Why do the M's keep trotting Eddie Guardado out there?

[Blackout]

I know he was Everyday Eddie last year and the year before, but this year he stinks

as a proud fantasy owner of JJ Putz, I fail to see why eddie and his 5.40 ERA was put in there today in the 10th inning

[Naliamegod]

Because our manager is Mike Hargrove

[leecemark]

--That pretty much sums it up. Hargrove is just a terrible manager who can be counted on to get the wrong guy out there at the wrong time as often as anybody.

[papa~smurf]

I miss Lou.

I think the real reason he put Eddie out there is to give the keep the bull-pen fresh, but seriously, he shouldn't be putting Eddie out in a close game, where there is pressure on him, because he obviously can't handle it anymore.

[ichiro262]

Yeah, it's getting kind of ridiculous. I was watching today and I really knew that somebody was going to hit a homerun.

[skeletor]

Because our manager is Mike Hargrove


well..things could be worse..you guys could have Buddy Bell or
Alan Trammel as Seattle's skipper...actually, Trammel wasn't
all that bad..he just needed more experience..as mgr, ( maybe
some time in AAA learning the ropes better) and had the bad luck
of being saddled with some horrible Detroit clubs....

Bell has had three shots as mgr, ( Tigers,Rockies,Royals) and ain't
done squat...He's better as a coach, than field czar..

Hargrove...well..what can I say about the former wizard of tribe
baseball ? is he better than Bob Melvin ? :eek:

[leecemark]

--He is about the same as Bob Melvin. Which makes him worse since Hargrove has been managing for a long time and the Mariners were Melvin's first shot. Hargrove has apparently learned nothing from all his experience.
--As for Guardado I don't think the problem is he can't handle pressure anymore. I think the problem is he isn't a very good pitcher anymore. Its his arm, not his head, thats the problem.

[JohnGelnarFan]

It looks like he's lost the closer job to Putz,at least for now. He's actually pitched well over his last 10 games. Maybe they don't want to keep him out of save situations completely,in case Putz starts to falter. How much is he making this year? I'll bet that's in management's mind.

[ichiro262]

he makes $6.25 million i think

[papa~smurf]

The thing is, we have TWO decent closers other than Eddie. Putz has been outstanding, but Soriano has been just as dependable. I don't see Putz faltering but if he does, Soriano is there to back him up. Putting Eddie out there makes about as much sense as going to war with the French on your side, you lose.

[JohnGelnarFan]

If Eddie is losing some of his stuff,he's been around long enough to be a setup guy. I don't get to see him very often so you guys know better. Many veteran pitchers make the adjustment and last quite awhile longer. John Franco and Jesse Orosco come to mind. At 6.5 Million a year,I'd accept the change!


he makes $6.25 million i think

[Naliamegod]

--He is about the same as Bob Melvin. Which makes him worse since Hargrove has been managing for a long time and the Mariners were Melvin's first shot. Hargrove has apparently learned nothing from all his experience.

I think Bob Melvin is a genius compared to Hargrove. Atleast Melvin appeared to have something going on in his head. Hargrove seems like he's TRYING to lose.

[papa~smurf]

Bob Melvin didn't get all that much production from his players.

[Rennie Stennett]

Eddie has stunk it up this year. You hope he can snap out of it and at least be a set up guy, as mention in this thread, or perhaps with a group of guys that can all close and set up. It would take the pressure off Eddie and he can work on his game and gain some confidence. We need him to pitch well. It does look as though Eddie's Arm is toast.

Seattle, as bad as they play at times are still in the race. Five games back the last I looked. If they continue to play close to .500 ball, they have a chance to be in the race. It should make for an interesting trading deadline. What do the M's do ? Do they dump payroll and release some of these overpaid guys and let some young kids play ? Does it matter if we are 5 games back at the deadline or 15 games back ? I think Morse can play some third and I know he can hit .200

The least Hargrove could do is toss a base into the outfield and kick some dirt around.

[ichiro262]

Wow Guardado. You can't be serious. The guy is terrible -- so far he has faced two hitters in San Diego (EY and Cameron) and they both went yard. Does he put flubber on the ball before he throws it?

[Rennie Stennett]

Wow Guardado. You can't be serious. The guy is terrible -- so far he has faced two hitters in San Diego (EY and Cameron) and they both went yard. Does he put flubber on the ball before he throws it?

LOL........!

[Mariner Fan]

I saw that too. Man, they put Eddie in there and I'm thinking "here we go again". You would think that he could do some set up work but that isn't working either. About all you can do with him is march him out there when we have a big enough lead to absorb a couple of runs.

I still chuckle when they say Eddie is our closer. He will never get the job back from JJ. Putz is pitching better than Eddie has even when he was good. At least it's not a position job that is being manned by a guy who is past his prime AKA Boone, Oleroud.

Yea, Eddie makes 6 mil or so. I do believe he is on a one year contract and he does alot with the young pitchers in the bull pen. Unless something changes he will be gone next year.

[Rennie Stennett]

I saw that too. Man, they put Eddie in there and I'm thinking "here we go again". You would think that he could do some set up work but that isn't working either. About all you can do with him is march him out there when we have a big enough lead to absorb a couple of runs.

I still chuckle when they say Eddie is our closer. He will never get the job back from JJ. Putz is pitching better than Eddie has even when he was good. At least it's not a position job that is being manned by a guy who is past his prime AKA Boone, Oleroud.

Yea, Eddie makes 6 mil or so. I do believe he is on a one year contract and he does alot with the young pitchers in the bull pen. Unless something changes he will be gone next year.

I think your right about Eddie. We sure could use him, if he could pitch effectively. Even when he hits his spots he gets rocked. :grouchy

[ichiro262]

Yeah...he just doesn't have it anymore. Everytime he walks out onto the field I am shocked for about 15 seconds -- and then I brace myself for the train wreck. What's worse, Hargrove was quoted as saying he still has a lot of confidence in Eddie to go out there and get the job done. Guardado said he was thankful that Hargrove let him finish that inning and that it was a fair move on the coach's part.

OK -- for anyone who didn't watch the rest of that inning -- after the two homers the next guy hit one that would have hit the wall if Reed hadn't snagged it and the guy after that (Giles, I think) hit one that looked like it was long gone of the bat and strangely died in right about 20 feet shy of the warning track. Then, after giving up another hit, Guardado got the next guy to ground out sharply to second. WHY THE HELL DOES HARGROVE HAVE CONFIDENCE IN HIM??? The game could have easily been lost that inning without some luck. It's clear that Guardado has absolutely nothing left in the tank. He just needs to be a mentor and NEVER step on the field again. EVER. He is probably one of the worst pitchers in the league right now. I hate to be so harsh, but he's just terrible. Sorry, Eddie.

[Rennie Stennett]

They say that Eddie is great in the clubhouse. Always the practical joker keeping everyone loose. A liaison to the young latin players. This is important. It's nice to have everybody relaxed.

Nobody hurts more or puts more pressure on themselves than Eddie. His mind must be going sideways now. He went from one of the best closers in the game to a situational lefty at best, and mop up guy at the worst. SABRMATT, I think, mentioned that Eddie's shoulder is mush. The league knows it and the M's know it, but no one is stepping up to say anything. The M's for sure won't say anything, because they are a bunch of nice guys. Eddie has a bunch of pride and he won't say anything. Now, I don't know, if it's Eddie's head that is messed up or his mechanics or that his shoulder is just mush as Matt says, how long do we continue this ? We are in a divisonal race. Seven games separate top to the bottom. Eddie has hurt us with blown saves early on, and now he makes save opprotunities out of blow outs. It he is done, Eddie needs to step forward and say so.

[ichiro262]

July 2: Eddie has done it again. Wow. I can't get over how bad he is. It's like he can't just get that last out or make that last pitch. He is DONE.

[Mariner Fan]

July 2: Eddie has done it again. Wow. I can't get over how bad he is. It's like he can't just get that last out or make that last pitch. He is DONE.


+1.....Baseball is a tough sport. I can't remember the last time Eddie was good. Last year he pulled through on guts but even that is gone now. Grover is the type of manager that rewards veteran players for great work in the past. Problem is that this type of manager is paralyzed to make changes that will help the club.

Eddie should be assigned, straight and simple. He’s used up. Love him but he’s hurting the club.

Joel needs to go down to Tacoma to work out his pitching woes.

The center field situation needs to be resolved. Reed is hurt but has hurt the club with his bat. Everyone is screaming for Ichiro to go to center field and bring up a corner fielder with a better bat. Sounds like a plan to me. So is the manager running the club or is Ichiro?

[SABR Matt]

Guardado and Everett should both be released and Pineiro should be optioned to AAA again.

[Rennie Stennett]

Guardado and Everett should both be released and Pineiro should be optioned to AAA again.

For Pineiro, It's nothing a bleach blonde hair-do can't fix. :laugh Seriously, the last time the M's wanted to send him down he freaked out.

I sure hope it's Guardado's head or mechanics that suck. The M's sure could use his left arm if it's effective.

[Mariner Fan]

For Pineiro, It's nothing a bleach blonde hair-do can't fix. :laugh Seriously, the last time the M's wanted to send him down he freaked out.

I sure hope it's Guardado's head or mechanics that suck. The M's sure could use his left arm if it's effective.


Eddie's arm is shot. It was last year and now is really showing up.

I believe Joel's problems is mental. Maybe putting him in Tripple A will help him. So what if he freaks out? He's sucking and should be put down. Could be a shot in the arm for him to put it together.

[ichiro262]

Yeah, I wouldn't be opposed to sending Piniero down and letting someone new have a start or two. Maybe Sean Green, I don't know. Maybe somebody from AAA.
But back to Eddie. I can't stand this bs. He is terrible. I want to scream at Hargrove every time he steps on the field. The last time he pitched an inning without allowing a hit or walk (let alone runs) was June 10. You just have to expect him to blow hard every time he pitches. If there is anyone the M's should have or should designate for a assignment over the last few years -- it's Eddie.

[SABR Matt]

Cruceta should start for Pineiro (who was demoted to the pen in the short term)...Sean Green has been DL'ed which means Fruto may be on his way back up.

[leecemark]

--Not watching tonight's game? Fruto pitched, but not well. Pinero came in and got us out of a jam in the 9th (of course we were already down 7-1). I'd just as soon never see Guardado or Pinero pitch a meaningfull inning for the M's again this year, but I'm not sure we have any decent in house options (give Woods a shot?). One of them I guess is okay for mopup work, but at least one needs to go.

[SABR Matt]

Fruto needs to start learning to pitch in the bigs. He's mastered AAA.

**** Pineiro.

Anyway, we appear to be working on several trade routes to acquire a starting pitcher according to everything I'm hearing. And Woods is expected to get Pineiro's next start unless things go wonky or we get a trade done.

[Rennie Stennett]

Eddie's arm is shot. It was last year and now is really showing up.

I believe Joel's problems is mental. Maybe putting him in Tripple A will help him. So what if he freaks out? He's sucking and should be put down. Could be a shot in the arm for him to put it together.

You may be right. Was it last year or the one before, when they wanted to send him down ? He's had troubles the past few years, it's hard to remember. They called him into the office to tell him and he freaked, so instead of going with the plan to send him down, he missed some starts.
The Mariner's site mentioned he was over throwing. What's new ? Someone said his fastball used to have movement. i remember it always being flat. As said earlier, his fastball mph is way down. This does not mean he can't pitch, but if the gap between his braking balls and off speed pitches are close to the mph of his fastball, he could be done, unless he hits his spots.

They lessoned the work load for Meche on his off days and it seems to have helped. Perhaps this will help Joel.

The Atlanta Braves for years long tossed on their off days and did considerable work, which worked for them. They had some great pitchers though. Have they thought of stretching out Mateo and eventually start him ? He does a great job in the pen: Long relief, Middle relief, and if needed, he could close. He's great.

[ichiro262]

I think it's a stretch to call Mateo "great." He's a good middle reliever that you should keep around, but a lot of times he has control problems. I would be more inclined to let someone (Cha Seung Baek, Cruceta, maybe Livingston) a shot. What are some of the moves we are thinking about making for starting pitching? I haven't heard anything.

P.S. Remember that time we almost got Bronson Arroyo for Jeremy Reed? If only...

[SABR Matt]

Cha Seung Baek is not a prospect and should not be on this team.

[leecemark]

--I was totally opposed to the rumored Reed for Arroyo trade. Guess my crystal ball let me down there (not that Bavasi was asking my opinon:p ). Reed has been far worse and Arroyo far better than I thought possible.
--Anybody still think Reed is going to be more than a decent 4th outfielder/marginal starter? I think his broken thumb might turn out to be a blessing for the Ms. They are forced to try some other options (Choo first, maybe Snelling or shifting Ichiro later).

[SABR Matt]

Agreed there Mark.

Reed is mystifying...I can't figure out why he went wrong, but his bat is slow. Very long slow swing and it's killing him. He's a nice 4th outfielder and nothing more.

[Mariner Fan]

Agreed there Mark.

Reed is mystifying...I can't figure out why he went wrong, but his bat is slow. Very long slow swing and it's killing him. He's a nice 4th outfielder and nothing more.

Agreed. I’ve wondered about bringing Choo up for quite awhile. Now we will get to see him. Looks like he has potential.

[Seattle1]

Agreed. I’ve wondered about bringing Choo up for quite awhile. Now we will get to see him. Looks like he has potential.

Nice double on his first at bat last night. Finally got to Weaver, too bad the other guys couldn't do a little more in that regard too.

[SABR Matt]

That double was very close to going out too...just a little more underneath that ball and it's a rocket HR in his first at bat.

[ichiro262]

Cha Seung Baek is not a prospect and should not be on this team.


Why are you so totally against Baek? He has a 3.18 ERA (best at Tacoma) in 16 starts and has K'd 59 to 23 walks. He's a bit of a fly-ball pitcher, but that actually fits into the Safe pretty well. He is 26, so that is a little old. But other than that, I guess I don't see the huge problem (keep in mind Cruceta is 25). Not saying you're wrong, but please explain.

[SABR Matt]

Baek throws a mid 80s (occasionally touching upper 80s) straight fastball, a weak rolling sliderish pitch, and a good change-up. He's got OK but unspectacular control and his K rate is ABYSMAL for AAA and 26 years old. At the big league level he would compare favorably to John Halama were he to pitch lefty...he's right handed instead making him even less valuable.

[ichiro262]

Baek throws a mid 80s (occasionally touching upper 80s) straight fastball, a weak rolling sliderish pitch, and a good change-up. He's got OK but unspectacular control and his K rate is ABYSMAL for AAA and 26 years old. At the big league level he would compare favorably to John Halama were he to pitch lefty...he's right handed instead making him even less valuable.

Throwing in the mid-80s is not a problem at all if you can keep hitters off balance with your other pitches. Pitchers like Greg Maddux and Jamie Moyer have proved that. I'm not saying he's close to as good as either of those guys, just that the velocity on your fastball isn't all that important unless that's all you have (in which case you probably won't last long anyway). I admit, his strikeout rate isn't very good. I guess I just think he deserves a shot at the big league level. I think he's earned that. And if you aren't going to use him, you may as well trade him while his numbers still show him in a favorable light.

[GilMeche$]

Hargrove...well..what can I say about the former wizard of tribe
baseball ? is he better than Bob Melvin ? :eek:[/QUOTE] YES! seems like Melvin is ALWAYS ejected!

[Rennie Stennett]

Everyday Eddie Guardado got the Save in Cincinnati's win. Ken Griffey Jr. hit number 555. Eight behind Reggie Jackson.

[ichiro262]

Everyday Eddie Guardado got the Save in Cincinnati's win. Ken Griffey Jr. hit number 555. Eight behind Reggie Jackson.

Those ex-Mariners are tearing it up. Now, if only Randy Johnson would start too...he's on my fantasy team. :laugh

[papa~smurf]

Ha, the only thing Griffey has been tearing up in Cincinnatti is his tendons. I am glad to see that he is finally having a productive season though.

[SABR Matt]

Hargrove...well..what can I say about the former wizard of tribe
baseball ? is he better than Bob Melvin ? :eek: YES! seems like Melvin is ALWAYS ejected![/QUOTE]

Grover wasn't the wizard of anything in Cleveland...he just had such a ridiculou cluster of young talents come up all at once that it was impossible for him to fail.

[papa~smurf]

Eddie pitched a scoreless 9th and got his 2nd save in as many days.

[SABR Matt]

All of which goes to confirm my continued conviction that the National League is no longer a Major League.

That league is probably less talented and competitive than the Nippon League now.

How else do you explain Freddie Sanchez hitting .358...LOL

[Rennie Stennett]

Everyday Eddie Saves another game for the Reds. Who did he used to play for ?

[Ghost]

Ha, the only thing Griffey has been tearing up in Cincinnatti is his tendons. I am glad to see that he is finally having a productive season though.


Griffey had a very productive season for the Reds last year.

[Mariner Fan]

Everyday Eddie Saves another game for the Reds. Who did he used to play for ?

Yes he had another save with three pop up's. Eddie is going to have a margin of success in the National League since they haven't seen him pitch yet and the NL is inferior to the AL. But once the batters have gotten to see Eddie pitch they will light him up also.

Don't fret about Eddie leaving the Mariners. He isn't half the pitcher that Putz is right now. We have the right guy for the closer spot.

[Rennie Stennett]

Don't fret about Eddie leaving the Mariners.
No Fret Here Son. They're big league ballplayers ! I'm so sick of this crap about the National League, like they are a bunch of pikers or something. Sheesh ! National League teams are set up to play in the National League, where the Pitcher's hit and they have no DH, just so you know. In real baseball the Pitchers hit.

[Rennie Stennett]

Another Save for Eddie...

[papa~smurf]

You forgot to mention he had a 3 run lead going in, and he gave up another homer before he put them away.

[leecemark]

--Classic Eddie:clapping . He is a good man to hold down those 3 run leads (who isn't?), but when a game realling needs saving (as opposed to a save situation) he isn't such a good choice. Glad he is doing okay with the Reds though. I'm rooting for them to hold on to the division and Guardado is a good guy.

[Rennie Stennett]

You forgot to mention he had a 3 run lead going in, and he gave up another homer before he put them away.

I didn't forget to mention anything...:clapping

I'm pulling for the Reds, also. They have not lost since they made that big trade...

[Rennie Stennett]

In typical Mariner fashion, the M's trade Guardado to the Reds a few weeks past and he's doing good. Way To Go Eddie ! It always works that way for the M's. Trade 'em and then they are giant killers !

"Things are going our way right now, and hopefully they'll continue to go our way into October," Guardado said. "I've been lucky. There's still a long way to go. We're going to hit some bumps, but I don't want to make the bumps too big."



The Reds are 7-2 since the break.

[SABR Matt]

The National League is no longer of major league quality. If you were watching during inter-league...this was made abundantly clear. It's not surprising that Guardado is succeeding in what amounts to AAA2.

[Rennie Stennett]

I'll take any National League team and you can have the AAA All-Star team and the NL team will kick your fanny all over the park !

[leecemark]

--There is pretty clearly a talent imbalance between the leagues, but Matt overstates the case.