How the Tigers could contend this year.

[tigers527]

Now leaving out the standard if everyones healthy, in particular Carlos Gullien. Heres how the Tigers can compete.

If Kenny Rodgers and Jeremy Bonderman (Bondermania running wild) can repeat their 1st half preformance from last year (both with double digit wins). There is no reason not to expect that from Rodgers whos always been a real good 1st half preformer. Perhaps Rodgers 2nd half slumps are due to the heat in Texas? If once during my life we can catch lightening in a bottle with a rookie starter (ok I was 3 in 76 with the Bird). If these things happen, not a huge strech, we should be right in there by the allstar break. Then maybe they wont know any better after that?

The offensive keys aside from the mentioned Gullien would come to Ordonez. I am not affraid of him being injured I just hope he comes close to his regular form. Aside from his knee recon years, he's always played over 100 games. Gullien however has rarely played more then 100 games in a season. They should of signed a 3rd baseman in the off season. Inge is a very solid platoon guy, and with the impending Gullien injury he could step into SS fairly easily (it was his college position). I think we'll miss Rondell White more and more as the year goes on. Especially if Dimitri Young keeps cooling the fans with his big swings and no contact.

Hopefully the rest of the bats can catch up to Shelton. The pitching staff will look better then people think. Ask yourself? Rodgers for Jason Johnson? Yes. Verlander for Ledezma or Douglass? Yes. Just hope the rest can at least be themselves and Robertson gets more run support. Lets hope Todd Jones can be what he was last year.

If all that happens and its not too far fetched maybe we can keep up with the Indians. I would not worry about the WhiteSox they cant go 23-5 (or something like that) in 1 run games 2 years in a row? Can they?

[tigers527]

Those White Sox signed a pact with the devil or something. More 1 run wins...everyday. Down by 5...win by 1. It is sick.

[racosun]

Those White Sox signed a pact with the devil or something. More 1 run wins...everyday. Down by 5...win by 1. It is sick.

At least Jenks blew it today. He's been spotty all year, which could end up being their downfall.

[Damus/777]

The biggest question is......

"Can the Tigers pitching hold up?"

Nobody but the Shadow knows for sure. This team (barring multiple players on the extended DL) will go as far as the pitching staff takes them. They can hit well enough to reach the playoffs -- teams with worse defense have reached the playoffs..... so really pitching is the key to our success.

The season is stilll 90% young. There's so much baseball left to play! It's way-too-early to do anything more than just dream-on & keep cheering them-on.:clapping :clapping

[Andy1134]

Simple. We've got to learn how to close out games with a 1-run lead. Hint, hint, hint.:confused:

[racosun]

Simple. We've got to learn how to close out games with a 1-run lead. Hint, hint, hint.:confused:

I know, how about Fernando Rodney? What has the guy done so far to show that he's a lesser-talent closer than Todd Jones? Jonesy has been nothing but shaky so far, while Rodney has been nearly unhittable. I just don't really see a whole lot of logic in using a big-heater guy in Bonderman all game, mix in some Zumaya, then show them more fastballs, but 5-6 mph slower. Of course they're going to see them better, as showcased in the bottom of the ninth. Ugh. I'm guessing that this will be another of those championship learning moments, and that we'll now proceed to win another 14 of the next 18. Long story short, Rodney is the better option at closer at the moment. I'll let Leyland do what he's going to do without any direct fuss towards him, but this can't continue. It's obvious Jones isn't the best option, just the most experienced. As Jim Leyland said in ST, age doesn't matter when it comes to talent. Let the talent loose, Jim.

[riverfrontier]

that was a disappointing loss, to say the least, but it will happen from time to time. i do agree that a closer should be more dominating than a set-up man, but i don't know if it should be rodney. with the fast start and greater (although unrealistic, perhaps) expectations for this year's team, i think there would be a lot of flak coming down on leyland if he started experimenting and auditioning for a closer and dropped a few ballgames in the process.

[tigers527]

Oh well, so it happened. 1 month and 3 days into the season the bullpen blew a save. It was a bummer for sure, but <shrugs> last year the Tigers had 11 losses by April 30 (11-11) and didn't reach 20 W until May 21 (20-21). That said it could be worse.

For those calling for a closer change, which I agree with. I would say don't hold your breathe, Leyland being an old school fellow carves his lineup and bullpen issues in stone. If changes happen, it will be a good 60+ games into this thing. Heck, maybe if Jones keeps this up (1 blown save every 7 chances), we might be able to trade Jones for this years Placido? Only a 3B or OF.

[riverfrontier]

I don't think Inge is that much of a crutch at 3b, and I would not want to part with one of the young pitchers (namely Verlander) for somebody like Miguel Cabrera. Good starting pitching is the hardest thing to find. If you have it, it can overcome a hole or two in your line up.

[tigers527]

I don't think Inge is that much of a crutch at 3b, and I would not want to part with one of the young pitchers (namely Verlander) for somebody like Miguel Cabrera. Good starting pitching is the hardest thing to find. If you have it, it can overcome a hole or two in your line up.

I agree with the Inge not that much of a crutch. I was just suggesting finding the 2006 version of Placido whom the Tigers traded Ugeth Urbina (or however he spells his name). Trade Jones if he can be at 18 SV out of 21 chances (which he is on pace for), for the 3B or OF that fits the Palonco circumstances. If it is 3B it would free Inge up for a more valued role utility man extrodinaire. Heck, he could even catch a game or 2. If it is a 4th outfielder I would hope he be at least a good defensive replacement (although, Inge has shown above average defence in the few OF chances hes had). That would make the move for Leyland, who I do not think will be quick to bench Jones in favor of Rodney. Although, I do not know who needs a closer, or what they would offer in return for one like "rollercoaster" Jones.

[racosun]

I wouldn't mind trading Jones for a new 3B, but keep in mind he certainly ain't no Kyle Farnsworth or Ugie Urbina. Both of those guys have more heat and are younger, and both earned less money. Jones will be quite a bit harder to trade, but there's also always someone needing a closer (or at least THINKING they need a closer) near the deadline. Rodney was already on track to be the team's closer before Jonesy came back, but his troubles last year made DD think twice about keeping him in that role. Last season was Rodney's "recovery" year from Tommy John surgery, and now he looks better than ever, and more wiser for the wear. If Rodney couldn't do it for some strange reason, Zumaya looks mean enough to do it for the next 15-20 years.

While I agree that there are worse options than Brandon Inge playing third, to me he still looks like the weakest link in the lineup. Inge's slumps seem to last longer than other players' slumps, and even when he's not slumping he K's way too much (like Monroe and Shelton). If we could trade for an upgrade at third base, then why not? Especially if we're in a pennant chase. Last game of the season, needing a win, bottom of the ninth, two outs, nobody on, 3-and-2 count, Brandon Inge at the plate. See what I mean? You could plug any other name into that scenario and feel better about it.

[tigers527]

While I agree that there are worse options than Brandon Inge playing third, to me he still looks like the weakest link in the lineup. Inge's slumps seem to last longer than other players' slumps, and even when he's not slumping he K's way too much (like Monroe and Shelton). If we could trade for an upgrade at third base, then why not? Especially if we're in a pennant chase. Last game of the season, needing a win, bottom of the ninth, two outs, nobody on, 3-and-2 count, Brandon Inge at the plate. See what I mean? You could plug any other name into that scenario and feel better about it.

I would suggest your new buddy Craig Monroe would be worse. He is not clutch at all. Like the blind squirrel Inge does find a nut from time to time in clutch situations. Monroe seems to me to never tie or win the game. He's put a handful of games away, and made a few scores respectable instead of the Tigers getting blown out. Other then that I can't say hes tied or won many games to my memory. Whereas Inge has, recently even.

[tigers527]

Tampa seems to have extra 3B, Huff and Wiggington. Jones and the old player to be named later for either of them would be realistic, if the Tigers pick up some of Jones's salary.

[riverfrontier]

I'd much more easily part with Jones than any of the younger guys. You don't get guys like Verlander and Zumaya falling off trees. I'm not so sure about putting a kid like Zumaya in such a pressure slot as the closer role, but he may be up to it. At least for a time or two around the league until the other teams get a good read on him.
Santana smoked us today. The guy is back in a big way. I wish we could've pulled out yesterday's game to take the series. We need every inter-division game we can possibly get. I hope we don't see him next time around.

[racosun]

I would suggest your new buddy Craig Monroe would be worse.

It's very close. Although I've recently changed my opinion on Craig Monroe, I still realize that he isn't very clutch. I wince when either comes to the plate, to tell the truth. Monroe is more of a run producer and a pure hitter than Inge, so I'd still take Monroe in the aforementioned situation any day.

[racosun]

I'd much more easily part with Jones than any of the younger guys. You don't get guys like Verlander and Zumaya falling off trees. I'm not so sure about putting a kid like Zumaya in such a pressure slot as the closer role, but he may be up to it. At least for a time or two around the league until the other teams get a good read on him.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying "trade Jones for anything." I liked his signing, but more in the Kenny Rogers sort of way: helping out with advice for the young hurlers. Jones used to be a helluva closer for a time, and came back pretty strong last season as well. He has plenty to teach, and you can already see the results in how strong the 'pen has looked. He knows what it takes to succeed in this league, and just his ability to pass that on is worth his contract. I'd like Jones to stick around, just not as the closer. I think Rodney is ready right now to be not just a closer, but a dominant one. Zumaya is extremely talented, and is ready for the full-time set-up role. Jones would be a fantastic 7th inning guy and pitching guru to the others in the bullpen.

I can't see any scenario where I'd part with any of the young guys we have on the staff now. DD worked hard to build that, and they are what championship teams are built around. I do like the Jones and PTBN for an Aubrey Huff trade. Huff is far better than Inge, although much more injury-prone. Too bad there isn't any way we could acquire David Wright without giving up Verlander, which the Mets most assuredly would want in return. I'm a strong believer in having solid power guys at the corner infield spots, as well as the corner outfield spots. The rest can be speedy, defensive-minded clutch hitters.

[riverfrontier]

I understand the traditional premise of having power hitting corner players, but if you have above average production numbers from positions that are traditionally good field/no hit, it becomes a wash, does it not? SS and C come to mind with this team. A deal for somebody like Huff would be great, as long as the young pitchers are still here. A team like Tampa Bay would have to see the value in taking on a guy almost a decade older to close games, of which there are not many, for a last place team. It's not a rock star stat, and Jones is not a rock star closer. Huff has been the face of that team, which is probably good for a season ticket package or two, but he may be expendable now that they have Gomes. All in all, their salaries are a push, and all in all, (knock on wood) I'm glad to be out of the situation the Devil Rays are in.

[tigers527]

I am not starting by saying our OF blew yesterdays game, but if our OF tracked the ball and showed some leather. Yesterdays game would have been much closer.

As it stands right now we have 4.5 OF (Dimitri being the 1/2 an OF) and not one of them is even average in all the skills you track outfielders in. Granderson is getting much better at center, he's even had a few good/great jumps in the last few weeks. His arm however is not all that, although, CF does not demand much of an arm. I'd rate Granderson at right about average. Ordonez is look much better then last year, running down foul balls in the corner. He's moving much better then he has in a Tigers uniform. However he was never fast, and his arm although, the best on the team is average maybe a slight bit above average. Craig Monroe can look great on one play and then a hot mess on the next. And at times it looks like he might have a good arm, if you aren't too interested in location of said throw. Marcus Thames (in his short tenure) looks like a slower more disiplined Craig Monroe.

That said I would like to see Thames sent down (if we can without the waivers thing) and (when healthy) Nook Logan called up. The only pure atheletic OFer we have is Granderson. Monroe at times looks the part, but other times he looks bad, especially his arm. With Gomez gone although we didn't get a good look at him we could use more of a speed defense guy in the OF.

Would an outfield of Logan LF, Granderson CF, and Ordonez RF, look that bad? Although, Logan is going to have to show he can hit when the oppisition plays its outfield in deep infield. That idea would give us a solid OF especially in Comerica. Would the lineup be that bad?
1 Granderson
2 Palonco
3 Rodrigez
4 Ordonez
5 Young
6 Shelton
7 Guillen
8 Inge
9 Logan

I would goto battle with that. Although, Logan likely won't add much pop, if he could have tracked down that 2 RBI triple in LF yesterday, which I think he could. The game is completely different.

[serumgard]

I am not starting by saying our OF blew yesterdays game, but if our OF tracked the ball and showed some leather. Yesterdays game would have been much closer.

As it stands right now we have 4.5 OF (Dimitri being the 1/2 an OF) and not one of them is even average in all the skills you track outfielders in. Granderson is getting much better at center, he's even had a few good/great jumps in the last few weeks. His arm however is not all that, although, CF does not demand much of an arm. I'd rate Granderson at right about average. Ordonez is look much better then last year, running down foul balls in the corner. He's moving much better then he has in a Tigers uniform. However he was never fast, and his arm although, the best on the team is average maybe a slight bit above average. Craig Monroe can look great on one play and then a hot mess on the next. And at times it looks like he might have a good arm, if you aren't too interested in location of said throw. Marcus Thames (in his short tenure) looks like a slower more disiplined Craig Monroe.

That said I would like to see Thames sent down (if we can without the waivers thing) and (when healthy) Nook Logan called up. The only pure atheletic OFer we have is Granderson. Monroe at times looks the part, but other times he looks bad, especially his arm. With Gomez gone although we didn't get a good look at him we could use more of a speed defense guy in the OF.

Would an outfield of Logan LF, Granderson CF, and Ordonez RF, look that bad? Although, Logan is going to have to show he can hit when the oppisition plays its outfield in deep infield. That idea would give us a solid OF especially in Comerica. Would the lineup be that bad?
1 Granderson
2 Palonco
3 Rodrigez
4 Ordonez
5 Young
6 Shelton
7 Guillen
8 Inge
9 Logan

I would goto battle with that. Although, Logan likely won't add much pop, if he could have tracked down that 2 RBI triple in LF yesterday, which I think he could. The game is completely different.
Yes, it would be that absurd. First, if you're going to play Logan anywhere, it would be in CF. Second, yes, there is a serious downgrade from Monroe to Logan. What did he hit in Spring Training? Under .100?

A mediocre outfield defensively doesn't make up for a bad outfield offensively. If you go to battle with the outfield you suggest, no one needs to worry about trading for a pitching upgrade or a decent third baseman, because it might upgrade them from 70 wins to 80.

[tigers527]

Yes, it would be that absurd. First, if you're going to play Logan anywhere, it would be in CF. Second, yes, there is a serious downgrade from Monroe to Logan. What did he hit in Spring Training? Under .100?

A mediocre outfield defensively doesn't make up for a bad outfield offensively. If you go to battle with the outfield you suggest, no one needs to worry about trading for a pitching upgrade or a decent third baseman, because it might upgrade them from 70 wins to 80.

Hold on a minute here fellow? Yes Logan is very surely not the offensive preformer that Monroe is. However, most of Monroes RBI come in meaningless times, either when the Tigers are so far behind they dont matter or when they're well ahead (ok with "rollercoaster" Jones closing they all matter).

You have seen the RBI totals of the rival ChiSOX OF? I bet an OF of Logan, Ordonez, and Granderson would out perform the CWS OF, in terms of RBI. Not even I was suggesting that, however, I wanted Nook back for the 4th outfielder. You might be right Logan in CF...for now, however, you leave Granderson in CF for 2 reasons; 1. He's a centerfielder on both sides of the plate offensive and defensive. Plus he is the CF for the forseeable future. 2. if Logan is the parttime guy you don't want to move your full time guy.

Besides Logan is so very fast...I remember last year he walked. Stole 2nd the throw went to center, he scored. No other team has that.

The outfield I suggest would be a plus outfield, the one we have is mediocre.

[serumgard]

Hold on a minute here fellow? Yes Logan is very surely not the offensive preformer that Monroe is. However, most of Monroes RBI come in meaningless times, either when the Tigers are so far behind they dont matter or when they're well ahead (ok with "rollercoaster" Jones closing they all matter).

You have seen the RBI totals of the rival ChiSOX OF? I bet an OF of Logan, Ordonez, and Granderson would out perform the CWS OF, in terms of RBI. Not even I was suggesting that, however, I wanted Nook back for the 4th outfielder. You might be right Logan in CF...for now, however, you leave Granderson in CF for 2 reasons; 1. He's a centerfielder on both sides of the plate offensive and defensive. Plus he is the CF for the forseeable future. 2. if Logan is the parttime guy you don't want to move your full time guy.

Besides Logan is so very fast...I remember last year he walked. Stole 2nd the throw went to center, he scored. No other team has that.

The outfield I suggest would be a plus outfield, the one we have is mediocre.
Sorry, I just don't agree that putting Logan in the outfield is an upgrade. You might be able to argue for Marcus Thames, but Nook Logan is in the minor leagues for a reason. It's not that he needs seasoning or is an up-and-coming prospect. He's just not very good.

[tigers527]

Sorry, I just don't agree that putting Logan in the outfield is an upgrade. You might be able to argue for Marcus Thames, but Nook Logan is in the minor leagues for a reason. It's not that he needs seasoning or is an up-and-coming prospect. He's just not very good.

I will agree, his stick is simply horrid. But the WhiteSox have shown that preventing runs in the OF is better then creating them. They got rid of 2 consistant 100 RBI guys in their OF and won a WS.

As too Marcus Thames....he's Craig Monroe with a goatee and about 10lbs., and a tad more clutch. Nook Logan as a late inning defensive replacement, and the once every 7 days starter would not be bad. Heck, we had Alexis Gomez and his .200 AVG. Why not, Logan and his .200 avg. heck he can at least do something when he gets on base. All this however is kind of moot as Logan broke his hand in the 1st or 2nd Toledo game. Mid June I would think we can rehash this debate.

[racosun]

Now leaving out the standard if everyones healthy, in particular Carlos Gullien. Heres how the Tigers can compete.

If Kenny Rodgers and Jeremy Bonderman (Bondermania running wild) can repeat their 1st half preformance from last year (both with double digit wins). There is no reason not to expect that from Rodgers whos always been a real good 1st half preformer. Perhaps Rodgers 2nd half slumps are due to the heat in Texas? If once during my life we can catch lightening in a bottle with a rookie starter (ok I was 3 in 76 with the Bird). If these things happen, not a huge strech, we should be right in there by the allstar break. Then maybe they wont know any better after that?

The offensive keys aside from the mentioned Gullien would come to Ordonez. I am not affraid of him being injured I just hope he comes close to his regular form. Aside from his knee recon years, he's always played over 100 games. Gullien however has rarely played more then 100 games in a season. They should of signed a 3rd baseman in the off season. Inge is a very solid platoon guy, and with the impending Gullien injury he could step into SS fairly easily (it was his college position). I think we'll miss Rondell White more and more as the year goes on. Especially if Dimitri Young keeps cooling the fans with his big swings and no contact.

Hopefully the rest of the bats can catch up to Shelton. The pitching staff will look better then people think. Ask yourself? Rodgers for Jason Johnson? Yes. Verlander for Ledezma or Douglass? Yes. Just hope the rest can at least be themselves and Robertson gets more run support. Lets hope Todd Jones can be what he was last year.

If all that happens and its not too far fetched maybe we can keep up with the Indians. I would not worry about the WhiteSox they cant go 23-5 (or something like that) in 1 run games 2 years in a row? Can they?

Man, were you SPOT ON or what? Nice post, great prediction.

[tigers527]

Man, were you SPOT ON or what? Nice post, great prediction.

Thanks man, I was going to notice for myself, but I thought better of it. I didn't want to be all full of myself. I guess, with hindsight I would have to say Inge is preforming better then I would of thought. His D has really been a pleasant surprise, while his bat isn't going to make people forget the better 1/3 of the leagues 3rd sackers, is still getting the RBI and HR production from that position.

Although, my fearing th Indians was a little bit off. Not to mention Thames has made me say Rondell who?

[racosun]

It's okay to toot your own horn every now and then, especially when a prediction is that correct. But, of course, modesty is nice too.

Yeah, Thames has filled in great for both the absense of Rondell White (the Twins are saying "Rondell Who?" as well) and the injury to Craig Monroe. He's also made the Tigers front office think twice about acquiring a different guy for that position, although he's not in the clear yet. Marcus obviously has a major league bat, but his defense needs some work. Andy Van Slyke has been pure quality for the defensive aspects of the outfield, and you can be sure that he's working with Thames alot. He could very well be the answer to the questions we had about that position coming into the season, and just might bump his good friend Craig Monroe from the starting gig. It would certainly be the best option to stick with those two guys in the LF spot instead of spending a ton of money and giving up a few top prospects to acquire someone else like Abreau or Soriano. If I were DD, I'd look at third base as the spot to plug a top-notch slugger. Like you, I'm pleasantly surprised at Inge's defense at the position, but that BA is terrible. At least Thames could flirt with .300, and he'll give you just as much power. Frankly, I think we should stand pat at the trading deadline, as I truly believe that this current squad is good enough to get us to where we need to go this season. Unless, of course, we can somehow get a Miguel Cabrera or Hank Blalock, which is most likely too expensive.

[tigers527]

If I were DD, I'd look at third base as the spot to plug a top-notch slugger. Like you, I'm pleasantly surprised at Inge's defense at the position, but that BA is terrible.

Unless, of course, we can somehow get a Miguel Cabrera or Hank Blalock, which is most likely too expensive.

I think Inges OBP kind of makes up for his horrid AVG., and his power numbers are right where you would like them. As to his D, he had the BBT (baseball tonight) guys renaming the web gems the Inge gems last week. Wasn't it Cabrera the fellow that gave up the hit to Paul Kornerko last night? I even hear that they are talking of moving him to 1B as he is getting to big and slow?

I like the team as it is, at least starter wise. I would not mind seeing the leftie bat, and a better defensive OF (for late innings replacement). Perhaps, DY and Nook? <shrugs> Nook is stinking it up on the Hens, and who knows what is going to happen with DY. In their best times though those 2 would be a nice fit.

Time will tell.

[racosun]

I think Inges OBP kind of makes up for his horrid AVG., and his power numbers are right where you would like them. As to his D, he had the BBT (baseball tonight) guys renaming the web gems the Inge gems last week. Wasn't it Cabrera the fellow that gave up the hit to Paul Kornerko last night? I even hear that they are talking of moving him to 1B as he is getting to big and slow?

I like the team as it is, at least starter wise. I would not mind seeing the leftie bat, and a better defensive OF (for late innings replacement). Perhaps, DY and Nook? <shrugs> Nook is stinking it up on the Hens, and who knows what is going to happen with DY. In their best times though those 2 would be a nice fit.

Time will tell.

Inge isn't terrible. I just think his position is the weakest link on the team. The D is fun to watch, I love that arm he's got, but I'm the kind of guy who wants pure mashers at the corner positions. Yeah, Cabrera is the one who had a Konerko groundout zoom right by him, but he was playing the line tight. Maybe a coach told him to play there. He's not as good defensively as Inge is, and may never be, but his bat is pretty close to Albert Pujols quality. This is his first year at third base, and I expect he'd improve over time. But getting him is a longshot. He makes less than $500K, is only 23 or 24, and is a three-time All-Star and a world champion. He'd cost at least Verlander, and probably Zumaya or a few other top prospects. I think Verlander and Bonderman are the two hurlers we build a dynasty around, and giving up either for any hitter is just too much.

I don't think Da Meat Hook is very good at all at playing LF, although he has made some very nifty catches a time or two. I'd only want him playing out there if he was on fire at the plate. Nook probably isn't an option for the big club. He's really regressed after coming back from injury. I like our chances with the guys we currently have, I don't think any trade at all is called for.

[tigers527]

Inge isn't terrible. I just think his position is the weakest link on the team. The D is fun to watch, I love that arm he's got, but I'm the kind of guy who wants pure mashers at the corner positions. Yeah, Cabrera is the one who had a Konerko groundout zoom right by him, but he was playing the line tight. Maybe a coach told him to play there. He's not as good defensively as Inge is, and may never be, but his bat is pretty close to Albert Pujols quality. This is his first year at third base, and I expect he'd improve over time. But getting him is a longshot. He makes less than $500K, is only 23 or 24, and is a three-time All-Star and a world champion. He'd cost at least Verlander, and probably Zumaya or a few other top prospects. I think Verlander and Bonderman are the two hurlers we build a dynasty around, and giving up either for any hitter is just too much.

I don't think Da Meat Hook is very good at all at playing LF, although he has made some very nifty catches a time or two. I'd only want him playing out there if he was on fire at the plate. Nook probably isn't an option for the big club. He's really regressed after coming back from injury. I like our chances with the guys we currently have, I don't think any trade at all is called for.

Oh well, since there only seems to be about a 1/2 dozen of more less the same people posting. I suppose the 3B vs LF argument we had earlier in the year isn't sometihng to rehash?

However, what I was suggesting was DY and Nook at their best. The key being "at their best" then from my view we'd be set. In no way am I suggesting that DY be allowed to field a position, just looking for the leftie DH/PH from time to time. Now Nook, although a hot mess batting, I would not mind seeing him out there as a 7th inning or later defensive replacement, and occaisional pinch runner?

Although, the bullpen has been a little disturbing of late. Heck, when Todd Jones has been the best option lately you know something isn't going to plan. I guess, it just makes all us screaming for Joness' head a little hoof in mouth syndrome huh?

[serumgard]

Tigers527, great call on the prediction for the year. Clearly, I was overly harsh at the beginning of the season and you should disregard my arrogance because it's obvious I'm an idiot.

Personally, I'd like either Blalock or Cabrera. The problem is that neither of them are on the block and both of them would cost way more than I'd be willing to see the Tigers give up. A great deal of the players that have been talked about would require the team to give up Verlander and/or Zumaya and I think that would be a huge mistake. I think if the team is going to make any move it will be for a smaller name (i.e., someone along the caliber of Aubrey Huff), and if they do anything to screw up the young nucleus of this team it will bite them in the rear.

[tigers527]

Tigers527, great call on the prediction for the year. Clearly, I was overly harsh at the beginning of the season and you should disregard my arrogance because it's obvious I'm an idiot.

Personally, I'd like either Blalock or Cabrera. The problem is that neither of them are on the block and both of them would cost way more than I'd be willing to see the Tigers give up. A great deal of the players that have been talked about would require the team to give up Verlander and/or Zumaya and I think that would be a huge mistake. I think if the team is going to make any move it will be for a smaller name (i.e., someone along the caliber of Aubrey Huff), and if they do anything to screw up the young nucleus of this team it will bite them in the rear.

Right now I am not all that concerned with 3B. Inge has been a very pleasent surprise in the field. I did not expect him to become such an asset in the field so quickly. Aside from his less then stellar avg. his power numbers are respectable enough for the position.

The place I think we'd be well served to get better at has been DH of late or LF depending on if Monroe gets healthy enough to be in the field. Thames is a solid DH thus far. I question rather either he or Monroe is solid enough of a LF defender to not make a move. I would not like to see them lose any of their pitchers though. I guess, that would be asking too much. If I had to pick one guy I like the idea of Abreu, better then the other options.

As to your begining statement, idiot? I would not go so far. In my opinion we are all knuckleheads, except for the handful of people on here that actually get paid to think about this stuff (they are salaried knuckleheads).

[serumgard]

Right now I am not all that concerned with 3B. Inge has been a very pleasent surprise in the field. I did not expect him to become such an asset in the field so quickly. Aside from his less then stellar avg. his power numbers are respectable enough for the position.

The place I think we'd be well served to get better at has been DH of late or LF depending on if Monroe gets healthy enough to be in the field. Thames is a solid DH thus far. I question rather either he or Monroe is solid enough of a LF defender to not make a move. I would not like to see them lose any of their pitchers though. I guess, that would be asking too much. If I had to pick one guy I like the idea of Abreu, better then the other options.

As to your begining statement, idiot? I would not go so far. In my opinion we are all knuckleheads, except for the handful of people on here that actually get paid to think about this stuff (they are salaried knuckleheads).
I would love to acquire Abreu. I think it would be a great addition to the lineup and the field. The question is whether or not Ordonez would be willing to essentially become a full-time DH. I would have no problem making a deal that would send Thames or Monroe and one of the 2nd tier pitching prospects (Minor or Tata) to Philly for Abreu. You'd put Abreu in RF, Monroe/Thames in LF, Ordonez at DH (or, push comes to shove, you could slide Ordonez to LF and keep Monroe as the DH if he's not available for the field).

Obviously it would be necessary for Maroth to be back if Miner would be a piece of the deal.

Interesting note today. Apparently the Tigers turned down a trade for Soriano because the Nationals asked for Cameron Maybin. I don't necessarily agree with the strategy, as you typically have to give something to get something.

[2Chance]

originally posted by serumgard
....I don't necessarily agree with the strategy, as you typically have to give something to get something.
Remember that you're dealing with Jim Bowden, and giving up nothing to get something IS his strategy.

Sounds like the Philly deal is closer to a reality than that one was, which is okay with me because I've never liked Soriano's makeup.

[tigers527]

I would love to acquire Abreu. I think it would be a great addition to the lineup and the field. The question is whether or not Ordonez would be willing to essentially become a full-time DH. I would have no problem making a deal that would send Thames or Monroe and one of the 2nd tier pitching prospects (Minor or Tata) to Philly for Abreu. You'd put Abreu in RF, Monroe/Thames in LF, Ordonez at DH (or, push comes to shove, you could slide Ordonez to LF and keep Monroe as the DH if he's not available for the field).

Obviously it would be necessary for Maroth to be back if Miner would be a piece of the deal.

Interesting note today. Apparently the Tigers turned down a trade for Soriano because the Nationals asked for Cameron Maybin. I don't necessarily agree with the strategy, as you typically have to give something to get something.

I don't think the issue would be that big of a deal. The OF would be Ordonez and Abreu in the corners and Granderson in CF. IMO if I were scouting the Tigers OF with the 1-8 scale those scout guys use for position players. I would grade out the Tigers OF like this...
Granderson 6 range, 4.5 arm, 7 fielding (just cause of the NO ERRORS in his career)
Ordonez 4 range, 5.5 arm, 5 fielding
Monroe 5 range, 3 arm, 3.5 fielding
Thames 4 range, ? arm, 4 fielding

I don't know if you believe my numbers, but consider almost every time Alexis Gomez comes in as a late inning defensive replacement he's usually in LF (90% plus). In fairness Monroe has a strong arm, it is just not at all accurate.

Now not being a real follower of the National league I am not sure where Abreu grades, but I do know he is fast. Now whichever of either Ordonez or Abreu has the better arm is the RFer. Ideally I would like the Tigers keep Thames and he'd be the DH. IMO

[Mariano_Rivera]

:clapping This has to be a thread for the ages :laugh

[tigers527]

:clapping This has to be a thread for the ages :laugh

Hey, I had it pretty good in early April, when I purposed how the Tigers could contend...Ok I was way off on the Indians, but hey <shrugs>...I guess I should ask you to clarify, what do you mean thread for the ages? I mean, as I am reading it seems like it is meant to be sarcastic? I guess I could be reading it wrong?

[Mariano_Rivera]

Hey, I had it pretty good in early April, when I purposed how the Tigers could contend...Ok I was way off on the Indians, but hey <shrugs>...I guess I should ask you to clarify, what do you mean thread for the ages? I mean, as I am reading it seems like it is meant to be sarcastic? I guess I could be reading it wrong?
I just mean that this thread is going to be remembered for quite a while.

[tigers527]

Now leaving out the standard if everyones healthy, in particular Carlos Gullien. Heres how the Tigers can compete.

If Kenny Rodgers and Jeremy Bonderman (Bondermania running wild) can repeat their 1st half preformance from last year (both with double digit wins). There is no reason not to expect that from Rodgers whos always been a real good 1st half preformer. Perhaps Rodgers 2nd half slumps are due to the heat in Texas?

Ok aside from my horrid misspelling of Rogers on 4-14-06. I would say I AM THE MADAM CLOE of BBF, only without the investigations and the shutting down of my infomercials. In Kenny ROGERS last 5 starts... 0.98 ERA, I guess the slumps in the second half were because of the heat, or maybe a dinky ballpark....either way I called it.....HORRAY ME!!!!!

[tigers527]

Now leaving out the standard if everyones healthy, in particular Carlos Gullien. Heres how the Tigers can compete.

If Kenny Rodgers and Jeremy Bonderman (Bondermania running wild) can repeat their 1st half preformance from last year (both with double digit wins). There is no reason not to expect that from Rodgers whos always been a real good 1st half preformer. Perhaps Rodgers 2nd half slumps are due to the heat in Texas? If once during my life we can catch lightening in a bottle with a rookie starter (ok I was 3 in 76 with the Bird). If these things happen, not a huge strech, we should be right in there by the allstar break. Then maybe they wont know any better after that?

The offensive keys aside from the mentioned Gullien would come to Ordonez. I am not affraid of him being injured I just hope he comes close to his regular form. Aside from his knee recon years, he's always played over 100 games. Gullien however has rarely played more then 100 games in a season. They should of signed a 3rd baseman in the off season. Inge is a very solid platoon guy, and with the impending Gullien injury he could step into SS fairly easily (it was his college position). I think we'll miss Rondell White more and more as the year goes on. Especially if Dimitri Young keeps cooling the fans with his big swings and no contact.

Hopefully the rest of the bats can catch up to Shelton. The pitching staff will look better then people think. Ask yourself? Rodgers for Jason Johnson? Yes. Verlander for Ledezma or Douglass? Yes. Just hope the rest can at least be themselves and Robertson gets more run support. Lets hope Todd Jones can be what he was last year.

If all that happens and its not too far fetched maybe we can keep up with the Indians. I would not worry about the WhiteSox they cant go 23-5 (or something like that) in 1 run games 2 years in a row? Can they?

WOW!!!!! I rock, that said, overall I am right, granted no ones been scared of the Indians since the Sox circa 9-15-05. But the TIGERS MISS RONDELL WHITE!!!! after the start, I was like what was I thinking? But recently, when the Tigers have a must win game (10-01)....their DH batted ninth and went 0-3, no offense, Omar Infante (granted, Stairs PH for you in the 8th and hit the tying homer). Not to go into what the Tigers need now, there will be plenty of time for that after the Tigers win the WS, but we miss Rondell more then I thought (at one time it seemed folly).

[serumgard]

WOW!!!!! I rock, that said, overall I am right, granted no ones been scared of the Indians since the Sox circa 9-15-05. But the TIGERS MISS RONDELL WHITE!!!! after the start, I was like what was I thinking? But recently, when the Tigers have a must win game (10-01)....their DH batted ninth and went 0-3, no offense, Omar Infante (granted, Stairs PH for you in the 8th and hit the tying homer). Not to go into what the Tigers need now, there will be plenty of time for that after the Tigers win the WS, but we miss Rondell more then I thought (at one time it seemed folly).
I don't necessarily think they miss White all that much - he wasn't exactly a world-beater in Minnesota this year. And who knew Dmitri was going to have so many problems this year?

The only problem I had with this season was acquiring (and then actually playing) Neifi Perez. It was a knee-jerk reaction to one error that Omar Infante made shortly after Placido's injury that didn't need to happen. Omar could've handled the duties while Placido was out and he was a far superior hitter.

I give you credit...I thought you were crazy when you suggested the Tigers could contend, but you pretty much hit it spot on. I have problems having any great regrets about this season, even as close as the team came to the division, because the team far exceeded anything anyone expected out of them. Honestly, if you were to tell me the Tigers would win 95 games and be the Wild Card back in March, I would've been thrilled.

[OldEnglishD]

WOW!!!!! I rock,

K, enough horn tooting ;) lol.

That said ... I don't really see this as an amazing "prediction" thread. I think a prediction is something like ... "The Tigers WILL do such and such."

I don't think anything was written about the offense that came to be true. (While Mags was effective - I wouldn't call him the "key".) Brandon Inge is a fine 3B, and I don't think we miss Rondell at all.

And from what I read in the initial "prediction" it was just some basic notes that could be said about any team, any year.

.... For example ....

Here's how the <insert team> can compete this year. The <insert team> key guys stay healthy, and their pitchers pitch like they did in <insert time of success for said pitchers>. It'd also be great if we get some strong pitching from our young pitcher.

To add ... If all that happens - we'll keep up with the Indians.

[OldEnglishD]

I would suggest your new buddy Craig Monroe would be worse. He is not clutch at all. Like the blind squirrel Inge does find a nut from time to time in clutch situations. Monroe seems to me to never tie or win the game. He's put a handful of games away, and made a few scores respectable instead of the Tigers getting blown out. Other then that I can't say hes tied or won many games to my memory. Whereas Inge has, recently even.

And wow.. Craig Monroe - not clutch ?

[tigers527]

And wow.. Craig Monroe - not clutch ?

Craig did do well through the late summer months (as seems to be his way?). Lets hope he continues, through the playoffs :D :gt

I still can kind of make an arguement about missing Rondell. Yes, he did not have a typical Rondell season with the Twins, but did pick it up in the second 1/2. With what happened to the Tigers DH position toward the end of this year, and even a little in the playoffs thus far......Infante batting 9th in the DH spot, and Thames in the 8th spot (although, his streaky self picked a fine time to pick it up....as it were). Earlier in the season, we all know what happened with Young, and Shelton (platooning the DH/1B). Now, I would not mind seeing a whole season of Thames at the spot. It just seems almost kind of NL to have a DH batting 7th-9th, in the order. When so many of the Tigers peers in the AL have a HUGE bat in the middle of the line up, DHing.

[tigers527]

I don't think anything was written about the offense that came to be true. (While Mags was effective - I wouldn't call him the "key".) Brandon Inge is a fine 3B, and I don't think we miss Rondell at all.

I adressed White a post ago. But Mags not key :crazy Where do you think the Tigers would of got 25 HR and 104 RBI from? Nook Logan, Alexis Gomez and Marcus Thames platoon in RF???:crazy I just was saying in April, I was not worried about Mags getting hurt, and returning to form. Lots of Detroit media listed Mags health as a key issue, I was saying I was not worried.

And from what I read in the initial "prediction" it was just some basic notes that could be said about any team, any year.

.... For example ....

Here's how the <insert team> can compete this year. The <insert team> key guys stay healthy, and their pitchers pitch like they did in <insert time of success for said pitchers>. It'd also be great if we get some strong pitching from our young pitcher.

To add ... If all that happens - we'll keep up with the Indians.

tochee on the Indians...I blew that one. Although, they had a scary August. The thing about what you say is true...insert health issue guy, starter guy, and a few other guys here and there, and you can make the same prediction about any team. Well, I called out the fellows, and Verlander did indeed be a little "lightening in the bottle". Rogers did have a good second half, I still think it is the weather.

And if I did this with anyother teams, I would have been WRONG on most all of them. For example, how the Royals can contend in 2007....They can do it, if they get demoted to the International League. Now, if that happens and the Royals can beat out the Mudhens....then I truely would be a genius.

Overview, I am impressed with Guillen. He battled through leg problems almost all season. From soreness lingering from the knee recon early season, to later season hamstring problems. The one part of the "prediction" I ended up being entirely wrong about was Guillen having a stint on the DL. He "cowboyed up" as they say?

[tigers527]

Ignoring the final score predictions....take a look at this? From the NYY forum post season thread. I will highlight the things that happened, that seemd to be right.

Sorry, to interupt the Yankee line up minutia.....But as a huge Tigers honk, and a season ticket holder. Maybe, I can point out a few things that although, have not been happening for those beloved Tigers lately, should cause some concern if they happen, starting tomorrow.

As has been stated by many, when the playoffs start the Umps strike zone shrinks...leaving the pitchers to rely on their "stuff".

1. Wang v Robertson....Nate being the "number 1" starter should tell you something about him, although his record does not show well in relation to Wang, he is the AL version of Roger Clemens (BTW he beat Clemens head to head 2-0) in regards to run support. So, if the Tigers can get to Wang, which by my guess would involve some miracle of plate discpline from the Tigers or luck. Nate could be a tough one to beat. Robertson also makes innings look messy at times, but induces plenty of double plays, which cleans them up. With the Yanks less then stellar preformance v Lefties, this could be our shot, to take one of the two? To the opening statement, while not a power pitcher by any means Robertson throws in the low to mid nineties and has a good slider, not really finesse.

Overall...Tigers, HOLD UP ON THE SINKER, the Ump will likely call it a ball. Then Wang will have to "grove" one, smash it and give Nate a lead for once, then maybe? Tigers 1-0, in a 3 to 1 game?

2. Verlander v Mussina....Ok, Mussina freaking owns the Tigers, so unless there is a "Randy Johnson" exploding pigeon moment, except this pigeons beak flies off and hit Mussina in the eye, I would doubt there is much to look out for on this one. However, if in the early innings Verlander can throw an offspeed pitch for a called strike. In particular his knucklecurve, watch out (I've seen plenty of MLBers buckle at a few called strikes, granted it's been a few months, but he also has not pitched in a week and a half). Besides this would not be the first time Ivan Rodriguez and a rookie pitcher has beaten the Yanks.

Overall, with no rust for Verlander, it might be a tight game, but that would surprise me...series tied 1-1, score, Yanks 7 Tigers 2

3. Bonderman v Johnson...Bonderman was lights out until his no hitter against the Twins (7/30th ish) was broke up in the 8th, with a couple of Metrodome BS hits and a few errors that followed (which brought us Sean Casey).....eventually, gave him a loss. He still wound up being the first Tiger since Morris to record over 200Ks. Lately, you folks should root for an early inning lead for the Tigers, in particular a big one. If the Tigers score 5-7 runs by the third, for a 5-7 to 0-1 lead...Bonderman is done. Bonderman can lose a game 1-0 or win the same game, but give him 6 runs and he is a mess. With Johnson and his back, and Bonderman and his who knows, if he can hold a lead built on a crip?


Overall, either the Tigers win 2-0 or the Yankees win 12-9....Since I am rooting for the Tigers...series Tigers 2-1

4. Rogers v Liddle/Wright....I've seen both suggested as starters in game 4? If Rogers doesn't get a close called strike early, it is going to be a mess, and I doubt on the Tigers bats best day, they'd be able to keep up with the Yankees. Rogers lives on the "edges" of the plate, without the called strike against such a patient team that the Yanks are, he's done.....Yankees 7-3 series tied 2-2.

5. Robertson/Verlander v Wang/Mussina...we've been through them all, so toss it in the hopper and see what happens...Tigers 15-0 Tigers win 3-2...and go on to face the As. (ok some home cooking,... but?)

Other things to watch for....Jamie Walker, will make Jason Giambi look like he should be playing little league, at least once in the series. Joel Zumaya, will paint the lower outside corner with a 100+mph fastball, and mostly be unhittable. For all people think about Todd Jones, he will continue to pitch, with mostly the principal that major leaguers make outs 7 out of 10 times, and everyone scratching their head....how'd he do it?

Everything said is a best case senerio, for the Tigers....still those are things to look for. If you see 1/2 of them (particularly the pigeon beak in Mussinas' eye) watch out for those motor city kitties.

I wont even talk about the line up...as that is silly, but watch out for Carlos Guillen.

Ok, I had things wrong. Rogers got that close strike, and did well. Bonderman held a big lead (his first since before August). Robertson didn't get the GIDP to end those rougher innings. Verlander did not have any rust. But in the over view if you see 1/2 of them watch out for the motor city kitties. And how about the Guillen (he would of been the series MVP would they award one for the ALDS, but they don't)....the only guy I mentioned....I'd say I was 1 for 1 on that one.

[OldEnglishD]

tochee on the Indians...I blew that one. Although, they had a scary August. The thing about what you say is true...insert health issue guy, starter guy, and a few other guys here and there, and you can make the same prediction about any team. Well, I called out the fellows, and Verlander did indeed be a little "lightening in the bottle". Rogers did have a good second half, I still think it is the weather.

Not really blown away that you called out the fellas. You just named the guys on the team. Like I said, that formula would work for any team. Just switch the names of :

Rogers, Bonderman, Ordonez, and "we can catch lightening in a bottle with a rookie starter" (OK no name change neccessary for Verlander cuz he wasn't named)

to the names of any other teams 2 top starters, best hitter - toss in the rookie starter and good health, and wallah - you have a contender.


And if I did this with anyother teams, I would have been WRONG on most all of them. For example, how the Royals can contend in 2007....They can do it, if they get demoted to the International League. Now, if that happens and the Royals can beat out the Mudhens....then I truely would be a genius.

No, you wouldn't have been wrong. You didn't say they would do those things. You only said "IF". IMO, IF Redman pitched like he did in 2003, Elarton pitched like he did in 2000, Zach Grienke caught lightning in a bottle, and Sweeney returned to all-star form ... well then I'd bet that the Royals would have, how'd you say it ... "been right in there at the all-star break, and maybe wouldn't know better after that"


I'm just saying, I don't think it was even a "prediction". To me, a prediction is something you could be held accountable for if it didn't come true. Yours was just an "if" scenario. If none of it happened, and the Tigers lost 100 games, no one could've said "na, na - you were wrong" - cuz you didn't say those things would happen ... you just said if they did, the Tigers would contend.

[tigers527]

I see your point...but mine was, this was the only team I did this for.....And the last time I actually felt the Tigers could of contended was something like the 1999-2000 (give or take a few years)....and the only way I felt that could happen is if every player on the team preformed better or equal to their best season of their MLB careers....needless to say that did not happen back then.

Anyway, Mod....could you unsticky this thread, as it is not really relavant anymore?