Any WS records by non-HOF players?

[Appling]

I happened to look at "All-time World Series Leaders", expecting most records to be by Hall of Fame stars, but perhaps some by a player passed over by the HOF. Here is what I found:

Most WS games: Yogi Berra 75, Mickey Mantle 65, Elston Howard 54.
Most AB: Berra 259, Mantle 230, Joe DiMaggio 199.
Hits: Berra 71, Mantle 59, Frankie Frisch 58.
Runs: Mantle 42, Berra 41, Babe Ruth 37.
Home Runs: Mantle 18, Ruth 15, Berra 12.
RBI: Mantle 40, Berra 39, Lou Gehrig 35.

Except for Elston Howard, these are all HOF'ers (and all but FF were NY Yankees).

So I wonder:
What is the most important WS record held by a player not voted to the Hall of Fame?

[KCGHOST]

Most Career Losses (4) - Charlie Liebrandt, Don Newcombe, Bill Sherdel, Ed Summers

Their are a number of single game records that are held by "one-game" wonders.

[RuthMayBond]

Bonds' .700 OBP or 1.994 OPS :D

[Captain Cold Nose]

I'm going to regard Mariano Rivera as a HOF player since his election is a foregone conclusion six years after he retires. I don't see any meaningful positive career records. One might look at Billy Hatcher's .750 ba in 1990 (four games) or Bobby Richardson's RBI totals in 1960. Some good, non-HOF pitchers also won 3 in a single series (Burdette, Lolich, Breechen, etc.) I'm not sure if that would count with Matthewson and Johnson (see Rivera) being on that list.

[RuthMayBond]

Some good, non-HOF pitchers also won 3 in a single series (Burdette, Lolich, Breechen, etc.)Do the 1887 & 1888 "World Series" wins in a single series count?

[Captain Cold Nose]

Do the 1887 & 1888 "World Series" wins in a single series count?
If Luke accepts pre NL-AL World Series results in regards to his question, sure, why not?

[Brad Harris]

What is the most important WS record held by a player not voted to the Hall of Fame?

I would say whomever has the most world series rings? (Billy Martin? Roger Maris? Frank Crosetti? Charlie Root? Marty Marion?)

World Series "records" don't leave nearly the impression that a Hall of Fame career does. Not on me, anyway.

[The Dude]

Most hits in a game: 5 by Paul Molitor (HoFer, but not a yankee)

[Appling]

Do the 1887 & 1888 "World Series" wins in a single series count?
I thought the first "World Series" was NL vs AL, 1903 -- but if anything before then was considered a World Series -- or World Championship -- sure, why not?

I tend to ignore the 19th century myself, but that doesn't mean everyone has to.

My thinking was mainly on "career WS totals" -- as all my examples happen to be. Yes, I know there are one-game or one-series stars that would never be voted to the HOF (like Don Larsen 1956).

For example: my reference shows the highest World Series Batting Average for a career (50 or more AB) is a tie between Pepper Martin and Paul Molitor. Both had 23 hits in 55 WS at-bats, for a .418 career average. Is there any way that Pepper Martin could be considered a viable HOF candidate?

[Cougar]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/martipe01.shtml

Not really. 1227 hits isn't going to get anyone into the Hall.

Martin was clearly an All-Star caliber performer for a very good team, and in his prime he was the premier basestealer in the NL. His career BA of .298 is very good.

But he had all of three seasons with 500 plate appearances. Utterly no career length.

[RuthMayBond]

Is there any way that Pepper Martin could be considered a viable HOF candidate?If ElHalo was in charge of the Veterans Committee :eek:

[ElHalo]

If ElHalo was in charge of the Veterans Committee :eek:

You better believe it.

[ElHalo]

Is there any way that Pepper Martin could be considered a viable HOF candidate?

Pepper Martin, as I'm sure you're aware, is far and away my favorite player of all time. I don't think you'll find a bigger Pepper Martin advocate anywhere on the planet.

Being a lawyer, there's a legal concept that springs to mind which perfectly encapsulates Martin's Hall of Fame case. When somebody files a lawsuit against you that you feel has no merit, you can file what's known as a motion to dismiss for failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted.

The standard for a motion to dismiss is that, accepting everything as true, looking at everything in the light most favorable to to plaintiff, accepting every conceivable inference which could possibly help the plaintiff's case, and looking outside the complaint to any potential claims which might be supported by the facts alleged, the plaintiff still must lose.

I think that Pepper's Hall case would lose on a motion to dismiss.

[Appling]

Bonds' .700 OBP or 1.994 OPS :D
Interesting that Bonds had such a great World Series in 2002 but over his career he was not very good in all other post-season play. :crazy

[wamby]

I would guess that it was a non-HOFer who collected the most WS checks, as an active player, without ever appearing in the WS was Arndt Jorgens. He colleceted checks in 1932, 1936, 1937, 1938 and 1939. I would also guess that he received a full share in each of those years.

I think the guy received the most WS checks while appearing in uniform has to be Frank Crosetti during his long tenure as Yankees infielder and coach. I believe he would have collected 22 WS checks.

[justice22]

Well you've got david justice, who is derfinately not going to the HOF. I don't know if he holds any records, but he got their a hell of a lot of times!

[cjedmonton]

These aren't "records", per se, but here are a few notable feats held by non-HOFers:

1. Harry Brecheen is the first pitcher in major league history to win both Games 6 and 7 of the World Series (1946). That record remained uncontested for 55 years until fellow lefty Randy Johnson won Games 6 and 7 of the 2001 World Series.

2. On October 8th 1967, Ken Brett became the youngest pitcher ever to pitch in the World Series, doing so in Game 4 against the St. Louis Cardinals. He was 19 years, 20 days old. Coincidentally, he and fellow lefty Don Gullett are the only teenagers ever to pitch in World Series competition (Gullett was 19 years, 9 months, and 5 days old when he appeared in Game 2 of the 1970 World Series).

3. Darold Knowles is the only pitcher in major league history to appear in all 7 games of a World Series, doing so with the New York Mets in 1973.

4. Dave McNally is the only pitcher in World Series history to hit a grand slam (October 13th, 1970).

5. Mickey Lolich of the 1968 Detroit Tigers was the last pitcher to start and win 3 games in a single World Series (Randy Johnson of the 2001 Arizona Diamondbacks also won three games, but only started two of them).

6. Dan Plesac holds the major league record for having pitched the most games without ever having played in the World Series (1,064).

[Brad Harris]

CJ...

Happen to know any by right-handed pitchers? :laugh

BTW...love the "new" site design! (Hadn't stopped by in a while.)

[cjedmonton]

CJ...

Happen to know any by right-handed pitchers? :laugh

Not a one;-)

Oh, thanks for stopping by! I think the new design is a pretty cool touch. I just don't want to admit how many hours it took to find decent photos of all those guys (165 and counting!).

Chris

[Brad Harris]

I just don't want to admit how many hours it took to find decent photos of all those guys (165 and counting!).

:laugh :laugh :laugh

[flash143817]

I would say whomever has the most world series rings?

Isn't that Yogi Berra with 10? If you are limiting it to wins as a player I doubt anyone else has more. And of course he is a HOFer.

[Chisox]

For example: my reference shows the highest World Series Batting Average for a career (50 or more AB) is a tie between Pepper Martin and Paul Molitor. Both had 23 hits in 55 WS at-bats, for a .418 career average. Is there any way that Pepper Martin could be considered a viable HOF candidate?
Funny, I've just been making printable sorted lists of World Series stats. That's the way Sean Lahman's DB sees it; Martin and Molitor at the top.
Anyway, unless my DB went goofy on me, here's some career records by some non HOFers.

World Series
Pitching: minimum 50 IP to qualify.
ERA: Jack Billingham--.36
Hits/9: Monte Pearson--4.79
K/9: Orlando Hernandez--11.06
BB/9: Schoolboy Rowe--.39
WHIP: Monte Pearson--.73

Overall Postseason
Pitching
John Smoltz, a debatable HOF'er has pitched the most innings at 199.2 and Strikeouts (171), and also has won the most (14)
Andy Pettite has given up the most Earned Runs (84) and Hits (195)

Per Inning (100 IP to qualify)
Deacon Phillipee has .72 BB/9

Overall postseason offense:
Bernie Williams, a questionable candidate, has the record for most games (120), PA (535), bases (303), doubles (29), extra bases (95), extra base hits (51), home runs (22), times on base (200), outs (342), bases from the plate (295), runs (83), RBIs (80), runs produced (141), and total bases (223)

percentages (100PA)
Edgardo Alfonzo has a 10.3 DO%
Arlie Latham scored 19.1 % of the times he was on base
David Eckstein singled in 28.3% of his ABs
Larry Bowa struck-out in only 4.2% of his ABs
Tim McCarver tripled in 3.4% of his ABs

World Series
totals
Billy Johnson and Tommy Leach (HOF?) are tied with Tris Speaker with 4 triples

% (minimum 50PA)
Pete Fox doubled in 16.4% of his ABs
Marquis Grissom singled in 32.5& of his ABs
Pepper Martin got out in only 47.8% of his chances to go with his .418 BA.
Lenny Dykstra homered 12% of his ABs
Tommy Leach (? again) tripled 6.9% of his ABs
Jo-Jo White walked 23.6% of his PAs.

I forgot what the question was, literally.
Post-season overall, or just World Series.
O.K. Just checked. You can ignore the overall stuff. :p

[Chisox]

Well you've got david justice, who is derfinately not going to the HOF. I don't know if he holds any records, but he got their a hell of a lot of times!
He didn't hold any World Series records, at least none that I'm aware of.
He did hold a few post-season records which have been passed up by that CF for New York the last decade and a half.

[1905 Giants]

Some World Series Records by non-HOFers I found are:
Career:
Triples by Billy Johnson: 4
ERA by Jack Billingham: 0.36
Win-Pct. by Jack Coombs and Monte Pearson: 1.000
WHIP by Jim Lonborg: .667
Hits allowed per 9/innings by Monte Pearson: 4.79
Strikeouts per 9 innings by Orlando Hernandez: 11.30
Base on Balls per 9 innings by Schoolboy Rowe: .39

Single-Series:
Batting Average by Billy Hatcher: .750
On Base percentage by Billy Hatcher: .800
Hits by Marty Barret and Bobby Richardson: 13
WHIP by Don Larsen: .469
hits allowed per 9 innings by Don Larsen: .84
Games by Darold knowles: 7 (Pitching)
Saves by John Wetteland: 4
Innings by Dweacon Phillippe: 44
Walks allowed by Jack Coombs: 14
Hits Allowed by Deacon Phillippe: 38
Losses by George Frazier and Lefty Williams: 3

[Erik Bedard]

Some World Series Records by non-HOFers I found are:
Losses by George Frazier and Lefty Williams: 3

Not if you count pre-1900 Series. Then it goes to Bob Caruthers with 4.

I think that Phillippe deserves the "best performance in a WS by an non-HOFer due to his performance in the 1903 WS. His arm must have been about to fall off!

[Appling]

Some World Series Records by non-HOFers I found are:
Career:
ERA by Jack Billingham: 0.36
Win-Pct. by Jack Coombs and Monte Pearson: 1.000
WHIP by Jim Lonborg: .667
Hits allowed per 9/innings by Monte Pearson: 4.79
Strikeouts per 9 innings by Orlando Hernandez: 11.30
Base on Balls per 9 innings by Schoolboy Rowe: .39

To hold a "career total" record for some World Series pitching RATIO stat, shouldn't there be some minimum number of innings pitched needed to qualify?

I suggest minimum of 50 IP for a World Series pitching record.