Some New Clips for the PCR Crowd

[GFK]

The following clips are of my sons CJK, GLK, and CFK who are 8.7, 10.4, and 11.4 years old respectively. We started our PCR journey approximately a year ago with the help of Fungo22 and Steve Englishbey. Since then, we have received a lot of priceless advice and direction from Ohfor, Mark H, SSarge, FlippJ, DamageG (if I am correct in who I think you are), Dmac, Paul Nyman, and countless others. (Mark H, your advice to compare everything said to video of the best is my litmus test for everything!)

With respect to the youngest, CJK, he has a very developed work ethic and is a perfectionist. The swing you see in the clips is how he hits off a live ball (machine or game). I am thinking of adding his stride back in but need to get some face time with Fungo22 (and Steve E if he comes to town) to make sure I do it correctly. In both clips, he is using a 19 oz bat.
http://www.etex.net/~gfklein/Graphics/06151CJKFTSide.gif http://www.etex.net/~gfklein/Graphics/06151CJKFTFront.gif

With respect to the middle son, GLK, he has fought bat drag and top-arm dominance issues off and on again. His shoulders stop rotation at near to contact and his top arm takes over. It looks as if his hip rotation is not pivoting on the front (left) hip socket. The problem is he has hit very very well with this swing so he does not have a sense of urgency when it comes to making improvements. In both clips, he is using a 20 oz bat.
http://www.etex.net/~gfklein/Graphics/06151GLKFTSide.gif http://www.etex.net/~klklein/06151GLKFTFront.gif

With respect to the oldest, CFK, he fights with opening the front knee and foot early to clear the way for the hips. It comes and goes. Also, he fights with what I call goose-necking. If you look in the front view at contact, his spine will be goose-necked instead of straight. This problem comes and goes. In the side clip, he is using a 22 oz bat. In the front clip, he is using a 29 oz bat.
http://www.etex.net/~klklein/06150CFKFTSide.gif http://www.etex.net/~klklein/06150CFKFTFront.gif

I have looked at hours upon hours of video of these boys daily for nearly a year. Relative to their peers, they take a tremendous amount of swings; on the average at least 250 a week each and year around. I am at the point were I need some fresh eyes looking at their swings and giving me opinions, advice, and analysis from a fresh perspective.

I do have one special request. Dmac, I am very interested in your opinion but also would greatly appreciate you taking the time to count frames for each and letting me know what your count is.

[Ohfor]

Short on time right now, but if I remember his old swing correctly, the oldest has made some major strides.

[GFK]

after 107 views? Come on people. Let me hear what you have to say.

[TDS]

The 8.7 Year old is way ahead of his time. I used his clip as an example for our high schoolers. I have also used Ohfer's Son Brandon as an example. This clip is a great example of the big muscles controlling PCR.

[dougmac]

The following clips are of my sons CJK, GLK, and CFK who are 8.7, 10.4, and 11.4 years old respectively. We started our PCR journey approximately a year ago with the help of Fungo22 and Steve Englishbey. Since then, we have received a lot of priceless advice and direction from Ohfor, Mark H, SSarge, FlippJ, DamageG (if I am correct in who I think you are), Dmac, Paul Nyman, and countless others. (Mark H, your advice to compare everything said to video of the best is my litmus test for everything!)

With respect to the youngest, CJK, he has a very developed work ethic and is a perfectionist. The swing you see in the clips is how he hits off a live ball (machine or game). I am thinking of adding his stride back in but need to get some face time with Fungo22 (and Steve E if he comes to town) to make sure I do it correctly. In both clips, he is using a 19 oz bat.
http://www.etex.net/~gfklein/Graphics/06151CJKFTSide.gif http://www.etex.net/~gfklein/Graphics/06151CJKFTFront.gif

With respect to the middle son, GLK, he has fought bat drag and top-arm dominance issues off and on again. His shoulders stop rotation at near to contact and his top arm takes over. It looks as if his hip rotation is not pivoting on the front (left) hip socket. The problem is he has hit very very well with this swing so he does not have a sense of urgency when it comes to making improvements. In both clips, he is using a 20 oz bat.
http://www.etex.net/~gfklein/Graphics/06151GLKFTSide.gif http://www.etex.net/~klklein/06151GLKFTFront.gif

With respect to the oldest, CFK, he fights with opening the front knee and foot early to clear the way for the hips. It comes and goes. Also, he fights with what I call goose-necking. If you look in the front view at contact, his spine will be goose-necked instead of straight. This problem comes and goes. In the side clip, he is using a 22 oz bat. In the front clip, he is using a 29 oz bat.
http://www.etex.net/~klklein/06150CFKFTSide.gif http://www.etex.net/~klklein/06150CFKFTFront.gif

I have looked at hours upon hours of video of these boys daily for nearly a year. Relative to their peers, they take a tremendous amount of swings; on the average at least 250 a week each and year around. I am at the point were I need some fresh eyes looking at their swings and giving me opinions, advice, and analysis from a fresh perspective.

I do have one special request. Dmac, I am very interested in your opinion but also would greatly appreciate you taking the time to count frames for each and letting me know what your count is.


GFK, I am on the road right now watching the College regional in Malibu (Pepperdine), but when I get home Monday, I will give you a frame count of your boys. The boys having fun playing the game is the most imortant thing of all.

[Mark H]

I've got to get up at five to go to a tourney and I want to look at these carefully. I'll be back after the weekend. Brief note, I don't like the head laying over.

[hiddengem]

GFK, I am on the road right now watching the College regional in Malibu (Pepperdine), but when I get home Monday, I will give you a frame count of your boys. The boys having fun playing the game is the most imortant thing of all.


Ahhh..my old stomping grounds. Don't get a sunburn.:D

[Jake83]

Ahhh..my old stomping grounds. Don't get a sunburn.:D

I would be more worried about the girls at Pepperdine than a sunburn.

[hiddengem]

[FONT="Arial"] Relative to their peers, they take a tremendous amount of swings; on the average at least 250 a week each and year around.


I hope your boys don't get burned out.

[hiddengem]

I would be more worried about the girls at Pepperdine than a sunburn.

Wasn't that great.

[GFK]

waiting for your responses. I value your opinions and analysis.

GFK, I am on the road right now watching the College regional in Malibu (Pepperdine), but when I get home Monday, I will give you a frame count of your boys. The boys having fun playing the game is the most imortant thing of all.

Me in my own self-centered little world assumed that if I did not have any plans for the weekend, everyone else must be lounging around the house looking for something to get into.

I've got to get up at five to go to a tourney and I want to look at these carefully. I'll be back after the weekend. Brief note, I don't like the head laying over.

Usually the more the head lays over, the more pronounced the two-plane swing. We have been fighting this for a good while. Any suggestions? I suspect it has to do with the top hand hijacking the swing after it starts.

I hope your boys don't get burned out.

At this stage, they spend on average approximately 40 minutes a day throwing and swinging. The games are their candy! I do not say a word to them other than "good job" during the games. The success they have during the games is the reward for all the hard work they put in outside of the games. I do worry about burnout. I have noticed the overwhelming majority that drop out of baseball drop out because their skill level (due to lack of knowledge and practice) drops behind their peers to the point that they no longer have fun in the games. Hiddengem and Dmac, I don't think you two fully realize how much everyone values your input (even when they disagree with you). You two offer a perspective 99.9% of us will never have.

[fungo22]

Number 1 Son
Most improved. He needs to lift his box and get it and his bat perpendicular to his spine as part of his upper body load. The first movement of the knob is too much downwards. It works out on this swing because the pitch is low, but on higher pitches his swing path would be too downwards and he's have to make adjustments with his hands/arms to get the bat to the ball. It also gives him a larger frame count. I'll let DMac tell you how many because I'm afraid of disagreeing with him.

His load/unload of the middle and rotation is now better than the other two.

Number 2 Son
Still fighting bat drag because he still has a hand/arm motor program in my opinion. He does not appear to me to be connecting his bat to his body and rotating it to the ball. He's still trying to swing it with his hands/arms. He is rotating but that is not what is launching his swing.

His torso leans toward the ball as he turns. He needs to firm up his torso and turn it with his pelvic muscles instead of leaning his upper body to the ball. Steve's got a drill. Call me or come South young man.

Number 3 Son
Pretty good rotation, but tends to push his hands to the ball ahead of his rotation. He sits a little to load for his turn, but I think he can do a better job of loading with a little coil.

Best swing path of the three, getting the bat perpendicular to the rotation and the knob direction changed.

All three have made significant improvement, in my opinion. Sorry it took me so long to reply, but I can only view the forum from home and I have to outsmart my modem to download clips. And I'm not that smart.

BTW: I'm looking at the side-view clips only.

[Jake Patterson]

I do worry about burnout. I have noticed the overwhelming majority that drop out of baseball drop out because their skill level (due to lack of knowledge and practice) drops behind their peers to the point that they no longer have fun in the games.

GFK, I believe it was the National Alliance of Youth Sports that conducted an evaluation on why a majority of children quit baseball before the age of 12. Three top reasons were over bearing parents, overbearing coaches and lack of qualified coaches (training).

Based on what you are saying above I believe you keep it fun -

I am waiting on some of the others to comment on your boys' swing. I am trying to change the way I teach hitting from linear to rotational and I learn a great deal from the guys here. One issue I would have is the amount of head movement I see. All three boys get the alingnment of their eyes almost perpendicular to the ground. I am not sure how well you can see a ball by doing this. The head is in such a state of transition I would think it difficult for the eyes to track at their optimum level. As I sit here I am looking at the clock and am turning my head perpendicular to the floor - I lose my ability to make out any numbers. If you look at clips of Pujols, Ortiz, etc. the position of their head moves little when compared to the boys... It will be interesting to see what others think.

[GFK]

Number 1 Son
Most improved. He needs to lift his box and get it and his bat perpendicular to his spine as part of his upper body load. The first movement of the knob is too much downwards. It works out on this swing because the pitch is low, but on higher pitches his swing path would be too downwards and he's have to make adjustments with his hands/arms to get the bat to the ball. It also gives him a larger frame count. I'll let DMac tell you how many because I'm afraid of disagreeing with him.

His load/unload of the middle and rotation is now better than the other two.

Number 2 Son
Still fighting bat drag because he still has a hand/arm motor program in my opinion. He does not appear to me to be connecting his bat to his body and rotating it to the ball. He's still trying to swing it with his hands/arms. He is rotating but that is not what is launching his swing.

His torso leans toward the ball as he turns. He needs to firm up his torso and turn it with his pelvic muscles instead of leaning his upper body to the ball. Steve's got a drill. Call me or come South young man.

Number 3 Son
Pretty good rotation, but tends to push his hands to the ball ahead of his rotation. He sits a little to load for his turn, but I think he can do a better job of loading with a little coil.

Best swing path of the three, getting the bat perpendicular to the rotation and the knob direction changed.

All three have made significant improvement, in my opinion. Sorry it took me so long to reply, but I can only view the forum from home and I have to outsmart my modem to download clips. And I'm not that smart.

BTW: I'm looking at the side-view clips only.

I think you are dead on in your analysis. With respect to the youngest, when I added the pelvic load into it, he had a much larger load. Then, as time progressed, it transitioned into a much smaller, quicker load. It has him hitting the ball hard and getting to the ball quick. I don't know if I should have him increase it again or not. What do you think?

I will send you a PM with direct links to the clips so that you can grab them one at a time. It amazes me I can get DSL out here in the booneys but the thriving metropolis you live in still does not offer it.:atthepc

[GFK]

the youngest one (CJK) doing that makes him quicker to the ball than the oldest two? It may be just me counting frames incorrectly but it appears the youngest one is at least a frame quicker than his two older brothers. This is consistant with all the other video I have taken.

Maybe the question should be what are the older two doing that makes them a frame slower than their little brother.

[dougmac]

Hi, I don't have much time this morning to give my opinion on their swings, but I got the frame count.

1. the little guy is 5+ frames to contact
2. the middle guy is about 6 3/4 frames to contact
3. the big guy is 6 frames to contact.

[Mark H]

I'm still running as well, but I'm thinking 5+ frames on a kid this age is pretty darn good. Especially given a no bs pro scout frame counting. Wonder what he'll do when he adds a load unload like the oldest or some other form of momentum development.

[jojab]

What is the youngest one (CJK) doing that makes him quicker to the ball than the oldest two?

I like the little guy. He does the best job of connecting the bat to his body and just using the middle to turn on the ball. To me this frame shows what is getting the knob around the corner.

I'd be interested in hearing what you did with him in the area of "connection" as I think it is incredibly good for a kid his age.

[jojab]

The middle one shows us what he’s using to get the knob around the corner here. I don’t think it is his middle. Rather it is shoulder and arm driven.

[Mark H]

Nice work Jojab.

[jojab]

The oldest on shows us in this still that he has disconnected. Note how steep his shoulder tilt is. He is using his hands to find the ball. Note also the space between the front forearm and his chest has collapsed. He is too upright. He shouldn’t use his shoulders to dip to the ball but rather he should tilt his spine.

[jojab]

Nice work Jojab.

Thanks Mark. Having twin 10 year olds, a seven year old and a five year old, I can appreciate what GFK is doing here. This is good stuff! I wish he lived across the street from me as we'd have to set up a PCR training center in the 'hood.

[GFK]

I like the little guy. He does the best job of connecting the bat to his body and just using the middle to turn on the ball. To me this frame shows what is getting the knob around the corner.

I'd be interested in hearing what you did with him in the area of "connection" as I think it is incredibly good for a kid his age.

He has benefitted from the trial and error with the oldest two. Also, he had considerably less de-programming to do. The oldest two were locked in on an arm swing by the time we started down the PCR road.

I may be to close to make the call, but he also has better command of his body. I can show him slow motion video and he can emulate it without much guidance.

[Mark H]

That's one kind of athletic gift right there.

[chesspirate]

I'd like to chime in here.

The first thing that caught my eye was how the boys start with the bat laid back a touch, the first and third more than the second boy but they all do it to some degree. Now of course, the bat moves into a more favorable launch position, but it's interesting how they all three share that start to some degree. I just wonder why they all share that trait.

Also, i don't think any of the boys are getting the angles set with thier bottom hand allowing the easiest position for the body to 'pull' the bat around instead of pushing it. Think of using a hammer on a nail and using only wrist flex to move the hammer. I think the oldest boy has the least problem with this.

Lastly my odd comment. Sometimes i just sense things and can't quite understand them, so anybody help me out here.
I 'feel' that with all three boys the power from rotation is coming from or concentrated on the rear half of the body, and not from the center. Again, i said this is just a sense i'm getting, so take it for what it's worth.

Do you ever use the cue "hit the ball with the back shoulder"??

[GFK]

...Do you ever use the cue "hit the ball with the back shoulder"??

Before I started to study the swing in depth, I was like a lot of other well intentioned dads. I would hear a cue that sounded good and use it. Later I realized I didn't know the intent of the cue so I stopped using it.

[chesspirate]

My intent about asking about that cue was to see if movements made by all three boys had a foundation in teaching.

Like I mentioned in my previous post, it looks to me like the swing is powered by the backside, and one of the things that made me think that is the path the back shoulders take in the swing.

I was not recommending or commenting on this particular cue, just asking if it was being used.