Get Ready

[RCSK]

I find it interesting how most hitters don’t know how to get ready on really good pitching (or on a fastball). For example, at last nights game the other teams pitchers almost threw a no hitter against our team. It was amazing it was like our hitters were in a fantasy world. But, the reality of how much force it takes to hit a really good fastball hopefully came upon them and me. Also, our team is made up of all kinds of players (some from minor leagues, division 1 schools, junior colleges, and so on). It was funny everybody that came back to the dugout was making excuses. For example, one guy came back to the dugout (after his strike out) and said this is not fair because the other teams coach pays there players and that’s why they have such good pitchers. The funny thing is I’ am the only one last night to get a hit. I got one at bat and went 1 for 1. I have to admit I got a reality check pretty fast. The first pitch to me I felt I was late and told myself I have to get ready!!! Second pitch I barely missed it. The next pitch I was ready and hit a single. The morale of this story is it really takes a lot of force to hit a good fastball. So, get ready or go back to the dugout!!!

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/Animation2.50b.gif (http://www.theimagehosting.com)




advise requested

[RCSK]

mark your private message box is full!

[Mark H]

I deleted a couple.

[fungo22]

advise requested Good swing. More tension/stability in your front arm. Seems to be a little bit of slop there. Can't see from this angle, but did you loose your tilt and have to make a last instant adjustment by dropping your back shoulder?

Welcome back.

[RCSK]

The back shoulder really helps me out in this swing. The position of the back arm is huge.

[fungo22]

The back shoulder really helps me out in this swing. That's a pretty good paraphrase of what I said.

The position of the back arm is huge. Yes? Is there more you wish to say? Or are you going to play the Nyman role and riddle me this?

[RCSK]

yep, I could rotate into footplant better. Which, I think would help the front leg block better. Although, I do like the rotation of the middle.

[fungo22]

Yeah, I saw your universal arm action and started looking for what was giving you time to engage in it. I saw the front arm giving a bit and focused on that. But you're right: I think it is more an issue of your rotation taking a little too long to get started. However only you know whether the front leg is providing the stability you needed. I looked at that (knowing your past) and it looked pretty good to me. As did the rotation once it got started.

When I asked if you had more to say, I was talking about your riddle-me-this, dangle-a-fragment-of-information-in front-of-them-so-they-have-to-drag-it-out-of-you comment about the hugeness of the back arm position. I'm a little older and a lot crankier than when you left and ain't playing. Is the Greatest Drill giving you a back arm fettish that is occupying your focus and keeping your front side/front arm from taking over the swing in a timely manner?

[RCSK]

I think the swing looks pretty quick to me. I don't think the back elbow leads to far because of the position of the back arm. The reason the elbow drops down a little bit is because of late rotation into footplant. But, I do a pretty good job of stoping the elbow from leading to far. I need to learn how to rotate of my back hip better. I have been doing some rotational exercises which have helped me.

[fungo22]

I think the swing looks pretty quick to me. I counted 5 frames last night and a little over 4 today. It's getting quicker.

The reason the elbow drops down a little bit is because of late rotation into footplant. This is a good paraphrase of what I said.

But, I do a pretty good job of stoping the elbow from leading to far. I agree.

I need to learn how to rotate of my back hip better. I have been doing some rotational exercises which have helped me There's an exercise to help you rotate only one hip?

As a said, it's a good swing. If my sons had such a swing, I would have nothing to say about it. I need to quit staying up so late. Nevertheless, I still think getting the rotation started and the bottom hand/front arm engage before the back elbow has a chance to drop has more to do with avoiding bat drag than the position of the back arm. Makes for a quicker swing too.

[swingbuster]

Your lead elbow is moving back behind the belly button( shoulders turning back) as your front foot is reaching for some ground, shifting some weight with head staying over belly button. A very good overlap move and very hard to teach and do well. THere is much to like about the swing and your apparent strength

You hands maybe do not getting hidden very well tells me you like middle / in and you pull the ball often.

Right or wrong?.

[jbooth]

I find it interesting how most hitters don’t know how to get ready on really good pitching (or on a fastball). For example, at last nights game the other teams pitchers almost threw a no hitter against our team. It was amazing it was like our hitters were in a fantasy world. But, the reality of how much force it takes to hit a really good fastball hopefully came upon them and me. Also, our team is made up of all kinds of players (some from minor leagues, division 1 schools, junior colleges, and so on). It was funny everybody that came back to the dugout was making excuses. For example, one guy came back to the dugout (after his strike out) and said this is not fair because the other teams coach pays there players and that’s why they have such good pitchers. The funny thing is I’ am the only one last night to get a hit. I got one at bat and went 1 for 1. I have to admit I got a reality check pretty fast. The first pitch to me I felt I was late and told myself I have to get ready!!! Second pitch I barely missed it. The next pitch I was ready and hit a single. The morale of this story is it really takes a lot of force to hit a good fastball. So, get ready or go back to the dugout!!!

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/Animation2.50b.gif (http://www.theimagehosting.com)




advise requested

The swing itself in regard to how it moves from front foot touchdown, to ball contact, is fine. Actually, very good.

But, since your topic seemed to be about getting ready and quickness; I'll focus on that:

You could get started much more effeciently. You rock back onto your back leg. Your head moves backward, then forward. This eats up time, and creates the need to apply a lot of force to push your body weight into the start of rotation.

The good MLB hitters let mother nature help them get started. They are in a position with their body weight, so that when the front foot lifts off the ground, they actually start to fall forward. The lifting of the front foot starts to unweight the back foot, simply due to gravity. This reduces the amount of force needed to be applied by the back leg, in order to push the hips into rotation. Which means that all the force you can apply, essentially is being applied to a mass that had its inertia broken, when the front foot lifted.

In your starting method, YOU are having to not only break inertia, but apply enough force to reverse the momentum that you sent in motion toward your back foot. That takes a lot of force, and eats up a lot of time.

It takes practice. Do this drill;

Stand with your feet apart and your head centered. Practice learning how to lift the front foot without shifting your weight and head backwards. Just lift the foot.

When you do it correctly, you will feel like you're going to fall down, and you have to put your foot back down quickly to regain your balance.

Next phase; once you learn to lift the foot without shifting your head and weight backward, then work on learning to turn the back hip and start hip rotation, the instant that the front foot makes contact with the ground, and BEFORE it actually gets fully weighted.

This is how you catch up to 95+.

Then the REALLY hard part, is learning to hold the shoulders motionless until the the hips move them due to their rotation.

[fungo22]

The swing itself in regard to how it moves from front foot touchdown, to ball contact, is fine. Actually, very good. I agree.

Next phase; once you learn to lift the foot without shifting your head and weight backward, then work on learning to turn the back hip and start hip rotation, the instant that the front foot makes contact with the ground, and BEFORE it actually gets fully weighted.

This is how you catch up to 95+. I agree with this part. So does Scotty according to his own commentary.



You could get started much more effeciently. You rock back onto your back leg. Your head moves backward, then forward. This eats up time, and creates the need to apply a lot of force to push your body weight into the start of rotation.

The good MLB hitters let mother nature help them get started. They are in a position with their body weight, so that when the front foot lifts off the ground, they actually start to fall forward. The lifting of the front foot starts to unweight the back foot, simply due to gravity. This reduces the amount of force needed to be applied by the back leg, in order to push the hips into rotation. Which means that all the force you can apply, essentially is being applied to a mass that had its inertia broken, when the front foot lifted.

In your starting method, YOU are having to not only break inertia, but apply enough force to reverse the momentum that you sent in motion toward your back foot. That takes a lot of force, and eats up a lot of time.

It takes practice. Do this drill:

Stand with your feet apart and your head centered. Practice learning how to lift the front foot without shifting your weight and head backwards. Just lift the foot. I don't agree with this part. First, nearly every MLB hitter that strides moves his head forward with the hips/torso body mass. Some of them start out their strides with their center of gravity further back so that they do it more like you describe. But not all of the good ones do. I'm attempting to send a clip of Arod to Ohfor for him to upload. Arod's movement to the rear and then forward is almost identical to Scotty's. Actually Arod characteristically carries further forward than Scotty.

As for taking up time, I don't see how that is relevant since the time at issue is after the decision to swing is made.

[Ohfor]

http://www.teachersbilliards.com/arodside.gif

[swingbuster]

Arods upper body synch with his lower body move and bat action ( more evident from the front view) is 27.99 million dollars better.

Look at Arod's rear elbow get to the top of the load cycle and the bat splitting helmet at foot plant and compare how Arod's shoulders are loaded back at foot plant better. That relationship yields his power and quickness

Mechanisms!!

[dougmac]

Just a hair over 4 frames to contact. Good hack Scotty. Get in the weight room and work there too.

[fungo22]

Arods upper body synch with his lower body move and bat action ( more evident from the front view) is 27.99 million dollars better.

Look at Arod's rear elbow get to the top of the load cycle and the bat splitting helmet at foot plant and compare how Arod's shoulders are loaded back at foot plant better. That relationship yields his power and quickness Nice contribution to the issue under discussion. Way to stay on topic.

[RCSK]

Here's what I fell. When I think to start the rotation with the front hip my back leg comes up late into rotation. But, when I think to rotate the back hip into the front hip joint my hands fell like they are vacuumed in (fells like one move). Meaning practicing like this gives me no time. For example, when I look at bonds swing I see this back hip joint turning just before his front foot lands.

[swingbuster]

Nice contribution to the issue under discussion. Way to stay on topic

When people better understand how the top half load, early connection, bat action, back resistance, and prelauch torque ( yielding stretch) affect the lower body production and how you cannot separate the lesson in the high level swing they will get better.

Until then they will muscle up and strain at everything. The tighter they get the worse they will play.

You cannot learn to turn something with your middle that is not moving in a circle...simple as that. That is why you should teach upper body mechanics first

Watch CHipper take those balls oppo. His bat goes to vertical, the lead elbow comes down the lower body moves to hit as the bat gets back on plane and he whips the ball 375 to the opposite field . Lance Bergmon too.

Watch some TV Fungo

[fungo22]

When people better understand how the top half load, early connection, bat action, back resistance, and prelauch torque ( yielding stretch) affect the lower body production and how you cannot separate the lesson in the high level swing they will get better.

Until then they will muscle up and strain at everything. The tighter they get the worse they will play.

You cannot learn to turn something with your middle that is not moving in a circle...simple as that. That is why you should teach upper body mechanics first

Watch CHipper take those balls oppo. His bat goes to vertical, the lead elbow comes down the lower body moves to hit as the bat gets back on plane and he whips the ball 375 to the opposite field . Lance Bergmon too.
Nice contribution to the issue under discussion. Way to stay on topic.

[RCSK]

When people better understand how the top half load, early connection, bat action, back resistance, and prelauch torque ( yielding stretch).

what is top half load, early connection, bat action, back resistance, and prelauch torque ( yielding stretch).

[swingbuster]

what is top half load, early connection, bat action, back resistance, and prelauch torque ( yielding stretch).

Watch some Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, Piazza, Bonds upper body load WHILE they do what they do with the lower half.

Working the top half against the lower half generates the pop. Pulling and pushing HARDER toward the ball will do nothing but keep you where you are for infinity.

I spent 20 years trying it in golf and found it in one year after I understood it better.

Get you some good instruction . You have potential but you will not heal yourself IMHO

For a few bucks you can buy Epstein, Mankin ( Final Arc), Steve, ...get educated( and not brain washed) and make your own mind up.

[RCSK]

Watch some Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, Piazza, Bonds upper body load WHILE they do what they do with the lower half.

Working the top half against the lower half generates the pop. Pulling and pushing HARDER toward the ball will do nothing but keep you where you are for infinity. :eek:

I spent 20 years trying it in golf and found it in one year after I understood it better. :clapping

Get you some good instruction . You have potential but you will not heal yourself IMHO :hp

[fungo22]

Here's what I fell. When I think to start the rotation with the front hip my back leg comes up late into rotation. But, when I think to rotate the back hip into the front hip joint my hands fell like they are vacuumed in (fells like one move). Meaning practicing like this gives me no time. For example, when I look at bonds swing I see this back hip joint turning just before his front foot lands. I knew what you were talking about. I was just being obstinate.

I don't know why there is a slight delay between foot plant and rotation. It doesn't seem to hurt your quickness.

I've been working with a hitter with the same problem, but somewhat worse than yours. His front foot plants and then he rotates - pretty much as two movements. Here are my thoughts, for what they are worth.

I think it is either a timing problem or a control/stability problem with him. Either he completes strides/loads too early or he does not have his movement forward under control. He isn't "carrying" it forward; it is just "falling" forward. I had him working on the same thing I suggested that Little Ohfor (Teacherman's son, Brandon) experiment with:

(1) Turn the back foot in with toes more toward the plate. Yours is pretty square.

(2) Use the adductors of your rear thigh to move your back knee under your torso/body mass as it carries foward. This will give you some control over the timing of your front foot touchdown. You seem to have very little control over your foward movement.

Finally, (2) above seems to better stretch the muscles in and about the rear hip and facilitate a move powerful turn off the rear hip. Which is a good thing.

This might not be useful to you. I'm just giving you my observations for you to consider and perhaps experiment with.

[RCSK]

For a few bucks you can buy Epstein, Mankin ( Final Arc), Steve, ...get educated( and not brain washed) and make your own mind up. :laugh

I would never spend any money on epstein or mankin. Steves is one of the most educated hitting instuctors in this planet. Epstein and mankin are all about the money and need to get on steve's level!!! I would quit baseball before I ever went to epstein!!!

[swingbuster]

Epstein and mankin are all about the money and need to get on steve's level!!! I would quit baseball before I ever went to epstein!!!

Welcome to the posse

[jbooth]

First, nearly every MLB hitter that strides moves his head forward with the hips/torso body mass. Some of them start out their strides with their center of gravity further back so that they do it more like you describe. But not all of the good ones do. I'm attempting to send a clip of Arod to Ohfor for him to upload. Arod's movement to the rear and then forward is almost identical to Scotty's. Actually Arod characteristically carries further forward than Scotty.

As for taking up time, I don't see how that is relevant since the time at issue is after the decision to swing is made.

I didn't say anything about the head not moving forward during the stride in MLB swings. Some do, some don't Tejada moves his head forward a huge amount as he moves to front foot touch, I never even talked about that, so I don't know where you're coming from. It has nothing to do with what I was talking about. I think you missed my point.

Yes, Arod rocks back a bit, but his swing doesn't operate like RCSK's.

A-rod lifts his leg high, and he moves back as he does that, but his head is still closer to the center and he falls forward and then pushes to turn the hips as the front foot lands. RCSK rocks his weight farther back and is pushing his weight to get to foot plant. A-rod is not. A-rod rocked back, let his leg fall forward and his head moves with that, he isn't pushing early with the back foot, to get to front foot plant. I believe RCSK is.

[jbooth]

For example, when I look at bonds swing I see this back hip joint turning just before his front foot lands.

That's correct. And, you do that too, but it APPEARS TO ME, (I could be wrong) that you are turning a lot of weight. Look at Bonds again, because I agree with you that he turns the hip as you say, but also look at how he just lifts the front leg, and as it touches down, he turns the hip. He didn't rock back first, or put weight on the back foot that had to be moved off of it. The weight came off as he lifts the front foot. It's OK to have your head follow the foot during the stride, but the head must stop going forward once the front foot touches down. You're fine there.

I'm not saying your swing is bad, I'm suggesting a way that you can accomplish what you do, with less effort. And, it may make the swing quicker.

[jbooth]

http://www.teachersbilliards.com/arodside.gif

When his front knee reaches its full height, his head is already starting to move back to the center, then it moves forward as his front leg falls toward the ground, he pushes to turn the hips as the front foot touches down. I don't believe he is pushing his weight to the front.

Do you?

His upper body mass is falling off of the back foot, it isn't being pushed. This is not the same as RCSK's move. RCSK doesn't lift his foot high enough to make that happen.

If you use a small lift, and small stride, then you need to try not to rock back. If you lift your leg high like a-rod and Tejada and Soriano, then the falling front leg is going to get you off the back foot, and lifting the leg that high is going to make you move back a bit in the begining, but then the long fall gets you off before front foot touchdown.

If you have a small stride like Bonds, and none like Pujols, then there is no need to rock back, the lift or drop doesn't force you backwards, so you can start to turn sooner, and you can wait longer before you do it.

[jbooth]

For a few bucks you can buy Epstein, Mankin ( Final Arc), Steve, ...get educated( and not brain washed) and make your own mind up. :laugh

I would never spend any money on epstein or mankin. Steve is one of the most educated hitting instuctors in this planet. Epstein and mankin are all about the money and need to get on steve's level!!! I would quit baseball before I ever went to epstein!!!

Well, if you believe Steve is the best and has all the answers, why did you ask "advice requested", from the masses who post on this forum? Why didn't you just send your clip to him? Was it because you were looking for free advice? There is an old saying, "You get what you pay for." And another, "Free advice, is worth what you paid for it."

I too, believe Steve has a better understanding than Epstein, and way better than Mankin, but you posted your swing and asked advice without conditions.
Take it or leave it, and take it for what you think it's worth.

[4for4]

Well, if you believe Steve is the best and has all the answers, why did you ask "advice requested", from the masses who post on this forum? Why didn't you just send your clip to him? Was it because you were looking for free advice? There is an old saying, "You get what you pay for." And another, "Free advice, is worth what you paid for it."

I too, believe Steve has a better understanding than Epstein, and way better than Mankin, but you posted your swing and asked advice without conditions.
Take it or leave it, and take it for what you think it's worth.

Unfair Jim. In the past Scotty posted clips of his swing from sessions he worked with Steve. And as far as I know, he did so with Steve's blessing. I think he wants additional eyes and wants to hear what others have to say for his benefit. My guess is that would include you and he may well hold you in higher regard than epstein and mankin. I know I do.

[Mark H]

Agreed about your instructor opinions.

4 frames huh? Sounds like you are on your way. Outstanding!

Judging by your mastery of the quote function, Steve coached you on that as well. ;)

[Mark H]

Unfair Jim. In the past Scotty posted clips of his swing from sessions he worked with Steve. And as far as I know, he did so with Steve's blessing. I think he wants additional eyes and wants to hear what others have to say for his benefit. My guess is that would include you and he may well hold you in higher regard than epstein and mankin. I know I do.

That's true Jim, you have moved far beyond Epstein and Mankin. Crankier than them too. :)

[jbooth]

Unfair Jim. In the past Scotty posted clips of his swing from sessions he worked with Steve. And as far as I know, he did so with Steve's blessing. I think he wants additional eyes and wants to hear what others have to say for his benefit. My guess is that would include you and he may well hold you in higher regard than epstein and mankin. I know I do.

I wasn't trying to be mean. He jumped all over somebody who gave an opinion he didn't agree with.

[Mark H]

He's young and enthusiastic and gave them good information. You've been known to be a little less than patient yourself from time to time and you aren't a teenager anymore.

[jbooth]

That's true Jim, you have moved far beyond Epstein and Mankin. Crankier than them too. :)

Well, I really didn't mean to be cranky.

Do you have any opinion regarding what I told RCSK?

[Mark H]

I generally think you give good advice. Which part are you asking about?

[jbooth]

I generally think you give good advice. Which part are you asking about?

How to more effectively get off the back foot.

[RCSK]

He's young and enthusiastic and gave them good information.

I did not mean to get mad I just missed read swingbuilders message. I thought swingbuilder was suggesting epstein and mankin are more educated than steve at hitting. When all swing builder was saying was to look at epsteins, mankins, and steve's stuff and make your own opinion. As you can see my opinion is already made up. sorry swingbuilder for misreading you statement. Just a rookie's mistake by me!!:crazy

[fungo22]

I didn't say anything about the head not moving forward during the stride in MLB swings. Some do, some don't Tejada moves his head forward a huge amount as he moves to front foot touch, I never even talked about that, so I don't know where you're coming from. It has nothing to do with what I was talking about. I think you missed my point. OK, apparently I missed your point. I'll take your word for it, but this is what I read:

Your head moves backward, then forward. This eats up time ... First, I'm not sure why you're watching the clock at this point in the swing, but when you say that the movements of the head back and forward are time eaters, I concluded that you were concerned about the forward movment as well as the rearward movement. But you say you're not concerned about it, so next point:

Yes, Arod rocks back a bit, but his swing doesn't operate like RCSK's.

A-rod lifts his leg high, and he moves back as he does that, but his head is still closer to the center and he falls forward and then pushes to turn the hips as the front foot lands. RCSK rocks his weight farther back and is pushing his weight to get to foot plant. A-rod is not. A-rod rocked back, let his leg fall forward and his head moves with that, he isn't pushing early with the back foot, to get to front foot plant. I believe RCSK is. Yeah, yeah, Arod lifts his foot higher, but they seem to me to be doing the same thing: Rocking back and falling forward. And if Scotty is "pushing forward" after he rocks back, then so is Arod. I'm not convinced either of them is pushing off the back foot. And I don't see what it has to do with the quickness of his swing.

Well, if you believe Steve is the best and has all the answers, why did you ask "advice requested", from the masses who post on this forum? Why didn't you just send your clip to him? As 444 has already pointed out, this was unjustified.

Was it because you were looking for free advice? There is an old saying, "You get what you pay for." And another, "Free advice, is worth what you paid for it." Sagely counsel. Here's some free advice: You get what you pay for. So does this mean that when someone pays $150 for Nymans e-book, they're getting three times the value as those who only paid $50? Is Mankin's stuff worth more than the advice people get on this forum simply because they pay Mankin for it? And does it mean that when they get your free advice on this forum, they are getting information that is "worth what they paid for it"?

I too, believe Steve has a better understanding than Epstein, and way better than Mankin, but you posted your swing and asked advice without conditions.

Take it or leave it, and take it for what you think it's worth. You don't do this. You've posted clips of your swing and drills and asked for opinions. And then when you don't agree with what is said, you say so. What's the difference between that and what Scotty did?

Here's another old saying: "If you insist on being cranky, be prepared to get cranked."

[RCSK]

I think I figured something out. In arod swing and bonds swing the back knee cap is more closer to there middle. I think something that might help me out is having my front foot behind my back leg (more open of a stance). I feel like I can rotate faster with a more open stance.

[swingbuster]

If you had seen Epstein and Mankin and if you had really studied them the required several times through you have picked up some points.

I don't think you know some of these things.

You picking out body parts now. You need to learn how to use the top half of your body against the bottom and visa versa.

This is something they all are saying including Steve. They have different focal points and ways to express it.

Epstein...the top half going / staying back as the bottom rotates open and stretches the torso

Mankin....best decription os how to get the top half to go back and stay there

Steve...move the middle but expand the middle to include the shoulders down through the pelvis

Scotty..your talking to the 6 people that have spend more time studying this stuff and what the experst have said than most of the people in the US combined.

As Jims said" you asked for it" It is free. But you do not know what you think you know now....not even close

[Ohfor]

Please...The time Scotty has spent with Steve trumps all Mankins years teaching, Epsteins years teaching and he is way over your head.

And until you know the details of PCR, you'll continue to be a babbling idiot.

[swingbuster]

Why can't he wait?

Because it is not about waiting. It is directional hitting on outside pitch locations and the upper body loading mechanics that feel good coming square to a ball that is hit deeper . This kid can't do it right now with his hands outside the line and no barrel action .. The world doesn't need anymore full time pull hitters .....not with todays pitchers.

When you figure that out you will understand Mankin's loading......

[Ohfor]

Learn more. Then you can compare without looking like a fool.

[fungo22]

Why can't he wait? How do you know he can't wait? How do you know he isn't a terror to opposite field?

Because it is not about waiting. It is directional hitting on outside pitch locations and the upper body loading mechanics that feel good coming square to a ball that is hit deeper . This kid can't do it right now with his hands outside the line and no barrel action Speculation, conjecture and unsupported theorizing. First, you don't know what Scotty can do. You've seen one clip. One. On a pitch that appears to be middle-in. And you've reached all of these conclusions from one clip.

My elder son has a classic PCR loading pattern with no hint of a BHUT hand job. He hits the ball hard to opposite field. Ohfor's son does the same. Ohfor has posted clips of MLB hitters hitting the ball to opposite field without your loading technique. You're becoming more and more like Tom. Your assertions about reality are based on your speculative theorizing and not on the empirical facts.

[swingbuster]

How do you know he can't wait?

Lucky guess and playing the really great odds and reading the hand set and load

Learn more. Then you can compare without looking like a fool.

Get the rear leg off a collapsed ankle and you will hit it far. Instead of fixing it you find a Thome Clip and say it is fine.

[Ohfor]

I ignored you yesterday.

Show me a Thome or Jason Bey clip where they don't do it.

Clip time again for you.

Oh how you hate that.

That damn video will prove your hallucinations wrong again.......and again and again.

[swingbuster]

maybe they are aiming for the upper deck at 485

[fungo22]

Lucky guess and playing the really great odds and reading the hand set and load Like I said: Speculative theorizing. How he loads is different from your theory, therefore he can't hit to opposite field. That's not knowledge. That is circular reasoning. You really are becoming like Tom.

[Ohfor]

Fungo

I feel sorry for your poor kids. They must have a helluva time explaining why they got home late.

They are not equipped to overcome your knowledge of logic.:laugh

[swingbuster]

Fungo

do you think the pitching coaches calling pitches can read a tendency in a young kid by his set up?

[fungo22]

Fungo

do you think the pitching coaches calling pitches can read a tendency in a young kid by his set up? Irrelevant to what we're discussing. The set up you advocate is no better for either inside or outside than the simple set up advocated by the PCR school. So my answer doesn't matter.

But most "pitching coaches" for young kids know next to nothing about how to pitch, let alone read the set up of young hitters.

[swingbuster]

But most "pitching coaches" for young kids know next to nothing about how to pitch, let alone read the set up of young hitters.

Oops we are back to beginners again

[fungo22]

Oops we are back to beginners again_____________________________________________ _____

do you think the pitching coaches calling pitches can read a tendency in a young kid by his set up?

[RCSK]

Why can't he wait?

The ball in this clip actually was a base hit to right field (but, I don't care). If I would of waited any longer I would of got blown away like the rest of my team.

[Ohfor]

RCSK

He's referring to my son and a statement I made as his quickness improved.

It's an attempt to discredit the very thing that is working for him.

Of course, we don't have to discredit buster.

He did it himself when he finally posted clips. I assume you saw that thread. Unbelievable.

And..................he even admitted it.

[fungo22]

RCSK

He's referring to my son and a statement I made as his quickness improved. My bad. I thought he was referring to Scotty. He commented earlier that he thought Scotty was a pull hitter who liked inside pitches.

[swingbuster]

No I had a nap and decided that you guys are right. IN fact I felt so good I went to setpro and read a little ballistic impulse sh**.

When I got through, I thought of all the people I know and kids I have coached and wondered how many would even give crap about what the hell he thinks he is saying. How many coaches I could get to stand and listen to inpulse descriptions and his assault on kinetic chaining.

He went on to say that hitting oppo was just waiting late and then I thought how this guys is an electrical engineer that admitted he did not play any sports . Then I said ..PCR is his brain child. HUMMMM!!!

I think I will dig out the YOU CAN TEACH HITTING book by Baker and start over.

[Ohfor]

Probably true....................in Alabama.

When the DVM's can't write complete sentences, stay on point, and follow logic I wonder about the rest.

[swingbuster]

Please try to at least follow people smarter than you when it comes to things being applicable and relative to your audience. Any teacher should know that.

[ssarge]

an electrical engineer that admitted he did not play any sports

I don't think this is correct. I believe Nyman was a long jumper / triple jumper / high jumper. I have no idea of his ability level or success, but believe he did compete.

Regards,

Scott

[swingbuster]

I believe Nyman was a long jumper / triple jumper / high jumper. I have no idea of his ability level or success, but believe he did compete.

Well it is never too late to enjoy other sports

[fungo22]

I don't think this is correct. I believe Nyman was a long jumper / triple jumper / high jumper. I have no idea of his ability level or success, but believe he did compete.
Ernest Goes to Camp

I knew you wouldn't get it.

[fungo22]

When I got through, I thought of all the people I know and kids I have coached and wondered how many would even give crap about what the hell he thinks he is saying. How many coaches I could get to stand and listen to inpulse descriptions and his assault on kinetic chaining.

He went on to say that hitting oppo was just waiting late and then I thought how this guys is an electrical engineer that admitted he did not play any sports . Then I said ..PCR is his brain child. HUMMMM!!!
Not a bad strategem. You're not making much headway against us, so go after Nyman. He's an easy target.

[swingbuster]

You seem to believe everything Nyman believes.

Where do you differ?

[Steve Englishbey]

Pretty good swing Mr.Scotty.I agree with your thoughts [and "feelings"] about quicker rotation and rotation off the back hip into footplant.

You need to "ride the back leg" longer ,thus helping you to "defy gravity" longer,ie less "reaching with leg" and more "carry" of the body mass [torso].

I also agree with Doug about the need to work like a dedicated "SomBitch" in terms of consistent and "smart' exercising.Do it and stay at it .

I'm in Ca.[Modesto] now but I'll be back this Friday.And we will get at some of this stuff[including exercise stuff of course] when I get back.

steve

Note to the group here: Do not be fooled by the elegance of Scotty's redoubtable syntax and highly stylized prose.

He is definitely smarter than he looks .....or sounds.

He is THE smartest guy I have ever worked with.

And in terms of having a well developed "kinesthetic sense" he is one of the smartest that I have ever been around.

[fungo22]

You need to "ride the back leg" longer ,thus helping you to "defy gravity" longer,ie less "reaching with leg" and more "carry" of the body mass [torso]. I cannot help but observe that these are cues. Is there anything he can/should do physiologically to make them happen?

Note to the group here: Do not be fooled by the elegance of Scotty's redoubtable syntax and highly stylized prose. Don't worry. We weren't fooled by yours.

[Steve Englishbey]

Is there anything he should do physiologically ?

Yes .Show up this weekend at the Sports Complex in sugarland.

steve

[jbooth]

You need to "ride the back leg" longer ,thus helping you to "defy gravity" longer,ie less "reaching with leg" and more "carry" of the body mass [torso].


Could you explain/describe these cues a little better? Just going by the wording I can envision several different movements. Could you give a little more detail please, as to what you are describing when you say "ride the back leg", etc?

I think I know what you mean, and I think we're on the same page, but I'd like to better understand what you're saying here.

Thanks,

Jim

[swingbuster]

He is THE smartest guy I have ever worked with.

Wait a minute Steve...

I thought you had worked with Ohfer...

:laugh

[4for4]

Could you explain/describe these cues a little better? Just going by the wording I can envision several different movements. Could you give a little more detail please, as to what you are describing when you say "ride the back leg", etc?

I think I know what you mean, and I think we're on the same page, but I'd like to better understand what you're saying here.

Thanks,

Jim

Here's what I'm thinking:

(1) Turn the back foot in with toes more toward the plate....

(2) Use the adductors of your rear thigh to move your back knee under your torso/body mass as it carries foward. This will give you some control over the timing of your front foot touchdown...

Finally, (2) above seems to better stretch the muscles in and about the rear hip and facilitate a move powerful turn off the rear hip. Which is a good thing.

Fungo22, do you have any thoughts on what I am advocating?

http://66.206.15.241/hmimgs/GonzoHPLoadUnLoadz.gif

[swingbuster]

Funny ....when Ted Williams said " coil into you rear hip AS you stride to hit" nobody got it apparently.

If you coil into your rear hip and load it as you stride you are carrying the coil forward.

The stride momentum can help you uncoil the hips harder as you rotate into foot plant and block.

The lead leg extension just prior to the wrist unhinging finishes the hip turn just prior to impact.

It is all out there and it has been out there a long , long time.

Hank Aaron put on a very long clinic with it.

[4for4]

Funny ....when Ted Williams said " coil into you rear hip AS you stride to hit" nobody got it apparently.

If you coil into your rear hip and load it as you stride you are carrying the coil forward.

The stride momentum can help you uncoil the hips harder as you rotate into foot plant and block.

The lead leg extension just prior to the wrist unhinging finishes the hip turn just prior to impact.

It is all out there and it has been out there a long , long time.

Hank Aaron put on a very long clinic with it.

Who is Ted Williams and do you have a clip of him? Often times when you have a v-shape forearm and move it semi-cirular in a perpendicular fashion you can get there. Probably in 19 swings and sometimes only 18.

[jbooth]

Who is Ted Williams and do you have a clip of him?

I hope you're not serious.

Ted Williams; Hall of Famer, one of the 10 best hitters of all-time.

lifetime batting average .344, 521 HR's, 525 doubles .634 lifetime slg%

struck out only 7 percent of his ab's, hit a HR every 14.8 AB's

Wrote a book called, "The Science of Hitting."

The "shift" now used for Bonds, was invented for Ted. He walked as often as Bonds and Ruth. OBP higher than Bonds and Ruth.

If you were joking, then you knew all this. If not, now you do.

[Ohioteamz]

I hope you're not serious.

Ted Williams; Hall of Famer, one of the 10 best hitters of all-time.



Jim he was having a little fun with Donny.

[swingbuster]

Good facts Jim,

You would think they would want to read and learn from a HOF MLB player

instead of arrogant hand me down stuff from CT. The got the attitude down perfect but they aren't hitting that well.

You might even look at his loading pattern and weight shift.....nawwww

They are rewriting the Science of Hitting in Greek.

[4for4]

Good facts Jim,

You would think they would want to read and learn from a HOF MLB player

instead of arrogant hand me down stuff from CT. The got the attitude down perfect but they aren't hitting that well.

You might even look at his loading pattern and weight shift.....nawwww

They are rewriting the Science of Hitting in Greek.

Speaking of Greek, did you know that the Athenians, considered the master bakers of classical times, created breads flavored with honey, olives, cumin, garlic, coriander, fennel, capers or sage.

[fungo22]

Here's what I'm thinking:

(1) Turn the back foot in with toes more toward the plate....

(2) Use the adductors of your rear thigh to move your back knee under your torso/body mass as it carries foward. This will give you some control over the timing of your front foot touchdown...

Finally, (2) above seems to better stretch the muscles in and about the rear hip and facilitate a move powerful turn off the rear hip. Which is a good thing.

Fungo22, do you have any thoughts on what I am advocating? Nothing original. What you're advocating, if I understand it correctly (good picture), sounds pretty good to me. These "physiological" actions might help Scotty or some other hitter "carry the torso/body mass forward with more control so that he "rides the back leg" and "defies gravity" longer. Another option is that Scotty and about 350 other hitters could just show up this weekend at the sports complex in Sugarland for some free hitting instruction.

Be there or be square.

[fungo22]

Good facts Jim,

You would think they would want to read and learn from a HOF MLB player

instead of arrogant hand me down stuff from CT. The got the attitude down perfect but they aren't hitting that well.

You might even look at his loading pattern and weight shift.....nawwww

They are rewriting the Science of Hitting in Greek. Two words: Babbling baffoonery. Who needs Greek when you can make no sense in English?

As if none of us have read and learned from Williams' book.

[swingbuster]

As if none of us have read and learned from Williams' book


Take another trip through. Look at the over heads. The lack of synchronization between upper and lower body and the lack of proper mechanisms at the cusp to keep the hands back and allow the hips to lead and are at the root of all swings that are lacking.

[fungo22]

Take another trip through. Look at the over heads. The lack of synchronization between upper and lower body and the lack of proper mechanisms at the cusp to keep the hands back and allow the hips to lead and are at the root of all swings that are lacking. I've seen it. You don't understand cause and effect. You don't understand muscle movement. All you can see is body part movement. So that's what you fixate on. You and Tom.

[Ohfor]

Learn the Hanson Rule.

[Ohfor]

NO evidence you've ever worked with one kid.

No clips.

Except for the helpless sap that couldn't do what you want.

[Ohfor]

Busters feelings are hurt.

We broke up with him and moved on to HG and DMac.

Honesty doesn't follow him much.

[Steve Englishbey]

......."the other took some courses dealing with kinetics."

Who the hell are are you talking about here Swingbuster ?


steve

[RCSK]

So I'm done with him until he sobers up.

Swingbuster what have you been up to?

[RCSK]

what have I been up to?

Just got done playing a baseball game. Lately, I have been thinking about how I can move my center of mass better. I think I firgured out part of what I need to do. I need to pick up my foot hip by my left torso muscle. So, I can use my back leg to get under my center of mass. The reason I need to do this is simple that's how I think the mlb players do it. The most important thing I need to do is get my back hip more flexible (steve exercises will help that).

[fungo22]

Scott diggity dog: You got him started again, Babe. He's all yours.

[Mark H]

SB,

Old saying. When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

[dougmac]

I'm just shaking my head here. I have taught both my daughters to throw, one of whom plays 9-10 Pony baseball in a competitive league with 100 boys.

Let's see... YES, I taught them to simultaneously get their center of mass moving forward (rocking forward slightly off the back foot) while rotating their torso from shoulder facing the target to belly button facing the target... pretty simple, but NOT natural.

Sound familiar? Sound a little like good swing mechanics?

As to picking up the front foot.... a pitcher picks up their front foot, falls forward on their back foot ("rides their back leg forward") moreso than pushing off of it, as part of the basic motion.

I just don't get where your statements above come from. Sure, you can both swing and throw without picking up the front foot and falling slightly forward... but the normal forward momentum/torso rotation is at the heart of both throwing and swinging, and neither is *natural*.


I wish that when you were describing how to throw that you would use "IMO". Otherwise new readers will think that what you wrote is fact when it was just your opinion of how a player should use their body to throw.

[Ohfor]

Hey Mr. Scout.

Tell us how the big leaguers teach throwing.

[DunninLA]

No problem Dougmac. IMHO [insert the rest of the post] the H part is important too...

[RCSK]

here's new swing!! comments welcome

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/8490/gamer3ea.gif

[fungo22]

Quick swing. Same as the last: Just a hair over 4 frames. Also like the last, there is a delay between heel touch down and the beginning of rotation. But it doesn't seem to affect your quickness. I think it is because you load and unload your middle exceptionally well. Must be your high-level arm action.

Something I didn't catch in the swing a couple weeks ago: You set your box and connect the knob to the momentum plane your shoulder rotation as rotation starts. Where'd you get that?

I can't tell from the side view: Are you setting your box (lifting your front arm) by straightening your torso or independent of your torso tilt? Or both?

[RCSK]

I can't tell from the side view: Are you setting your box (lifting your front arm) by straightening your torso or independent of your torso tilt? Or both?

I' am setting the box by lifting the front arm before I start. I' am a whole lot more consist with the second swing then the first swing. When I tilt I try to keep my front arm up so I can stay with the swing plane.To me the second swing felt better. I fell like I can't miss balls (foul them off with the second swing). Excuse me for my writting!!!

[fungo22]

I' am setting the box by lifting the front arm before I start. Yes, but you don't leave it there. Look again. You raise it more as you start.

I' am a whole lot more consist with the second swing then the first swing. Consistent with what?

[RCSK]

Consistent with what?

I' am more consist in hitting the sweet spot. For example, today when I hit with steve. The first swing I was missing balls (went like 2 for 10) in line drives. The second swing I was hitting a lot of line drives. (like 9 for 10). So, I took the second swing into tonights game and it payed off.

[fungo22]

Consistent with what?

I' am more consist in hitting the sweet spot. For example, today when I hit with steve. The first swing I was missing balls (went like 2 for 10) in line drives. The second swing I was hitting a lot of line drives. (like 9 for 10). So, I took the second swing into tonights game and it payed off. So you are doing something different in the second swing. Perhaps that's why I didn't catch it in the first. What do you see/feel you are doing differently?

[GFK]

RCSK, if you have any clips with good clarity and larger size from the side and front of the swing form you used in post 115, I would appreciate them. I would like to use them as models with my kids. Relative to MLB players, you are a lot closer in age to my sons. They will identify with you better than some "old" guy playing the majors.

[Mark H]

Consistent with what?

I' am more consist in hitting the sweet spot. For example, today when I hit with steve. The first swing I was missing balls (went like 2 for 10) in line drives. The second swing I was hitting a lot of line drives. (like 9 for 10). So, I took the second swing into tonights game and it payed off.

Tell Steve to call me. I'll pick him up and we'll come watch a game.

[joof]

RCSK: In the clip of your "new swing" are you pushing off the back foot during the stride or moving ala Dixon in "moving the middle forward"?

Thanks, joof

[RCSK]

http://img323.imageshack.us/img323/9519/bad0xd.gif

here's the closest I can get. I have no front view of the swing.

[RCSK]

So you are doing something different in the second swing. Perhaps that's why I didn't catch it in the first. What do you see/feel you are doing differently?

I set the box up better. My front arm is lifted higher which helps me stay connected with the swing plane.

[GFK]

http://img323.imageshack.us/img323/9519/bad0xd.gif

here's the closest I can get. I have no front view of the swing.

Thanks!

I really like the load. My youngest is working on this same loading pattern. Steve, if you don't mind, I would like to hear your comments on this swing given this is one of your students.

[Steve Englishbey]

He needs to "tighten " the linkage between the shoulders /arms and the pelvic region.


steve

[joof]

Steve:

After some coaching from daves on how to maximize my vertical load it really became evident(feel) that the coupling between my shoulders /arms and pelvic/torso regions(vertical loaded regions) felt much stronger and was easier to maintain into and through rotation. The ability to establish this tight coupling was solely a result of improving my degree of vertical loading. Does this make any sense ? Am I overstating the issue when I say that this stronger coupling has a significant impact on maintaining connection and the geometrical integrity of the box??


joof

[Steve Englishbey]

Jim it makes a helluvalot of sense. It is one of the keys .It is vital to the process.

steve

[GFK]

He needs to "tighten " the linkage between the shoulders /arms and the pelvic region.


steve

This guy has it down to the point that requires 60 fps to pick up on any slip between the shoulders-arms and pelvic region. Good excuse to buy a high end video camera.

Do you think faster pitching would force him to "tighten" the linkage.

[Steve Englishbey]

Sometimes being in a "sink or swim " situation will help.It forces the issue of efficiency to be addressed in ways that slower pitching cannot.

The guy he was facing here throws in the low 90's.


And dont get me wrong here. I think Scotty swings the bat pretty well.

But what I'm usually going to try to think about is how someone might get a little better.

steve

[fungo22]

Steve:

After some coaching from daves on how to maximize my vertical load Who's Dave? And where did you acquire this coaching?

[joof]

Steve: Thanks for your response. Finally understanding the importance of this coupling, hips/torso to arms/shoulders, is really beneficial. It helps conceptually in understanding the role of another functional components associated with the “total body readiness” state. Additionally it will really assist me in providing better instruction. From now on I am going to think of PCR as:


(PCR)^VL

This will just remind me of the importance of the “vertical load” to the PCR approach.



Fungo22:

The coaching occurred during one of our almost daily phone conversations on the topic of swinging a bat(daves is Dave S. from Boca Raton, FL). We “turn over a bunch of rocks” in our exchanges and occasionally find a “keeper”.


Thanks, joof

[joof]

Steve: Thanks for your response. Finally understanding the importance of this coupling, hips/torso to arms/shoulders, is really beneficial. It helps conceptually in understanding the role of another functional components associated with the “total body readiness” state. Additionally it will really assist me in providing better instruction. From now on I am going to think of PCR as:


(PCR)^VL

This will just remind me of the importance of the “vertical load” to the PCR approach.



Fungo22:

The coaching occurred during one of our almost daily phone conversations on the topic of swinging a bat(daves is Dave S. from Boca Raton, FL). We “turn over a bunch of rocks” in our exchanges and occasionally find a “keeper”.


Thanks, joof

[swingbuster]

joof,

please define vertical load improving my degree of vertical loading


After some coaching from daves on how to maximize my vertical load

[joof]

Swingbuster:

I will give a short version in terms of a functional description. It involves positioning the body such that muscles in the hips and torso regions are recruited to a state of readiness and eventual use in initiating and driving rotation of the body in the swing.

Others have provided much more detailed and most likely more informative descriptions of vertical loading. Other views will be helpful.

joof

[swingbuster]

I was curious as we use vertical loading as Dr. Yeager uses barrel loading.

Vertical barrel loading is keeping the barrel splitting the helmet ( which locks the scaps back; which holds the shoulders back) as the hips rotate into toe touch.

For me and mine it tends to do some of what you describe as

It involves positioning the body such that muscles in the hips and torso regions are recruited to a state of readiness and eventual use in initiating and driving rotation of the body in the swing

Thanks

[RCSK]

new swing.

http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/6471/sco9rm.gif

[swingbuster]

Might be location but I never see a definitive unhinge/ snap of the bat. Looks like he just hangs on to the finish

[fungo22]

Fungo22:

The coaching occurred during one of our almost daily phone conversations on the topic of swinging a bat(daves is Dave S. from Boca Raton, FL). We “turn over a bunch of rocks” in our exchanges and occasionally find a “keeper”.
My regards to Dave.

Vertical barrel loading is keeping the barrel splitting the helmet Sounds like the same thing to me.

[fungo22]

new swing. A little better carry foward and transition into rotation. How far did it fly?

Did you get the short clips I sent? You never call.