Barry Bonds

[sfgiantsfan1]

You need to leave him alone until they prove him using steroids

[BoweryBoys]

No We Don't. MLB is not a court of law and as such "innocent until proven guilty" does not apply nor should it factor in. Even though the circumstantial evidence has grown that Bonds probably commited felony violations of U.S. Drug laws, no one is putting him on trial and he is under no threat of jail, at least right now, or of any other meaningful strict punishment. Meanwhile U.S. citizens enjoy constitutionally guaranteed right of free speech which makes it fine and proper, based on all the ever mounting circumstantial evidence, for anyone who chooses to excersize the opinion that Bonds abused Steroids and other PEDs. None of these opinions is unlawfully hurting Bonds nor putting his freedom in jeopardy, let alone his MLB career. Bottom-line is Bonds has brought all of this on himself-period. If the vast amount of documentation in the recent book is all fallacious then it will be a simple matter for Bonds to gain legal remedy through U.S. courts through suit. However, I wouldn't hold one's breath waiting for that to happen as there is zero chance the authors would have dared write, and the publishers print and distribute, a book against a rich and powefrul man like Bonds that they couldn't 100 percent back up in court with evidence. Bonds fans have every right to support their hero and the rest of the public has every right to feel that Bonds is guilty. Also the HOF writers have every right to keep Bonds out if they choose to do so. The HOF is not a constitution guaranteed birthright.

[JonnyDomestik]

I agree with everything you said. Now just grow up and let everything take its course. You can say what you want. HOF can vote how they want etc. But a couple recent straw polls have shown that the voters will probably let him in. The fact is, steroids or not, he's the greatest player of his generation. The steroids that he allegedly took may have allowed him to heal faster and have more stamina during the long season but open your eyes and look at this swing. It's perfect. Perfect. I will say that again. He has a perfect swing. Best power stroke I have ever seen and that doesn't come from steroids.
Bonds will break Ruth's record unless something outlandish happens. Don't cry about it.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Geez...Another Barry Bonds debate. We can't have enough of those, huh. ;)

[Rowe]

I think we should start projecting days he'll play.

vs. Padres;
the 3rd and 4th, taking the 5th off so he can play home opener against Braves

vs. Braves
the 6th, the 7th, taking the 8th off (day game after night), the 9th
but, he might skip the 7th and play the 8th and 9th as day is much warmer than night in SF.

What do you think?

[Blackout]

why isnt there an asterisk in the thread title?

[bondsgirrrl]

Geez...Another Barry Bonds debate. We can't have enough of those, huh. ;)If I had a penny for every time a see a new bonds debate:radio

[JonnyDomestik]

I know. I know. I'm sorry to get pulled into it. Talking about Barry Bonds is like talking about politics while at the bar. You can't convice the other person so you just talk louder than them.

Jonny zips his mouth shut.

[west coast orange and black]

Rowe: I think we should start projecting days he'll play.

doing so and being correct would be about as easy as getting bonds in a dress (!!) so have at it, dude.

seriously, more challenging would be to predict the games that bonds will start. part of the game plan for the giants is for bonds to have some early exits in games that the giants are winning, and also in games where bonds has already had 4 at-bats. that way, he would have a much better chance of starting the following game, even if it is a day game after a night game.

of course, match-ups and schedule are factors, but bonds is expected to pinch-hit in the late innings in games that he does not start.

this season the giants are going to be as creative as possible with the big fella to get him as many at-bats as possible.

[KHenry14]

What the amount of games Barry plays underscores is how important Steve Finley and the 5th outfielder will be. Fin will get a lot of PT as will Ellison/Linden et al, and their production will be a key component of a successful Giants season.

KH14

[Rowe]

What the amount of games Barry plays underscores is how important Steve Finley and the 5th outfielder will be. Fin will get a lot of PT as will Ellison/Linden et al, and their production will be a key component of a successful Giants season.

KH14


Guessing 350 PA's for Finley is optimal. Assume he'll start in Bonds place 40 games, in Alou's 25, in Winn's 8 and also come in late innings for Alou and Bonds.

Ellison is a lock for the roster per Draper, but it's kind of hollow because it's doubtful he'll do anything but come in late innings.

[Rowe]

but bonds is expected to pinch-hit in the late innings in games that he does not start.

This is the one thing he has not been good at, see the retrosheet splits:
http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/Jbondb0010.htm

Note these splits are missing the bases loaded IBB.

[bondsgirrrl]

why isnt there an asterisk in the thread title? a yankee fan saying that:eek: you forget about sheffield and giambi?

[ElHalo]

a yankee fan saying that:eek: you forget about sheffield and giambi?

Indeed, Sheffield and Giambi did both use steroids. Giambi at least had the guts to (sort of) admit it. But neither of them have been spending the last five years talking about how they're the "greatest left handed hitter" of all time. Giambi did steroids, got embaressed, apologized, and left it at that. Bonds did steroids, bragged about how he took Ruth's slugging record, would soon take his home run record, and then we wouldn't be able to talk about him any more.

Plus, at least Sheffield and Giambi don't play for a team of carpetbagger johnny-come-latelies who haven't even been in their city for fifty years.

[west coast orange and black]

response 1.

dude, you wanna pop off on bonds for whatever reasons, go ahead, be our guest.
just keep it corraled in the non-giants fora.

to come in here and pop off on the san francisco giants is really bad form.
and you certainly know better.

queue up all the gm of teams that have not been playing in their cities for 50 years and them shove 'em all into the pacific if it would make you happy. but then what would the schedule of the mighty mighty yankees look like then?

sheesh.

[west coast orange and black]

response 2.

yawn.

[west coast orange and black]

Rowe: This is the one thing he has not been good at...

whatever the numbers happen to be, i do believe that mssrs. little, bochy, hurdle and melvin care all that much about 'em.

[JonnyDomestik]

We've only been here 49 years. Damn it! We're almost a legit franchise.

[Phillie_Fan]

I'll be there when he comes into Philly..

BOOOOOOOOOO!

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Plus, at least Sheffield and Giambi don't play for a team of carpetbagger johnny-come-latelies who haven't even been in their city for fifty years.
THAT'S IT!!!! I'VE HAD ENOUGH!!!!! :grouchy :grouchy :grouchy :grouchy :grouchy

ElHalo, I've put up with your thousands of inane rantings about the 1980s, Mike Schmidt, Chick Hafey, the National League, ridiculous "lawyer" arguments, blah, blah, blah! But now you've insulted our beloved S.F. Giants in an arrogant, smug, disgusting way!:grouchy Get over yourself. You are not that important. I hope as you grow older you may learn to have more respect. If you don't like the rest of the country outside of New York, then fine don't leave New York. Our Giants has a long and rich history that goes back to 1883 in New York. Most Giants' fans recognize and cherish the Giants New York roots. And by the way both Sheffield and Giambi played for west coast teams where they developed as stars.

Ok, my rant is over. :radio

[west coast orange and black]

c'mon, wags, is that any way to speak to a greek god?
:clapping :clapping :clapping

[west coast orange and black]

phillie_fan, boo all you want at the park.

but please understand that the 30 individual team areas were designed in part to allow fans of the teams a dedicated place to congregate, share, cheer, not boo.

thanx, man.

[Ubiquitous]

I think its easier if you just view ElHalo's remarks as if what he is saying he is saying to get your goat. Most of the time I think he just picks a view meant to agitate or shock as many people as possible. Perhaps in a tongue in cheek manner or perhaps in a ripping off a scab manner. I don't know which nor do I care, just let it flow right over you.

[west coast orange and black]

^^ i totally understand where the halo is coming from, everywhereman.
but i have found it best to reply if only so that others understand that the 30 team fora are safe havens for their *fans* of those 30, not places for negativity from *outsiders*.

that, and it makes me feel better.

[Brownie31]

Indeed, Sheffield and Giambi did both use steroids. Giambi at least had the guts to (sort of) admit it. But neither of them have been spending the last five years talking about how they're the "greatest left handed hitter" of all time. Giambi did steroids, got embaressed, apologized, and left it at that. Bonds did steroids, bragged about how he took Ruth's slugging record, would soon take his home run record, and then we wouldn't be able to talk about him any more.

Plus, at least Sheffield and Giambi don't play for a team of carpetbagger johnny-come-latelies who haven't even been in their city for fifty years.

ElHalo: Over half of the MLB teams have not been in their cities for fifty years. The majority of these did not have an MLB team prior to the team arriving. How is this "carpetbagging"? Brownie31

[Monzonater]

You need to leave him alone until they prove him using steroids

AMEN thank you someone who understands
now that im watching this show "bonds on bonds" im really likeing this guy even more then i did
i just hope he dont quit becuase of stupid people putting him down
and when MLB cant prove him for using steriods they should feel VERY stupid

[west coast orange and black]

monzo, one of the things that drives bonds is the desire to prove others wrong when they harbor the belief that he can not achieve a particular thing.

his health and legal situation have him up against a wall, but bonds is a battler, so he's gonna battle 'til he's got nothing left.

right now, his right knee is bone-on-bone.
bonds will say "i give" only when there is no bone left.

go giants!.

[Rennie Stennett]

moved to another spot

[Brownie31]

monzo, one of the things that drives bonds is the desire to prove others wrong when they harbor the belief that he can not achieve a particular thing.

his health and legal situation have him up against a wall, but bonds is a battler, so he's gonna battle 'til he's got nothing left.

right now, his right knee is bone-on-bone.
bonds will say "i give" only when there is no bone left.

go giants!.

Bonds might also "give" when there are no appeals left. Brownie31

[west coast orange and black]

go giants.

:gt

[Call Me Genius]

me for one in Philly will save my boos for J.D Drew, Scott Rolen, and Chipper Jones. As far as Barry Bonds is concerned, I'm tired of hearing it, can't watch one edition of sportscenter without seeing a five minute segment on Barry, each time talking about the same exact thing, it just gets old. The MLB community has plenty of other things to talk about this season so far, like Jim Thome and Chris Shelton. I don't want an entire breakdown of Barry's swings for every at bat, I simply don't care about him anymore. One thing that gets me though is that writers, even if he is found guilty of using steroids, will still vote him into the HOF. That truely disgusts me that Pete Rose would be banned from baseball for gambling on his team, but a guy who used steroids to become number two or even possibly number one on the all time homerun list and own single season homerun record along with numerous other records, even if found guilty, would still be elected into the HOF and possibly considered by many the best baseball player of all time. Steroid users like Bonds and Palmiero should be banned for baseball for cheating, simple as that, and add in any other steroid users. It's not that I have something against Barry becuase he most likely cheated (I say most likely becuase it hasnt been proven yet) its because he knows he was and is a great player and he is a complete jerk about it, he's apparently too good to talk to the media or be included in video games, he needs his own game. It stems back to his days with the pirates, example: Him and Jim Leyland. I just think, if he is found guilty of steroids, its a shame that a guy who was a shoein to get into the hall with 400 homers and 400 stolen bases to go along with his many other magnificent numbers could be excluded because he was supposedly jealous of McGuire and Sosa and took steroids, and if in fact he did take steroids than he deserves all the guff and garbage he recieves. Thats about all I got, and to you Giant's fans, I hope Matt Morris continues to pitch well, becuase he's on my fantasy team:)

[west coast orange and black]

go giants.
:gt

[Androctus]

AMEN thank you someone who understands
now that im watching this show "bonds on bonds" im really likeing this guy even more then i did
Thats exactly what it was designed to do, nothing more than a PR stunt to drum up sympathy because apparently he doesnt have a legal leg to stand on either. Did you ever stop to wonder why Bonds doesn't fire back a lawsuit for slander and defamation of character? Because the accusations have to be false.... All he did was try to have the sale of that book shut down..
i just hope he dont quit becuase of stupid people putting him down
and when MLB cant prove him for using steriods they should feel VERY stupid
For the better or worse of Major League Baseball, they may never know after this current sham investigation headed by a guy who obviously has a conflict of interest at its helm, and the Selig era will shamble on... As for those of us who will always choose to keep our suspicions, the only proof required is that athletes just don't get better in their late thirties, period. And if Bonds was ever on some kind of steroids, he obviously isn't using them right now...

[west coast orange and black]

how a fan determines whether a player is using steroids seems to fall into one or more of these three categories:

1. the player tested positive or admitted to using;
2, the player is physically larger;
3. the stats of the player.

my guess is that should bonds' knee be able to sustain him, and the hits and homers start happening, it will be claimed by some that bonds is back on the sauce.

[ValenzFan]

I feel you forgot a quote:

"I'm not hear to talk about the past, I'm here to talk about the future". --Mark McJuiced.



why isnt there an asterisk in the thread title?
__________________
""A lot of people counted us out, We showed we are capable of coming back, and we did. It's special. Before, it wasn't like that. Before, we had big leads. Now, we have to fight for it." -- Mariano Rivera

"It aint easy being me, I cant take it, life as a celebrety aint everything they make it"--2pac

"I never took steroids"--Barroid Bonds*

[west coast orange and black]

mcgwire had every right to answer what he did.
you have every right to interpret his answer as you do.

only, please understand that your words of mcgwire reveal much about you, and next to nothing about mcgwire.

[Williamsburg2599]

mcgwire had every right to answer what he did.
you have every right to interpret his answer as you do.

only, please understand that your words of mcgwire reveal much about you, and next to nothing about mcgwire.
Of course he has every right to answer that way, but if he didn't do steriods, wouldn't the smart thing to is come out and say "I didn't do steriods"? The thing that makes everybody suspicious about Bonds and Mac is when there asked about steriods, they immeditaly either a)change the subject b)yell at the reporter or c)not answer the question.

[Ubiquitous]

When I was 16 my Mother asked me if I was on drugs. She suspected I was and confronted me about it. I was not on drugs and had never taken drugs up to that point in my life.

My response to her was basically your A, B, and C. I didn't want to talk to her about it, I was insulted by it, and I didn't feel like I had to giver her an answer.

Most people I know who are innocent and get accused of something do not react peacefully. They tend to get mad and some feel that they shouldn't have to answer the question at all. His answer is not proof of wrongdoing or of being innocent.

[west coast orange and black]

kckid2599: ...if he didn't do steriods, wouldn't the smart thing to is come out and say "I didn't do steriods"?

i can not say what the smart thing would be, 'cause i'm not that smart.
but i do know that no one *owes* anyone else an answer if they do not wanna reveal.

someone can believe what they want about someone, and just because the belief happens to be false why is it a duty of the second to correct the beliefs of the first?

"what i am is known by some, the others need not guess."

[west coast orange and black]

Ubiquitous: His answer is not proof of wrongdoing or of being innocent.

everywhereman speaks wisely.

"if you don't like the answer, ask a different question."

[Honus Wagner Rules]

how a fan determines whether a player is using steroids seems to fall into one or more of these three categories:

1. the player tested positive or admitted to using;
2, the player is physically larger;
3. the stats of the player.

my guess is that should bonds' knee be able to sustain him, and the hits and homers start happening, it will be claimed by some that bonds is back on the sauce.
Should we really be surpised by Bonds struggles? He will be 42 years old in July. No 41-42 year old player have ever, I mean ever, played at a HoF level. So why did do many assume that Bonds would? Everyone kept saying, "Bonds is unique!" Well? :confused: There is a reason for this. At age 42 the body simply has lost too much in terms in eye-sight, strength, quickness, and speed. The difference betwen a 29 year old and a 42 year is probably not that great in terms of regular life. But in baseball the difference is huge.

[west coast orange and black]

wags: Should we really be surpised by Bonds struggles?

yes, we oughtta be. bonds is, as are the giants.

bonds' controlled swing bat speed is still 97-98;
he still identifies the pitch more quickly than anyone else around;
he is as strong today as he was 3 - 4 years ago.

his .214, 0 hr, 1 rbi are all about his front knee.

he is going bone-on-bone and trying to make it all come together.
the knee brace needs tinkering.
if it does come together, wags, things'll be different.
if not, then bonds will retire due to injury.

[Monzonater]

bonds WILL come thourgh
he works out alot and like he said its bone to bone so he will pull through and pass ruth

[W_Marone]

You know what, I'm not a Bonds fan at all, what so ever, but today I saw this one episode of Bonds on Bonds where Barry helped out this kid who had cancer, he invited him to the park and he met barry and Barry signed stuff for him and then he went out onto the field with Barry. For a guy who usually is shown in the media as a complete jerk, this was one time Bonds looked like a magnificent person.

[runningshoes]

Producer: "Barry, I have a great idea. Why don't you go hang out with a cancer victim. It will make you look wonderful and might even fool some fans into thinking you're a nice guy."

Barry: "Do I have to?"

Producer: "You want to change public peception, don't you?

[Williamsburg2599]

You know what, I'm not a Bonds fan at all, what so ever, but today I saw this one episode of Bonds on Bonds where Barry helped out this kid who had cancer, he invited him to the park and he met barry and Barry signed stuff for him and then he went out onto the field with Barry. For a guy who usually is shown in the media as a complete jerk, this was one time Bonds looked like a magnificent person.
Keywords there is it was on Bonds on Bonds.If I had my own show,I think I would look like a magnificent person too.TO's [deleted] agent saved a drowning kid in a pool at disney,doesn't mean he's magnificent person too.It just shows that he has A heart.Hey, the grinch had a heart too,it was just two(or three? I can't remember) sizes too small.

[Ubiquitous]

But that really isn't the point. The point is that these people are three dimensional. There is no true "hero" or "villian". EVerybody has many sides. The media generally doesn't present people like that too the public. Most people get stereotyped into certain roles and images.

[west coast orange and black]

Go Gomes: ...Barry helped out this kid who had cancer .... For a guy who usually is shown in the media as a complete jerk, this was one time Bonds looked like a magnificent person.

bonds was contacted by the make a wish foundation last year when the young boy, battling cancer, wished to meet bonds at the ballyard as one of his three wishes.
upon meeting the boy, bonds was impressed and inspired by the boy's bravery, toughness and tenacity -- bonds had had a rough going of it with his own post-op recovery program.
little brendan took the field with bonds on the day of bonds' return to play last season, making it a truly inspirational occasion.

bonds visits bay area hospitals and clinics on a regular basis -- on the one condition that news of his visits are not made public. he has stayed for hours with cancer patients young and old, visiting the families of the patients, as well.

not all news -- both good and bad -- surfaces all the time.

[Williamsburg2599]

Moises Alou was placed on the 15-day disabled list Saturday with a badly sprained right ankle, leaving the San Francisco Giants without their primary protection in the lineup for Barry Bonds. Batting behind Bonds, Moises Alou is hitting .378 this season with a team-leading seven homers and 25 RBI. Without him, the seven-time NL MVP is likely to receive even more walks. The 41-year-old Steve Finley is now expected to protect Bonds in the lineup. Asked about Bonds being walked intentionally with him on deck, Finley gave a double thumbs-up and said he won't take it personally. "Heck, no. I just look at it as more opportunities for me to drive in runs," Finley said. "(But) I'm not going to do it all the time."source sportsline.com

Do you think this will lengthen the time untill bond reaches 715?

[bondsgirrrl]

I know. I know. I'm sorry to get pulled into it. Talking about Barry Bonds is like talking about politics while at the bar. You can't convice the other person so you just talk louder than them.

Jonny zips his mouth shut.
AINT THAT THE TRUTH:grouchy :laugh

[bondsgirrrl]

Keywords there is it was on Bonds on Bonds.If I had my own show,I think I would look like a magnificent person too.TO's a-hole agent saved a drowning kid in a pool at disney,doesn't mean he's magnificent person too.It just shows that he has A heart.Hey, the grinch had a heart too,it was just two(or three? I can't remember) sizes too small.grinch was make believe:D :laugh

[Jake83]

People need to make their own judgements on players instead of forming their entire opinion on what the media says. The media's job is to create villians and want you to hate someone because hate is a passion and will make you buy papers and watch their shows.