Hell on Earth

[foxxx]

.............is watching the 2006 Atlanta Braves, this is the worst I have ever seen them play, hopefully there is another strike so that we can have another get out of jail free card



but we totally would have beat the Expos that year anyway


seriously this is hell, this is essentially the same team as last year but they are playing horrible, HORRIBLE, I know the Mets are damn good this year but we climbed back to 3 1/2 games out and then fell back to 11

maybe we really do miss Leo, honestly, I think thats what it is

[runningshoes]

You want Hell on Earth?

Come spend a day touring the slums and shanties with me in Manila. :D

I wish all I had to complain about was how my team is doing, but I can't complain, my team is not doing to bad. :laugh

I ran into a guy from Atlanta decked out in his cap and shirt yesterday and I told him the ride is over. He just laughed and said nothing lasts forever.

I think talking to him might be good for you. :laugh

[runningshoes]

Double post

[jpenrod]

You want Hell on Earth?

Come spend a day touring the slums and shanties with me in Manila. :D

I wish all I had to complain about was how my team is doing, but I can't complain, my team is not doing to bad. :laugh

I ran into a guy from Atlanta decked out in his cap and shirt yesterday and I told him the ride is over. He just laughed and said nothing lasts forever.

I think talking to him might be good for you. :laugh

Ahh a sane poster on this forum! Thanks RunningShoes. Iam as big of a Braves fan as there is, but you had to know this day was coming and the reality is it is not as bad as it could be, they actually have a future.

[Brownie31]

Perhaps some of you Braves fans are either too young to
remember the 1970s and 1980s or have forgotten, but that
was when the Braves were really awful except for a few
seasons like 1982.

I guess 14 straight division championships have left Braves
fans as spoiled rotten as Alabama football fans! War Eagle!

Brownie31

[jpenrod]

Perhaps some of you Braves fans are either too young to
remember the 1970s and 1980s or have forgotten, but that
was when the Braves were really awful except for a few
seasons like 1982.

I guess 14 straight division championships have left Braves
fans as spoiled rotten as Alabama football fans! War Eagle!

Brownie31

You know I was thinking the same thing. foxx said that this is the worst he has ever seen them play which leads me to the conclusion that he is either too young to remember the Braves of the 80's or he did not become a fan until after 1991. I myself am too young to remember the Braves of the 1970's but I do recall the late 80's and believe me when I say, this is not the worst they can play, this is not rock bottom, this is not the end of the world, this is not hell on earth.

I remember the joke in the 80's, "I had two tickets to the Braves game and stuck it under the windshield of my car with a sign that said free tickets. When I came back to the car there were 5 more!" This joke was not a knock on the Braves fans (as it may be now) but the team was simply that bad.

[Brownie31]

You know I was thinking the same thing. foxx said that this is the worst he has ever seen them play which leads me to the conclusion that he is either too young to remember the Braves of the 80's or he did not become a fan until after 1991. I myself am too young to remember the Braves of the 1970's but I do recall the late 80's and believe me when I say, this is not the worst they can play, this is not rock bottom, this is not the end of the world, this is not hell on earth.

I remember the joke in the 80's, "I had two tickets to the Braves game and stuck it under the windshield of my car with a sign that said free tickets. When I came back to the car there were 5 more!" This joke was not a knock on the Braves fans (as it may be now) but the team was simply that bad.

jpenrod:

Wasn't there also a bumper sticker that read: "Go Braves and
take the Falcons with you"?

It is sure easy to become spoiled by success!

Brownie31

[Go Bravos!!!#1]

I haven't thrown in the towel on '06 yet. It's still the middle of June and plenty of time for things to change.

However, this still means that JS is going to have to make some deals. A Solomon Torres , Fuentes, or Nathan would be a good strength to the bullpen.
Plus a couple of names like Will Startup and Manny Acosta come to mind.
The Braves disabled Reitsma and already promoted Phil Stockman to the big club. He has pitched awesome in AAA.

As for the rotation, Smoltz and Hudson are going to be there and win you, or at least keep you in, important games. The bottom 3 of the rotation is very suspect. Especially Sosa, who you can pretty much count on for a loss, when he pitches. In a few days Chuck James will be called up and Sosa, can either be sent down to work on his stuff or moved to the pen where he can try and work well in a long or middle relief role.
James should stabilize the rotation, as he continues to improve each outing. Then after him you have Horacio who (minus one outing) has pitched great since coming off the DL. After him you have Thomson, who will most likely be replaced with Davies when he is healthy, which shouldn't be too far away.
That should give us a solid front 5.

As for the lineup. As much as I have defended Brian Jordan and love to see him play. His lack of skills have now over-weighed his great clubhouse influence. He should be talked to by the Braves into retiring. That way he'd have a great send-off. Then the Braves could call up Scott Thorman. He could start in LF. Then when Lefty's pitch (LaRoche's day off because he can't hit leftys) Thorman could play 1B. In the minors he has shown he can hit leftys though he is lefty himself. Then Diaz could play LF. And in the 8th inning when we have a lead, the braves could send out Langerhans to play LF because of his great defense.
Let's face it. Thorman is hitting over .300 at AAA with big power numbers, he's not going to do any worse than Jordan is. If he could come up and hit .280 with power that would be as much as the Braves need. Plus Scott has cut down his k-numbers a lot, something the Braves would be thankful for. Every year Thorman is better and better. Bye Bye Brian and hello Scottie.
Also, use Giles as trade bate. This is a must. He's gonna be overpaid, and he can't hit leadoff, the only place the Braves can hit him. Let Wilson Betemit take over full time at 2nd. His defense is not going to be as great as Giles, but it won't be very far off, the guy is athletic enough to play nearly anywhere. The guy deserves an everyday job. The worst he's gonna do is hit .280 and that 40 points higher than out current leadoff man, and plus Wilson has more power than Giles. And the leads to more leadoff extra base hits, which leads to more early scoring runs. Then to fill Betemit's bench role, you call up Martin Prado, who Bobby Cox adores and let him blossom in the bigs.

After all this, I suspect the Braves team to look this way.

Lineup
2B Wilson Betemit
SS Edgar Renteria
3B Chipper Jones
CF Andruw Jones
C Brian McCann
RF Jeff Francoeur
LF Scott Thorman
1B Adam LaRoche

Bench
OF Matt Diaz
OF Ryan Langerhans
INF/OF/C Pete Orr
C Todd Pratt
INF Martin Prado

Rotation
1R John Smoltz
2R Tim Hudson
3L Chuck James
4L Horacio Ramirez
5R Kyle Davies

LR L Will Startup/R Jorge Sosa/L Macay McBride
LR R Phil Stockman
MR R Tyler Yates/Other
MR R Chad Paronto
MR L Mike Remlinger
SU *Trade*/Ken Ray

CL R Ken Ray/*Trade*

If we can get this in-order we have a good shot at staying with the Mets for the division race. So I'm am far from giving up at this point. But they need to get going very soon.

[jpenrod]

jpenrod:

Wasn't there also a bumper sticker that read: "Go Braves and
take the Falcons with you"?

It is sure easy to become spoiled by success!

Brownie31

Ahhh, yes that was at a time that the sport in town was the Atlanta Hawks of the NBA. My how the times have changed! :laugh

[jpenrod]

I haven't thrown in the towel on '05 yet.

Well heck, if we are talking '05 I will not throw in the towel until the 18th inning of game 4 of the NLDS in Houston. By the way I am picking the White Sox to win thier first championship since 1917 by beating the 'Stros making thier first WS appeareance....EVER!

[KCGHOST]

Yeah, Braves fans are having it tough. Kind of hard to sympathize when you realize the last several years they haven't bothered to sell-out their play-off games.

[jwkfs]

After all this, I suspect the Braves team to look this way.

Lineup
2B Wilson Betemit
SS Edgar Renteria
3B Chipper Jones
CF Andruw Jones
C Brian McCann
RF Jeff Francoeur
LF Scott Thorman
1B Adam LaRoche

Bench
OF Matt Diaz
OF Ryan Langerhans
INF/OF/C Pete Orr
C Todd Pratt
INF Martin Prado

Rotation
1R John Smoltz
2R Tim Hudson
3L Chuck James
4L Horacio Ramirez
5R Kyle Davies

LR L Will Startup/R Jorge Sosa/L Macay McBride
LR R Phil Stockman
MR R Tyler Yates/Other
MR R Chad Paronto
MR L Mike Remlinger
SU *Trade*/Ken Ray

CL R Ken Ray/*Trade*

If we can get this in-order we have a good shot at staying with the Mets for the division race. So I'm am far from giving up at this point. But they need to get going very soon.


If only we could see this lineup now. Everyone loves Bobby and he's a great manager, but he seems a little hesitant to make changes and bring in young guys to give them a chance. Last year we had Mondesi and Jordan in the OF, and now we have Jordan and Reistma struggling. Call up some guys and give them a chance -- remember what Francoeur, Johnson, and Langerhans did for us last year?

Edit: Another place where you have a veteran blocking a rookie is Pratt at backup catcher. I thought Pena did a superb job when McCan was hurt, at least offensively. I don't know if he's as good at calling the game or defensively, but he deserves a shot. A quick check shows that Pratt is batting .154 versus Lefties, which is usually when McCan gets the day off.

[Go Bravos!!!#1]

Well heck, if we are talking '05 I will not throw in the towel until the 18th inning of game 4 of the NLDS in Houston. By the way I am picking the White Sox to win thier first championship since 1917 by beating the 'Stros making thier first WS appeareance....EVER!

I meant '06, typo sorry.:waving

[skeletor]

If only we could see this lineup now. Everyone loves Bobby and he's a great manager, but he seems a little hesitant to make changes and bring in young guys to give them a chance. Last year we had Mondesi and Jordan in the OF, and now we have Jordan and Reistma struggling. Call up some guys and give them a chance -- remember what Francoeur, Johnson, and Langerhans did for us last year?

Edit: Another place where you have a veteran blocking a rookie is Pratt at backup catcher. I thought Pena did a superb job when McCan was hurt, at least offensively. I don't know if he's as good at calling the game or defensively, but he deserves a shot. A quick check shows that Pratt is batting .154 versus Lefties, which is usually when McCan gets the day off.

the next few weeks..up around the all star break, should reveal which way the braves will travel on...they could get hot, plug a few holes with some deals..and come up with number 15....or they can end it at 14...and begin to re tool for the next few seasons...heck, it's beeeeeen a great ride..

how can anyone be unhappy with that ?
:eek:

[grizzly451]

I can't speak for all Braves fans, but I know the fans in and around Atlanta are pretty apathetic when it comes to the team. Most of the assume things will just continue on and on.

Personally I think it would be good for younger Braves' fans, and most fans around Atlanta, for the team to miss the postseason for a few years. Get people to understand that it really means something.

Anyone remember what the record LOW turnout for Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium was for a single game in, I think, 1975?

I'll go ahead and give you a hint.. it was below 800 people.

Until the Braves current run they had a big problem selling tickets and filling the stadium. Then with all the success things changed, but people just are too used to winning.


-----------

That said, I really want the organization to jump on getting some trades, promotions going. They keep talking about it, so go ahead and do it. Give some of the guys burning up the minors a chance. If nothing else I can't believe Scott Thorman STILL hasn't gotten a call-up. Bobby can get a little too attached to the veterans that play for him (Jordan).

The next few weeks should be pretty interesting...

Back in 1993 when the Braves got McGriff at the all-star break, or around it anyway, the Braves finished the second half of the season 50-17. Of course considering the players they had then you could see why.

They also had TWO good closers that year, McMichaels and Wohlers (I think Wohlers, but currently can't look it up). Both got close to 20 saves a piece whatever their names were. ;)

[jpenrod]

I can't speak for all Braves fans, but I know the fans in and around Atlanta are pretty apathetic when it comes to the team. Most of the assume things will just continue on and on.

Personally I think it would be good for younger Braves' fans, and most fans around Atlanta, for the team to miss the postseason for a few years. Get people to understand that it really means something.

Anyone remember what the record LOW turnout for Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium was for a single game in, I think, 1975?

I'll go ahead and give you a hint.. it was below 800 people.

Until the Braves current run they had a big problem selling tickets and filling the stadium. Then with all the success things changed, but people just are too used to winning.


-----------

That said, I really want the organization to jump on getting some trades, promotions going. They keep talking about it, so go ahead and do it. Give some of the guys burning up the minors a chance. If nothing else I can't believe Scott Thorman STILL hasn't gotten a call-up. Bobby can get a little too attached to the veterans that play for him (Jordan).

The next few weeks should be pretty interesting...

Back in 1993 when the Braves got McGriff at the all-star break, or around it anyway, the Braves finished the second half of the season 50-17. Of course considering the players they had then you could see why.

They also had TWO good closers that year, McMichaels and Wohlers (I think Wohlers, but currently can't look it up). Both got close to 20 saves a piece whatever their names were. ;)

The only problem with the philosophy of "the Braves miss the playoffs and the fans can then appreciate the success" is that the only fans that will stick it out are those of us appreciating the success. Atlanta is a very Transient city and so the fan base there is transient as well. The bulk of the "fans"support the team because they are successful and fun and fashionable, as soon as they hit a tough time many of the fans will find something else to pass thier time. Se La Vie.

[Go Bravos!!!#1]

Anybody see that article, where Remlinger snapped, at a question about if Chipper could have caught the ball. I hope the clubhouse isn't gonna lose it's chemistry, because once that happens, the team can't win.

[Go Bravos!!!#1]

Here's a Link (http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sp...615braves.html) to that article.

[Go Bravos!!!#1]

We can't get swept by the Marlins tonight. We have to get up, dust ourselves off. And play well tonight. As hard as it may be to do this, they must to send a message that we are not going to roll over and let this season pass us by.

I also think JS needs to make a trade soon to show the team he is gung-ho behind them.

[Go Bravos!!!#1]

...and plus I got the new avatar of the TV Show Classic "Soap", so hey maybe that will help change our luck. :waving :cool:

[grizzly451]

The only problem with the philosophy of "the Braves miss the playoffs and the fans can then appreciate the success" is that the only fans that will stick it out are those of us appreciating the success. Atlanta is a very Transient city and so the fan base there is transient as well. The bulk of the "fans"support the team because they are successful and fun and fashionable, as soon as they hit a tough time many of the fans will find something else to pass thier time. Se La Vie.


That really sums up part of what I was saying better then how I was trying to say it. The whole 'transient' part of the people of Atlanta that is. You certainly can't say the bulk of them are really that loyal. The extremely poor ticket sales in the 1980's when the team was doing so badly is partly an example of that

I would go so far as to say the Falcons are really the 'fashionable' team in Atlanta right now. Even though the Braves still have very solid ticket sales each year, the lack of sellouts in the postseason really says a lot I think.

I think if Blank could get his hands on the team it would do a lot in getting the people of Atlanta more excited about baseball.

[jwkfs]

Here's a Link (http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sp...615braves.html) to that article.

Here's a link that works :D clicky (http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/stories/0615braves.html)

[jpenrod]

That really sums up part of what I was saying better then how I was trying to say it. The whole 'transient' part of the people of Atlanta that is. You certainly can't say the bulk of them are really that loyal. The extremely poor ticket sales in the 1980's when the team was doing so badly is partly an example of that

I would go so far as to say the Falcons are really the 'fashionable' team in Atlanta right now. Even though the Braves still have very solid ticket sales each year, the lack of sellouts in the postseason really says a lot I think.

I think if Blank could get his hands on the team it would do a lot in getting the people of Atlanta more excited about baseball.

You are right about the Falcons. Atlanta has always been a football first city and GA a football first state.

[Francoeurstein]

Brave's Suck it's over.

[Go Bravos!!!#1]

Keep the faith.:lookitup

[Tomahawk Dynasty]

Haha. The funny thing is the year before our Division Title streak started, the Braves lost 97 games. That was in 1990.

I don't see the Bravos losing 97 games this year.

I guess 14 years is a long time to watch the Braves, but some of us have been watching a lot longer than that.

Hell, I can still remember Braves attendance hitting below 10k on clear, sunny, weekends day games.