Top Baseball Markets Without A Team

[Astro]

Lots of talk has been going around saying Portland would be an ideal city for the Marlins, or an expansion team... Why is this? The same has been said for Las Vegas, but when you look at the numbers the top markets are:

Sacramento (450k population)
Memphis
Louisville (555k)
Oklahoma City (530k)
Indianapolis (785k)

Many more cities rank above Portland and Las Vegas in both population and minor league attendance... so why should a team move there? Especially if their minor league team can only attract 6000 people a game or less.

http://www.ballparkwatch.com/news/2005/sept/2005_total_attendance.html

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763098.html

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:3huJZ3u2rOEJ:www.minorleaguebasebal l.com/clubs/t484/downloads/05_bie_appendix.pdf+minor+league+average+attendanc e+portland+louisville+numbers&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2

[Chelle]

I've been to a Memphis Redbirds game. They didn't get a very big crowd. Being from Baltimore it's going to be obvious why I say this but....I'm VERY against the concept of teams moving. I know it's a business...and they are in the business to make money.....

(ignore childish pout coming up here)

It's not fair!

(end of childish pout)

But, I disagree with the entire concept. More should be done to make the team viable in the original city prior to the "give up and move concept" ...and I'm speaking to the Irsay family particularly.

[Williamsburg2599]

I would say not sacramento because the last thing I want is another calafornian team. I would like a team is Louisville, Canada(maybe Vancover?) or maybe Upstate New York.

[Mike D.]

How about putting a third team back in New York City?

I believe they did a study a few years back that came to the conclusion that the market that could most support a team was New York.

It'd be interesting to see how the fans of New York reacted, and if it hurt the teams like the Yankees and Mets (or at least knock them down a few pegs, financially).

Of course, the Mets and Yankees ownership groups would never let it happen, but it'd be interesting.

[Gamingboy]

I've always said they should put a team in Monterey, Mexico. Monterey is one of the more modern cities in Mexico, and is the largest city where Baseball is King.


(Why not Mexico City? Well, for one thing, the city is dominated by soccer. Secondly, the elevation there would make Coors Field look like a pitcher's park).

[Williamsburg2599]

(Why not Mexico City? Well, for one thing, the city is dominated by soccer. Secondly, the elevation there would make Coors Field look like a pitcher's park).
Yea, but the pollution might slow the ball down:D :crazy just kidding.

[ESPNFan]

How about putting a third team back in New York City?

I believe they did a study a few years back that came to the conclusion that the market that could most support a team was New York.

It'd be interesting to see how the fans of New York reacted, and if it hurt the teams like the Yankees and Mets (or at least knock them down a few pegs, financially).

Of course, the Mets and Yankees ownership groups would never let it happen, but it'd be interesting.

Or how bout a New Jersey team? It would basicly be almost a defacto New York team but it could work.

[Go Bravos!!!#1]

My immediate thought was Tampa and Kansas City when I saw the title of this thread.:D

I'd have to go with Las Vegas. Though there is no way they'd put an MLB team there for obvious reasons.

[Astro]

My immediate thought was Tampa and Kansas City when I saw the title of this thread.:D

I'd have to go with Las Vegas. Though there is no way they'd put an MLB team there for obvious reasons.
Tampa is becoming better, they could have a winning record this season...

As for Denver...

[Chelle]

I'd really like to see Las Vegas with a team...the minor league team (I've heard) gets an ok crowd.

I would hate to see NY get another team (sorry NYers!) when so many other cities don't even have one.

[Astro]

I'd really like to see Las Vegas with a team...the minor league team (I've heard) gets an ok crowd.

I would hate to see NY get another team (sorry NYers!) when so many other cities don't even have one.
The average attendance link is listed at the bottom of my first post... they averaged under 5000, the top 5 (Sacramento, Memphis, Round Rock, Pawtucket, Louisville) all averaged over 9000

Here is the link again: http://www.ballparkwatch.com/news/2005/sept/2005_total_attendance.html

[Spute]

I don't know.. do the Royals qualify as a team? :(

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Lots of talk has been going around saying Portland would be an ideal city for the Marlins, or an expansion team... Why is this? The same has been said for Las Vegas, but when you look at the numbers the top markets are:

Sacramento (450k population)
Memphis
Louisville (555k)
Oklahoma City (530k)
Indianapolis (785k)

Many more cities rank above Portland and Las Vegas in both population and minor league attendance... so why should a team move there? Especially if their minor league team can only attract 6000 people a game or less.

http://www.ballparkwatch.com/news/2005/sept/2005_total_attendance.html

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763098.html

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:3huJZ3u2rOEJ:www.minorleaguebasebal l.com/clubs/t484/downloads/05_bie_appendix.pdf+minor+league+average+attendanc e+portland+louisville+numbers&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2

If they build it, we will come. No question about that. This town is aching for MLB, but the powers that be are wearing their own buttcheeks for earmuffs.

[Augustin_"Gus"]

Obviously, the best baseball market that doesen't have a team, is that city where Jackie Robinson got his first chance in "white" pro baseball, 60 years ago almost to the day. The city that hosted the first major league game outside of the US in 69. The city that filled up a 50 000 seats stadium on numerous occasions in the 70's and 80's. A city that saw a myriad of stars begin their major league careers, from Hall-of-Famer Gary Carter to Vladimir Guerrero. But a city wich, unfortunately for baseball fans, had a grand total of 1 competent owner in it's history, is not very good at creating wealth, and has other fiscal priorities than many cities and states in the US (i.e. no publicly financed new ballpark). Can you identify it? I scrambled the letters to the answer so no one can cheat.

Answer: M-o-n-t-r-é-l-a

Of course, not a candidate for the move of the Marlins. But if MLB is really serious about doing business (and sometimes, I wonder if they are) they would make sure things work in the Oakland's and the Kansas City's of this world, then put teams in places like Montréal and Monterrey Mexico (and make sure it works, obviously) before thinking about expanding to Sacramento and Pawtucket. And believe me, I'm not bashing those cities. Just saying it would make no sense to go there, before the previous conditions are met.

[wilkerson_rulz-06]

Obviously, the best baseball market that doesen't have a team, is that city where Jackie Robinson got his first chance in "white" pro baseball, 60 years ago almost to the day. The city that hosted the first major league game outside of the US in 69. The city that filled up a 50 000 seats stadium on numerous occasions in the 70's and 80's. A city that saw a myriad of stars begin their major league careers, from Hall-of-Famer Gary Carter to Vladimir Guerrero. But a city wich, unfortunately for baseball fans, had a grand total of 1 competent owner in it's history, is not very good at creating wealth, and has other fiscal priorities than many cities and states in the US (i.e. no publicly financed new ballpark). Can you identify it? I scrambled the letters to the answer so no one can cheat.

Answer: M-o-n-t-r-é-l-a

Of course, not a candidate for the move of the Marlins. But if MLB is really serious about doing business (and sometimes, I wonder if they are) they would make sure things work in the Oakland's and the Kansas City's of this world, then put teams in places like Montréal and Monterrey Mexico (and make sure it works, obviously) before thinking about expanding to Sacramento and Pawtucket. And believe me, I'm not bashing those cities. Just saying it would make no sense to go there, before the previous conditions are met.

I agree, I wouldn't like them to move here either.

The worst place to have a team:
L-O-R-I-A'-S P-O-C-K-E-T
(FULL OF MONEY):grouchy

[Erik Bedard]

I'll stand by what I said in another thread:

Billings, Montana.

[geezer]

I'll stand by what I said in another thread:

Billings, Montana.


I only have 2 choices, Louisville and Las Vegas.

[Knick9]

I've now heard 5 people say Las Vegas. Further negotiations between the Marlins and Vegas have been personally blocked by the commish. It is too hot Vegas, so you'd have to pony up in cash for air conditioning. There is a lack of water supply there. The current attendance to LV 51's games are crap compared to 5 other Triple A teams. There would be huge issues with getting rid of the betting books for baseball, and I doubt the casinos would want to lose part of their business in order to let another business rise. Plus, don't forget about the potential TV territorial fiasco between 5 current MLB teams (LA, ARI, LAA, SD, OAK)

...far too many issues to deal with if you put your chips on Vegas.

[Biggtone23]

The Marlins need to be sold to an owner who will actually try to win in Miami, which is way to big of a market not to have a team. Loria is just bud's hatchet man once he finishes with the Marlins He will probably try to buy the Royals. Back to my orginal point, the Marlins need a new owner and stadium in Miami, move the A's to Sacremento, expansion teams in San Antonio and Portland. Realignment to 4 divisions of 4 teams each.

AL East
New York
Boston
Baltimore
Toronto

AL South
Tampa Bay
San Antonio
Texas
Kansas City

AL Central
Cleveland
Detroit
Chicago
Minnesota

AL West
Seattle
Sacremento
Los Angeles
Portland

NL East
New York
Philadelphia
Washington
Pittsburgh

NL South
Florida
Atlanta
Houston
Arizona

NL Central
St. Louis
Chicago
Cincinnati
Milwaukee

NL West
Los Angeles
Colorado
San Diego
San Francisco

Put Minor league expansion teams in Montreal and Albany for AAA, move Dayton to AA, and a small midwestern city that I dont know of to replace Dayton in the MWL.

[Go Bravos!!!#1]

As for Denver...


I dunno, Colorado is 2nd at 7-5,....though I doubt it shall last long.

[Gagne#3 8]

LA would be more likely to get a 3rd team in the future than New York

[Mariano_Rivera]

Only slightly related but I want to point something out if they move to San Antonio. Look at their name the San Antonio Marlins? They would have to change their name.

[Zito75]

New Orleans could work out- that is if they can clean the place up. But I agree with earlier poster as well, Vancouver BC might alright. The Mariners used to play some exhibition games there and they packed the place. A new stadium would be needed, however.

[Knick9]

I should point out that there is another thread about this. (although not recent)

The Mariners did the same thing in Portland, 2 exhibition games were both sold out playing against the Padres in one and the Triple A Beavers in the other. Vancouver would be a nice place to play in, though. The last I heard about 'couver was that they had a AAA team until 1999. Is the stadium still up? I'm not sure if the M's will like it, though. Yeah, the M's don't like talk about it in Portland either but too bad. I believe there should be one more team in the Pacific NW anyway. Seattle can take Hawaii, Alaska and British Columbia or wherever else for TV broadcasting rights.

[jfrost]

In terms of metro population, Portland is the largest market without a team at 2.1 million (Census) (http://www.census.gov/population/www/estimates/Estimates%20pages_final.html). Next is Sacramento (2 mil), which is too close to the Bay Area to be a viable market. Number three is Orlando (1.9 mil), which would probably be weak baseball market for the same reasons Miami and Tampa Bay are, but with a smaller population base. Forth is San Antonio (1.9 mil), which is a serious possiblity for the new home of the Marlins. Fifth is Columbus (1.7 mil), which is too close to Cleveland and Cincinnati. Then there's Vegas, then Norfolk-Virginia Beach, then Providence, then Indianapolis (all ~1.6 mil). Memphis, Louisville and Oklaholma City aren't even close (~1.2 mil). As much as I'd like to see the Marlins stay in the Miami area, I think the most likely scenario is that they'll be playing in Portland or San Antonio in the next few years.

[mojorisin71]

In terms of metro population, Portland is the largest market without a team at 2.1 million (Census) (http://www.census.gov/population/www/estimates/Estimates%20pages_final.html). Next is Sacramento (2 mil), which is too close to the Bay Area to be a viable market. Number three is Orlando (1.9 mil), which would probably be weak baseball market for the same reasons Miami and Tampa Bay are, but with a smaller population base. Forth is San Antonio (1.9 mil), which is a serious possiblity for the new home of the Marlins. Fifth is Columbus (1.7 mil), which is too close to Cleveland and Cincinnati. Then there's Vegas, then Norfolk-Virginia Beach, then Providence, then Indianapolis (all ~1.6 mil). Memphis, Louisville and Oklaholma City aren't even close (~1.2 mil). As much as I'd like to see the Marlins stay in the Miami area, I think the most likely scenario is that they'll be playing in Portland or San Antonio in the next few years.
What's wrong with a Sacramento team? San Diego is only 110 miles southeast of LA, and they seem to be doing well down there. Sacramento is only about 80 miles northeast of SF, although if a team were to move there, Raley Field would be in serious need of a renovation.

[efin98]

What's wrong with a Sacramento team? San Diego is only 110 miles southeast of LA, and they seem to be doing well down there. Sacramento is only about 80 miles northeast of SF, although if a team were to move there, Raley Field would be in serious need of a renovation.

There is already two teams in the area, one of which has a hard enough time drawing fans as it is. Adding another team will be a huge blunder, the market can't sustain another one.

Frankly there are markets that are simply better suited to handle AAA teams, Sacrmaento is one of them. Providence and Columbus are others. You don't see those cities clamoring for MLB teams despite being large enough markets to theoretically handle them.

I'd throw Las Vegas into that mix as well as Vancouver and New Orleans. They seem like good places to put teams on paper but they probably can't handle them.



To me, the only place that could and probably should host a team is Portland. Yeah their team wasn't the biggest draw in the minors, but they are still the largest area around without a team that could potentially host a team. They have a large enough stadium that could be expanded again to hold more seats and are large enough of a city to have their own identity and built in rivalry.

[Mach 1]

I think that 3 teams in / near the Bay Area would be too many. However, if the A's were to move to Sacramento, I believe the area would support them with no problem. The River Cats have outdrawn the A's on a few occasions if I remember correctly. But, I'm perfectly happy attending AAA games close to home, with an occasional trip down to Oakland for an A's game.

I do think Portland can be a viable candidate for a team.

[unfinished_business]

I think they would have to build a Ballpark in Portland first. (or is there some College Football Stadium??)
In San Antonio the Marlins could possibly play in the AlamoDome before completion of another HOK Ballpark.

So that would make San Antonio the favorite Area for Relocation.

[mojorisin71]

There's the Beavers' minor league park in Portland, and that's all the suitable places I know of in the Portland area.

[Williamsburg2599]

IMO, Vancover would be nice. And cut off the sword and paint the marlin red and what do you have? a salmon!:D.West Coast Canada could finnaly get a team,which would increase Canada's interest in the game which would increase international interest which in the long run equals more money for the MLB.

[efin98]

There's the Beavers' minor league park in Portland, and that's all the suitable places I know of in the Portland area.

They don't have to spend forever in the park, two or three seasons is all that is required for a team to spend in the park before moving into a facility of their own. The same goes for any other place like the BC Place(Vancouver), Alamodome(San Antonio), and Superdome(New Orleans). The fact that Portland has a large facility that already hosts a high level baseball team that requires only slight modifications to expand capacity is good enough for a team to move there.

[Astro]

They don't have to spend forever in the park, two or three seasons is all that is required for a team to spend in the park before moving into a facility of their own. The same goes for any other place like the BC Place(Vancouver), Alamodome(San Antonio), and Superdome(New Orleans). The fact that Portland has a large facility that already hosts a high level baseball team that requires only slight modifications to expand capacity is good enough for a team to move there.
What is the ballpark's current capacity? They only averaged around 6k

[efin98]

What is the ballpark's current capacity? They only averaged around 6k

Around 19,566 seats and capacity for 20,000...

[Williamsburg2599]

What would happen to the minor league team though?

[redlegsfan21]

Fan Base Metro Area
Atlanta 425,000
Baltimore 641,943
Boston 589,141
Buffalo 282,864
Calgary 956,078
Charlotte 595,101
Chicago 2,862,244
Cincinnati 314,154
Cleveland 478,403
Columbus 711,470
Dallas 1,210,393
Denver 579,744
Detroit 951,270
Edmonton 712,391
Houston 2,012,626
Indianapolis 791,926
Jacksonville 777,704
Kansas City 444,387
Los Angeles 3,845,541
Memphis 680,768
Miami 382,894
Milwaukee 596,974
Minneapolis 382,618
Montreal 1,583,590
Nashville 569,891
New Orleans 484,674
New York City 8,104,079
Newark 273,546
Oakland 412,318
Orlando 205,648
Ottawa 808,391
Philadelphia 1,470,151
Phoenix 1,416,055
Pittsburgh 334,563
Portland 556,370
Sacramento 460,000
Salt Lake City 181,743
San Antonio 1,236,249
San Diego 1,305,736
San Francisco 744,230
San Jose 944,857
Seattle 580,089
St. Louis 350,705
Tampa 333,040
Toronto 2,418,494
Vancouver 545,671
Washington 553,523

Current cities with a major sports team (MLB, NBA, NFL, NHL)

[efin98]

What would happen to the minor league team though?

Relocation to another city. That's what happened to the team from Denver when the Rockies came in.

[wamby]

Only slightly related but I want to point something out if they move to San Antonio. Look at their name the San Antonio Marlins? They would have to change their name.

Like when the Minneapolis Lakers had to change their name when they moved to Los Angeles? Or the New Orleans Jazz when they moved to Utah?

[redlegsfan21]

The Fish Are Playing In The Middle Of Texas.

[Williamsburg2599]

Relocation to another city. That's what happened to the team from Denver when the Rockies came in.
But wouldn't portland miss their belovied minor league team?:D BTW, I saw that youve passed the 2,000 post mark efin, congrats:)

[Gagne#3 8]

Fan Base Metro Area
Atlanta 425,000
Baltimore 641,943
Boston 589,141
Buffalo 282,864
Calgary 956,078
Charlotte 595,101
Chicago 2,862,244
Cincinnati 314,154
Cleveland 478,403
Columbus 711,470
Dallas 1,210,393
Denver 579,744
Detroit 951,270
Edmonton 712,391
Houston 2,012,626
Indianapolis 791,926
Jacksonville 777,704
Kansas City 444,387
Los Angeles 3,845,541
Memphis 680,768
Miami 382,894
Milwaukee 596,974
Minneapolis 382,618
Montreal 1,583,590
Nashville 569,891
New Orleans 484,674
New York City 8,104,079
Newark 273,546
Oakland 412,318
Orlando 205,648
Ottawa 808,391
Philadelphia 1,470,151
Phoenix 1,416,055
Pittsburgh 334,563
Portland 556,370
Sacramento 460,000
Salt Lake City 181,743
San Antonio 1,236,249
San Diego 1,305,736
San Francisco 744,230
San Jose 944,857
Seattle 580,089
St. Louis 350,705
Tampa 333,040
Toronto 2,418,494
Vancouver 545,671
Washington 553,523

Current cities with a major sports team (MLB, NBA, NFL, NHL)


Population through the cities CSMA is more telling than a city's population

[Knick9]

But wouldn't portland miss their belovied minor league team? :D BTW, I saw that youve passed the 2,000 post mark efin, congrats:)

No, the city would be glad to trade their AAA team in for MLB, I'm sure of it.

Gagne#38: What's CSMA? Sorry, you lost me alittle bit there. :confused:

[Captain Cold Nose]

Ohio State University fought tooth and nail against the NHL expanding into Columbus. High metro population or not, adding an MLB team to the area will be something that won't go over easy, to say nothing of the teams located on the opposite ends of the interstate (I-71) Columbus shares with them.

I'm not sure what CS stands for, but I'd venture a guess MA stands for metro area, which is what is looked at for expansion, not just the city itself.

[Hooligan1]

I'm not sure what exactly constitutes "metro-population" but Grand Rapids Michigan boasts 200,000 in the city proper and 1.38 million in the six major counties that make up the area. We have a low-A ball team, the West Michigan White Caps. I believe we are a larger TV market than Buffalo, New York which has both NFL and NHL teams. One problem is that we're not far (about 2 1/2 hour drive) from Detroit and almost everybody in this area who is a sports fan is either a hard-core Detroit fan or a hard-core Chicago backer. (we're also just about a 2 1/2 hour drive from Chi-Town) It might prove hard to get people to change allegiances.......

[efin98]

What's wrong with a Sacramento team? San Diego is only 110 miles southeast of LA, and they seem to be doing well down there. Sacramento is only about 80 miles northeast of SF, although if a team were to move there, Raley Field would be in serious need of a renovation.


Just occured to me there is a very good reason why there won't be a team in Sacramento: The A's have rights there along with the fact their their AAA team is there. I doubt they would allow their top affiliate to be supplanted by a Major League team, especially one that will most definately compete with them for attendance. Baseball is all about territorial rights, have been for a while. Unless there is a buyer for the relocating team with deep enough pockets to pay large amounts for relocating the As' team and buying their rights to the Sacramento area any move out there is not going to happen.

[Chisox]

I did this 3 years ago or so, but I guess it's time to do it again.
Here are the Metro areas between the U.S.A. and Canada.
The projections are based on the overall growth %, so it's not quite like how the Census Bureau theirs. (It is however used with the census numbers.)

Rank Overall Area 1/1/2006 Growth % 4/1/2010 4/1/2020 4/1/2050
1 New York, NY 22,211,341 8.44 190 22,988,868 1 24,929,394 1 31,788,852 2
2 Los Angeles, CA 17,537,085 12.68 144 18,448,677 2 20,787,358 2 29,735,352 3
3 Chicago, IL 9,730,957 11.14 160 10,177,178 3 11,310,674 3 15,525,538 7
4 Washington, DC 8,166,122 13.10 137 8,604,184 4 9,731,047 4 14,076,018 9
5 San Francisco 7,535,448 12.57 147 7,923,964 5 8,920,019 5 12,723,524 10
6 Philadelphia 6,365,099 5.01 229 6,498,722 7 6,824,628 10 7,903,516 17
7 Dallas, TX 6,054,549 29.34 26 6,753,377 6 8,734,784 6 18,896,646 6
8 Boston, MA 6,039,160 6.67 208 6,206,934 8 6,620,734 12 8,034,849 16
9 Detroit, MI 5,617,575 5.19 224 5,739,582 10 6,037,514 13 7,027,158 20
10 Houston, TX 5,312,720 25.15 36 5,843,685 9 7,313,467 8 14,334,396 8
11 Toronto, Ont 5,103,511 20.63 61 5,526,602 12 6,666,908 11 11,702,495 11
12 Atlanta, GA 4,968,194 38.93 11 5,712,478 11 7,936,229 7 21,276,734 4
13 Miami, FL 4,334,130 21.42 56 4,706,386 14 5,714,416 14 10,227,713 12
14 Phoenix, AZ 4,030,985 45.27 8 4,723,570 13 6,862,006 9 21,033,163 5
15 Seattle, WA 3,941,621 19.68 68 4,253,974 15 5,090,972 16 8,725,204 15
16 Montreal, Que 3,520,628 6.10 214 3,610,238 16 3,830,409 19 4,574,660 27
17 Minneapolis, MN 3,248,339 16.94 90 3,471,449 17 4,059,366 18 6,490,282 21
18 San Diego, CA 3,013,249 12.64 145 3,169,475 19 3,570,182 21 5,102,363 24
19 Denver, CO 3,006,884 30.37 24 3,365,262 18 4,387,287 17 9,719,966 13
20 Cleveland, OH 2,996,573 3.01 251 3,034,591 20 3,126,051 23 3,417,248 37
21 Saint Louis, MO 2,669,724 4.46 236 2,719,607 24 2,840,809 26 3,237,721 38
22 Tampa, FL 2,607,735 15.86 107 2,775,959 23 3,216,307 22 5,002,136 25
23 Portland, OR 2,590,833 26.30 34 2,860,873 22 3,613,383 20 7,279,552 18
24 San Juan, PR 2,559,877 7.90 197 2,643,907 25 2,852,881 25 3,584,081 35
25 Pittsburgh, PA 2,338,170 -1.51 287 2,323,133 26 2,288,098 34 2,186,150 50
26 Las Vegas, NV 2,215,276 83.33 1 2,865,415 21 5,253,028 15 32,354,319 1
27 Vancouver, BC 2,140,975 17.68 84 2,294,208 27 2,699,856 28 4,399,719 28
28 Cincinnati, OH 2,078,594 8.89 183 2,155,156 30 2,346,807 31 3,030,075 41
29 Sacramento, CA 2,008,096 21.32 58 2,179,812 29 2,644,525 29 4,721,580 26
30 Orlando, FL 1,948,270 34.27 16 2,207,910 28 2,964,474 24 7,174,254 19
31 Kansas City, MO 1,897,675 12.20 152 1,992,764 31 2,235,978 35 3,158,454 39
32 San Antonio, TX 1,770,148 20.20 66 1,913,990 33 2,300,666 32 3,995,320 31
33 Indianapolis 1,754,575 16.44 100 1,871,728 34 2,179,497 36 3,440,812 36
34 Milwaukee, WI 1,738,857 5.13 226 1,776,160 36 1,867,211 41 2,169,281 52
35 Charlotte, NC 1,735,896 29.02 27 1,934,202 32 2,495,442 30 5,358,260 23
36 Columbus, OH 1,664,656 14.47 117 1,762,976 37 2,018,105 38 3,026,941 42
37 Norfolk, VA 1,647,126 8.75 187 1,706,851 38 1,856,216 42 2,387,301 48
38 Austin, TX 1,563,950 47.69 5 1,845,534 35 2,725,605 27 8,777,938 14
39 Salt Lake City 1,512,429 24.41 40 1,659,369 39 2,064,353 37 3,974,252 33
40 Raleigh, NC 1,434,772 38.85 12 1,649,331 40 2,290,129 33 6,129,681 22
41 Nashville, TN 1,399,944 25.00 38 1,539,080 41 1,923,895 40 3,757,409 34
42 Greensboro, NC 1,384,246 19.16 72 1,491,187 42 1,776,851 43 3,005,843 43
43 New Orleans, LA 1,368,860 4.08 238 1,392,308 44 1,449,132 47 1,633,868 64
44 West Palm Beach 1,321,222 31.00 22 1,481,709 43 1,940,997 39 4,362,609 29
45 Jacksonville 1,230,161 21.37 57 1,335,591 45 1,621,001 45 2,897,792 44
46 Providence, RI 1,220,990 4.78 233 1,245,456 48 1,305,034 54 1,500,294 67
47 Memphis, TN 1,216,685 12.74 143 1,280,224 46 1,443,295 48 2,067,924 54
48 Hartford, CT 1,198,045 2.21 255 1,209,191 51 1,235,854 58 1,319,406 74
49 Grand Rapids 1,185,865 16.06 104 1,263,275 47 1,466,154 46 2,291,866 49
50 Oklahoma City 1,162,150 12.99 140 1,223,980 50 1,382,916 49 1,994,487 57
51 Buffalo, NY 1,159,222 -1.61 289 1,151,248 53 1,132,685 61 1,078,780 92
52 Ottawa, Ont 1,126,947 13.43 132 1,188,897 52 1,348,598 52 1,968,189 59
53 Rochester, NY 1,119,293 3.36 245 1,135,123 55 1,173,298 60 1,295,674 75
54 Calgary, Alb 1,088,379 34.09 17 1,232,748 49 1,653,030 44 3,985,009 32
55 Richmond, VA 1,080,562 15.12 112 1,147,126 54 1,320,554 53 2,014,459 55
56 Louisville, KY 1,072,533 8.09 193 1,108,555 58 1,198,247 59 1,513,197 66
57 Greenville, SC 1,047,573 15.88 106 1,115,214 57 1,292,289 55 2,010,616 56
58 Fresno, CA 1,034,749 22.09 49 1,126,273 56 1,375,109 50 2,502,476 47
59 Edmonton, Alb 1,012,629 18.21 77 1,087,184 59 1,285,196 56 2,122,893 53
60 Birmingham, AL 971,161 9.64 175 1,009,849 61 1,107,171 62 1,459,038 70
61 Tucson, AZ 965,986 26.52 33 1,067,451 60 1,350,554 51 2,734,941 46
62 Dayton, OH 950,149 -0.07 277 949,847 62 949,136 67 947,007 101
63 Honululu, HI 899,976 4.77 234 917,975 63 961,803 66 1,106,218 89
64 Albany, NY 883,832 1.64 259 889,971 65 904,599 70 949,934 100
65 Tulsa, OK 863,037 13.30 133 910,023 64 1,031,043 64 1,499,412 69
66 Albuquerque, NM 795,252 20.98 59 862,234 66 1,043,142 63 1,846,937 61
67 Omaha, NE 765,699 12.10 153 803,762 70 901,053 71 1,269,383 76
68 Knoxville, TN 753,253 17.29 85 806,012 68 945,339 68 1,525,064 65
69 Bakersfield, CA 740,914 21.74 52 805,463 69 980,594 65 1,769,189 62
70 El Paso, TX 736,054 14.88 116 780,698 71 896,840 72 1,359,495 73
71 Syracuse, NY 726,393 -1.36 285 722,196 73 712,407 86 683,833 126
72 McAllen, TX 714,806 48.47 4 845,411 67 1,255,211 57 4,107,433 30
73 Hamilton, Ont 699,331 12.56 148 735,361 72 827,725 75 1,180,363 82
74 Quebec, Que 692,881 3.26 246 702,389 75 725,302 83 798,609 114
75 Winnipeg, Man 675,132 1.26 263 678,725 78 687,262 90 713,517 124
76 Allentown, PA 664,004 7.21 205 683,911 77 733,189 82 903,332 104
77 Sarasota, FL 656,836 20.53 63 711,023 74 856,975 74 1,500,294 68
78 Harrisburg, PA 654,529 7.04 206 673,721 79 721,174 84 884,515 107
79 Baton Rouge, LA 650,502 14.13 122 688,042 76 785,245 76 1,167,195 84
80 Little Rock, AR 628,858 13.78 125 664,299 81 755,866 79 1,113,416 88
81 Toledo, OH 620,559 0.66 272 622,304 85 626,433 98 638,984 131
82 Stockton, CA 617,656 17.26 86 660,862 82 774,946 77 1,249,437 77
83 Scranton, PA 617,036 -2.14 291 611,383 88 598,274 103 560,615 146
84 Colorado Spngs 601,668 30.20 25 673,015 80 876,294 73 1,934,025 60
85 Springfield, MA 594,273 0.69 270 596,007 90 600,111 102 612,591 139
86 Columbia, SC 591,408 18.39 75 635,350 83 752,180 80 1,247,983 78
87 Youngstown, OH 591,238 -1.02 282 588,662 92 582,638 106 564,937 143
88 Wichita, KS 582,998 12.35 151 612,557 86 688,232 89 976,050 97
89 Mobile, AL 580,426 13.28 134 611,983 87 693,254 87 1,007,677 96
90 Charleston, SC 574,850 8.32 191 594,684 91 644,146 96 818,574 111
91 Daytona Beach 556,765 23.47 44 608,912 89 751,854 81 1,415,208 72
92 Boise, ID 537,761 46.14 7 631,746 84 923,209 69 2,880,595 45
93 Lakeland, FL 535,813 19.37 70 577,655 94 689,575 88 1,172,945 83
94 Fort Wayne, IN 530,576 10.05 171 552,596 97 608,136 100 810,509 112
95 Melbourne, FL 527,262 19.36 71 568,412 95 678,471 92 1,153,699 85
96 Lexington, KY 527,179 18.05 78 565,656 96 667,744 94 1,098,356 90
97 Augusta, GA 517,391 15.00 114 549,012 98 631,337 97 959,987 99
98 Fort Myers, FL 516,237 31.56 21 580,006 93 763,079 78 1,737,463 63
99 Johnson City 507,410 10.10 170 528,570 101 581,959 107 776,677 116
100 Lancaster, PA 500,584 11.31 159 523,891 102 583,161 105 804,279 113

I'm in a HUGE hurry and probably won't have time to get back to this until Tuesday at the earliest to make it easier to read and answer questions, but I hope this answers some questions. Anyone know how to make this wider?

[Chisox]

No, the city would be glad to trade their AAA team in for MLB, I'm sure of it.

Gagne#38: What's CSMA? Sorry, you lost me alittle bit there. :confused:
CMSA is Consolidated Metropolitan Statistical Area.

[Chisox]

I'm not sure what exactly constitutes "metro-population" but Grand Rapids Michigan boasts 200,000 in the city proper and 1.38 million in the six major counties that make up the area. We have a low-A ball team, the West Michigan White Caps. I believe we are a larger TV market than Buffalo, New York which has both NFL and NHL teams. One problem is that we're not far (about 2 1/2 hour drive) from Detroit and almost everybody in this area who is a sports fan is either a hard-core Detroit fan or a hard-core Chicago backer. (we're also just about a 2 1/2 hour drive from Chi-Town) It might prove hard to get people to change allegiances.......

http://www.census.gov/population/www/estimates/metrodef.html
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/bulletins/fy2006/b06-01.pdf
Your counties are Barry, Iona, Kent, Newaygo
http://ftp2.census.gov/geo/maps/metroarea/stcbsa_pg/Nov2004/cbsa2004_MI.pdf will provide the best answer for you.

[Captain Cold Nose]

I'm not sure what exactly constitutes "metro-population" but Grand Rapids Michigan boasts 200,000 in the city proper and 1.38 million in the six major counties that make up the area. We have a low-A ball team, the West Michigan White Caps. I believe we are a larger TV market than Buffalo, New York which has both NFL and NHL teams. One problem is that we're not far (about 2 1/2 hour drive) from Detroit and almost everybody in this area who is a sports fan is either a hard-core Detroit fan or a hard-core Chicago backer. (we're also just about a 2 1/2 hour drive from Chi-Town) It might prove hard to get people to change allegiances.......
Some of my closest friends in the world live in Grand Rapids and the surrounding area. But population alone is only one consideration. I just don't see it as an MLB city. If Bud Selig is wary of Vegas, how does he feel about the city Amway built?

[Bluesteve32]

What's wrong with a Sacramento team? San Diego is only 110 miles southeast of LA, and they seem to be doing well down there. Sacramento is only about 80 miles northeast of SF, although if a team were to move there, Raley Field would be in serious need of a renovation.

First of all, San Diego is one of the nation's top ten cities in population, not countin the metro area. The Bay Area is is not and can be subdivided in to three almost distinct areas. Sacramento is rather small and metro area is not really that big for No Cal to support a third MLB team. If one of the Bay Area teams does move to Sacto, it would be the only scenario for a team to work there.

I also see Las Vegas being an unwise place for MLB and NO is completely out of the question, even before Katrina.

[tigers527]

My immediate thought was Tampa and Kansas City when I saw the title of this thread.:D

I'd have to go with Las Vegas. Though there is no way they'd put an MLB team there for obvious reasons.

Vegas would be perfect. You could give Pete Rose an exemption to his ban on baseball, only if it is Las Vegas Gamblers baseball. You could put statues of the eight men out in the outfield. The Maloff (spelling??) brothers can own the team. Wayne Newton can sing the National Anthem, Sigfried and roy can throw out the first pitch, and Celine Dion can sing Take Me Out To the Ballgame.

Seriously, I like the idea of Louisville, naturally they'd be the Sluggers. And why is it Florida they always speak of moving? Why not TB?

It reminds me of a few years back when the league spoke of dissolving teams including the Tigers and the Twins. Sometimes this league has its head examining its colon. Oh well, league management is slightly better then NHL league management.

[Knick9]

tigers527: Tampa Bay has a lease in the Trop that lasts into the 2020's somewhere I think, so there is no way the TB team will move unless there's an expensive buy-out on the lease.

[T Rip]

Having grown up in Miami, but having left a long time ago, i love having a "home team" to root for. And they've sure done better out here than my Rangers or Astros for that matter. But if they do, it seems that San Antone would be a good fit. There are fish in Texas, but I haven't seen any Marlins (well, at Minute Maid last year:rolleyes: ) Maybe they could be the Crappies or Catfish or Florida bass...

[tigers527]

tigers527: Tampa Bay has a lease in the Trop that lasts into the 2020's somewhere I think, so there is no way the TB will move unless there's an expensive buy-out on the lease.

Now that you mention that I do seem to remember that. GO D RAYS!!!:D

[chrismarullo]

The city population doesn't matter near as much as the combined population with the surrounding suburbs. That total makes up the TV/Radio market size and that's were the money is.

San Antonio is large metropolitan city but doesn't have a big suburban population. It's one of the biggest cities as far as population goes, but is ranked in the 30s in TV/Radio markets.

[1doug]

Norfolk, Va. was in the running for a while to get the Expos. I think thats a good area, but now with the Orioles and Nats up the road and the Braves to the south, it may not work.