Entire career with one team: second basemen

[Appling]

I tried to construct a fantasy team using only players whose entire career was with one franchise.

For all other positions I found lots of HOF players who played only for one MLB team. But second base is really tough: I can think only of Bill Mazerowski (and many DOUBT that this "good field, no hit" player really belongs there). Bobby Doerr is another HOF candidate at second base.

The best second basemen in my judgment tend to be players who played for multiple teams: Nap Lajoie, Rogers Hornsby, Eddie Collins, Joe Morgan, et. al.

Do you agree that, on a "single franchise" all-star team, second base would be the weakest position?

[ElHalo]

I tried to construct a fantasy team using only players whose entire career was with one franchise.

For all other positions I found lots of HOF players who played only for one MLB team. But second base is really tough: I can think only of Bill Mazerowski (and many feel that this "good field, no hit" player really belongs there).

The best second basemen in my judgment tend to be players who played for multiple teams: Nap Lajoie, Rogers Hornsby, Eddie Collins, Joe Morgan, et. al.

Do you agree that, on a "single franchise" all-star team, second base would be the weakest position?

Jackie Robinson? Bid McPhee? Craig Biggio?

[ElHalo]

For a whole team, I'd go with:

C: Bench
1B: Gehrig
2B: Robinson
SS: Ripken
3B: -
LF: Williams
CF: Mantle
RF: Ott

SP: W. Johnson
RP: Rivera

And I'd say the weakest position has to be SS. I'd definitely take Jackie over Cal.

[Appling]

And I'd say the weakest position has to be SS. I'd definitely take Jackie over Cal.
Other shortstop candidates might include Luke Appling or Ernie Banks.

I didn't consider Ripken because he is not yet in the HOF but I agree he may be the best of the "single-franchise" shortstops. I'm not sure I would put Jackie Robinson ahead of either Ripken or Banks.

[ElHalo]

Other shortstop candidates might include Luke Appling or Ernie Banks.

I didn't consider Ripken because he is not yet in the HOF but I agree he may be the best of the "single-franchise" shortstops. I'm not sure I would put Jackie Robinson ahead of either Ripken or Banks.

Banks gets demerits in my mind because he switched to 1B so early and played so poorly there. He was probably a lot better than I give him credit for.

If Ripken's not eligible, then Appling would definitely win the the SS award in my mind. Either way, I'd have Jackie ahead of any them. I rank Jackie as around the 50th best player of all time (only SS's ahead of him: Wagner, Vaughan, Cronin). Of the other guys available at SS (Ripken, Banks, etc.), I rate Ripken the highest, and he probably doesn't get any higher than 70th or so.

[julusnc]

Jackie Robinson was traded to the Giants.I know he never played a game but does he count towards your criteria?

[DoubleX]

Hmm...These things are always fun... Here are some 2Bman I've come up with (I apologize if I'm just repeating what others have already posted, I haven't looked through the thread yet).

Jackie Robinson - Dodgers
Charlie Gehringer - Tigers
Craig Biggio - Astros
Lou Whitaker - Tigers
Bobby Doerr - Red Sox
Bill Mazeroski - Pirates
Jim Gilliam - Dodgers
Gil McDougald - Yankees
Frank White - Royals
Bobby Richardson - Yankees

[LouGehrig]

It really is amazing and upsetting. Over the last twenty or thirty years, the terms have changed.

Instead of "knowing baseball," a term which means knowing baseball, we have "baseball history," a term which takes away much of the fun of knowing about baseball, and "baseball trivia," a term which trivializes that which is far from trivial.

Exactly how good was Charlie Gehringer and what did he do?

He was one of the best of all second basemen.

Over 19 seasons:

BA = .320
OBA = .404
SA = .480

Avr BB season = 83
Avr K season = 26

Averaged 40 doubles, 10 triples and 13 HR a season and an incredible 124 runs scored a season.

And he was a pretty good fielder.

Why has he been pretty much forgotten?

Was he trivial?
Was he part of forgotten history?

Think he was as good as Mazeroski, who will NEVER be forgotten because there will ALWAYS be fans who know Mazeroski is NOT a Hall of Fame level player.

[ElHalo]

Why has he been pretty much forgotten?

Was he trivial?
Was he part of forgotten history?


I certainly didn't forget about Charlie Gehringer; to the contrary, he's a horrifically underrated player that I hype up more than probably anybody. However, I did forget that he spent his entire career with the Tigers. For some reason, I was mis-remembering that he had come up with the A's. My mistake.

Gehringer, of course, is easily the best 2Bman to have played for just one team, and far outstrips anybody who could play the position at SS, and probably at 3B as well.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

For a whole team, I'd go with:

C: Bench
1B: Gehrig
2B: Robinson
SS: Ripken
3B: -
LF: Williams
CF: Mantle
RF: Ott

SP: W. Johnson
RP: Rivera

And I'd say the weakest position has to be SS. I'd definitely take Jackie over Cal.

Well, we have ElHalo's most hated third baseman, Mike Schmidt, or George Brett.

[538280]

Gehringer, of course, is easily the best 2Bman to have played for just one team, and far outstrips anybody who could play the position at SS, and probably at 3B as well.

You REALLY, REALLY hate Mike Schmidt, huh?

You can't even include him on your team either?

I currently have Schmidt ranked 5th all time. How opinions can differ....

[ElHalo]

You REALLY, REALLY hate Mike Schmidt, huh? Yes, yes I do.

You can't even include him on your team either?

I currently have Schmidt ranked 5th all time. How opinions can differ....

Traynor played his entire career with the Pirates. I didn't want the thread to become about Traynor, so I didn't put his name down on my list.

[Mike D.]

Lou Whitaker would qualify as a "one-franchise" second baseman. He's a borderline HOF candidate at best, but did have a nice career.

[538280]

Lou Whitaker would qualify as a "one-franchise" second baseman. He's a borderline HOF candidate at best, but did have a nice career.


Whitaker, a "borderline HOF candidate at best"? Don't agree with that at all. Whitaker was a very good hitter for a 2B, with a 117 OPS+ and a good OBP guy, a very good fielder, and had a long career. I personally think he should be an easy HOFer. Why don't you?

[MyDogSparty]

"Yes, yes I do."

Just curious why you hate Mike Schmidt. And if you hate George Brett, I'd be curious to hear your reason(s) for that too.

[ElHalo]

Just curious why you hate Mike Schmidt. And if you hate George Brett, I'd be curious to hear your reason(s) for that too.

Don't hate George Brett; just don't think he was as good as Pie.

As to Schmidt, I've gone on at length about him in the history forum. There's a big thread there now, about Pie Traynor, where I say more than enough. No need to extend that conversation into other forums.