Should Mike Piazza and Frank Thomas retire now?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

It just pains me to see there two future HoFers struggle as they are. They were both once incredible hitters but injuries and father time has taken its toll. It is their time. They should just retire gracefully. All they are doing are dragging down their rate stats and nothing more. :( I still remember Willie McCovey retiring halfway through the 1980 season. He knew it was his time and he didn't want to embarass himself.

[Food]

I voted for Thomas, because I think he's at his end. Piazza, I'm not as certain about.

I gotta say, though, that Thomas looks like he's genuinely happy to be with the A's. He's always smiling in the dugout, and looks like he's having a great time. The fans don't mind him, either.

[Ubiquitous]

Its a shame about Frank. He basically fell off a cliff once he hit 30 (Yes I know about his age 32 season). If he had been able to even stay somewhat healthy in these seasons he would be in the 500 homer club. Heck if he had stayed healthy in just one of his injury plagued seasons he would be in the 500 homer club. As it is now he'll fall short of 500 homers and practically every season brings a few or all of his rate stats down.
Before AGE 30: .330/.452/.600
Career now: .306/.425/.566

[efin98]

Piazza isn't too bad, he has 3 HRs, 6 RBIs, and is hitting .228. It could be worse for him.

[rockin500]

It just pains me to see there two future HoFers struggle as they are. They were both once incredible hitters but injuries and father time has taken its toll. It is their time. They should just retire gracefully. All they are doing are dragging down their rate stats and nothing more. :( I still remember Willie McCovey retiring halfway through the 1980 season. He knew it was his time and he didn't want to embarass himself.
I have no problem with players sticking around past the time they really should. If they are having fun and are even marginally productive, who are we to tell them they should hang it up?

[GiambiJuice]

Would you retire if you could still make millions of dollars a year for doing what you love to do?

[KCGHOST]

With only 20 games played it is still early yet. Let them go for a while yet.

[jpenrod]

Why are we asking this question? Yes Thomas' average is down, but he obviously still has some pop left in his bat. the Same could be said for piazza. I do not think either on needs to jump ship after 20 games, but I will say that at the end of the season they may need to consider if they want to come back next year. Basically they are both ending their careers, but I have not seen anything that makes me believe they are embarassing themselve in this very young season.

[digglahhh]

Perhaps they have concerns beyond their rate stats, perhaps they don't care if these twilight years will make it harder for us to argue them for whatever ranking we propose that then gets challenged by another poster.:rolleyes:

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Why are we asking this question? Yes Thomas' average is down, but he obviously still has some pop left in his bat. the Same could be said for piazza. I do not think either on needs to jump ship after 20 games, but I will say that at the end of the season they may need to consider if they want to come back next year. Basically they are both ending their careers, but I have not seen anything that makes me believe they are embarassing themselve in this very young season.
Fair enough. Let's see how they are doing in July. Thomas is hitting well below .200. A sub .200 hiter can only be so useful. What's the point of having Thomas in there if the A's have younger players that need playing time? Piazza may rebound though. We shall see.

[SoxSon]

Fair enough. Let's see how they are doing in Jluy. Thomas is hitting well below .200. A sub .200 hiter can only be so useful. What's the point of having Thomas in there if the A's have younger players that need playing time? Piazza may rebound though. We shall see.

Sub .200 average, but he's making them count. He's got 5 homers and 11 RBI. Not awful at all. He also had a 3-hit game yesterday.

[Nails]

As far as I can remember, Frank Thomas has always been a slow starter.

I think a better question is "Will Mike Piazza ever realize he should switch to DH?"

[Astro]

Its The First Month Of The Season!

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Sub .200 average, but he's making them count. He's got 5 homers and 11 RBI. Not awful at all. He also had a 3-hit game yesterday.
So he either hits a HR or he makes a bunch of outs. I don't see how he is helping the A's that much. But I hope he rebounds. :clapping

[BadKarma]

I have no problem with players sticking around past the time they really should. If they are having fun and are even marginally productive, who are we to tell them they should hang it up?

I gotta go with rockin on this one. It is very hard for somebody to quit the thing they love to do while still on top so to speak. Yes there will be decline, but don't think you think that players that have played as long as these guys, and that have put up the good seasons that they have are entitled to hang around and contribute, even if they aren't able to contribute as greatly as they did in their prime? Both of these guys obviously still have their hearts in the game and seem to be enjoying themselves as well as helping the teams out a little bit. You don't think that having Frank Thomas or Mike Piazza on your team brings in extra revenue from the fans? You don't think the younger guys in these organizations are learning important things from these two veterans? There are other factors to look at besides their base stats.

[BadKarma]

So he either hits a HR or he makes a bunch of outs. I don't see how he is helping the A's that much. But I hope he rebounds. :clapping


So you think he only helps the team if he is hitting a lot of HRs and RBIs? What about the leadership he displays, or the advice he is giving the younger players on the team?

[Astro]

If they are doing this badly in a few months, maybe they should retire... but right now they havent even played 15% of the season yet

Last season Jeter started out hitting around .200... should he have retired aswell?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

So you think he only helps the team if he is hitting a lot of HRs and RBIs? What about the leadership he displays, or the advice he is giving the younger players on the team?
I don't seem to remember Thomas being a great leader or clubhouse guy with the White Sox. In the past six years the A's have been very successful without Thomas. So what exactly does he bring in terms of leadership to the A's. It's not like he's Ty Cobb, Eddie Collins or Tris Speaker when Connie Mack brought them to the A's at the end of their careers.

The A's have plenty of other leaders already. Eric Chavez and Barry Zito come to mind.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

If they are doing this badly in a few months, maybe they should retire... but right now they havent even played 15% of the season yet

Last season Jeter started out hitting around .200... should he have retired as well?
False argument. Jeter wasn't 37 years old with a lot of injuries...

[SoxSon]

So he either hits a HR or he makes a bunch of outs. I don't see how he is helping the A's that much. But I hope he rebounds. :clapping

Think of the number of guys you might've just benched or retired with that criteria! :) :laugh

[BadKarma]

I don't seem to remember Thomas being a great leader or clubhouse guy with the White Sox. In the past six years the A's have been very successful without Thomas. So what exactly does he bring in terms of leadership to the A's. It's not like he's Ty Cobb, Eddie Collins or Tris Speaker when Connie Mack brought them to the A's at the end of their careers.

The A's have plenty of other leaders already. Eric Chavez and Barry Zito come to mind.


So, it is your position that Thomas has no value to the club in terms of helping out the younger guys? He has no knowledge to pass on about how to play the game, approach at bats, etc? When it comes to hitting, I would listen to Frank Thomas over Eric Chavez 7 days a week, but that's just me. I don't see Zito as a leader, maybe he has turned into one this year, I don't know, but he has never seemed like one to me. By the way, have the A's kept all of their players over the past 6 years? And how many World Series have they won in that time?

[tigers527]

If Rickey Henderson can still bounce around sub single A clubs and play. More power to Frank and Mike. Franks HR/H numbers are sick the past 2 years, sure he hits .200 but 3 out of 4 of those hits seems to be a homer. That can never hurt (no pun intended), at least as a pinch batter. As for Mike I am not a big national league guy, but hell if he wants to play let him.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

So, it is your position that Thomas has no value to the club in terms of helping out the younger guys? He has no knowledge to pass on about how to play the game, approach at bats, etc?
No, that is not my position. My position is that whatever "leadership" Thomas is supposedly giving does not make up for all the outs he is making with his sub .200 BA. Can you give us one example of a young player Thomas took under his wing and then that player developed and became a significantly better hitter?



When it comes to hitting, I would listen to Frank Thomas over Eric Chavez 7 days a week, but that's just me. I don't see Zito as a leader, maybe he has turned into one this year, I don't know, but he has never seemed like one to me.
Chavez and Zito are the longest tenured A's I believe. Zito has won a Cy Young and is the the veteran of the pitching staff. If the A's wanted Thomas to help their hitters then they could have hired him to be their hitting coach.



By the way, have the A's kept all of their players over the past 6 years? And how many World Series have they won in that time?

So, what's your point? They have kept some players. Even with the loss of good players the A's still have had success. As for World Series titles how many World Series titles have the Yankees won in the past six years? I guess, they been unsuccessful as well, huh.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Think of the number of guys you might've just benched or retired with that criteria! :) :laugh
The man is batting well below .200. I really don't get the support for Thomas. The argument I basically see is "So what if he is hitting well under .200, he's FRANK THOMAS!!!" OK? :o

[SoxSon]

The man is batting well below .200. I really don't get the support for Thomas. The argument I basically see is "So what if he is hitting well under .200, he's FRANK THOMAS!!!" OK? :o


It's only been around 20 games. That's why I can't take it all too seriously. :)

[BadKarma]

No, that is not my position. My position is that whatever "leadership" Thomas is supposedly giving does not make up for all the outs he is making with his sub .200 BA. Can you give us one example of a young player Thomas took under his wing and then that player developed and became a significantly better hitter?


Chavez and Zito are the longest tenured A's I believe. Zito has won a Cy Young and is the the veteran of the pitching staff. If the A's wanted Thomas to help their hitters then they could have hired him to be their hitting coach.



So, what's your point? They have kept some players. Even with the loss of good players the A's still have had success. As for World Series titles how many World Series titles have the Yankees won in the past six years? I guess, they been unsuccessful as well, huh.


1. Of course, I can't name a specific player he has taken under his wing and made better. That would require me to be in the clubhouse to notice that personally. Of course, you probably know that already, that's why you asked that question. I am just offering up that there are intangible reasons to have an aging superstar like Thomas on your team other then raw stats. Can you tell me without a doubt that he hasn't helped anybody on the team?

2. Winning a Cy Young award and just being a veteran doesn't equate to leadership.

3. My point was that maybe the A's decided that just making the playoffs wasn't enough for them anymore and that they are trying to actually win them. Maybe they believe that even if the raw stats from Thomas aren't there anymore, he brings some other intangibles to the team that will help them get to the next level. By the way, as an ex-New Yorker, I can unequivocally tell you that any year the Yankees don't win the world series is in fact an unsuccessful year for them. That's by their standards, not mine. Being a lifelong Mets fan, my standards for a successful season are a little lower ;)

[Honus Wagner Rules]

1. Of course, I can't name a specific player he has taken under his wing and made better. That would require me to be in the clubhouse to notice that personally. Of course, you probably know that already, that's why you asked that question. I am just offering up that there are intangible reasons to have an aging superstar like Thomas on your team other then raw stats. Can you tell me without a doubt that he hasn't helped anybody on the team?
That's silly. I can't prove that an event didn't happen. Since you claim that Thomas brings "leadership" the burden is on you to show evidence. You don't have to be in the club house to notice if a veteran is helping a young player. Don't veterens help younger players with how to play defense of hit on the field in plain view of observers? Even Barry Bonds has been witnessed to help young players on the field. Why was Thomas considered a "cancer" in Chicago?



2. Winning a Cy Young award and just being a veteran doesn't equate to leadership.
That was just one reason Zito is a "veteran" with the A's. Veteran just doesn't mean "old player. Zito has been with the A's longer than anyone else except for Chavez. How does Thomas' month with the A's compare with that?



3. My point was that maybe the A's decided that just making the playoffs wasn't enough for them anymore and that they are trying to actually win them. Maybe they believe that even if the raw stats from Thomas aren't there anymore, he brings some other intangibles to the team that will help them get to the next level. By the way, as an ex-New Yorker, I can unequivocally tell you that any year the Yankees don't win the world series is in fact an unsuccessful year for them. That's by their standards, not mine. Being a lifelong Mets fan, my standards for a successful season are a little lower ;)
The A's goal has always been more than just making the playoffs. I can't remember when Billy Beane ever said making the playoffs was satisfying enough. Their 2002 season was especially disappointing since they won 103 games and got upset by the Twins. Beane and the A's goal has always been to the win the World Series.

[rockin500]

That's silly. I can't prove that an event didn't happen. Since you claim that Thomas brings "leadership" the burden is on you to show evidence. You don't have to be in the club house to notice if a veteran is helping a young player. Don't veterens help younger players with how to play defense of hit on the field in plain view of observers? Even Barry Bonds has been witnessed to help young players on the field. Why was Thomas considered a "cancer" in Chicago?


That was just one reason Zito is a "veteran" with the A's. Veteran just doesn't mean "old player. Zito has been with the A's longer than anyone else except for Chavez. How does Thomas' month with the A's compare with that?


The A's goal has always been more than just making the playoffs. I can't remember when Billy Beane ever said making the playoffs was satisfying enough. Their 2002 season was especially disappointing since they won 103 games and got upset by the Twins. Beane and the A's goal has always been to the win the World Series.
why? because he wasnt friends with Kenny Williams or Konerko.

zito brings zero leadership to the everyday players. just like chavez brings zero leadership to the pitching staff.

[BadKarma]

The A's goal has always been more than just making the playoffs. I can't remember when Billy Beane ever said making the playoffs was satisfying enough. Their 2002 season was especially disappointing since they won 103 games and got upset by the Twins. Beane and the A's goal has always been to the win the World Series.


Exactly. You are saying the same thing as me, but in different words. Obviously, every team should be striving to win the Series every year, otherwise, what's the point in playing. My whole point is that maybe Thomas is bringing something to the table, or the A's management believes he is bringing something to the table to finally get them that coveted World Series Championship. I am sure that you are well aware that players can contribute more then raw stats to their team. I was simply stating that it could possibly be that Thomas is either providing some veteran leadership or helping the younger A's players in hitting aspects of the game. I am sorry I do not have concrete proof to back this belief of mine up. The best I can give you is my educated guess, based on my personal experience and my life long observance of the game.

I never "claimed", as you say, that he brought leadership. I offered it up as alternate reason on why he may be valuable to the team, other than in just hitting.

To answer your "How does Thomas's 6 months on the A's compare with Zito's time on the A's?" What does that have to do with anything? So because Zito has been on the team for 6 years, and Thomas only 6 months; Zito is more of a veteran leader? Here's one for you. How does Zito's 6 years of experience in the Majors compare with Thomas's 16 years? See, it's easy to ask a question like that. Not that the answer will prove anything one way or the other. You will spin it around to suit your point of view, and I will do likewise. Which is my whole point through all of this rambling: You start a poll, which by nature measures people's "opinions", then demand proof when an opinion is offered that you don't like.





*Disclaimer- This post is the sole opinion of BadKarma. Nothing in this post can be unequivocally backed up by fact. You read and take the information from this post as is, and with no guarantee from the author that it will fit into your point of view.

[jpenrod]

The man is batting well below .200. I really don't get the support for Thomas. The argument I basically see is "So what if he is hitting well under .200, he's FRANK THOMAS!!!" OK? :o

My argument is not that it is FRANK THOMAS my argument is that unless you are ready to bench Khalil Greene, Rafeal Furcal, Aramis Ramirez, Marcus Giles, Torii Hunter, Adrian Beltre, Mike Sweeney, and Jeff Kent all for hitting below .200 I think it is premature to say that Piazza and Thomas should RETIRE for hovering around .200 at this point in the season. I for one do not expect Thomas or Piazza to be the hitters they once were, and while it is sad to look up and see their averages down so low their power numbers would seem to indicate they are not washed up just yet. I believe that these veteran players have earned the right to be given the benefit of the doubt and allowed to play out the season without fans screaming for their retirement only one month into the season. I suspect that by the end of the Season you may see Thomas' average around .250 or .260 with 20 HR and maybe 80 RBI. I Think Piazza might be closer to .270 or .280 with 15 HR and 60-70 RBI. I do not think either of those would be the seasons we would hope for our heros but neither do I think those are seasons worthy of either of these HOFer to hang their heads at this point in their careers. Bottom line I just think it is much to early to say either of these guys should retire.

As I said before if they do continue to struggle then it is something they will have to decide and consider retirement, but that is a decision they should make and not one I feel justified in pushing on either of these players because of their starts to the season.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

My argument is not that it is FRANK THOMAS my argument is that unless you are ready to bench Khalil Greene, Rafeal Furcal, Aramis Ramirez, Marcus Giles, Torii Hunter, Adrian Beltre, Mike Sweeney, and Jeff Kent all for hitting below .200 I think it is premature to say that Piazza and Thomas should RETIRE for hovering around .200 at this point in the season. I for one do not expect Thomas or Piazza to be the hitters they once were, and while it is sad to look up and see their averages down so low their power numbers would seem to indicate they are not washed up just yet. I believe that these veteran players have earned the right to be given the benefit of the doubt and allowed to play out the season without fans screaming for their retirement only one month into the season. I suspect that by the end of the Season you may see Thomas' average around .250 or .260 with 20 HR and maybe 80 RBI. I Think Piazza might be closer to .270 or .280 with 15 HR and 60-70 RBI. I do not think either of those would be the seasons we would hope for our heros but neither do I think those are seasons worthy of either of these HOFer to hang their heads at this point in their careers. Bottom line I just think it is much to early to say either of these guys should retire.

As I said before if they do continue to struggle then it is something they will have to decide and consider retirement, but that is a decision they should make and not one I feel justified in pushing on either of these players because of their starts to the season.
Ok, what if Thomas ends up hitting .180 for the season? Then what? Should the A's bring him back? Thomas hit .219 last year and he's worse this year. This whole "they've earned the right to stay" is a silly argument. In what other profession does this apply? Do surgeons, pilots, drivers, etc., get to keep their jobs because they were once great in the past? An employee is paid to produce results. Who cares what Thomas did in 1994? The A's don't have the 1994 Thomas. At this point Thomas has turned into Rob Deer. :ughh

[jpenrod]

Ok, what if Thomas ends up hitting .180 for the season? Then what? Should the A's bring him back? Thomas hit .219 last year and he's worse this year. This whole "they've earned the right to stay" is a silly argument. In what other profession does this apply? Do surgeons, pilots, drivers, etc., get to keep their jobs because they were once great in the past? An employee is paid to produce results. Who cares what Thomas did in 1994? The A's don't have the 1994 Thomas. At this point Thomas has turned into Rob Deer. :ughh

First of all the question of whether or not the A's should bring Thomas back is vastly different than the question of whether he should retire. If thomas finishes the season batting .180 I would not expect the the A's to bring him back and I suspect he would seriously consider retiring. Of course batting .188 after 23 games is vastly different than batting .180 after 162 games in my opinion.

In regards to comparing Thomas to a surgeon or a pilot or a driver; he is a baseball player, his diminished skills do not result in someones life as a surgeon would. Also, contrary to what you may think it is not uncommon for older employees to be retained by a company despite their inability to perform their job simply because of what they have contributed to the company and the profession. They do this for a couple of reasons, one reason is they acknowledge that the contributions this employee has made far outways whatever they are paying them now. Second they recieve the benefit of having a recognizable name on the payroll evenif they do not continue to work. Thirdly because they realize that the knowledge that individual has is as valauable as the work younger employees are providing. I am not comparing these reasons to baseball because I do believe that the rules that govern baseball are slightly different than those rules that govern the real world.

Finally since you seem intent to cast aspersions, I would like to quote myself:

I believe that these veteran players have earned the right to be given the benefit of the doubt and allowed to play out the season without fans screaming for their retirement only one month into the season. Which is different than simply saying "they have earned the right to play", but since this seems to be the quote on which you base your comparison to pilots and surgeons, I would suspect that if you had a veteran surgeon make a mistake 20 minutes into a 2 1/2 hour procedure the hospital would be willing allow this surgeon to resolve the problem themselves as opposed to immediatly removing them and replacing them with a young inexperienced surgeon straight out of medical school. I could be wrong about that.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

First of all the question of whether or not the A's should bring Thomas back is vastly different than the question of whether he should retire. If thomas finishes the season batting .180 I would not expect the the A's to bring him back and I suspect he would seriously consider retiring. Of course batting .188 after 23 games is vastly different than batting .180 after 162 games in my opinion.
Ok we agree then.



In regards to comparing Thomas to a surgeon or a pilot or a driver; he is a baseball player, his diminished skills do not result in someones life as a surgeon would. Also, contrary to what you may think it is not uncommon for older employees to be retained by a company despite their inability to perform their job simply because of what they have contributed to the company and the profession. They do this for a couple of reasons, one reason is they acknowledge that the contributions this employee has made far outways whatever they are paying them now. Second they recieve the benefit of having a recognizable name on the payroll evenif they do not continue to work. Thirdly because they realize that the knowledge that individual has is as valauable as the work younger employees are providing. I am not comparing these reasons to baseball because I do believe that the rules that govern baseball are slightly different than those rules that govern the real world.
Yes, Thomas has valuable knowledge about hitting. So wouldn't he better be utilized as a hitting coach? He can concentrate on helping the A's hitters without costing them runs by batting .180.



Finally since you seem intent to cast aspersions, I would like to quote myself:
Which is different than simply saying "they have earned the right to play", but since this seems to be the quote on which you base your comparison to pilots and surgeons, I would suspect that if you had a veteran surgeon make a mistake 20 minutes into a 2 1/2 hour procedure the hospital would be willing allow this surgeon to resolve the problem themselves as opposed to immediatly removing them and replacing them with a young inexperienced surgeon straight out of medical school. I could be wrong about that.
When did I cast aspersions?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

jpenrod,

You'll like this. It's video of Frank Thomas giving Nick Swisher batting advice during a pregame batting practice. :D

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/motion/echo/index?id=2429081&category

[redbuck]

Is Frank Thomas the most underrated player in baseball history?

[Captain Cold Nose]

Is Frank Thomas the most underrated player in baseball history?
I'd say no. One need look no further than the guy he shares a birthday with, Jeff Bagwell, to find a more underrated player. And there are players more underrated (not underregarded or forgotten by history. Those are entirely different.) than either of them. Johnny Mize, for one.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I'd say no. One need look no further than the guy he shares a birthday with, Jeff Bagwell, to find a more underrated player. And there are players more underrated (not underregarded or forgotten by history. Those are entirely different.) than either of them. Johnny Mize, for one.
Any player that was once referred to as "The Right-Handed Ted Williams" by definition cannot be the most underrated player ever. ;)

[tigers527]

Is Frank Thomas the most underrated player in baseball history?

No one who spent as much time as Frank in Chicago can ever be called underrated. I know it was not for the darling Cubs, still when you have that much media attention in one place he can't help but get national love. Short of NY, playing in Chicago well (not even necessarily great) gets you to the hall, more easily than anyother location (perhaps a tie with the Dodgers).

Maybe you should ask instead, is Mike Sweeney underrated?

[Ubiquitous]

No one who spent as much time as Frank in Chicago can ever be called underrated. I know it was not for the darling Cubs, still when you have that much media attention in one place he can't help but get national love. Short of NY, playing in Chicago well (not even necessarily great) gets you to the hall, more easily than anyother location (perhaps a tie with the Dodgers).

Maybe you should ask instead, is Mike Sweeney underrated?

I doubt that is true. Ron Santo is on the outside looking in. Andre Dawson is standing in line. Ryne Sandberg had to sweat it out.

I don't see the players who got in because they played for the Cubs/Sox instead of merit.

[tigers527]

I doubt that is true. Ron Santo is on the outside looking in. Andre Dawson is standing in line. Ryne Sandberg had to sweat it out.

I don't see the players who got in because they played for the Cubs/Sox instead of merit.

The Santo one is easy...just look at Trammell and Whitakers #'s and compare. If Trammell & Whitaker can each get so little love and they both had better #'s then Santo. With Sandbergs induction, and Whitaker spending the same amount of time as Gregg Jefferies on the ballot???? It just makes you go hmmmm.

As to Dawson, you don't know the rules do you? While it is true Dawson did have some of his best years with the Cubs, and got love for it from the national media (MVP on last place team???? value??? last???? if he was gone would they have been that much worse then last? What is worse then last?)

Anyway to the rules.... for every year a player has a productive year he gets some points (lets call them BBWLP: baseball writers love points) so over their career if said player gets enough love from the BBW, HOF here they come. This formula holds true with this following exception.

Every year said player spends in the following cities:
1. New York (as a Yankee only) 2. Chicago (either team) 3. Dodgers (both locations)
they get +1 BBWLP
Every year said player spends in this city
1. Montreal
they get -2 BBWLP
Rest of cities EVEN.

Now do you see why Dawson didn't get his love. :D

[jpenrod]

Thought I would dig this thread back up since we have hit the halfway point.

Piazza is now hitting .290 with 12 HR and 37 RBI. I think he has effectively answered the question that he can still play.

Thomas is at .238 with 19 HR and 46 RBI. Obviously his average is down, but he still has the power which is odd because power normally goes first. Upon a closer look since May 25 Thomas is hitting close to .300 so he may have broken out of whatever funk he was in and his average may continue to climb. All-in-all I think he still has enough in him that we will see him at least start next season on a ML roster, but it may be as a bench player.

[Outta Here]

I still think this will be Big Hurt's last year.

Piazza will have 1 more. Myabe he can grow his amazing moustache back again! :p

[redban]

Piazza's doing awesome right now for a 37 yr old catcher.

About them retiring.I don't think so.

Frank Thomas has what...19 home runs now.Not too bad.

The days of a .362 batting average,40 home runs,and 120 RBI are long gone...but these guys still have some gas in the tank.And Mike Piazza has never won a world series before...so that might be one of his motivations to keep going.

Funny tho...When Barry Bonds was the same age as these guys..he was hitting 73 homers.A career high.Hmmmmmmmm....

But if anything,Greg Maddux is one who needs to retire now.Not Piazza or Thomas.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I am so glad that I was 100% wrong about Piazza and Thomas. They both rebounded to have pretty good years. I have a soft spot for the both of them since they were both born the same year I was. :D

[JimAbbott]

Boy was this poll ever proven to be follish

[Williamsburg2599]

They should retire when they don't want to play anymore, it's that simple. I don't see it as "ruining their career."

[Ubiquitous]

Piazza after his hot July has become putrid. .203/.268/.344 for the whole month of august, and so far September is looking the same. Piazza is not an everyday player and even this year where they have limited his time behind the plate he is still wearing down. It might make a good DH for someone since to me when he is healthy he still has the swing.

Frank Thomas' problem was always whether or not he was going to stay healthy. This year his biggest problem was the strained quadricep and besides that a few nicks and bruises. I don't think it was ever a question whether or not he could hit but whether or not he could be healthy enough to be able to do it.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Piazza after his hot July has become putrid. .203/.268/.344 for the whole month of august, and so far September is looking the same. Piazza is not an everyday player and even this year where they have limited his time behind the plate he is still wearing down. It might make a good DH for someone since to me when he is healthy he still has the swing.

Frank Thomas' problem was always whether or not he was going to stay healthy. This year his biggest problem was the strained quadricep and besides that a few nicks and bruises. I don't think it was ever a question whether or not he could hit but whether or not he could be healthy enough to be able to do it.
Since the All-Star break, Thomas is hitting .316/.416/.568. That mid 1990s in-his-prime Frank Thomas!

[hudsonharden]

I highly doubt Frank Thomas or Mike Piazza visit Baseball Fever very much, but if they do it looks like someone with a fire under their a**es!

[jpenrod]

I suspect that by the end of the Season you may see Thomas' average around .250 or .260 with 20 HR and maybe 80 RBI. I Think Piazza might be closer to .270 or .280 with 15 HR and 60-70 RBI.

Man I was pretty close on Piazza but a little low on Thomas. Glad to see they both had respectable seasons.

[agent-g]

I hate when I read posts like this, vote and then realize the post was from 5 months ago, lol.:grouchy