. Ive been thru this kinda thing with both teams. For years the Sox "sucked" as well.

[RBi]

Calling the braves a joke is funny to me....

They are playing bad ball no doubt, but I am not going to "join the bandwagon" and just because they are not playing good ball call them a joke..

But that is one of the many differences between you and I. I dont jump ship because things are bad... (you in November of 1984)


Were the White Sox 'a joke' before 2005?

How about the White Sox manager???

what level of "is a joke" does he fall under? or is he just class-less?

[RBi]

Also, if I had time.. which I might take time very soon, I would like to work up a spreadsheet with the payroll of the top 10 teams... and show how much of that payroll was wasted on players on the DL... I would be willing to bet the Cubs would fall on the list that would show that a lot of money was spent on players not able to perform to help the team win...

that is why I say you can not use payroll to moan and groan at a manager... Is it Dusty's fault that Lee got hurt? Nomar? Prior's elbow? Priors off season shoulder? Wood's... countless issues? how about Aramis? is it Dusty's fault that all that money was spent over the last 3 years... and each player spent alot of time (months in most cases) on the DL?

no... it is not..

So don't give me the "he had more talent, because the team was on the top 10 in payroll" Bologna...

Now, with that said, we replaced the trainer...

Pitcher issues... we need a new Pitching coach... plain and simple..

Manager? yes.. a new manager would help shake things up...

I am not campaigning for Dusty to keep his job... I am just saying... don't make it sound like Dusty was given a healthy all-star team... because he wasn't.

[Whitesoxnut]

Calling the braves a joke is funny to me....

Much funnier to you then their fans I bet. The Braves are 31-43.


They are playing bad ball no doubt, but I am not going to "join the bandwagon" and just because they are not playing good ball call them a joke..

My Buddies who are Cub fans are calling them much worse things then I am.



But that is one of the many differences between you and I. I dont jump ship because things are bad... (you in November of 1984)

Actually it was more like 1985. But, Im probably older then you and have felt more pain with the Cubs.:(


Were the White Sox 'a joke' before 2005?

How about the White Sox manager???

what level of "is a joke" does he fall under? or is he just class-less?

Often a joke. In fact Chicago sports teams have been a joke more often then not. Its the reason I still laugh hysterically for no reason on occasion.:crazy

Ozzie should shutup and manage. He's making a "joke" out of himself and he outa save the "no eeenglise" exuse for congressional testimony. Its hard to figure what level of joke he falls under. The whole entire silly incident has to finish evolving.:ughh

[RBi]

Much funnier to you then their fans I bet. The Braves are 31-43.

You missed my point totally... why can't a team just have a bad season? to me a "joke" using your reasons, would be because of a long string of bad things...

I would give the braves a free pass when it comes to having a rocky year... I think they earned that with what like 13 or 14 straight division titles...



My Buddies who are Cub fans are calling them much worse things then I am.


I am sure this is true... But there are different styles of fans... And I have never really been one to be the hateful negative type...


Actually it was more like 1985. But, I'm probably older then you and have felt more pain with the Cubs.:(

I just remember you saying before "after the 1984 season..." and yes, you are older than me. I was only turning 6 in November of '84


Often a joke. In fact Chicago sports teams have been a joke more often then not. Its the reason I still laugh hysterically for no reason on occasion.:crazy

Ozzie should shutup and manage. He's making a "joke" out of himself and he outa save the "no eeenglise" exuse for congressional testimony. Its hard to figure what level of joke he falls under. The whole entire silly incident has to finish evolving.:ughh

I agree with you on this more than I ever agreed with you on anything before... Nicely put...

I really think the main thing that keeps Ozzie safe is his ring... "thats the way it goes" i assume... but sometimes there is more important things in the game... and the image of a person or organization to me is one of those things..

Sometimes less is more, and in his case it seems the more he talks... the more trouble he seems to be getting himself into.

[rockin500]

i just think firing dusty is the cheap easy way out that in the end wont solve anything.

better players/pitchers may help more.

[Ubiquitous]

Will keeping Dusty solve anything?

[rockin500]

Will keeping Dusty solve anything?
no. but firing him in the middle of the season isnt going to do anything either. dont give him an extension, fine. I can live with that. but canning him right now is useless.

I'd be more inclined to jettison coaches, since they share culpability.

[Ubiquitous]

Again though is keeping him in the season useful?

Is he playing the players you want? Using the players in a way you want? Keeping the fans happy? If he isn't moving the team forward or making managerial decisions that will better inform the club in future moves then he is useless and should be replaced with somebody who is clear about his duties the rest of the way. Right now Dusty is basically auditioning for a new job somewhere. Does that mean he is going to make decisions that are in the best interest of the Cubs future or is he going to make moves that are an attempt to make him look good or to minimize his risk of looking bad?

[rockin500]

Again though is keeping him in the season useful?

Is he playing the players you want? Using the players in a way you want? Keeping the fans happy? If he isn't moving the team forward or making managerial decisions that will better inform the club in future moves then he is useless and should be replaced with somebody who is clear about his duties the rest of the way. Right now Dusty is basically auditioning for a new job somewhere. Does that mean he is going to make decisions that are in the best interest of the Cubs future or is he going to make moves that are an attempt to make him look good or to minimize his risk of looking bad?

yes hes playing the players i want. Keeping the fans happy isnt Hendry's job. The only way that happens is if he resigns, dusty gets canned AND mcphail gets canned.

He actually does use the bullpen as well as any other manager out there. At least this year he has. Of course, he actually has a pretty good bullpen, so that mya help.

The players I want playing a majority of the time:

D. Lee now that hes back, Aramis, Cedeno, Jones, barrett, and perhaps Walker. No one else I really care to see everyday.

[Whitesoxnut]

Are you seeing this spectacle today? Ive seen better AA teams then this collection. The Cubs under Dusty are becoming worse then "jokes". How are talented young pitchers going to develop to their potential with this gaggle behind them?

[Ubiquitous]

I have a certain way of listening to the game when I am at work. I turn the radio on and when the Cubs fall apart I turn it off. So generally the radio is off after the first or second inning. It saves me much aggrevation and stress. This team for about the last two months or so have been absolutely unwatchable and unlistenable. It is a dreadful team and it is getting to the point where I really don't care who is to blame. I don't care if it is all Dusty's fault some of it is his fault. Get rid of him, and do it now. At least that way I don't have to worry about whether or not they are going to bring him back next year.

[Whitesoxnut]

Right now I'm editing a video of my sons game from yesterday. In 10 minutes I'm going to go watch another game of his. When in my office, and I'm in it a lot, I turn the TV on and watch whatever game is on.

If your not watching this do yourself a favor and don't turn it on. First Murton boots one which allows runners to go to 2'nd and 3'rd, then Pierre throws a duck on a play to home that hits the mound, then Jones makes a lousy throw on an easy play to home, then an easy hop to the right side goes thru because Nevin and Walked thought the other was going to get it, Pierre has gotten on base twice and they cant score him. Its 5-0 MN.

And now this announcer is babbling about how no players are standing up to "Lead" the team. Excuse me! Isnt that the managers/coaches job? Its hilarious that Cubdom is still making excuses for this manager.

[Santo4HallofFame]

Are you seeing this spectacle today? Ive seen better AA teams then this collection. The Cubs under Dusty are becoming worse then "jokes". How are talented young pitchers going to develop to their potential with this gaggle behind them?


Your right.

Dusty's fault Murton can't handle a baseball. Then his fault Neifi intercedes a throw to third that he shouldnt have. Then misthrows to second. *see neifi post*

Dusty's fault for Blanco not being able to hand jones throw(not the best but I think he should've had it nonetheless.)

Dusty's fault for TWO veterans allowing a ball go right between.

I know the arguement it's his fault cause they are his players. I think Dusty is at a loss right now. As would anyone that was coaching this team right now. 99% of the cubs team is playing pathetic and don't deserve a 1/4 of their salary.

Keep Dusty, Get rid of 1/2 of the team.

[Ubiquitous]

Before the season started the Score interviewed Dusty Baker and one of the things that they talked about was fundamentals. Dusty went on record as saying his team will play the game the right way, that they will "know" how to play baseball and that they will know the fundamentals. He said his teams always do that even when he was in SanFran. Now then this team and the Cubs team the entire tenure of Dusty as manager have been poor when it comes to fundamentals. This team has made mistakes that have cost them runs and wins the entire time Dusty has been manager.

People have asked Corey Patterson and Jerry Hairston what are the differences between playing for the Cubs and their new team. It is a standard question that gets asked of anybody when they go to a new team. Both players basically said the same thing. The biggest difference was that on their new team they practiced. They worked on the fundamentals while on Dusty's team they didn't do that. So here is a guy that has gone on record as saying his team will be fundamentally sound yet according to his own players he has done very little to insure that happens. So yes poor plays and choices by players is Dusty's fault. By creating an atmosphere in which those mistakes are more likely to happen and then doing nothing to insure they won't happen again.

[Santo4HallofFame]

Before the season started the Score interviewed Dusty Baker and one of the things that they talked about was fundamentals. Dusty went on record as saying his team will play the game the right way, that they will "know" how to play baseball and that they will know the fundamentals. He said his teams always do that even when he was in SanFran. Now then this team and the Cubs team the entire tenure of Dusty as manager have been poor when it comes to fundamentals. This team has made mistakes that have cost them runs and wins the entire time Dusty has been manager.

People have asked Corey Patterson and Jerry Hairston what are the differences between playing for the Cubs and their new team. It is a standard question that gets asked of anybody when they go to a new team. Both players basically said the same thing. The biggest difference was that on their new team they practiced. They worked on the fundamentals while on Dusty's team they didn't do that. So here is a guy that has gone on record as saying his team will be fundamentally sound yet according to his own players he has done very little to insure that happens. So yes poor plays and choices by players is Dusty's fault. By creating an atmosphere in which those mistakes are more likely to happen and then doing nothing to insure they won't happen again.

I have never seen or heard those statements. Would like to know where I can see that or hear that myself. Because I am skeptical. Because if that was the case , I am sorry Dusty wouldn't have a job with even a Minor League team :lookitup

[Whitesoxnut]

Your right.

Dusty's fault Murton can't handle a baseball. Then his fault Neifi intercedes a throw to third that he shouldnt have. Then misthrows to second. *see neifi post*

Dusty's fault for Blanco not being able to hand jones throw(not the best but I think he should've had it nonetheless.)

Dusty's fault for TWO veterans allowing a ball go right between.

I know the argument it's his fault cause they are his players. I think Dusty is at a loss right now. As would anyone that was coaching this team right now. 99% of the cubs team is playing pathetic and don't deserve a 1/4 of their salary.

Keep Dusty, Get rid of 1/2 of the team.

Yes, in short it is the managers fault when a MLB team cant execute. Its even more his fault when a so-called professional team melts down and becomes a head case of blunders and under performance. Or is a manager just a figurehead and not responsible for anything? The Cubs have the third worst record in baseball right now.

Dusty is a likable person. Most everyone likes him and he's managing a team who's fans don't have real high expectations, "tho that is changing". I know Cub fans pride themselves on team loyalty, "why anyone would have blind loyalty to anything in MLB is beyond me", but I generally admire loyalty as one of the better human traits. I do have to say however that its this blind loyalty that will prevent the Cubs from ever amounting to anything. If the Sox would be playing like this I'd be making little Ozzie voodoo Dolls, screaming bloody murder, and would burn $100 before I gave it to Reinsdorf et. al.

MLB owners, players, and managers are all spoiled millionaires. They are the last ones I'd be loyal to if they took their fans for granted. We got one incompetent on the north side and one on the south side who's losing his mind. Let Ozzie keep his nonsense up and blow the pennant over it, then wait and see what I write then.

[burger eater]

So generally the radio is off after the first or second inning. It saves me much aggrevation and stress. This team for about the last two months or so have been absolutely unwatchable and unlistenable. It is a dreadful team and it is getting to the point where I really don't care who is to blame. I don't care if it is all Dusty's fault some of it is his fault. Get rid of him, and do it now. At least that way I don't have to worry about whether or not they are going to bring him back next year.

Be very afraid of a 5 game winning streak.

This team is unwatchable and almost completely unlikable. The Cubs are a pathetic $90 mil. punchline. Pray for 90-100 losses, at least then there's a chance that the hammer comes down on management.

[Lipsander]

Here's how we rectify the whole situation, but it will never happen. The Tribune needs to sell the team to an owner that cares about winning, not about making money. Then the new ownership needs to fire Andy McPhail and Jim Hendry, then Dusty has to go, all in that order.

[burger eater]

Dusty's never-ending parade of excuses continues...



"I know what I can do," he said. "My track record speaks for itself. It's not like I just started yesterday. It's a little disheartening how soon people forget, though, that I haven't had my team. I've had 11 starters, and six or seven have been rookies."

"Jim hasn't changed his mind," Baker said. "He knows what I can do. If I've got the horses, I'm going to win. Count it. That's been my record, [right]? I didn't lose all this—what I know—overnight."

"It's OK. I was in the same situation in San Francisco. I was in trouble there too. Give me horses, and if my horses stay healthy, I'll win."

[Lipsander]

I think I could win, managing a team with a few horses. Come on, he had Barry forever and Barry changes things when he's in the lineup, especially the few years he was He-man's stunt double.

[Whitesoxnut]

I think I could win, managing a team with a few horses. Come on, he had Barry forever and Barry changes things when he's in the lineup, especially the few years he was He-man's stunt double.

He's making a mistake with his snide double talk blaming Hendry, and his failure to take responsibility for the meltdown, "then again Dusty is no rocket scientist". Does he really think savvy baseball people think he is not responsible for the play of his team? Or that he had nothing to do with bringing players in? Or out? These "horses" are "horses" he had input in bringing in, and unlike Hendry he had 100% responsibility to develop.

Regardless of the facts Dusty will have a hard time managing another MLB team if he blames his bosses for his own failure.

[The Big C]

How can he complain about horses when he plays Neifi seemingly every game.

I know we don't have alot right now, but how is consistently playing your worst player going to help? I know this has been said over and over, but still...