Why???

[Williamsburg2599]

My babe ruth league has a new rule:
VI. The hidden ball rule will be interpreted as follows: The pitcher may not in any way touch the dirt surrounding the pitching mound while the ball is hidden by any player but himself. WHY?! is this somehow dangerous to people or something?? Is it "unfair?" how could it be, when both teams can do it? What are they going to ban next? the double steal?the suicide squeeze? wow!!!!!:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :evil :grouchy :grouchy

[Ursa Major]

Why? Because it's a gimmick, not real baseball, and it inevitably is a means to humiliate an opponent. Not a good objective for youth ball.

A suicide squeeze and a double steal are real baseball -- bunting well or running hard. The hidden ball trick is just hiding the ball in your glove and fooling the opposing player.

Why do you care so much?

[Williamsburg2599]

Why? Because it's a gimmick, not real baseball, and it inevitably is a means to humiliate an opponent. Not a good objective for youth ball.

A suicide squeeze and a double steal are real baseball -- bunting well or running hard. The hidden ball trick is just hiding the ball in your glove and fooling the opposing player.

Why do you care so much?
Opponents get humiliated all the time in Youth Baseball and baseball in general. 15-0 games, a pitcher who lets up 8 runs, a batter who strikes out or a fielder who trips going after a ball, or putting on a Marlins uniform:D.Athletes get humiliated all the time, I don't see why you can make the opponent look silly in other youth sports like football with reverses and HB passes, but not in baseball?The hidden ball trick has always been allowed and was fun to use, and they took it away from us without explanation.:mad:

[Bluesteve32]

A tennant in baseball philosophy is to be fair and balanced between the offense and defense. Most of the hidden ball tricks are illegal or invalid by rule. Any time "time" is called, you cannot enforce a balk or call an out after such a play, because the ball was not legally put back in play.

In NFHS rules, they have a five foot restriction from the rubber for the pitcher to be without the ball. In OBR and NCAA, the pitcher may not be "on or astride" the runner without the ball and most interpretations have included the areas on top near the rubber as well. It would also be a balk to simulate any pitching motion off the rubber with or without the ball.

After that being said, most hidden ball tricks are bushleague baseball.

[ssarge]

I've never minded trick plays, because anyone who has played the game knows that they only work against good and aggressive base runners. It's almost a compliment. The typical slug baserunner will never get caught because he is never being aggressive or trying to create an opportunity. But that baserunner will never win a game for you, either.

As far as I'm concerned, if something is within the rules, it isn't bush. I don't think it is wrong to bunt to break up a no-hitter. I remember when Brenley had a cow about this a couple of years ago in Arizona. It was a 2-0 game! A safe bunt brought the tying run to the plate. Defend the freaking bunt if you want your perfect game, for crying out loud! I don't think it is a big deal to steal when you are way ahead. That's why it's scored Defensive INDIFFERENCE instead of SB.

I also don't think it is bush to try to steal signs. I don't think it matters much, because it is so easy to preclude - and so non-contributory to outcome anyway - that it's like, "Who cares?"


All of these things are irritating when you lose or they work against you. And I personally don't do many of them - not my style. But I don't come unglued if the other guy does, either. Just file it away, and remember. I'm not a big believer in kharma (more western spiritual beliefs). But if it DOES exist, it is manivested more obviously over time on a baseball field than anywhere else in the universe.

Regards,

Scott

[wilson68]

I have never understood the whining in the sport about certain things, many of which Scott touched upon, being against the 'unwritten' rules. I once had a coach apologize when his team thumped mine something like 35-0. We were just a select team of rec players that went in a tournament and found ourselves in the bronze medal game. He said, 'I tried to slow them down but you know girls of this age.' I said, 'If we didn't want you to score than we should have stopped you.' It's not like it's football, no one is going home in a body cast if you are beaten.

Same thing with signs. If we weren't expecting the other team to see them than why are we using signs? Why don't we just shout 'Curveball' and the other team should have the common decency to ignore us.

I remember the perfect game bunt situation. When nifty things like hitting streaks, perfect games and potential cycles start to screw with the tactics you are using to win a game then you have a problem. One mis-played bunt and the first hit of the game could have tied that game up. And the losing team was in a pennant race if I remember correctly. What if Jimmy Rollins, at the start of this year, comes to the plate in an obvious bunt situation in what is likely to be his last at bat of a hitless (so far) game? Stopping at first when you only need the single to get the cycle? I know I have digressed but they all sort of feed into each other.