all-time astros team

[UTforever22]

what would an all-time astros team look like. taking only into consideration how they played as astros? here's what i have so far

1B: Jeff Bagwell
2B: Joe Morgan
3B: Ken Caminiti
SS: ?
OF: Moisis Alou
OF: Lance Berkman
OF: ?
C: Craig Biggio
SP: Mike Scott
SP: Nolan Ryan
SP: Roger Clemens?
SP: Roy Oswalt?
RP: Billy Wagner

[chrismarullo]

C Ausmus
1B Bagwell
2B Biggio
3B Caminitti
SS Thon
LF Berkman
CF Cedeno
RF Cruz

SP Mike Scot
SP Roy Oswalt
SP Nolan Ryan
SP Larry Deirker


RP Billy Wagner
RP Brad Lidge

[tadlock11]

2nd team in ()

SP's:
Ryan
Clemmens
R. Johnson
Oswalt
Scott
Schilling

RP:
D. Smith
Wagner


C:
Ausmus (Ashby)

1B:
Bagwell (Davis)

2B:
Biggio (Morgan)

SS:
Thon (Reynolds)

3B:
Caminiti (Garner :D )

OF:
Beltran
Berkman
Cedeno
(Lofton)
(Cruz)
(Bell)

[tadlock11]

I don't recall much about Jimmy Wynn, would he be a better fit in the OF than some of these listed?

[lamearm]

I don't recall much about Jimmy Wynn, would he be a better fit in the OF than some of these listed?

The Cannon is in the outfield, without question, along with Cedeno and Cruz. Dickie Thon gets the node at SS even with his tragically short career. J. R. Richard has my vote as a starter over Oswalt...Again, a tragically shortened career. I like Doug Rader @ third, because most of Cami's great years were with San Diego..Same at 2nd, where I will go with Biggio...Morgan's great years were with Cincy. Because I can't remember an outstanding catcher besides my secondbaseman, I'll go with Ash or maybe John Bateman...I was gonna name Tony "Cheeseburger" Euseibo, but thought better of it.

[tadlock11]

I was gonna name Tony "Cheeseburger" Euseibo, but thought better of it.
What is he doing now? I always thought he was a very clutch hitter. Don't remember much about his defense (catching) though.

[PopTop]

Astros Daily put together a panel a while back and asked them to put an all-time Astros team together. The panel included longtime broadcaster Gene Elston (just won Frick Award), Bob Hulsey (for my money, THE source of club history), Greg Lucas (one of the current FSN broadcasters who has covered a lot of Texas baseball), Dr. Bill McCurdy (part of the Texas Baseball Hall of Fame with a Houston baseball history dating back to the old Buffs) and Darrell Pittman (who has logged thousands of hours at Astros Daily).

Their team came out to be:

C - Alan Ashby
1B - Jeff Bagwell
2B - Craig Biggio
3B - (tie) Ken Caminiti & Doug Rader
SS - Dickie Thon
OF - Starters: Jose Cruz, Cesar Cedeño, Jimmy Wynn ... Reserves: Lance Berkman, Moises Alou
Rotation: JR Richard, Nolan Ryan, Mike Scott, Larry Dierker, Joe Niekro
Bullpen: Dave Smith, Billy Wagner, Joe Sambito, Octavio Dotel, Danny Darwin

I can live with that team except for my intense disfavor for Alou who I would replace with Terry Puhl (who finished 6th in the OF voting).

Niekro and Darwin are too often overlooked on these teams, as is Bob Watson. Thought for sure there was an old thread here along these same lines, but darned if I can find it.

[UTforever22]

2nd team in ()

SP's:
Ryan
Clemmens
R. Johnson
Oswalt
Scott
Schilling

RP:
D. Smith
Wagner


C:
Ausmus (Ashby)

1B:
Bagwell (Davis)

2B:
Biggio (Morgan)

SS:
Thon (Reynolds)

3B:
Caminiti (Garner :D )

OF:
Beltran
Berkman
Cedeno
(Lofton)
(Cruz)
(Bell)


beltran and lofton were not astros for nearly long enough to be on this list

[Mariano_Rivera]

Can a mod who is knowledgabke about Astros history add a poll to this thread?

I want the results for the All-Time position by position battle. I have a thread about it in the history forum if you're interested.

[nolanryan5714]

beltran and lofton were not astros for nearly long enough to be on this list
Nor was Randy Johnson.

[nolanryan5714]

Can a mod who is knowledgabke about Astros history add a poll to this thread?

I want the results for the All-Time position by position battle. I have a thread about it in the history forum if you're interested.

I can start one up, Rickey...but I may need help from my ol' buddy co-mod, PopTop, to get it just right. ;)

[Mariano_Rivera]

I can start one up, Rickey...but I may need help from my ol' buddy co-mod, PopTop, to get it just right. ;)
Thanks :) That should be very helpful

[soberdennis]

I don't recall much about Jimmy Wynn, would he be a better fit in the OF than some of these listed?
I think Wynn would belong somewhere on this team. He was a good hitter and had a "toy cannon " for an arm.

[nolanryan5714]

It's not my thread, but I'm of the belief that a player should have had a minimum of 3 seasons in Houston before being considered. Again, Randy Johnson and Carlos Beltran shouldn't count on this supposed "all-time" list.

[PopTop]

Not a bad list on the poll. Just spoke with David and told him that Craig Reynolds might've been included for SS and Joe Niekro as one of the SPs. And falling for my own 'gotcha' that I posted earlier, just about everyone forgets about Bob Watson who probably would be the ultimate bench player for this team since he caught and played both 1B and OF.

I voted for:
SP - Nolan Ryan (tough choice really)
RP - Billy Wagner (career numbers with Houston makes this an eacy decision for me)
1B - Jeff Bagwell (no-brainer)
2B - Craig Biggio (no-brainer)
3B - Doug Rader (yes, over Caminiti. The Rooster was a solid glove man at third and had as much power, sans steroids)
SS - Craig Reynolds (excellent defender, great 2-hole hitter)
OF - Jimmy Wynn, Jose Cruz and Lance Berkman (never was much of a Cedeño fan, to be honest)

[nolanryan5714]

Maybe I screwed up, but the way the poll is set right now, you can vote for multiple players.

I voted:
SP: Ryan, Scott, Oswalt, Dierker, Clemens, and Richard.

1B: Bagwell (easy)

2B: Biggio (easy)

3B: Caminiti (easy for me, at least)

SS: Everett (his defense is taken for granted far too often)

C: Ashby (NOT easy - very hard to vote Ash over Ausmus!)

OF: Wynn, Berkman, Cruz

Bench: Lamb, Palmeiro

RP: Wagner, Lidge, Wheeler

[Mariano_Rivera]

pleaswe include 1 setup man and 1 closer

[PopTop]

pleaswe include 1 setup man and 1 closerWheeler, primarily setup, is on the list. Wagner, primarily a closer, is on the list. Lidge, who has done both, is on the list.

[HDH]

All Tragic team:

SS Dickie Thon - Beaned
SP JR Richard - Stroke
3B Ken Caminiti - Overdose

[PopTop]

All Tragic team:

SS Dickie Thon - Beaned
SP JR Richard - Stroke
3B Ken Caminiti - OverdoseYou can add Jim Umbricht (cancer), Don Wilson ('suicide') and Jay Dahl (auto accident) to that list as well.

[strosfan]

Daryl Kile can be added to the All-Tragic Team as well.

I voted for one player at each position which was easy for me until Berkman. He gets left off my list because I don't consider him an OF (he wasn't great at it anyways) and he won't beat out Bagwell at 1st.

1B: Bagwell
2B: Biggio
3B: Caminiti
SS: Thon
C: Ausmus
OF: Cruz
OF: Cedeno
OF: Wynn
SP: Ryan
RP: Wagner

[rbrittain56]

Thought for sure there was an old thread here along these same lines, but darned if I can find it.

http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=2677

[Astros]

To determine an all-time team there should be an opportunity to select the all-time starting rotation- not just one starter.

[Showtime100]

All Time Pinch Hitter - Denny Walling.

[nolanryan5714]

It's very interesting to see how few votes Mike Scott has gotten so far. Even I didn't add him to the 5 SP's, but the more I think about it, maybe I should have. He was right in the thick of our first true run at the pennant. Also, he was our #1 starter for a few years (forgot how many).

His career numbers don't shine, and he isn't considered by some to be a "bleeding orange" Astro, but he really did a job while he was on the team.

[rastro63]

1B Bagwell
2B Morgan*/Biggio
SS Thon*/Reynolds
3B Caminiti
C Ashby
LF Berkman
CF Wynn
RF Cruz

SP Ryan
SP Scott
SP Clemens
SP Richard*
SP Oswalt
RP D.Smith
RP Wagner

Comments:
*If players would need to meet a criteria of "minimum games started in Astros uniform", that would disqualify Thon, Morgan, and J.R. Richard.
Morgan's post-season and clutch numbers starts him ahead of Biggio, who had below average post-season numbers.

[OhioBoy]

C: Craig Biggio
1B: Jeff Bagwell
2B: Joe Morgan
3B: Morgan Ensberg
SS: Denis Menke
LF: Bob Watson
CF: Jimmy Wynn
RF: Lance Berkman

SP: Roger Clemens
SP: Roy Oswalt
SP: Andy Pettitte
SP: Mike Hampton
SP: Mike Cuellar

RP: Joe Sambito
RP: Dave Smith
RP: Danny Darwin

CL: Billy Wagner

[rastro63]

It's very interesting to see how few votes Mike Scott has gotten so far. Even I didn't add him to the 5 SP's, but the more I think about it, maybe I should have. He was right in the thick of our first true run at the pennant. Also, he was our #1 starter for a few years (forgot how many).

His career numbers don't shine, and he isn't considered by some to be a "bleeding orange" Astro, but he really did a job while he was on the team.
I'd take the '86 Mike Scott in a game 7...no way in the world the Mets beat Scott and the Astros in the dome for game 7...then it would've been
RED SOX vs. ASTROS

[Steve Jeltz]

2nd team in ()

SP's:
Ryan
Clemmens
R. Johnson
Oswalt
Scott
Schilling



Schilling and Johnson weren't with the Astros long enough. I would put J.R Richard and Larry Dierker ahead of them.

[houfan]

I would have to go with the team Astros Daily put together with one exception. Although I loved watching Cesar Cedeno play, and he was a great player in a Houston uniform, but I'd have to give Lance Berkman the nod in the starting outfield over Cesar, and put Cesar in the reserve outfield slot. Berkman has been more consistent throughout his career than Cedeno.