McGriff HOF Uniform

[Go Bravos!!!#1]

Assuming Fred McGriff makes it into the Hall Of Fame, what team's uniform should he wear in?

[BasEbaLlKnoItAll]

Good question.

Braves or Jays I suppose. But idk, I have to think more about that one.

[RedSoxVT92]

Well his stats with each team reads as follows
( I may be off by a little bit on some because I had to count them up and compile them myself but im pretty sure there accurate)

.........................................G....AB.. ..H...2B.3B..HR..RBI..AVG..OBP...SLG
(5 seasons).............Toronto/578/1944/540/99/.8/125/305/.278/.404/.530/
(2 1/2 seasons)... San Deigo/388/1361/382/60/.6/..84/256/.280/.391/.519/
(4 1/2 seasons)......Atlanta/636/2388/700/132/5/130/446/.293/.371/.516/
(4 1/2 seasons)Tampa Bay/577/2074/603/102/1/.99./359/.291/.382/.484/
(1 1/2 seasons)...Chicago/195/.693/191/..34/4/..42/144/.276/.363/.518/
(1 season)...Los Angeles/..86/.297/74./.14./0/..13./.40/.249/.322/.428/

I would have to go with Atlanta assuming he does get in.

[Tigerfan1974]

Assuming Frad McGriff makes it into the Hall Of Fame, what team's uniform should he wear in?

Isn't that a pretty big presumption?
I didn't vote because I don't think he makes it!

Else, we could say, assuming Kurt Bevaqua, another well traveled player, makes it . . . . .

I am not saying that his multiple teams keeps him out, look at Gaylord.
Nor am I saying he is of the same stature as Bevaqua, Fred is obviously better.
I am just saying I don't think he makes it in, so I question speculating on his hat.
He could go with no logo, should he make it. Catfish did!

[KCGHOST]

I am not sure he will get in, but if he does I wouldn't be shocked to see no team logo on his hat or jersey.

[dgarza]

I went with the Jays, but it was hard to decide between the Blue Jays and the Padres. He seemed to do the best with those 2 teams on the whole.

[julusnc]

I will always think of "The Crime Dog" as a big slugger for the Blue Jays.

[dgarza]

I'm curious as to why there is no support for McGriff as a Padre. And why there is such a strong Brave support.

[RedSoxVT92]

I'm curious as to why there is no support for McGriff as a Padre. And why there is such a strong Brave support.

Probably because he wasnt with the Padres as long as Atlanta and all together he has better stats with the Braves. That also includes a WS ring and a NL penate with Atlanta. But his career is pretty spread out between teams so its tough to decide assuming he does get in which im not sure he will.

[chrismarullo]

The test I gave myself for this one was just close my eyes and think of McGriff and whatever uniform I saw him in that was the one. I had to go with the Braves.

[AlecBoy006]

Sounds like we have some huge Mcgriff fans. So, I pose to you what hat should he wear? My vote would go to the Padres.

[SamtheBravesFan]

Tough question. I have to say Blue Jay. Not long enough with the Pades.

[Los Bravos]

I have a bad feeling he's going to have trouble getting in. If and when, well...he did win a title in Atlanta.

[CROM]

i think hell get in eventually.. his stats are almost identical to willie mccoveys.. in 3 less season he has only 28 less HRs, 5 less RBIs, 200+ more hits.. OBP, SLG and OPS are almost identical.. i just wish he would have hit just 7 more HRs to break 500..
his cap would be a toss up between the jays and the braves i believe.. im leaning more toward the braves since he was a major factor in the braves winning the world series and also a pennant the following year..

[mwiggins]

i think hell get in eventually.. his stats are almost identical to willie mccoveys.. in 3 less season he has only 28 less HRs, 5 less RBIs, 200+ more hits.. OBP, SLG and OPS are almost identical.. i just wish he would have hit just 7 more HRs to break 500..
his cap would be a toss up between the jays and the braves i believe.. im leaning more toward the braves since he was a major factor in the braves winning the world series and also a pennant the following year..

His raw stats are almost identical to McCovey's, but Fred played in higher offensive leagues than the McCovey.

OPS+
McCovey - 148
McGriff - 134

Relative slugging:
McCovey - 1.33
McGriff - 1.22

Relative OBP:
McCovey - 1.15
McGriff - 1.12


McGriff has nearly the raw homerun total of McCovey, but McCovey lead the league in HR's 3 times, and was in the top 10 in HR's 10 times. Compared to McGriff who lead the league in HR's twice and was in the top 10 7 times.

And even with McGriff playing in a more HR friendly era, McCovey beats him in AB/HR - 15.73 to 17.76.

[machinehead11]

I think he should go in wearing that oversized Tom Emanski baseball academy hat.

[tearforamariner]

I think he needs to go in without a logo.

[steveironcity]

I think he should go in wearing that oversized Tom Emanski baseball academy hat.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g55/Vermigli/emanskiMCGRIFF.jpg

[Los Bravos]

:laugh Now that would get results.

[Edgartohof]

I think he needs to go in without a logo.

I'm actuall starting to lean towards thinking that too.

[AlecBoy006]

Maybe, while we are speaking of logos, should Bert Byleven ever go in, will he be logoless?

[tearforamariner]

Maybe, while we are speaking of logos, should Bert Byleven ever go in, will he be logoless?

No, I think Blyleven should go in as a Twin.

[AlecBoy006]

Maybe, since he works there, but, he played for many teams for a long time though.

[tearforamariner]

Maybe, since he works there, but, he played for many teams for a long time though.

True, however look at how his win totals are split:

Minnesota 149 W
Cleveland 48 W
Pittsburgh 34 W
California 33 W
Texas, 23 W

Now let's look at strikeouts:

Minnesota 2254 SO
Cleveland 584 SO
Pittsburgh 522 SO
Texas, 326 SO
California 270 SO

And for good measure, let's look at how his 60 Shutouts split up:

Minnesota 29 SHO
Texas, 11 SHO
Cleveland 10 SHO
Pittsburgh 6 SHO
California 0 SHO


I think it's clear he should go in as a Twin.

[Dalkowski110]

Blyleven with the Twins, McGriff with no team logo on his hat.

[tearforamariner]

Blyleven with the Twins, McGriff with no team logo on his hat.

This is what I'm saying. I think this is the way it needs to be. In 19 seasons, McGriff never spent more than 5 years with any team.

[AlecBoy006]

Well, TFAM- I must hand it to you about the Blyleven thing.


However, what is Catfish Hunter doing logoless on his hat?

[dgarza]

He should have a logoless cap with a bite taken out of it

[tearforamariner]

Well, TFAM- I must hand it to you about the Blyleven thing.


However, what is Catfish Hunter doing logoless on his hat?

Hunter was inducted back when players were allowed to choose. He couldn't decide if he wanted to be immortalized as an Athletic or as a Yankee. So the Hall just kept his hat without a logo.

[AlecBoy006]

Gotcha! Thanks.

[Cougar]

This is one of the fairly rare cases where I'd take the player's preference into consideration.

I'm guessing he'd want to represent his hometown, but that's just a guess.

[Seattle1]

Sounds like we have some huge Mcgriff fans. So, I pose to you what hat should he wear? My vote would go to the Padres.

I'm not even sure he's going to be elected to the Hall of Fame, personally.

[AlecBoy006]

493 homers= HOF

[Seattle1]

493 homers= HOF

Well, maybe...

[Rookie1914]

Blue Jays all the way.

[CTaka]

493 homers= HOF

If he didn't play during the "arena ball" era where offensive numbers are inflated, I'd agree with you. I don't see him as a slam dunk by any means. Personally I don't see him getting in without paying admission.

[538280]

If he didn't play during the "arena ball" era where offensive numbers are inflated, I'd agree with you. I don't see him as a slam dunk by any means. Personally I don't see him getting in without paying admission.

I don't get that. Yes, I do agree that it is ridiculous and somewhat ignorant to say 493 HRS=HOF. But looking at his real value in the context of his time it's hard for me to see how he's not in. He had a very long career, I don't think there's any way to say he's not good enough for career value, and he wasn't exactly a slouch hitter by HOF standards with a 134 OPS+. Early in his career, before 1994, he was a truly great historical hitter. His OPS+ through 1994 was 153, which is a great hitter. Sometimes I think with McGriff if he would have just took the last few years of quality play off his career many people would realize the true degree of his hitting excellence and elect him.

[Fuzzy Bear]

I would put him in as a Brave; he's probably remembered best as a Brave.

[AlecBoy006]

How could you say that is ridiculous Chris? How about we put you in the Hall of Fame with an I hate Alec cap on. Because you sure do hate what I have to say. 7 homers away from 500. That should be close enough I would think.

[ChrisLDuncan]

Well 3000 hits and 500 HRs are usually evident of sustianed greatness over a long period of time, which is what the HoF is looking for.

[538280]

How could you say that is ridiculous Chris? How about we put you in the Hall of Fame with an I hate Alec cap on. Because you sure do hate what I have to say. 7 homers away from 500. That should be close enough I would think.

I don't hate you. But saying anything just equals HOF is never a good path. You need to take into account the total contribution of the player in the context of his time and judge that. Not just look at one number and automatically say HOF.

[sds416]

I think he should go in wearing that oversized Tom Emanski baseball academy hat.

HAHAHHAHA! That really got my day off to a laughing start.

I don't think Fred will end up in Cooperstown. While the numbers are interesting, you just never got the feeling from watching him that you were watching a future hall of famer.

Is it my faulty memory at work, or did he have a couple of dust ups with media types over the years as well? I seem to remember something from early in his career, but then again, my mind isn't what it used to be.

[Los Bravos]

While the numbers are interesting, you just never got the feeling from watching him that you were watching a future hall of famer.A lot of people would have said that about Henry Aaron up until 1972 or so.

I can only speak for myself, but when I watched him pile up that long string of 30 HR-100 RBI seasons, I was thinking he'd make the Hall.

[Disgruntaledmarinerfan]

I'm very suprised that the Devil Rays cap has so many votes.

[CTaka]

I don't get that. Yes, I do agree that it is ridiculous and somewhat ignorant to say 493 HRS=HOF. But looking at his real value in the context of his time it's hard for me to see how he's not in. He had a very long career, I don't think there's any way to say he's not good enough for career value, and he wasn't exactly a slouch hitter by HOF standards with a 134 OPS+. Early in his career, before 1994, he was a truly great historical hitter. His OPS+ through 1994 was 153, which is a great hitter. Sometimes I think with McGriff if he would have just took the last few years of quality play off his career many people would realize the true degree of his hitting excellence and elect him.

He did have a long career, which is I think his strongest argument. But I still don't see him as a slam dunk, which is what I posted. And yes, muchof it was based on the incorrect statement (IMO) of 493 homers = HOF. Heck, these days it seems that 570+ homers isn't a lock either. But besides the false analogy of 493 = HOF, if you look at other first basemen playing in his era, there's absolutely no question in my mind that both Frank Thomas and Jeff Bagwell were better - I would put them in the slam dunk category. I'd say Raffy would have a better shot than McGriff, if it weren't for the 'roids issue, but based solely on between the lines performance, Raffy would get more votes because he hit 76 more dingers and was a better fielder. Raffy probably did deserve 1 or 2 of his GG's (excluding 1999 which was obviously rediculous). I think Big Mac has better numbers than McGriff - again putting the 'roids aside for the sake of argument. And I'd be more inclined to put Will Clark in the Hall before Fred, even though I don't think The Thrill has much chance of getting without paying admission either. So if you leave the steroid aspect aside, an argument could be made that McGriff was no better than the sixth best at his position during the time he played. Heck, even if you are arguably the best in baseball at your position during the time you played, that doesn't mean you are a slam dunk for induction (Jack Glasscock? Bob Elliott? Ron Santo? Bill Freehan?). If you are arguably among the best at your position during the time you played and you aren't a slam dunk, then I don't see being the sixth best at your position as a slam dunk either.

[plask_stirlac]

Crime Dog = Atlanta Brave.

[Seattle1]

I'm very suprised that the Devil Rays cap has so many votes.

That's the one I voted for (if he gets in). I thought, what the heck might as well have a Devil Ray in the Hall.

[yankillaz]

If he does get it, is going to be tough. The thing is between the Blue Jays and the Braves. Or, probably he'll do the same thing Nolan Ryan did, and will wind up going in with the Devil Rays cap.:laugh

[AlecBoy006]

No way should he be a Devil Ray.

If there a joke HOF- I'd vote for the Emanski Hat.

[538280]

He did have a long career, which is I think his strongest argument. But I still don't see him as a slam dunk, which is what I posted. And yes, muchof it was based on the incorrect statement (IMO) of 493 homers = HOF. Heck, these days it seems that 570+ homers isn't a lock either. But besides the false analogy of 493 = HOF, if you look at other first basemen playing in his era, there's absolutely no question in my mind that both Frank Thomas and Jeff Bagwell were better - I would put them in the slam dunk category. I'd say Raffy would have a better shot than McGriff, if it weren't for the 'roids issue, but based solely on between the lines performance, Raffy would get more votes because he hit 76 more dingers and was a better fielder. Raffy probably did deserve 1 or 2 of his GG's (excluding 1999 which was obviously rediculous). I think Big Mac has better numbers than McGriff - again putting the 'roids aside for the sake of argument. And I'd be more inclined to put Will Clark in the Hall before Fred, even though I don't think The Thrill has much chance of getting without paying admission either. So if you leave the steroid aspect aside, an argument could be made that McGriff was no better than the sixth best at his position during the time he played. Heck, even if you are arguably the best in baseball at your position during the time you played, that doesn't mean you are a slam dunk for induction (Jack Glasscock? Bob Elliott? Ron Santo? Bill Freehan?). If you are arguably among the best at your position during the time you played and you aren't a slam dunk, then I don't see being the sixth best at your position as a slam dunk either.

Eh, I don't know that I agree with the competition arguement. I mean, was it really McGriff's fault that there happened to be a lot of other great 1Bmen at the same time? And I would agree he probably was like the 6th best in the league, but that still doesn't take away what he himself did, and how he himself had value to his team. I know if I were a player, I would think of it as fair that they're keeping me out, despite having HOF numbers, because there just happened to be another 1B who was better. The HOF standard of excellence should be constant, it shouldn't vary due to competitoin at the position at the time. If you're good enough your're good enough IMO.

I would put Will Clark ahead of McGriff as well, but I think to many people McGriff will be more impressive, because he has the nice counting numbers. But Clark was a better hitter in his career and a MUCH better player at his peak. Clark was better and IMO he should certainly go in as well.

[CTaka]

Eh, I don't know that I agree with the competition arguement. I mean, was it really McGriff's fault that there happened to be a lot of other great 1Bmen at the same time? And I would agree he probably was like the 6th best in the league, but that still doesn't take away what he himself did, and how he himself had value to his team. I know if I were a player, I would think of it as fair that they're keeping me out, despite having HOF numbers, because there just happened to be another 1B who was better. The HOF standard of excellence should be constant, it shouldn't vary due to competitoin at the position at the time. If you're good enough your're good enough IMO.

I would put Will Clark ahead of McGriff as well, but I think to many people McGriff will be more impressive, because he has the nice counting numbers. But Clark was a better hitter in his career and a MUCH better player at his peak. Clark was better and IMO he should certainly go in as well.


I never said that it was McGriff's "fault" or that he is being blamed for playing at a time where there were many better players than he was. And when there are extenuating circumstances (Mantle, Aaron and Mays), clearly the sportswriters don't just pick one and ignore the others. But my impression is that it would be highly unlikely for sportswriters to vote for 6-8 players all playing the same position at the same time, and I don't get the sense that the writers feel it is the player's "fault" either. That just seems to be the way they vote. And if I think that scenario is not likely to occur, then I don't see it as a "slam dunk" that McGriff gets voted in. My post was that McGriff is clearly not a slam dunk to get elected in my opinion; I never blamed McGriff for playing at the time he did. I do not view McGriff in the same category of a Mays, Aaron, or Mantle, thus I don't view him as an extenuating circumstance that will compel writers to vote for him.