Ozzie Guillen

[DoubleX]

I'm surprised not to see any threads here about Guillen completely chewing out a rookie pitcher because the guy failed to intentionally hit a batter in retaliation for Pierzynski being hit twice. I know Guillen is an old-school type of manager, but I don't believe anyone should be made to intentionally throw at someone else. A pitcher with a ball is a dangerous weapon, and if a pitcher does not feel comfortable with the idea of using his ability to intentionally hurt someone, then a manager should leave it at that and should most certainly not throw a tantrum and tear the guy a part for not hitting the batter (the guy did throw high and inside for the record).

Guillen is a great manager, no doubt about that. But he's done some classless things that make me think that I would never want to be a player on his team. No telling when he'll chew me out or rip me in the media. A player needs more confidence and support from a manager than that.

[Windy City Fan]

If someone deliberately throws at your guys, I have no problem with retaliation. It may not help or protect your guys for that game, but it will give other players down the road a reason to reconsider a beanball. Ozzie has ripped into some guys, and for the most part I applaud him. On the northside we have the exact opposite, a "player's" manager who coddles and protects the fragile pysches of his flock. If you don't produce or don't do your job Ozzie will find someone who will, and he may call you on it in public. I'd rather have that than Dusty who's misguided loyalty dictates he keep trotting out players like Neife Perez on a daily basis.

Ripping a rookie seems harsh, but we are talking about a 26 year old man here. He should be able to take a tongue lashing from his manager, especially since he did in fact fail to do his "job" that game.

[DoubleX]

I'm not saying it's not ok to retaliate, I'm saying that a manager should not force a pitcher to retaliate that is uncomfortable with that. From a strategic standpoint, retaliation is a part of the game. But throwing a baseball 90 MPH intentionally at someone is not for everyone. A manager should not force anyone to do it who doesn't want to do it, and certainly should not chew out the player for not doing it. I'm sure he could find someone one the staff who would be more comfortable with the idea.

[rockin500]

ozzie is a complete moron. but thats nothing new. I dont have a problem per se with ordering a retaliation, but to act as foolish as he did after the fact shows he has the maturity of a 12 year old.

why didnt vazquez do it anyways? use him, not a rookie who has severe control problems.

[mojorisin71]

Personally, I'd like to see a return to the days of Drysdale and Gibson, but if the rookie didn't want to throw at batters intentionally, it's very unprofessional of the manager to publicly chew him out.

[SoxSon]

Guillen is a great manager, no doubt about that. But he's done some classless things that make me think that I would never want to be a player on his team. No telling when he'll chew me out or rip me in the media. A player needs more confidence and support from a manager than that.

I agree, XX. Clearly, Guillen has some on-field acumen. It's off the field that has me wondering.

[Sweet Lou]

A player needs more confidence and support from a manager than that.
Ah, don't worry about it too much, that pitcher probably couldn't understand a word Ozzie was saying anyway! :D :D :D:p :crazy

[DoubleX]

I agree, XX. Clearly, Guillen has some on-field acumen. It's off the field that has me wondering.

Exactly. Terrific manager when it comes to what's happening on the field, but there is more to managing than that and I think at some point it will catch up to him. The way he reacted yesterday speaks volumes of his character to me. In the grand scheme of things, not hitting a batter is not a big deal at all, and it was just plain silly of Ozzie to get that upset over it.

[HammeRDrop]

Personally, I think it's ridiculous for Ozzie to react the way he did. I don't understand why the rookie had to do it, why not someone else? I just hope this doesn't mean he gets sent down and might have trouble getting back to the big club. It's a shame.

[DoubleX]

Personally, I think it's ridiculous for Ozzie to react the way he did. I don't understand why the rookie had to do it, why not someone else? I just hope this doesn't mean he gets sent down and might have trouble getting back to the big club. It's a shame.

I think he's already been sent back down, though the team said it was to make room for recent acquisition David Riske.

[Whitesoxnut]

I made my feelings known already. Im not going to resurrect it in another thread. The game is more then about winning or losing. For the record if MLB isnt going to protect our guys then were going to have to. Its the method I didnt like.

[Bench 5]

Ozzie is the best manager I've ever seen on either side in Chicago in the 30 years I've been watching baseball. I agree with him being pissed off. Vasquez should have retaliated right away. He said in the papers that his anger was directed at the whole team and that he yelled at his pitchers that they have to pay attention to what's going on in the game. It should be an unwritten rule that you protect your players but if guys don't do it on their own its the managers responsibility to make sure they don't let it happen again.

(By the way. Jerry Manuel never would have done that. That's why ......HE GONE!!.)

[Windy City Fan]

Tracy was probably selected for the cold hard fact that he was expendable. Who would you rather have get a 5 game suspension for beaning a guy after warnings were issued, Vasquez or Tracy? Add to it the fact that Tracy was going to get sent down anyway, and he makes the ideal guy to go drill someone and possibly face discipline on behalf of the team.

Pitching inside and occassionally drilling a guy when called for is part of the game and a big part of pitching. You have to defend your teammates, your own feelings on the issue don't matter. Tracy deserved to get chewed out over it, but it probably would've been better if Ozzie did it privately instead of on national TV.

[Astro]

Tracy was probably selected for the cold hard fact that he was expendable. Who would you rather have get a 5 game suspension for beaning a guy after warnings were issued, Vasquez or Tracy? Add to it the fact that Tracy was going to get sent down anyway, and he makes the ideal guy to go drill someone and possibly face discipline on behalf of the team.

Pitching inside and occassionally drilling a guy when called for is part of the game and a big part of pitching. You have to defend your teammates, your own feelings on the issue don't matter. Tracy deserved to get chewed out over it, but it probably would've been better if Ozzie did it privately instead of on national TV.
The pitchers job is to get the batter out... which is what he did I do believe... if Guillen has a problem with their team then have his fatass go out and start things... it was a dumb move and could have resulted in a fight, and injuries...

To say it was the rookie's fault is laughable, "Hey rookie, go hit that batter... dont try and get him out like you're supposed to" it goes against EVERYTHING they have been taught throughout high school, college and the minors...

Guillen is a joke and fits in well with the White Sox, the Cubs are the class of Chicago... no way in hell I'd want that disgrace of a manager to manage the Astros

[Windy City Fan]

I'm a Cub fan and I'd take Ozzie over Dusty in a heartbeat. If one of your guys is getting repeatedly plunked, a pitcher has to retaliate. Ozzie obviously sent Tracey in there for one reason, to drill Blalock. Tracey didn't listen to his manager and deserved to get chewed out. If you're given the bunt sign and you ignore it, you deserve to get chewed out irregardless of if you got a hit or not. The manager is there to call the shots and Ozzie made a call. You may disagree with it (I certainly don't), but a player's job is do what the manager tells him to do.

[rockin500]

I'm a Cub fan and I'd take Ozzie over Dusty in a heartbeat. If one of your guys is getting repeatedly plunked, a pitcher has to retaliate. Ozzie obviously sent Tracey in there for one reason, to drill Blalock. Tracey didn't listen to his manager and deserved to get chewed out. If you're given the bunt sign and you ignore it, you deserve to get chewed out irregardless of if you got a hit or not. The manager is there to call the shots and Ozzie made a call. You may disagree with it (I certainly don't), but a player's job is do what the manager tells him to do.
it was vazquez's job to retaliate, not tracey's.

[DoubleX]

I'm a Cub fan and I'd take Ozzie over Dusty in a heartbeat. If one of your guys is getting repeatedly plunked, a pitcher has to retaliate. Ozzie obviously sent Tracey in there for one reason, to drill Blalock. Tracey didn't listen to his manager and deserved to get chewed out. If you're given the bunt sign and you ignore it, you deserve to get chewed out irregardless of if you got a hit or not. The manager is there to call the shots and Ozzie made a call. You may disagree with it (I certainly don't), but a player's job is do what the manager tells him to do.

I agree, but I don't think you should make a pitcher retaliate that is uncomfortable with the idea. I'm sure there is someone on the team who is ok with it. And to react that way afterwards, in public, was just absurd. Intentionally hitting a batter is not for everyone, and Ozzie should realize and respect that. Taking walks are an even bigger part of the game, so I wonder if any of Ozzie's managers ever got on him like he did on Tracy about his 0.287 career OBP.

[Astro]

I'm a Cub fan and I'd take Ozzie over Dusty in a heartbeat. If one of your guys is getting repeatedly plunked, a pitcher has to retaliate. Ozzie obviously sent Tracey in there for one reason, to drill Blalock. Tracey didn't listen to his manager and deserved to get chewed out. If you're given the bunt sign and you ignore it, you deserve to get chewed out irregardless of if you got a hit or not. The manager is there to call the shots and Ozzie made a call. You may disagree with it (I certainly don't), but a player's job is do what the manager tells him to do.
ITS NOT LIKE TRACEY THREW IT DOWN THE MIDDLE EVERY PITCH!!!!!!!!!

My god, have you even seen the at-bat? He threw it inside 2 or 3 times but just missed the batter... its not like he deliberatly was like "screw guillen im just going to go up and pitch"

Does a player get chewed out if they pop a bunt out when given the sign? No, it is the manager's duty to know if a player is capable of what is asked of him, if its anyones fault its OZZIE GUILLEN's

[Southsider]

Guillen is a joke and fits in well with the White Sox, the Cubs are the class of Chicago... no way in hell I'd want that disgrace of a manager to manage the Astros

Yes, he fits in well leading the 2005 World Series champs. That sweep last fall was especially sweet.:waving

[rockin500]

Yes, he fits in well leading the 2005 World Series champs. That sweep last fall was especially sweet.:waving
leading the champs? hardly. he didnt have to do crap that entire postseason.

[baseball junkie]

Don't get the wrong impression about this post. I think pitchers should be free, if not encouraged to pitch inside and be aggressive.

The retaliation game, however, has to stop. Baseball is a family game. It is not professional wrestling.

Sean Tracey gets the worst of this whole situation. The 25-year-old righthander was having a fine cup of coffee in the bigs. His production can not be argued with, although his sample size is still small. His career in the organization may be over -- because of Guillen's instability.

That's why I am saying this, I am sick and tired of seeing "professional" athletes carrying out childish vendettas against each ohter. The fact that this beaning was ordered by the manager makes the situation even worse.

I am also aware that Ozzie Guillen is one of the best managers in the game right now. But his recent actions are unacceptable. As are the actions of MLB and MLB umpires in responding to these type of situations. Some umps eject the pitcher, some umps warn both managers -- neither of those options are sufficient.

Ozzie Guillen's actions have given baseball another black-eye when it least needed another one. His actions were irresponsible, irrational and not justified. If I were commissioner of this fine game I would hand down to Guillen a 25 game, unpaid suspension for his actions.

The next time a manager did something like this, I'd suspend him for 50 games. Then I think we'd see an end to this childish retaliation virtually overnight.

Why a 50 game suspension? When a player gets caught using drugs under MLB's new drug policy the first offense is punished with a 50 game suspension -- because the player has put a blot on the image of MLB. When a manager puts a blot on the appearance of MLB the consequences should be no different.

[Windy City Fan]

ITS NOT LIKE TRACEY THREW IT DOWN THE MIDDLE EVERY PITCH!!!!!!!!!

My god, have you even seen the at-bat? He threw it inside 2 or 3 times but just missed the batter... its not like he deliberatly was like "screw guillen im just going to go up and pitch"

Does a player get chewed out if they pop a bunt out when given the sign? No, it is the manager's duty to know if a player is capable of what is asked of him, if its anyones fault its OZZIE GUILLEN's

Yeah, I know he threw a few high and tight ones, but he also threw a lot that weren't high and tight. If he put Blalock on the ground 4 times in a row with some sweet chin music but never managed to connect I don't think Ozzie would've flipped. The message would've been sent, even if the results weren't exactly what Ozzie wanted.

Junkie: AJ was clearly being targeted, getting plunked two at bats in a row by a guy that wasn't having control problems. After the second beaning, the umps issue a warning to both teams - when the Sox had so far done nothing to warrant such a warning. I know the warning is given to discourage retaliation, but such a practice just means if you want to bean someone, do it early and do it first and then watch the other team get in trouble for retaliating.

I think the warning is why Ozzie waited until his starter, Vazquez was out of the game and he sent Tracey in to be the sacrificial lamb. He was going down to AAA anyway, so if someone is going to get suspended it might as well be him. Sounds cold, but it certainly makes sense.

A lot of people are harping on Vazquez not answering back earlier, but after the warning was issued, his hands were tied. I wouldn't be surprised if Ozzie actually told Vazquez, "Don't get involved. We'll get them later in the game." I don't know for sure if this occurred, but it seems like a crafty thing to do.

[flash143817]

Calling a guy out in front of the media is bush league. If the guy did the equivalent of "missing a sign" then it should be dealt with in private. Absolutely no need to call a guy out in front of everyone like that.


And I think Guillen has been so brash lately because he is letting all this success get to his head. He feels like he is invincible and on top of the world. Fact is he rode a hot pitching staff to a World Series and had very little to do with it. I was watching a White Sox game just a couple days ago and they were talking about their 3rd base coach Joey Cora and Ozzie said that Cora has more of an impact on the game's outcome than he does.

[Southsider]

he didnt have to do crap that entire postseason.

Neither did Dusty Baker! In Dusty we Trusty!:laugh

[Outta Here]

If I was that pitcher in the dugout getting roared at, I would have burst out cryin :mad:

Ozzie scares me to death :laugh

[baseball junkie]

How about if you were the pitcher in the dugout who had spent his whole life working and striving and sarcificing to get the big leagues and because of one insane manager your career might be over?

How would you feel then?

[DoubleX]

And I think Guillen has been so brash lately because he is letting all this success get to his head. He feels like he is invincible and on top of the world. Fact is he rode a hot pitching staff to a World Series and had very little to do with it. I was watching a White Sox game just a couple days ago and they were talking about their 3rd base coach Joey Cora and Ozzie said that Cora has more of an impact on the game's outcome than he does.

This is not a recent thing. Ozzie time and time again acts completely immature, crass, and without the class and respectability that a team and fans should expect from a manager (calling out players in the media, calling out ex-players in the media, calling people "homo" and such, the whole A-Rod thing in the offseason). Things are going good now for the White Sox, and a lot of that has to do with Ozzie's managing, but at some point the team will struggle and who knows how Ozzie will deal with it. If I were a player, I don't think I'd want to play for Ozzie. I can't count on him to treat me with respect and dignity.

[Windy City Fan]

How about if you were the pitcher in the dugout who had spent his whole life working and striving and sarcificing to get the big leagues and because of one insane manager your career might be over?

How would you feel then?

I woulda just drilled the guy like my boss told me to do. If I failed, it would've been with 4 straight pitches that put the guy in the dirt.

I'll agree Ozzie shouldn't have chewed him out in public like that, but Tracey definately deserved a tongue lashing for failing to follow simple and direct orders. However, sometimes a public dressing down sends a message that a more discreet method won't send.

[rockin500]

I woulda just drilled the guy like my boss told me to do. If I failed, it would've been with 4 straight pitches that put the guy in the dirt.

I'll agree Ozzie shouldn't have chewed him out in public like that, but Tracey definately deserved a tongue lashing for failing to follow simple and direct orders. However, sometimes a public dressing down sends a message that a more discreet method won't send.
yep, sends the message that he remains the boor.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Ozzie acted like a clown, once again. Lets say he did want to chew out that pitcher's ass, he could have done it differently, not a public display. You can bet some of his own players thought he used the wrong appoach but will not speak up.

This is Ozzie the all time White Sox career leader in falling asleep while on base, a victim of the old "hidden ball" trick

June 23, 1989.........first base
August 15, 1989..... first base
May 13, 1991.........second base.

[Outta Here]

You heard about what he said of Jay Mariotti (on ESPN.com)...

"What a piece of (beep) he is, (beeping) fag" :eek:

Mariotti gets on everybody's nerves but has Guillen gone 2 far???

[DoubleX]

You heard about what he said of Jay Mariotti (on ESPN.com)...

"What a piece of (beep) he is, (beeping) fag" :eek:

Mariotti gets on everybody's nerves but has Guillen gone 2 far???

Mariotti is extremely irritating and I'm sure there are a number of Chicago athletes that would love to get a piece of him (AJ Pierzynski had some comments for him a few weeks ago on ESPN's PTI). But Ozzie has once again showed his lack of class. The guy act likes a child and seems to have the emotional maturity of a child. He's also a hypocrite. In the past he says he doesn't care how people feel about him, but then he responds to criticism in this childish and immature manner? I also don't buy his excuse that the term has a different meaning in Venezuela. The guy has been here for like 25 years and is now a U.S. Citizen. He knows very well the connotations attached to his use of the word.

Ozzie is an emotional powder keg, and sooner or later it will catch up to him and it won't be pretty.

[chrismarullo]

I also don't buy his excuse that the term has a different meaning in Venezuela. The guy has been here for like 25 years and is now a U.S. Citizen. He knows very well the connotations attached to his use of the word.
.

My girlfriend is from Venezuela and she said that the word "fag" doesn't exist there. She never heard it until she came to the states.

[Brannu]

I'm wondering why he would deem it important and necessary to throw at a batter in a blowout. That game was over in the third inning. Obviously there was not a Cardinals pitcher that was doing anything worth watching in that game and you know that Tony La Russa wasn't telling pitchers to intentionally throw at Pierzinsky of all people. Jim Thome has hit The Cardinals stupid ... if you wanted to intentionally throw at anyone, it would be him. So, why is retaliation necessary in a game that was over 6 innings before the official ending?

[SF Kid]

My girlfriend is from Venezuela and she said that the word "fag" doesn't exist there. She never heard it until she came to the states.We're so creative over here! :p

[The Big C]

To be fair, Mariotti really is a piece of [poo]. But the other comment should not be tolerated, especially from someone who is supposed to be a leader. Did anyone see his "apology"?