Sticky

[Brian McKenna]

at the risk of being the first jerk to say this - i am not a fan of the sticky feature

biggest complaint is having to page down the screen just to see what is being discussed - especially in the busier sections like history of the game where a current topic might be pushed onto page two - i see no regular threads on the screen when i log into the history of the game forum

i can see having a photo thread permanently at the top - kinda nice since it would otherwise float out of sight, but:

do we need at the top:?
a thread about members opinions?
silly polls?
subjective ranking threads
who are we?
a thread that discusses photos?
all-star teams?

isn't the idea already that if something is a hot topic, the natural flow of discusion will keep it at the top?

[digglahhh]

I can't say I disagree with you.

I rarely, if ever open those stickied threads atop the history forum.

I have nothing against the sticky itself, but I agree that it is currently overused in the History Forum.

As to the Who Are We thread, I see no problem with it having a sticky, but it probably fits best here.

[Bill Burgess]

Re: Sticky

A mod brought this thread to my attention. So, I will clarify why the History Forum has 6 stickies. I did this about 24 hours ago. This was the very first time I had ever stuck a thread.

I will share my thinking, since 2 members felt strongly enough to post concerning it.

It has been brought to my attention by others that Fever is receiving well-deserved attention online. We are becoming a place where others come for reference. To see what we think, what our consensus' are. What are our collective opinions.

So, to that effect, I tried to make their 'searches' easier. I took it upon myself, on my own authority, to let them find our "Gold", by sticking our better threads.

Now, if you want to accuse me of bias, and putting "MY OWN" threads up there, I plead 'guilty, with an explanation'.

If by 'my threads', you mean Fever members opinions, that's what I stuck.

I stuck, "Who Are We", because it is, by far, History's most popular thread. Viewed by over 33,000 times. Most threads do well if they get 1,000 hits.

I put our new Photo Gallery, because we just finished it, and it has gotten over 20,000 views, in only 77 days. It's bringing in INTERNET traffic guys.

It's acting like red meat, a marquee attraction, and google/yahoo 'image searches' will bring a lot of new traffic here. And while they're browsing the photos, they'll get to see how bright we are.

I also stuck 'Members' Official Opinions". That's where the new browsers will find our real value. Why hide it on the 10 page back, in the archive. Why not display it under a glass, like roast pheasant?

I also created a new thread, so the guys could give me feedback on what kinds of photos they liked, so I could know what to look for. New players or old, color or b/w, teams, ballparks. What? So I stuck that.

Also 2 polls, which show our beliefs.

So, that is what the controversy is about? My ONLY purpose is to build up Fever as a totally interesting, exciting place to go to get the best baseball discussion available. And if I chose to put a little icing on the knowledge cake, such as fantastic photos, why can't you guys learn to use the PM to ask me what the strategy is?

I'll be glad to share the tactics. The 2 survey/polls will be there a matter of days and be unstuck. That will leave:
"Who Are We?"
"Member's Official Opinions"
"Photos"

And, uh, guys, just to lend some perspective to this little topic, I perused the other forums, just out of curiosity. And here what showed for today.

Fantasy Forum has 8 stickies.
White Sox Forum has 8 stickies.
Brooklyn has 6 stickies.
Cardinals has 5 stickies.
Yankees has 5 stickies.
Red Sox has 4 stickies.
LA Dodgers has 4 stickies.
Hall of Fame, Tigers, Cubs, Mets and Expos all have 3 stickies each.
Orioles and Current Events have 2 stickies.
Many others forums had 1 sticky.

But I put 6 stickies up in the History Forum, and within 24 hours, I get red-flagged as to what is going on.

Within the week, 3 of them will be unstuck, leaving History with 3 stickies.

This has been a test for me to not post with an 'attitude', haughtiness or rancor.

Bill Burgess

[Baseball Guru]

Whew, thanks for taking the hit Bill.. I thought I was going to be lynched;)

My Mets stickies are game recaps, 2006 Met stats and 2006 Mets schedule with results:)

[Bill Burgess]

at the risk of being the first jerk to say this - i am not a fan of the sticky feature

biggest complaint is having to page down the screen just to see what is being discussed - especially in the busier sections like history of the game where a current topic might be pushed onto page two - i see no regular threads on the screen when i log into the history of the game forum

i can see having a photo thread permanently at the top - kinda nice since it would otherwise float out of sight, but:

do we need at the top:?
a thread about members opinions? You are a regular. I'm trying to think like a newcomer, browsing Fever for the 1st time.
silly polls? The 2 polls I 'stuck' show our collective wisdom to the world. Making it convenient for the rest of the BB community to scan our 'knowlege pool' without 'digging the archive graveyard' for worthwhile scraps.
subjective ranking threads Again, we are now 'perceived' as having good quality knowlege. I'm trying to hold up a neon sign, "Here's what we think. Maybe wrong, but we think this."
who are we? We've had some members lobbying for non-baseball specific interaction. By FAR, the most popular thread History ever had. 30,000 viewed.
a thread that discusses photos?
all-star teams? You mean "Member's Official Opinions"?

isn't the idea already that if something is a hot topic, the natural flow of discusion will keep it at the top?

What might be hot for us on a given day is normally not hot for a newcomer. I normally feel that most of our topics are half-trivial. Almost tabloid. So I stuck a few of our better discussions.

Is any of this becoming understanable to you, Brian?.

[runningshoes]

No offense, but I find the threads ranking players quite boring. I like the ones where we discuss an individual player with stats, biographical info and some opinion on where they rank in history, but I get really bored looking at lists most of us already have in our heads.

The who are we thread, while interesting, doesn't belong in the History forum.

Having said that, I do admire what you do here on BBF. You are one of the few moderators here who contributes anything of any real substance and on a regular basis.

[digglahhh]

Yeah, if you are trying to impress others, the ranking of players into list form is certainly not the best we have to offer.

[2Chance]

originally posted by runningshoes53
No offense, but I find the threads ranking players quite boring. I like the ones where we discuss an individual player with stats, biographical info and some opinion on where they rank in history, but I get really bored looking at lists most of us already have in our heads....
originally posted by digglahhh
Yeah, if you are trying to impress others, the ranking of players into list form is certainly not the best we have to offer.
I see your point, but often this leads to some good discussion. When somebody says Player A is better than Player B, and somebody else disagrees and starts giving good reasons (not necessarily stats alone), some of these have been very productive, informative and even entertaining.

But I haven't participated in those in a long time, just for the reasons you state. Do us a favor, though: entertain us. Come loaded for bear and disagree with someone on their rankings. :D

(Why not me? Been there, done that.)

[Captain Cold Nose]

Re: Sticky



It's acting like red meat, a marquee attraction, and google/yahoo 'image searches' will bring a lot of new traffic here. And while they're browsing the photos, they'll get to see how bright we are.


Bill Burgess
The online comic strip red meat brings traffic here?

[Bill Burgess]

OK, guys. I can see you have a valid point. But still . . .

Please allow an old timer to elaborate.

Every day, I come here for many hours, and I am hardened to it! (Wink) I see one thread after another, and I sometime wonder, will the trivia never end?

Just as there is health food/junk food, health TV/junk TV, health music/junk music, there is also, with respect to baseball discussion, health discussion/junk discussion. Some of what gets posted as threads borders on crap. True tabloid baseball crap.

So, when we have one of our many poll/surveys, it feels like brain surgery/rocket science by comparison.

And as Sean (2Chance) mentioned, it almost always leads to discussion of at least some merit. But even when our discussions are of questionable quality, it makes most of the threads look like sheer crap.

I never criticize those, because that's not my place/role. I just ignore them. But poll surveys, like anything else, can be over-done. And maybe we have taken it too far. But mods get a lot of complaints that there is too much stats in history, not enough stats to prove one's case, etc.

So, all this long-winded prelude is merely to say, the stickies are not that bad. I unstuck 3 yesterday. And stuck Historical Articles, but only for around 3-4 days.

It's so easy to knock stuff, but not easy to try to create something of value on a baseball site. Many of my projects are geared to attract newcomers to our shores. Such as:

Is Wagner still a Top 5 player?
Is Matty still a top 10 pitcher?
Is Pie Traynor still a top 10 3rd baseman?
Let's Deal With Barry.
Is A-Rod Pulling on Wagner?

It takes a lot of thought to create a quality, interesting controversy, which isn't self-evident. I try to think of questions which are relevant, and will divide the membership. Like Joe Jackson Innocence. Generated a lot of sparks, but no consensus. So I thought that debate was a raging success.

Am I getting any resonance here with you guys?

Bill Burgess

[538280]

I'm with Bill on this one-by stickying those threads we will get some marquee threads out there in the open for everyone to see, and when we get guests visting our site they will see those threads, and decide to become members. That is how we get some of our best contributors. I was lured to this site by looking at an old thread in which different members offered opinions and gave lists about their best 2Bmen of all time. I'm sure I'm not the only one who was lured in by a thread that I found particularly interesting.

[Bill Burgess]

I'm with Bill on this one-by stickying those threads we will get some marquee threads out there in the open for everyone to see, and when we get guests visiting our site they will see those threads, and decide to become members.
See, Chris? Whoever was betting that we would never be allies lost THAT bet. One never knows in baseball. Bet it isn't the last time we accidentally stumble and lurch into the same side. This is baseball. Anything is possible.

Bill

[SoxSon]

See, Chris? Whoever was betting that we would never be allies lost THAT bet. One never knows in baseball. Bet it isn't the last time we accidentally stumble and lurch into the same side. This is baseball. Anything is possible.

Bill

Isn't that the funny thing about being here long enough, Bill? You meet someone, dislike them, grow to like them, get annoyed by them, respect them, wish they would go away, and eventually learn to live side-by-side with them. :)

[Bill Burgess]

Isn't that the funny thing about being here long enough, Bill? You meet someone, dislike them, grow to like them, get annoyed by them, respect them, wish they would go away, and eventually learn to live side-by-side with them. :)
Sounds like America to me.

[Ubiquitous]

Not a big fan of the sticky. One or two at the same time is usually the most I think that is proper

A couple of things. A sticky isn't what brings people to this site. It is searches on google and yahoo and other sites. Somebody typing in Ryne Sandberg Hall of Fame or something like that. You don't need a sticky in order to bring people to the site. Simply the massive amounts of posts on a wide range of topics will bring people here.

The who are we thread if you like it hey that is fine but why does it have to be a sticky in the history thread and isn't that what filling out your profile is for? Practically everything in those posts can be put in your profile.

Historical Articles? I guess but how long has it been stickied and nobody has posted?

[leecemark]

--If a thread is interesting and active it won't sink. If it isn't it should. If most of the first page of a forum is tied up with stickies and not active threads then that detracts from people finding the hot topics. It isn't really a big issue for me though since I generally click new posts and avoid having stickies clog my screen.

[Ubiquitous]

ah but then you have the problem of the pointless post bringing up a lomg dead thread in your user cp and you have to wade through 7 threads in which nothing is added.

[Bill Burgess]

Not a big fan of the sticky. One or two at the same time is usually the most I think that is proper History now has 4.

A couple of things. A sticky isn't what brings people to this site. It is searches on google and yahoo and other sites. Somebody typing in Ryne Sandberg Hall of Fame or something like that. You don't need a sticky in order to bring people to the site. Simply the massive amounts of posts on a wide range of topics will bring people here.

I think you're missing the point. You're thinking like a Fever regular. True, searches bring them here, but once here, quality discussion will most likely keep them.

The who are we thread if you like it hey that is fine but why does it have to be a sticky in the history thread and isn't that what filling out your profile is for? Practically everything in those posts can be put in your profile.

Who would find it on the 10th page? It has attracted 34,000 views. It must be doing something right. Most get less than 1,000.

Historical Articles? I guess but how long has it been stickied and nobody has posted?

Historical Articles has been stuck since yesterday. If you notice, it really isn't a posting thread, but a gift, from me to the members who enjoy historical articles. If you haven't perused it, it is a rare treasure, and the kind of thread that historical fans love. It will be unstuck in a day or two.

The photos are drawing traffic from google/yahoo image searches, and hopefully, they'll notice our quality discussions, which is why I put Historical Articles upfront. See the linked strategy? I did have a plan behind the stickies.

Try thinking like a newcomer, who doesn't know anything about us. Its a different angle.

Bill

[Bill Burgess]

--If a thread is interesting and active it won't sink. If it isn't it should. If most of the first page of a forum is tied up with stickies and not active threads then that detracts from people finding the hot topics. It isn't really a big issue for me though since I generally click new posts and avoid having stickies clog my screen.

Please try to retain a balanced perspective. 2 days ago, I stuck 6 threads, and now only 4. And in a day or so, down to 3. So, it's not as if we're buried. Two other forums now have 8 stickies each, and Brooklyn normally has 4 at least.

Re: hot new threads. Oh please. Many are ridiculous and garner few replies, due to being hopelessly obscure, limited and irrelevant. Most are trivial, bordering on junk. Having a stickie of a past quality discussion, or a historical treasure like Historical Articles, is great 'bait' for newcomers, drawn by the image searches. Shows our stature, depth, quality. Few have posted on it because I don't want them to. It's not that kind of thread, Mark. Not all threads are created equal, or have the same purpose. It's intended for the serious scholar. And like I said, I will unstick it in a matter of days. Just wanted newcomers to see we're not only about trivial junk or polls. We are academic too. Not excessively, but a light sampling.

For that same reason, I considered sticking 'Dealing With Bonds', and 'Joe Jackson Innocense', but ended up not doing that. Because I could imagine the howls of protest from the members. So I chickened out. Just wanted the rush of newcomers, drawn from the image searches to see how intensely we debate, don't back off, and are willing to plumb the depths of eternity to win our discussions. But I didn't, because I wasn't ready to deal with all the whining.

There is a strategy in play here. And it's not always completely transparent to all our regulars. I'm trying to build Fever, and I'm using ideas that don't always appear obvious.

[Cubsfan97]

I dont mind the stickys, but Im curious how long the World Series ones will stay in the White Sox forum.

[Bill Burgess]

For the record, since this thread was apparently made due to my sticking 6 threads in History, it's down to 2 sticky's. Just in case anyone was still following the saga.

And even though nobody has noticed, I went to the Negro Leagues Forum, and stuck the 3 most interesting, relevant threads. Same in the Nineteenth Century Forum.

And it's worked. Both are now generating some activity. Hope it lasts.

But I did make an error also. I had stuck the Photo Gallery in Brooklyn Forum without authorization from the Forum Mod, Dodger Deb. I didn't think I was committing an unfriendly act. I thought I was securing another ornament on the Christmas tree. But I unstuck it.

I guess I can sometimes be an aggressive, pre-emptive member. Not that I'm trying to be. Just my nature, I suppose. But if ever I step on someone's toes, just let me know, and I'll show I know how to be a team player. I play by the rules, and stay within the white lines.

And oh, BTW. Since I've been building 4 Photo Galleries simultaneously, it's proven to be a massive undertaking. And I'm just now getting to the indexing. That in itself will take a long time, and a vast amount of time/energy/research. So, if y'all will just be patient with me, the indexing IS going forward.

The reason the Photos took so long, is that I cannot do the technical stuff myself. I do not have photoshop. So I had to enlist the assistance of helpers to couple, decouple, resize, color, etc.

But it's all coming to the end stages, and will get done. And when it is, the History, Negro, Nineteenth Century, and Brooklyn Forums will all have, hopefully interesting Photo Galleries, fully indexed, so everyone will know where the original source material came from. I never dreamed this project would turn out so massive.

Bill Burgess

[Yankee Legend]

I dont mind the stickys, but Im curious how long the World Series ones will stay in the White Sox forum.

For another 88 years :D

i suggest we move the "Who are we?" thread to this forum since it really has no place in the History forum.

[Bill Burgess]

i suggest we move the "Who are we?" thread to this forum since it really has no place in the History forum.

OK. I copied it to this thread. Don't know what good that'll do. The only reason I resist deleting it from History, is that is where I hang out, morning, noon and night. Heck, I didn't even look into this forum for about 3 years.

I don't think anyone will see it here, but who knows?

Now if we wanted to really generate some traffic, I could 'stick' it in Current Events, Yankee Forum or Red Sox Forum, but then, if I did, I'd always be afraid to start my car. It's a terrible thing to live in fear.

But some members in the recent past wanted to talk about themselves. So, here's their chance. Any takers?

If I see it can generate any traffic here, I'll admit I was wrong, and delete it from History.

At the bottom of the first post, I installed an index, for convenient referencing.

Bill Burgess