Pitching change...

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

I mean longterm. Nowadays, pitchers rarely go over 100 pitches. In the old days, virtually every start would be a complete game. What gives? With athletes seemingly getting stronger, are pitchers the only ones somehow getting weaker?? There's no way that is possible. I hope one of you experts has the answer.

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

Nothing ??

[onbaseball]

There are a few reasons for this, and I'm answering your question in regard to Major League pitching, not any other level.

For reasons unknown, someone, somewhere, started the theory that a pitcher shouldn't throw more than 100 pitches. I've never seen any medical explanation for this but if anyone at this forum can point me to something, I'm all ears.

Pro coaches start this 100-pitch limit in the minors, and in fact they have other strange limits depending on the organization. For example, I think the Mets automatically remove a pitcher from a minor league game if he reaches 35 pitches in one inning.

As a result of these limits, pitchers never really stretch out, and do not condition their arms beyond the 100 pitches.

While I understand the theory behind a limit --- you want to avoid overuse injuries --- I'm not sure where they came up with 100. From what I understand, guys like Tom Seaver and Nolan Ryan had limits of closer to 150-160 pitches.

Part of the problem might be the decline of pitching mechanics. While we know more about mechanics today, it appears that coaches at the pro level don't do a whole lot with the knowledge. Going back to Seaver and Ryan, if you take a look at video footage of those guys and others from the 1960s and 1970s, you see that most pitchers used their legs a lot more to drive the ball; a "standup" thrower like Steve Carlton was more the exception than the rule. Although there are definitely more pitchers using good mechanics at the college level, that hasn't translated to the pro levels. Possibly because pro teams scout and sign guys who throw 90 MPH and above, and most of those guys get signed before getting to college, they're not getting the same kind of concentration on mechanics at the pro levels. That may not sound like it makes sense, but I think in a lot of organizations, there is more of a demand to succeed, and most pitchers don't have the luxury of reformatting their mechanics when they're fighting to keep their job and move up to the next level.

Another problem, I think, is the slider. It seems that every pitcher throws it, every manager loves it, and as a result it is thrown way too often, and is taking a toll on the arms. Pitchers should throw more fastballs, and work on the command of their fastballs; if they did, they'd likely build more arm strength. However, it's generally easier to learn how to throw a decent slider than it is to put in the time to command a consistent, moving fastball.

That's my theory, anyway.

[ncsouthpaw]

SI ran an article some (4/5?) years ago or so discussing longevity of mlb pitchers and showing a correlation between longevity and limiting the number of innings a pitcher throws before a certain age (23/24 maybe, not sure about the age) and it seems they interviewed some professional baseball people. That was my first real recollection of limits in the pro game.

Here is an interesting article discussing this issue http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/story/5741919p-5137774c.html

[onbaseball]

That's a great article, thanks for posting the link.

You really do have to wonder, though, if these pitching limits make sense. Especially considering that arm surgeries --- especially Tommy John sugery --- taking place so often at the pro level it is practically routine.

I can't say for sure what's going on in the minors these days, because I'm not there, but there has to be a breakdown in instruction, for whatever reason (most likely a financial issue; teams make significant investments and want to see results). And I have a hard time buying into the under-24 theory, since the few guys who are still throwing in their 40s --- namely Roger Clemens and Randy Johnson --- were throwing 150-200 pitches a game in their early 20s. Clemens, especially, threw a lot while at Texas. Nolan Ryan threw plenty before he turned 20, and Tom Seaver completed 18-20 games a year and both pitched into their 40s.

At some point you'd think that someone in the pros would take an educated look at this, possibly with the help of some doctors, physiologists, kiniesiologists, etc. It's simply ridiculous that every other aspect of the game has improved from shared knowledge and advances in training, medicine, and technology, while pitchers have gone backwards.

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

Thanks alot guys. The reason I've been wondering is because of the Blue Jays. Most other teams probably have this problem too, but our pitchers are going only 4 or 5 innings. I was wondering why they cant just throw the whole game like htey used to. However, Halladay threw a great game (complete game) ont tuesday, and Ted Lilly went 6 strong this afternoon, so things might be looking up. Thanks alot.

[ncsouthpaw]

Joe, actually Ryan was an example of a guy who did not throw over 200 innings until he was at least 24 or so. He struggled with control and had that blister problem.