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View Full Version : Higher BA than OBP?

Hoffy
04-22-2006, 04:01 PM
Alex Rios is doing it now:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=5880

He's batting .400, with an OBP of only .388. Has anyone done this for an entire season?
tigers527
04-22-2006, 04:14 PM
Alex Rios is doing it now:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=5880

He's batting .400, with an OBP of only .388. Has anyone done this for an entire season?

How do you even do that? Hit a single try to strech it to a double and get thrown out? I would think that would raise your avg. but not raise your OBP?
Go Bravos!!!#1
04-22-2006, 04:16 PM
Maybe because he only has 1 walk this season.
SoxSon
04-22-2006, 06:36 PM
Maybe because he only has 1 walk this season.


Not sure you're understanding OBP.
KingJ
04-22-2006, 07:10 PM
That's very simple. Bunts and sac. flies don't count as ABs, but don't add to your OBP. He probably has a few bunts and sac. flies but doesn't have enough walks to cancel it out.
Dasperp
04-22-2006, 07:11 PM
Sacrafice hits don't count as an AB, and therefore don't lower batting average, but they do count as a PA, so they lower your OBP.
Go Bravos!!!#1
04-22-2006, 07:29 PM
Not sure you're understanding OBP.

Why is that? OBP is the number of hits + Bases on Balls + Hit By Pitches divided by the number of Bases on Balls + AB's + Hit By Pitches + Sacrifices.

Therefore the higher the walk total the higher the OBP. So if the player hits well, but lacks BB and HBP and scrifices greatly, the BA. would be higher than OBP.
SoxSon
04-22-2006, 07:38 PM
Why is that? OBP is the number of hits + Bases on Balls + Hit By Pitches divided by the number of Bases on Balls + AB's + Hit By Pitches + Sacrifices.

Therefore the higher the walk total the higher the OBP. So if the player hits well, but lacks BB and HBP and scrifices greatly, the BA. would be higher than OBP.

That's a far cry from:

Maybe because he only has 1 walk this season.

That line by itself connotes a misunderstanding of what you just explained in several lines. In other words, nice clarification. :)
Go Bravos!!!#1
04-22-2006, 07:41 PM
Thank You SoxSon :waving Now we're all on the same page :)
SoxSon
04-22-2006, 07:42 PM
Thank You SoxSon :waving Now we're all on the same page :)


Well...not on those triple headers! ;)
Go Bravos!!!#1
04-22-2006, 08:05 PM
Well...not on those triple headers! ;)

:laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh
Mattingly
04-22-2006, 08:48 PM
From mlb.com: Baseball Basics: Abbreviations (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/baseball_basics/abbreviations.jsp)
On Base Percentage (OBP)
Divide the total number of hits, bases on balls and times hit by pitch by the total of at-bats, bases on balls, times hit by pitch and sacrifice flies. For example, if Shawn Green has 619 at-bats, 184 hits, 72 bases on balls, 5 times hit by pitch and 5 sacrifice flies, his on-base percentage is .372 ((184+72+5)/(619+72+5+5)).
espn.com has Alex Rios (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=5880)' OBP listed as lower than his BA. I'd thought that this was impossible, since any HBP, BB/IBB would only raise his OBP, and nothing could lower it.

I don't know how many HBPs or Sac Flies he has, so I can't fully calculate this.
KCGHOST
04-22-2006, 11:21 PM
If you have more sac flies than walks and HBP's you will end up with a lower OBP than BA.
tigers527
04-23-2006, 07:23 AM
Trying to strech a single to a double and getting gunned down doesnt lower your OBP while raising your AVG?

To me it makes sense, you hit a single but were really never on base for a time. So if it doesnt coutn against your OBP I think it should (time for another stat). OBPMABR (on base % minus agressive base runninig? LOL)

For that matter, I think if a player gets picked off that should go against their OBP, if it is during the very next batter after they reached base. Ok thats kind of streaching it.

But really where are the stats to quantify knuckleheaded baserunning? You could even have KHBR CD (KnuckleHeadedBaseRunning CoachesDecision). For the times when the 3rd base coach messes up.
Mattingly
04-23-2006, 07:35 AM
If you have more sac flies than walks and HBP's you will end up with a lower OBP than BA.
That's an interesting concept. Does anyone know where we can find out how many sac flies and HBPs that Alex Rios currently has? That way, we can all crunch the numbers.

Thanks.
Trying to strech a single to a double and getting gunned down doesnt lower your OBP while raising your AVG?

To me it makes sense, you hit a single but were really never on base for a time. So if it doesnt coutn against your OBP I think it should (time for another stat). OBPMABR (on base % minus agressive base runninig? LOL)

For that matter, I think if a player gets picked off that should go against their OBP, if it is during the very next batter after they reached base. Ok thats kind of streaching it.

But really where are the stats to quantify knuckleheaded baserunning? You could even have KHBR CD (KnuckleHeadedBaseRunning CoachesDecision). For the times when the 3rd base coach messes up.
Invents the KHBBFP (Knuckleheaded BBF Poster) stat. You ain't battin' 1.000 in that department, son! :D :p
Baseball Guru
04-23-2006, 08:13 AM
That's an interesting concept. Does anyone know where we can find out how many sac flies and HBPs that Alex Rios currently has? That way, we can all crunch the numbers.



Rios as of yesterday has 3 Sacrifice Flies:)

http://snap.stats.com/premium/sfa/stats/getleaders.asp?rank=030&Submit=Go
Mattingly
04-23-2006, 08:32 AM
Rios as of yesterday has 3 Sacrifice Flies:)

http://snap.stats.com/premium/sfa/stats/getleaders.asp?rank=030&Submit=Go
When I'd clicked on his player name, I didn't find anything for Sac Flies ("SF"?), nor any 2006 stat with "3" in it.

http://snap.stats.com/premium/sfa/stats/playerstats.asp?id=7254&fn=Alex&ln=Rios

If you can locate also his HBP, then I can crunch the stats.

Thanks.
tigers527
04-23-2006, 09:57 AM
Invents the KHBBFP (Knuckleheaded BBF Poster) stat. You ain't battin' 1.000 in that department, son! :D :p

ME<-----not sure how to take that? If I keep trying could I bat 1.000 would someone want too? hmmmmm thats a head scratcher there.
Mattingly
04-23-2006, 12:25 PM
ME<-----not sure how to take that? If I keep trying could I bat 1.000 would someone want too? hmmmmm thats a head scratcher there.
Every now and then, I get a little silly, so that was my silly post of the day.

Now if I weren't so silly, I'd have noticed that Alex Rios' 3 SFs were linked where Baseball Guru gave me this, but wasn't on his player page within that link.

Oh boy. :o :(
KingJ
04-23-2006, 12:53 PM
Mattingly:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=5880

SF, SH, and HBP are all under Misc. Batting.
Mattingly
04-23-2006, 01:55 PM
Mattingly:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=5880

SF, SH, and HBP are all under Misc. Batting.
Thanks. 3 SF, 0 HBP. That gives me all the info I need! :D
Baseball Guru
04-23-2006, 02:40 PM
My bad on that link.. I sent the wrong one.. It was another that showed he had 3 SF (which tied for the lead in the AL)
west coast orange and black
04-23-2006, 09:17 PM
kingj: it was good to toss in that sac bunts/hits count towards the percentages as do the sac flies.
there was a preponderance of sac fly mentionings, but not sac hits.
Brooklyn
04-24-2006, 06:58 AM
He's batting .400, with an OBP of only .388. Has anyone done this for an entire season?

Depends on what you mean by an entire season. No one has ever done it with a significant amount of at bats. the most at bats I can find that a person accompllished this over a single season is Ernie Bowman in 1963 over 125 at bats.

More recently some pitchers have done it. Valenzuela in 1986, Catfish Hunter in 1972, Carlton in 1974, Cuellar in 1969 and Tony Cloninger in 1965 all did it with over 100 ABs.

If you extendt he list to include players with less than 100 AB's, the list gets much longer.

As a side note, Sun-Woo Kim currently has a career OBP lower than his career BA, but he only has 59 career ABs to date. He has one career SF and has never walked.