Felix!!

[ichiro262]

Today King Felix finally delivered on the goods and threw a complete game with 9 Ks in a win over the Angels. I watched the game and I have to say it was a thrill. He was making guys look silly with his curve and change and then busting them in off the plate with 96 mph heaters. It was clearly his best start of the year and it put his record this season at 6-6. Maybe most impressively: he did it all throwing only 94 pitches. I know it would be ungodly for him to pitch at that level all season, but what do you guys think this means for him now?

[Seattle1]

First career complete game. Now that he's done it once, he knows he can do it again. Huge confidence builder. He's got the tools, and now it appears he is really developing some good discipline to go along with that.

[SABR Matt]

The problem this year has not been "discipline" or tools...it's been very VERY poor coaching. The Mariners have been INSISTING that King Felix throw 65-80% fastballs all season long and the AL, knowing they have no chance to hit his off-speed pitches...not one chance at all...has been sitting dead red all year, waiting for and cheating on any fastball. Consequently, Felix' fastball has been getting beaten and smoked all over the place all year...only just now are the Mariners starting to realize that to be effective, King Felix needs to set guys up with his 80 mph change-up with sinking action, his 77 mph yellow hammer, and his 84 mph slider, and only when ahead should he show the fastball (at least early in the game).

With that in mind, I fully expect King Felix to be completely dominant for most of the rest of his starts this season.

[Seattle1]

You might be right about problems with the coaching, but I do also see where he is also going through a maturation process of his own, which is very encouraging. I didn't think we'd see a complete game out of him this season.

[SABR Matt]

Well...it was the Angels, whose offense sucks...so I'm not getting overly excited or anything. But yes, he seems more willing to mix his pitches lately than he was even last year.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Well...it was the Angels, whose offense sucks...so I'm not getting overly excited or anything. But yes, he seems more willing to mix his pitches lately than he was even last year.
Come on Matt! A major league team is a major league team, right? I hope this a sign for the future. I just picked him up off of the waiver wire for my fantasy baseball team.

[SABR Matt]

Tell that to the Royals. :D

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Tell that to the Royals. :D
Touche...:laugh

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I wonder how much pressure Felix was feeling being "the best young pitcher since Dwight Gooden"? I'm sure the M's won't make the same mistakes the Mets did with Doc. :rolleyes:

[Seattle1]

I hope Matt is right that he will be completely dominant for the rest of the season. Maybe he has really turned a corner and will end up 20-6, who knows. If the Mariners have any chance of contending this year, we'd need that kind of emergence from Felix, imo. Like a butterfly coming out of a cocoon!

:clapping

[SABR Matt]

I'm sure he STILL feels pressure every time he starts...but with the Mariners playing better baseball even when he doesn't start, it might be getting easier for him.

[ichiro262]

It definitely is a combination of the two (Felix coming together and the team playing smarter). FOR ONCE, Hargrove made a move that seems to be paying great dividends: moving Beltre to second. He is seeing a lot of fastballs with Ichiro setting up camp at first and he is having a lot more success. I'm nervous about the season right now though because the team is on the brink and about to face a team who has dominated them this season (Oakland).

[Rennie Stennett]

I'm nervous about the season right now though because the team is on the brink and about to face a team who has dominated them this season (Oakland).

The bad news is we are at OAK for three games, where we have trouble regularly.

The good news is Zito worked Sunday, so we won't have to face him this time. He owns us.

[SF Kid]

Felix gonna pitch against the Giants? Anybody know which day of the series he'll pitch? I'm going to the Friday night and Saturday games and it'd be fun to see Barry hit a HR off the kid! :)

Speaking of Felix...I can't wait for this weekend.

[Rennie Stennett]

13 @ OAK, 7:05 Moyer
14 @ OAK, 7:05 Piniero
15 @ OAK, 12:35 Washburn
16 vs S.F. 7:05 Meche
17 vs S.F. 1:05 King Felix
18 vs S.F. 1:05 Moyer

[SF Kid]

13 @ OAK, 7:05 Moyer
14 @ OAK, 7:05 Piniero
15 @ OAK, 12:35 Washburn
16 vs S.F. 7:05 Meche
17 vs S.F. 1:05 King Felix
18 vs S.F. 1:05 MoyerCool. Thanks.

I guess I get to see Felix vs Bonds on Saturday. :cool:

[Mariner Fan]

The bad news is we are at OAK for three games, where we have trouble regularly.

The good news is Zito worked Sunday, so we won't have to face him this time. He owns us.

+1 ....Stinking A's :mad: . This is our big chance to move up in the AL West.

[mtortolero]

Hi all M´s fans. Here in Venezuela some people are very nervous about King Felix because our local press put high expectations on his season.
I think that for a 20 years old guy he is doing a great job regarding K/9 and BB/9 when you compare both ratios with Liriano but failing in Hr/9 (doubling Liriano, much more keeping in mind he is throwing in Seattle´s park.
I have two concerns:
1.- He still keeps the ball on the ground enough to have almost the same GB/FB ratio than Liriano (2.21 vs 2.04) but he almost double Liriano´s hits allowed (120 vs 71) and this thing tells me that infield defense is not doing their job , at least when he is pitching . But Seattle's defense in the infield looks a lot better than Twins. What is the problem here?
2.- He is making a nice job against RHB (243 avg, 643 OPS in 202 AB) but lefties are destroying him (303 avg, 885 OPS in 234 AB). BTW, looks a little weird he has more AB against lefties hitters than from righthand hitters.
Any comentary will be welcome. Thanx
Manuel

[SABR Matt]

The problem is that Felix is giving up HARD grounders...his pitch sequences have been too predictable (he's throwing way too many fastballs and shaking off Johjima's better pitch calls) resulting in a lot of very crisply hit one hoppers to center field (one bounce on the infield dirt and it's all the way out to Reed/Jones) and booming home runs when they can get under one of his fastballs.

He needs to throw about half as many fastballs as he's throwing right now and learn to use his curveball/change-up/slider more than half the time instead of less than a third of the time.

[mtortolero]

SABR Matt
I was doing a benchmark between Liriano and King Felix using ESPN player card including Insider information (including pitching card) and what you say looks correct.

Liriano stuff, including % of use is:

Fastball 49 %
Slider 34 %
Change up 17 %
The interesting thing here is how he throws depending the situation:
First Pitch: 65% fastball, 23% slider, 12% change up
Two strikes: 33 % fastball, 50% slider, 18% change up
Ahead : 38 % fastball, 43 % slider, 19% change up
Behind: 53% fastball , 32 % slider, 16 % change up
Depending the arm of the batter:
RHB: 50% fastball, 28% slider, 22% change up (.194 avg, 507 OPS, 73 AB)
LHB: 46% fastball, 52% slider, 2% change up (247 avg, 507 OPS, 289 AB)

Hernandez stuff, including % of use is:

Fastball 60 %
Curve 20%
Slider 6%
Change up 12 %
Other 2%
How he throws depending the situation:
First Pitch: 64% fastball, 20% curve, 5% slider, 10% change up, 0% other
Two strikes: 54% fastball, 26% curve, 9% slider, 9 % change up, 2% other
Ahead : 56% fastball, 24% curve, 8% slider, 10% change up, 2% other
Behind: 69% fastball, 10% curve, 5% slider, 14% change up, 3% other
And most important, depending the arm of the batter:
RHB: 62% fastball, 25% curve, 6% slider, 5% change up, 1% other
(.243 avg, 620 OPS , 202 AB)
LHB: 58% fastball, 14% curve, 6% slider, 18% change up, 3% other
(303 avg, 885 OPS, 234 AB)

Can you note something in this last two lines?

I don`t know if Liriano have better stuff than Hernandez but looks as he is mastering better his throws depending the situation and specially the arm of who is in the batter box.
Hernandez idepends in excess of his fastball, and other teams has fall in account that he does not knows how to throw to LHB, looking in the incredible number of LHB AB he is confronting (234 vs 202 by RHB).
Liriano against LHB use the slider as main skill and then his fastball and almost never the change up.
Hernandez against LHB use an excesive % of fastballs and change up (probably fastball change up) without increase sliders, who is the type of throw that tight those hitters and then you see that 26 of 37 XBH has come from LHB, including 13 of 15 Hr.
Has someone is Seattle coaching staff working on this? Hernandez must g back to minors to learn this or Mariners are enough smart to try to correct this while he is in the majors.

[SABR Matt]

He'll never see the minor leagues again as long as his results are tolerable (which at the moment they still are)...but part of the reason Felix can't get lefties out and uses his fastball too much is that everyone in the Mariner coaching staff is telling him he has to pitch the "right way" which in their dogmatic minds is "Set up your breaking stuff with located 97 mph fastballs"..they make him throw 80% fastballs in the first two or three innings (the times he's most likely to get pounded or at least throw a lot of pitches) to set up the game for his breaking stuff and he's being forced to learn to locate his fastball (his control of that pitch is borderline) on the job instead of being allowed to use his other pitchers more fully.