Minor leagues before 1910

[Frank_reilly]

would like to find out where can i locate leagues that either played before 1910, or leagues that planned to play and never did?

[billyed]

The Encyclopedia of Minor League Baseball published in 1997 is the best starting point for leagues that actually played. It's still available through Amazon, but expensive ($184.00).

As for leagues that never had their averages published see Carlos Bauer's website the Minor League Researcher at:

http://minorleagueresearcher.blogspot.com/

Check the Feburary and March 2006 archives, Carlos has listed hundreds of leagues whose averages never appeared in the Baseball Guides - many before 1910.

I recently compiled the Intermountain League of 1901 and 1902 which had never been done before. So there are many of us working on completing the history of minor league baseball - and we still have a long way to go!!

:atthepc

[Frank_reilly]

to billyed

thanks but Carlos didnt list too many leagues that played before 1910. also what teams played in the Intermountain league (1902).

to all others

here is the list of leagues i have that would like to know if they played or not. if played or not would like to know or comfirm what teams played in theses leagues. they are

Arkansas State leagues - 1897
Canadian League - 1886 and 1896 to 1897
Central New Jersey League - 1892
Central New York League -1888
Central Pennsuylvania Leagues - 1896 to 1898
Connecticut State League - 1884 to 1885
Colorado State League - 1885 to 1899
Central League - 1897
Eastern Association - 1881 (found information that this league played but with what cities played)
Eastern International League -1888, 1895
Eastern Iowa League - 1895
Hudson River League - 1888
Illinois-Iowa League - 1890 to 1892
Indiana State League - 1888 to 1900
Interstate League - 1885
Maine State League - 1897
Massachusetts State league - 1885
Kansas State League - 1887 to 1895
Kentucky-Indiana League - 1896
Middle States League - 1889
Montana State League - 1892 to 1920's
Naugatuck Valley League - 1898
Nebraksa State League - 1892
New Brunswick League - 1890
New Jersey State League - 1892
New England Inter-state - 1888
New Hampshire State League - 1886
Northeastern League - 1887
Northwest League - 1879 to 1891 (found information that this leauge played but need what cities played)
Ohio-Michigan League - 1893
Ohio State League - 1884
Ohio-West Virginia league - 1897
Pacific Interstate League - 1891
Pacific States Legaue - 1898
Pennsylvania State Association - 1886 to 1887
Pennsylvania State League - 1890, 1902, 1916
Southern Negro League - 1920
Upper Peninsula League - 1890 to 1895
Virginia League - 1885 to 1886
Western Inter-State League - 1890, 1895
here are a few more leagues

Alabama- Mississippi League - 1936
Anthracite League - 1928
Arkansas - Texas League 1905
Atlantic League - 1907 to 1908
Black Hills League - 1891 to 1892
Cumberland Valley League - 1895 to 1896
Empire League 1905 to 1908
ILIP (All black League) unknown date
Indiana-Illinois League - 1899, 1899
Indiana-Ohio League - 1907
Iowa State League - 1912
Midwest League - 1891
Mountain League - 1887
New England League - 1877 to 1878 (found information that this league played, just need what cities played)
New Hampshire League - 1907
New York State League - 1888
New Pacific League - 1898
Northern Maine League - 1909
Northern Michigan League - 1909
Northern New York League - 1902
Old Dominion League - 1930
Pacfic National League - 1905
Ohio Valley League - 1891
Pennsylvania - West Virginia League - 1914
Southern New Hampshire League - 1907
Tennessee -Alabama League - 1907
Vermont State League - 1907
West Arkansas League - 1924
Western League - 1889
West Texas League - 1905

thanks for any information on these Leagues






:atthepc

[billyed]

Hi Frank:

The Intermountain League of 1901 and 1902 (sometimes referred to as the Utah State League) consisted of these teams -

1901: Ogden, Salt Lake, Park City, and Railway-Lagoon (this team played near Salt Lake).

1902: Ogden, Salt Lake, Lagoon, and Logan.

Carlos has published my record of the 1901 season and it can be found on his site.

As for the other leagues you've asked about - I saw quite a number of those leagues listed by Carlos. I count 8 pages and approximately 300 leagues in the list prior to 1910. It's true that Carlos himself did not compile all the leagues he has cited, but each citation also includes the author/compiler's name.

:atthepc

[TonyK]

to billyed

thanks but Carlos didnt list too many leagues that played before 1910. also what teams played in the Intermountain league (1902).

to all others

here is the list of leagues i have that would like to know if they played or not. if played or not would like to know or comfirm what teams played in theses leagues. they are

Arkansas State leagues - 1897
Canadian League - 1886 and 1896 to 1897
Central New Jersey League - 1892
Central New York League -1888
Central Pennsuylvania Leagues - 1896 to 1898
Connecticut State League - 1884 to 1885
Colorado State League - 1885 to 1899
Central League - 1897
Eastern Association - 1881 (found information that this league played but with what cities played)
Eastern International League -1888, 1895
Eastern Iowa League - 1895
Hudson River League - 1888
Illinois-Iowa League - 1890 to 1892
Indiana State League - 1888 to 1900
Interstate League - 1885
Maine State League - 1897
Massachusetts State league - 1885
Kansas State League - 1887 to 1895
Kentucky-Indiana League - 1896
Middle States League - 1889
Montana State League - 1892 to 1920's
Naugatuck Valley League - 1898
Nebraksa State League - 1892
New Brunswick League - 1890
New Jersey State League - 1892
New England Inter-state - 1888
New Hampshire State League - 1886
Northeastern League - 1887
Northwest League - 1879 to 1891 (found information that this leauge played but need what cities played)
Ohio-Michigan League - 1893
Ohio State League - 1884
Ohio-West Virginia league - 1897
Pacific Interstate League - 1891
Pacific States Legaue - 1898
Pennsylvania State Association - 1886 to 1887
Pennsylvania State League - 1890, 1902, 1916
Southern Negro League - 1920
Upper Peninsula League - 1890 to 1895
Virginia League - 1885 to 1886
Western Inter-State League - 1890, 1895
here are a few more leagues

Alabama- Mississippi League - 1936
Anthracite League - 1928
Arkansas - Texas League 1905
Atlantic League - 1907 to 1908
Black Hills League - 1891 to 1892
Cumberland Valley League - 1895 to 1896
Empire League 1905 to 1908
ILIP (All black League) unknown date
Indiana-Illinois League - 1899, 1899
Indiana-Ohio League - 1907
Iowa State League - 1912
Midwest League - 1891
Mountain League - 1887
New England League - 1877 to 1878 (found information that this league played, just need what cities played)
New Hampshire League - 1907
New York State League - 1888
New Pacific League - 1898
Northern Maine League - 1909
Northern Michigan League - 1909
Northern New York League - 1902
Old Dominion League - 1930
Pacfic National League - 1905
Ohio Valley League - 1891
Pennsylvania - West Virginia League - 1914
Southern New Hampshire League - 1907
Tennessee -Alabama League - 1907
Vermont State League - 1907
West Arkansas League - 1924
Western League - 1889
West Texas League - 1905

thanks for any information on these Leagues






:atthepc

The 1888 Central NY League played and the 1888 NY State League did not. The Empire State League in NY played from 1905 to 1908, but don't confuse it with the Empire League from a different state.

Hope that helps you!

[Frank_reilly]

thanks tony for the info but do you know what cities played in those Leagues

[leshii]

The 1888 Central NY League played and the 1888 NY State League did not. The Empire State League in NY played from 1905 to 1908, but don't confuse it with the Empire League from a different state.

Hope that helps you!

I could be wrong, but I thought the Empire State League was a Georgia-based in league in the early 1910s.

[Frank_reilly]

yes the was a Empire State league based in Georgia and it played in 1913, the other Empire Baseball league (which I am looking for what cities played in this league) played in NY from 1905 to 1908.

[TonyK]

yes the was a Empire State league based in Georgia and it played in 1913, the other Empire Baseball league (which I am looking for what cities played in this league) played in NY from 1905 to 1908.

Over the weekend I'll find my notes at home on the 1886 Central NY, 1888 Central NY, and the 1905-08 Empire State League. Note that there were two Empire State Leagues in the US and a third league with a similar name. I am not sure what the other states were thinking since NY's nickname is the Empire State.

One of the Central NY Leagues had a total population in all of it's towns of only 31,000 I believe! Yet they supported the weekday games and Saturday games. It was common for fans to wait at the train station for their team to return from a big game. A band would play, fireworks might go off, and the team, the band, and the fans would march down the streets late at night singing and celebrating. They sure loved their teams back then!

[TonyK]

The 1897 Central PA League did play from 5/15 to 9/16. It was a Class F League and it's teams were from Williamsport, Lock Haven, Milton, Sunbury, Shamokin, Pottsville, and Bloomsburg.

There also was an 1896 Central PA League but I do not know much about it.

[Brian McKenna]

when did classifications start? - i thought it wasn't until the early 20th century and that was from A to D

[Frank_reilly]

Classification started in 1902:atthepc

[TonyK]

Classification started in 1902:atthepc

One of the misconceptions is Minor League Baseball didn't officially begin until 1902 or 1903 when the National Association was ratified to help protect minor league teams from being raided by the major leagues.

Classifications had been around well before that year. The 1897 Central PA League was a Class F League. The 1897 NY State League, for example, was a Class C League. Classes in the 19th Century began with Class A, usually the Eastern and Western Leagues, and moved down to Class F. There was no central governing body so chaos was the norm.

The main difference was the Team Salary Limit that was published in the Sporting News and Sporting Life. It was thought if the limit was $1,500 per month per team, then your league would have better players than a league with a team salary limit of only $1,000. Of course most teams ignored their limit by paying their top pitchers under the table. Newspapers were filled with indignant reporters complaints that their rivals were spending more than their limit to get better players.

[TonyK]

thanks tony for the info but do you know what cities played in those Leagues

Frank,

The towns in the 1886 Central NY League 6/8 to 9/11 were:

Canastota
Little Falls
Norwich
Oneida
Frankfort ( disbanded after 2 games)

The towns in the 1888 Central NY League 6/31 to 9/15 were:

Auburn
Canandaigua
Penn Yan
Seneca Falls
Waterloo

[Brian McKenna]

good info on 19th century classification concerning salary limits but was there actually a governing body or various other mechanisms in place to develop a universal classification system, for example:

if salary limits were haphazard, is that a reliable method?
how did things change on a yearly basis from 1877-1902?

i think it would be great to classify the leagues as such but can it be done through much of the 19th century

to my knowledge there is no set classification listings of minor leagues throughout the 19th century - you're stating it as a fact - would love to see a future work that helps establish the tiers

is this your system of rating minor leagues or is there actually a universally accepted classification system?

thanks for bringing the notion to my attention - hadn't been considering it

[Frank_reilly]

thanks Tony for the info

[TonyK]

good info on 19th century classification concerning salary limits but was there actually a governing body or various other mechanisms in place to develop a universal classification system, for example:

if salary limits were haphazard, is that a reliable method?
how did things change on a yearly basis from 1877-1902?

i think it would be great to classify the leagues as such but can it be done through much of the 19th century

to my knowledge there is no set classification listings of minor leagues throughout the 19th century - you're stating it as a fact - would love to see a future work that helps establish the tiers

is this your system of rating minor leagues or is there actually a universally accepted classification system?

thanks for bringing the notion to my attention - hadn't been considering it

BK: I'll try to address your questions with what I know and maybe someone else has more info. There was a governing body for the minors and they followed the spirit of capitalism. As a player got better and advanced up the ladder from low minors (Classes C through F) to high minors (Classes A and B), he deserved to be paid a higher salary. Minor league teams usually had 12 players around the late 1800's and the best leagues paid the highest monthly team salaries. A Class C league might only have a team salary limit of $700 for 12 players so most of the team earned $60 per month. Leagues actually decided what class they wanted to be in based on what the towns could afford to spend.

The first year I have with a classification is 1888 with the Southern League being a Class B league. Researchers know of another 75 minor leagues from 1889 to 1899 that were operating as Class A to Class F leagues. I believe the NA President Nick Young had to approve the leagues and they paid a league fee to the NA. Remember that the leagues and their teams were run as businesses with some of them incorporating and having a Board of Directors.

One league I am familiar with is the NY State League. It was a Class C league in 1898, and it's leaders voted in 1899 to move up to Class B to try and lure players away from the Class A Eastern League. The NYSL succeeded and it's pennant winner, Rome, defeated the Eastern League's winner in a series after the season ended. This defeat embarrassed the larger league.

If you are interested in this history then look at old Sp. News or Sp. Life's or local newspapers, and you will soon see in the spring what the salary limits were etc. As I said before, it was not unusual for a rabid fan with large pockets (a businessman or a doctor, for example) to pay the $150 monthly salary of a star pitcher for the good of the team. Of course his contract might say he was only earning $50 from the team so they stayed under the limit. Some minor league pitchers even made more than ML pitchers so they had little incentive to switch clubs.

[Brian McKenna]

good info thanks tony