1962 Rookie Draft

[J W]

Welcome to the first rookie draft for the Diamond Mind IV Keeper League. I've decided to jump Mark's gun a bit and post the thread a few hours before the start in case there's any last-minute questions or, in my case, an editorial from Scoops to type.

The draft will begin at 9 PM ET tonight (3/24) by Beanie Bill, represenative of the Skipjacks. We will go three rounds (I don't think anyone is going to need anymore, but let us know if you do) at which point the undrafted rookies will enter the FA pool.

HERE IS A LINK TO THE POOL OF PLAYERS WHO DEBUTED IN 1962 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/ML_1962_debut.shtml)

SCHEDULE

First Round - (1-3) $1 mil, (4-6) $750k, (7-9) $500k
1) Skipjacks - Tony Oliva, LH-OF
2) Gamblers - Gaylord Perry, RH-P
3) Diablos - Willie Stargell, LH-OF
4) Quakers - Bob Veale, LH-P
5) Hard Cider - Dick Radatz, RH-P (from Legends)
6) Redbirds - Dave McNally, LH-P
7) Cannons - Denis Menke, RH-SS
8) Skipjacks - Jim Bouton, RH-P (from Hard Cider)
9) Skipjacks - Don Lock, RH-OF (from Knights via Hard Cider)

Second Round - $250k
10) Skipjacks - Pete Ward, LH-3B
11) Gamblers - Cookie Rojas, RH-2B
12) Hard Cider - Pete Richert, LH-P (from Diablos)
13) Legends - Jack Lamabe, RH-P (from Quakers via Hard Cider)
14) Legends - Ed Charles, RH-3B
15) Redbirds - Bob Bailey, RH-3B
16) Legends - Bob Tillman, RH-C (from Cannons)
17) Redbirds - Dal Maxvill, RH-SS (from Hard Cider)
18) Legends - Denny Lemaster, LH-P (from Knights)

Third Round - $250k
19) Redbirds - Diego Segui, RH-P (from Skipjacks via Hard Cider)
20) Gamblers - Manny Mota, RH-OF
21) Diablos - Fred Norman, LH-P
22) Quakers - Joe Pepitone, LH-1B
23) Legends - Bo Belinsky, LH-P
24) Redbirds - Tommie Agee, RH-OF
25) Knights - Max Alvis, RH-3B (from Cannons)
26) Skipjacks - Bob Humphreys, RH-P (from Hard Cider)
27) Knights - Dennis Bennett, LH-P

Additional Picks - $250k
28) Skipjacks - Fred Whitfield, LH-1B
29) Legends - Bernie Allen, LH-2B
30) Redbirds - Gene Conley, RH-P
31) Cannons - Tommy Harper, RH-OF
32) Hard Cider - Ron Taylor, RH-P
33) Knights - Don Rudolph, LH-P
34) Skipjacks - Bud Daley, LH-P
35) Diablos - Ken McMullen, RH-3B
36) Legends - Don Stenhouse, RH-P

37) Redbirds - Ken Berry, RH-OF
38) Cannons - Cal Koonce, RH-P
39) Hard Cider - Sammy Ellis, RH-P
40) Skipjacks - Jim Golden, RH-P
41) Legends - Joe Bonikowski, RH-P
42) Legends - Dan Osinski, RH-P
43) Legends - John Boozer, RH-P
44) Legends - Tommie Sisk, RH-P
45) Legends - Julio Navarro, RH-P

46) Legends - Bob Botz, RH-P
47) Legends - Merritt Ranew, LH-C
48) Legends - Manny Jiminez, LH-OF
49) Legends - Ted Savage, RH-OF
50) Cannons - Jim Roland, LH-P

[leecemark]

--Just a reminder before you pick; for players drafted in 1962 (and 63) their 6 year clock to free agency begins with their draft year. Every player drafted this year will be a free agent after the 1967 season - regardless of how much use you have gotten out of them. If you are leaning toward a player whose best years are down the road a bit, take that into account.
--JW, you are free to announce an early signing if you wish.

[catcher24]

OK, I missed the trade of first pick, third round from Mac to the Redbirds. I have adjusted the draft list in DM accordingly, and it is now the same as JW has posted. I'm ready to.......WAIT. NO PICKS UNTIL ROUND TWO!!! Ohmygosh, how did this happen!!???:noidea

[catcher24]

Well, we can just give him Oliva and continue!!:laugh

[J W]

The Skipjacks have announced an agreement with their first pick...

http://a1259.g.akamai.net/f/1259/5586/1d/images.art.com/images/-/Tony-Oliva-Photograph-C10107083.jpeg

Tony Oliva has signed a six-year deal starting at $1 mil.

Beanie Bill: "We took a long and hard look at everyone available, and this player stood out among the rest. He'll hit for average, power, and he's a terrific outfielder. We're extremely happy to add him to our ballclub."

[leecemark]

The Gamblers have submitted their pick to the league office, pitcher Gaylord Perry:

http://i1.ebayimg.com/03/i/03/3f/e7/e7_1_b.JPG
Gaylord Perry

--The Diablos are on the clock. EH, you have until 10 after to make your selection.

[mac195]

EH is not here. Has anyone heard from him?

[catcher24]

Not me. BTW, Mac, did you see on the off-season thread the discrepancy in your two rosters?

[J W]

Uh-oh... hope he submitted a list. Has someone sent a PM yet?

[mac195]

Yes thanks Lou. I will add Clinton to the roster.

[catcher24]

OK, then I'll leave him on the DM roster also. Thanks.

[J W]

I PMed ElHalo, and Nails. I'll see where they are and be back in a few.

[catcher24]

OK. It's getting very close for El Halo timewise.

[ElHalo]

I'm here, I'm here, just got in.

[J W]

I see EH is here, his pick should be coming up shortly.

-edit- beat me to the punch. :laugh

[ElHalo]

http://i18.ebayimg.com/02/i/02/fe/e0/a2_1_b.JPG

Willie Stargell.

[leecemark]

--I checked whose on line before picking for EH (he didn't send a list). He is at BBF now and I PMed him. I guess we can wait another couple minutes.

[catcher24]

Yup, he was my #1 choice.

[ElHalo]

--I checked whose on line before picking for EH (he didn't send a list). He is at BBF now and I PMed him. I guess we can wait another couple minutes.

I'm confused. I though I picked Willie Stargell, but I definitely don't remember putting that picture up...

Rushed home, by the way, to make the draft... was a couple minutes late. Sorry about that.

[leecemark]

--Or perhaps that won't be neccessary.
--The Quakers have submitted their pick to the league office, pitcher Bob Veale.

http://i19.ebayimg.com/01/i/06/4c/f8/fe_1_b.JPG

Bob Veale

[catcher24]

Pretty quick with them thar photos, JW!!:gt :laugh

[leecemark]

--I believe JW is providing the photographic support for the draft.

[catcher24]

OK, Mac, who you going to take with my pick? I know who I'd take, and I think you'll take the same "Monster".

[J W]

First round picks only. I'll need some time after that. ;)

[mac195]

Hard Cider are pleased to select "The Monster".

http://vintagecardtraders.org/virtual/64topps/64topps-170.jpg

[leecemark]

--Mac? Two minutes on the clock and the guy you wanted is still there. Second thoughts?

[catcher24]

Jim - Off the draft for a second. I checked rosters earlier today. Don't know if you've had time to read the Off Season thread for today. Your roster (on the thread of rosters) shows Phil Roof and Chuck Essegian on your roster; they aren't on my DM roster. Are they still on your team? Also, my DM roster shows you still have Jerry Kindall, but he ISN'T on your thread roster. Should I remove him from the DM roster? Thanks.:waving

[leecemark]

--I guess not.
--The Redbirds have submitted their pick to the league office, pitcher Dave McNally.

http://i22.ebayimg.com/01/i/06/99/be/31_1.JPG

--Cannons on the clock.

[catcher24]

OK, he's yours, Mac. I thought he was your pick!

[catcher24]

I have the Cannons draft list. They take:

http://i2.ebayimg.com/03/i/06/81/f5/65_1_b.JPG
SS Denis Menke.

[J W]

you.... lol

[catcher24]

Now JW gets to rip off THREE PICKS!! Who will they be?

[leecemark]

--Okay its JW for the trifecta.

[ElHalo]

Jim - Off the draft for a second. I checked rosters earlier today. Don't know if you've had time to read the Off Season thread for today. Your roster (on the thread of rosters) shows Phil Roof and Chuck Essegian on your roster; they aren't on my DM roster. Are they still on your team? Also, my DM roster shows you still have Jerry Kindall, but he ISN'T on your thread roster. Should I remove him from the DM roster? Thanks.:waving

Roof and Essegian should still be on my roster. There might be some confusion with Roof due to the fact that he didn't play in 62 (or 63, or all but one game in 64). Don't know why there'd be a problem with Essegian.

I don't believe Kindall is mine, though I have a vague feeling that he might have been and that I traded him away at some point.

[J W]

I'll provide the other photos in a minute.

The Skipjacks select:

http://i9.ebayimg.com/01/i/00/54/cd/57_1.JPG
P Jim Bouton

http://i15.ebayimg.com/04/i/06/95/e7/ee_1.JPG
OF Don Lock

second rounder in a sec

[J W]

3B Pete Ward.

:gt

[catcher24]

JW, I don't think you can take Lock. He was on the Senators and I believe he would therefore be ineligible,unless the rules are different from the formation draft.

[ElHalo]

Lock is an excellent pickup. He's essentially Willie Davis without the SB's, and I inexplicably paid Davis $7 mill last year.

[catcher24]

OK, Jim, thanks. That should bring all of the DM rosters into conformance with the thread rosters.

[leecemark]

--Lock is eligible. 1962 was his first major league apearance. Only members of the 1961 Phillies, Senators and A's are locked into those teams. Their rosters will stay constant thru 1963.

[catcher24]

Uh oh. I screwed up my draft list, then. There were three or four guys I didn't include because they were on the doormats.:ughh

[J W]

That's ok, Lew. I thought Denis Menke was mine. Then again, I DIDN'T think I would get Jim Bouton.

[catcher24]

Chris had his top 15 in order; Menke happened to be sixth. The top five were all gone (probably everyone's top 5!!). Bouton was his next pick.

[mac195]

I DIDN'T think I would get Jim Bouton.
Me niether. He'll make you pretty tough in '63, and just add to the ridiculous team you'll have in '64.

[mac195]

Does somebody have Dude's pick?

[leecemark]

--Sorry I fell asleep at the wheel. The Gamblers select IF Cookie Rojas.
--Mac on the clock.

[ElHalo]

Since I don't have a pick until the thrid round (and am pretty well set up as far as backups go anyway), I'm popping out for the night. I'll be here for another ten minutes or so if anybody wants anything.

Thanks.

[mac195]

I'm gonna go with another pitcher, Pete Richert.

[leecemark]

-Lew, Lew, Scott (I have his picks), Lew, Scott, Lew to round out the 2nd round. Should go quick with only 2 teams active.

[J W]

It's LEW time! Make us proud!

[catcher24]

I'll take pitcher Jack Lamabe.

[catcher24]

The Legends take thirdbaseman Ed Charles, who also played some second base and will likely see action there for Legends.

[leecemark]

--The Redbirds select Bob Bailey.

[catcher24]

The Legends take catcher Bob Tillman.

[leecemark]

--The Redbirds select Dal Maxvill.
--Lew to roind out the 2nd round.
--3rd is Mac, Dude, EH, Nails, Lew, Scott, Chris, me, JW and me.
--4th round is in order for anyone who wants to stick around. 12 hours draft window otherwise.

[catcher24]

For their fourth and final pick of this round, the Legends choose pitcher Denny Lemaster.

[mac195]

The 1st pick or the third round was traded to the Redbirds in the Shantz/Umbricht deal.

The Hard Cider are pleased to add veteran bullpen ace Bobby Shantz to their roster. Jim Umbicht joins the Redbirds who also get the Skipjacks 3rd round, #19 pick in the upcoming draft. Scott if you would confirm.

[leecemark]

--Okay the Redbirds select Deigo Segui.

[leecemark]

--The Gamblers select Manny Mota.

[mac195]

... although Scott may have forgotten to confirm it on the board. He did agree in a PM.

[mac195]

--The Gamblers select Manny Mota.
Two good partial years in CF, and it looks like you'll be getting a lot of use out of them.

[538280]

Hey, guys, coming in here late. I'm glad with my selection, Menke is a player who I wanted. I REALLY wanted Radatz though.

[leecemark]

--He also listed the 19th pick as one for me to take for him tonight. EH also gave me instructions for the next pick - the Diablos select Fred Norman.
--The Quakers select Joe Pepitone.
--Back to you Lew.

[mac195]

I REALLY wanted Radatz though.
No way he was slipping past me. ;)

[J W]

Mota was a nice pickup this late IMO.

[catcher24]

Mac took him with the fifth pick he got from me!

[catcher24]

The Legends take pitcher Bo Belinsky.

[leecemark]

--The Redbirds take Tommy Agee.

[J W]

Great pickup in Agee, if the Redbirds can make room long enough in the minors. See, there's value in the 3rd round! (don't see much after that though)

[leecemark]

--With our first pick in the 1962 draft the Knights select 3B Max Alvis.

[catcher24]

Soon as JW and Mark finish off this round, I'm out of here. Been at this $#@*& computer screen most of the day, and I'm tired of it.

[catcher24]

Mark - We're probably going to have to beef up the doormats a bit with free agents before the season. In reviewing roster numbers, they all have only 22 or 21 players - not even enough for a full roster, and that's not accounting for possible injuries.

[J W]

It was a tough choice, but the Skipjacks are going with RHP Bob Humphreys.

[leecemark]

--The Knights select pitcher Dennis Bennett to complete the third round. Knights management is pleasantly surprised to have acquired two players who figure to help out the big club in the relatively near future with 3rd round picks.

[mac195]

Very nice pick up there, JW.... and Bennett will as a lot of quality inning for the Knights.

[J W]

Well, the Skipjacks actually want to pick up another player, but they'll let him go to the FA pool if that's our consensus. Mark?

[leecemark]

--Lew, the doormats have exactly the same rosters with the same players having exactly the same (projected) seasons as they did in 1961. Those teams were copied intact from last season to this one. That is 28, 29 and 31 players on their rosters.

[catcher24]

Good pickup on Bennett, Mark! Don't know how on earth I missed him - oh, wait, he was on the Phils, so I didn't include him. I went back through the new players real quick (that's why I picked up Ed Charles), but I missed Bennett, or I would have taken him rather than Belinsky! Anyway, it's been fun, but I'm out of here for tonight.

[leecemark]

--JW, the draft will continue for a week or until everyone loses interest (considering whats left, probably the latter). Go ahead and make your 4th round pick.

[J W]

OK, just because...

The Skipjacks will select 1B Fred Whitfield. We're now done.

[catcher24]

Posted by Mark:
Lew, the doormats have exactly the same rosters with the same players having exactly the same (projected) seasons as they did in 1961. Those teams were copied intact from last season to this one. That is 28, 29 and 31 players on their rosters.

You mean, including retired players, etc? When I migrated forwarded, anyone who retired got cut (if the migration doesn't find a player with the same ID or UID, it drops them). I can just copy those three teams over, then. I show 27, 28 and 30 (from the 1961 files), but that should do it. I'll just copy them over, if that's what you did.

[leecemark]

--Yes, for the doormats its deju vu all over again. They are doomed to repeat 1961 3 times before being put out of their misery.

[J W]

The Skipjacks are extremely pleased with their draft. After the no-brainer (Oliva), they added a stellar CFer (Don Lock), a 3B with a powerful bat (Pete Ward), and more insurance at 1B (Fred Whitfield). They also picked up one of their highest rated pitchers (Jim Bouton) and one of the better relievers late in the draft (Bob Humphreys).

A couple of these guys will likely be lost in the expansion draft; nonetheless, this is more than we expected to get. Cigars are being passed through the war room.

:gt

[leecemark]

--Dude's 12 hours are underway. ElHalo next in 12 hours or when Dude picks (or passes) whichever comes first.

[catcher24]

See you all later!:waving

[leecemark]

--After basically punting this draft by trading away our first and second round picks the Knights weren't expecting to pick up alot of immediate help or a future star.
--We were hoping to pick up a 3B who can step in if we lose Eddie Mathews to free agency anytime in the next few seasons. That is a position we were weak at in our farm system, but one which was fortunately deep in solid prospects this year. Max Alvis was actually the top guy on our 3B list and we are very happy he slipped to us.
--After trading Steve Barber we were hoping to land a picher who could help out immediately. Ideally that pitcher would be a lefty who could work out of the pen or as a spot starter. Again, the number one guy on our list was Dennis Bennett and we were lucky enough to land him. Dennis is also a local boy who ought to help out some at the gate (if he does well anyway).

[J W]

Mark: is it possible to edit the 1962 rosters to reflect the DM statistics for these rookies? I'd appreciate it... a couple of these draft picks will likely end up on my 25-man roster.

[leecemark]

--I'll get the draft picks added tonight. I was planning to post the new rosters at the end of the player acquistion period, but I'll go ahead and post the current rosters with tonights picks added and the PFAs and non-tenders removed.

[leecemark]

--Here are the updated rosters, less players who didn't have real life playing time in 1962. Several teams don't have much roster space left going into the free agent auctions, although you can release additional players to make room if you want (you are stuck with their salary against your cap though). Lew still has half a roster to come up with.

[baseballPAP]

Nice job on the proxies Mark....almost exactly the guys I would have went for. Dave McNally is officially on the trading block BTW...trying to stay away from lefties in Fenway! The rosters are stuck at 40, is that correct?

[leecemark]

--You need to be at 40 for Opening Day (or be billed 250K for the vacant spots if under). Once the season gets underway you can go over the 40 if you have the money and need. That could come in handy if you want to stash prospects in the mnors that are a few years away, but also sign some guys who are usefull backups for 62, but have little upside.
--Last year I signed an extra cacher after the draft set so I wouldn't have to call up Tim McCarver in the event of injury. I didn't end up needing him, but finding an acceptable 3rd string catcher for minimum wage a season at a time is one way I'll probably mange my roster (and go over 40) most seasons.
--You can go under 40 during the season if you trade 2-1 or whatever and don't feel like signing someone just to get up to 40. The reason you need to be at 40 for Opening Day is to prevent anyone from expanding their cap space byusing it on fewer players. You can't be over at that time to prevent someone from stockpiling a bunch of minimum wage backups (say cornering the market on backup catchers) while somebody else can't find enough useful guys to fill their roster.

[leecemark]

--Okay, the Gamblers have apparently passed in the 4th round and the Diablos are 4 hours into their clock. Anybody who has decided to pass on drafting any more players please post to that effect so others can go ahead and pick (assuming anybody still wants players from this rookie class). The Knights will be passing on the rest of their picks.

[Nails]

The Quakers will forfeit the rest of their picks as well.

[The Dude]

Gamblers pass on the rest of their picks as well.

[ElHalo]

I'll take Dennis Bennett.

[leecemark]

--The Knights picked Bennett with the last pick of the third round.

[ElHalo]

--The Knights picked Bennett with the last pick of the third round.

My mistake; I was looking at the list on the front page, where I guess it hadn't been put in.

How about Fred Newman?

[catcher24]

There are still at least three players I would like to draft. Since Dude and Nails passed, I'll do one after Elhalo, and then pass it on to the Redbirds. Or if everyone else passes, I'll just take my three picks. Whatever works.

[538280]

There are still a few players I'd like to draft too.

[mac195]

There are still at least three players I would like to draft. Since Dude and Nails passed, I'll do one after Elhalo, and then pass it on to the Redbirds. Or if everyone else passes, I'll just take my three picks. Whatever works.

EH has already picked. It's your turn.

[mac195]

--You need to be at 40 for Opening Day (or be billed 250K for the vacant spots if under). Once the season gets underway you can go over the 40 if you have the money and need.
Does that mean, after opening day, we can just sign anyone who is not already signed, first come first served, until we run out of money?

[leecemark]

--If you have money to spend and unsigned players you want to spend it on, then yes. Adding players in this manner may be done at any time after the first series is played.

[catcher24]

Sorry, Mac, there was a question mark and I wasn't sure it was a good pick. Anyway, the Legends select secondbaseman Bernie Allen. So now the Redbirds are on the clock.

[baseballPAP]

I don't recall seeing the name....the Redbirds will take Tom Cheney to round out their picks. If he has been taken, they'll go with Gene Conley as rotation insurance.

The Redbirds would like to place both Dave McNally AND Juan Pizzarro on the trading block. The price? A comparible RH or good draft pick.

~S

[leecemark]

--It will have to be Conley. Cheney belongs to the 61 Senators. Cannons on the clock, if they are still drafting.

[mac195]

--If you have money to spend and unsigned players you want to spend it on, then yes. Adding players in this manner may be done at any time after the first series is played.
What if you cut a player to get down to 40, could you then resign him after the 1st series without any additional cost?

[538280]

The Cannons take Tommy Harper

[mac195]

Harper is a good pick up this late. Hard Cider will take pitcher Ron Taylor.

[catcher24]

Very nice pickup, Mac. Didn't think anyone was going to hurt me like that this late in the draft:ughh . He's really good down the road.

[leecemark]

--I guess I will take another pick after all. The Knights select Don Rudolph. He is actually a pretty decent starting pitcher in 1962. Not much worse than the premier FA pitcher, Jim O'Toole, and better than the 2nd best FA option (kralick). Of course, he is just a one year band aid but for 250K and a 4th round pick he looks pretty good.

[leecemark]

--Well Mac, I hadn't really considered that and it has never been discussed before. I think owners should be prohibited from resigning their roster cuts until after the 2nd series (to simulate clearing waivers). If you want to resign them at their previous salary that should be okay, but you can't resign them at a reduced salary and get back cap space that way. Does that sound fair? Any alternative suggestions?

[mac195]

Sounds fair to me.

[J W]

Gene Conley started his career in 1952, not 1962. Don Rudolph started in 1957. I thought they would be available later in free agency, not the rookie draft.

Otherwise, the Skipjacks will keep signing players, starting with LHP Bud Daley. They'll also likely cut a couple more players before free agency starts.

[leecemark]

--Anybody active in 1962 and not on somebody's roster is fair game for this draft (see post 4 of the offseason thread for both that comment and the attached list).
--Daley to JW then (thats 40 for the Skipjacks by my count). The Gamblers have previously announced they were passing the rest of their picks. Dude you can always change your mind and add someone, but EH you can go ahead if you wish.

[leecemark]

--These are the roster totals I have programed for each team thru JW's 5th round pick; Cannons 38, Gamblers 33, Diablos 32, Skipjacks 40, Knights 39, Legends 21, Quakers 37, Redbirds 39.

[mac195]

... and Hard Cider has 38 players.

Am I correct in assuming that we can exceed the 40 man limit here, either in the draft, or in the auctions, as long as we cut people to make the limit by opening day?

[leecemark]

--The only time you are required to be at 40 is for your Opening Day roster. That would be the April 10 deadline for submitting rosters and managerial profiles. Up til then you can sign as many players as you can fit under your cap. At no point can you exceed 100M in contracts though and anybody you cut from here through the end of the season still counts against your cap.

[leecemark]

--I show 37 on the Hard Cider. Let me know who I'm missing (mac and anybody else who has a roster discrepancy).

[mac195]

Gary Colb and Lee Stange are missing, and Ernie Banks was non tendered, so +2 and -1 = 38.

[leecemark]

--Kolb and Stange added and Banks dropped. 38 it is.

[catcher24]

OK, I'm really confused now. I think we need to get something written into the rules. I was under the distinct impression that this first draft was simply for rookies - players who made thheir initial appearance in 1962. In fact, I believe that is what the rules say:

Players debuting in 1962 (and each subsequent year) would be drafted in inverse order of the standings. The first 3 players drafted would be 1 million dollars, the next 3 750K, the next 3 500K and anyone drafted after the first round would be signed at the 250K minimum wage.

I think everyone else should go in the Free Agent draft, because that is what they are - free agents. If they aren't rookies and debuting in the upcoming season, I don't feel they should be eligible in this draft, regardless of other posts. If we have rules and don't follow them, why have rules? This is one reason I've been working on the wording of the rules and trying to clear things up. Seems like all free agents - premium and scrubs - should be going up for auction Friday.

Additionally, I think the 40 man roster should be a hard cap. The only way to exceed would be the result of a 1 for 2 or 3 trade, then someone would have to be cut. That's been my understanding since the beginning, or at least until Mark's recent post. Thoughts?

[538280]

Additionally, I think the 40 man roster should be a hard cap. The only way to exceed would be the result of a 1 for 2 or 3 trade, then someone would have to be cut. That's been my understanding since the beginning, or at least until Mark's recent post. Thoughts?

This is the offseason. We don't need any hard limits for players on the roster. If we want to sign a big free agent, we should be able to sign them in the offseason regardless of how many players we have, we should just be conscious of the salary cap. As long as we're back down to 40 or lower by Opening Day. I think that's how MLB does it too, right?

[leecemark]

--MLB teams actually have hundreds of players under contract. 40 of them are on the major league roster and eligible to play on the big club. Several teams exceeded 40 players at various points last season and no one raised the issue and I made the same comments regarding Opening Day in 1961. In fact due to trades I ended up drafting 42 players last year, cut 2 of them before Opening day and later resigned one of them.
--Anybody who wasn't drafted last year IS a rookie in our league. True they could have been signed as free agents during the 1961 season, but if they weren't they are eligible for the 1962 draft. The time to raise objections or questions to the list of eligible players was when it was posted over a week before the draft not after players on it have already been drafted.
--We really don't have clear rules covering every possible situation at this time. Apparently we need to clarify this issue for next years draft. For this year it was my intention and was clearly (well maybe not that clearly:confused: ) stated at the outset of offseason activity that ALL players not already on a roster were eligible for the draft. I would like it stay that way going forward, but majority rules for next yeats draft.
--I also would like to retain the freedom to exceed 40 men on the roster during the offseason to give owners more flexibility. I don't know who I'll be able to draft or sign and some marginal guys already on my roster may end up having a role in the coming season. I don't want to release them until a replacement has been locked up and I don't think anybody else should be forced to do so either. Again if a majority of owners feels otherwise, a hard roster cap can be put into the rules prior to next offseason.
--It would have been nice if I could have thought of every situation and had my team of lawyers nail every thing down before starting the league, but the fact is our original rules were fairly brief and simple with lots of room for interpretation. The good thing is this is a long term project and we have plenty of time to improve upon them.

[catcher24]

Posted by Chris:
This is the offseason. We don't need any hard limits for players on the roster

Agreed, no argument. My 40 man hard cap proposal was meant for the regular season. However, Mark is correct in saying that teams actually have dozens (hundreds?) of players under contract. Minor leaguers are all under contract. However, only 40 can be placed on the major league roster. It doesn't matter, and in retrospect I was probably wrong about this. So I would say forget it.

However, I still feel the need to get something down about the rookie draft for next year. I have seen three pitchers get picked here that I would have taken long ago if I knew they were eligible, and that I thought I would be able to bid on in the secondary free agent auction. Yes, it is my fault for not looking at the roster Mark thoughtfully provided. I simply went to B-R.com and went through all 1962 debut players. Thought that sounded like a good idea at the time. And the rule, as it is written, is ambiguous. I interpret "debuted in 1962" to mean they debuted in the real major leagues in 1962 (it appears JW was also under that impression). However, Mark interpreted it to mean "debuted in 1962 in the DM Classic Keeper League", a valid argument seeing how the rule is worded. It certainly is too late to do anything this year, since some of these players have now been taken. However, I have written the following, and would like to see it implemented prior to next season's rookie draft:

Prior to each season, players who debuted in the real major leagues during the season which is about to be replayed will be drafted through a Rookie Draft. The draft will be in inverse order of the previous year’s final league standings and will be a straight draft. Salaries for drafted rookies will be as follows:
a.) First 3 players drafted, 1 million dollars.
b) Next three players drafted (4th through 6th), 750K.
c) Next three players drafted (7th through 9th), 500K.
d) All remaining players drafted, 250K (minimum salary).
8a. Players drafted from the rookie pool will get an "arbitration bump" after their third season (3rd qualifying season for players drafted 1964 and later). They will receive a one time doubling of their previous year’s salary.

Any other players who have appeared in the real majors prior to the upcoming season, but haven't appeared on a CKL roster yet, would be available for bidding during the secondary free agent auction, along with the non-tenders.

Mark, I also have another question regarding free agents. Since they will be signed to a contract for X years at X dollars per year, do they still get the yearly 250K bump in salary? And if so, wouldn't that need to be considered in any buyout? If they will get the bump, I just want to note that in the rules. I know you don't have a cadre of lawyers, nor do I. However, I would like to get these issues settled before the season begins anew and the rules get put off until next year. I think now is the time to take care of it.

[leecemark]

--I can see the rookie draft issue either way. Whether players who debuted prior to the upcoming season but have not appeared in the CKL are selected in the rookie draft or the secondary free agent market doesn't matter that much to me. We should decide prior to the next offseason and make it clear in the rules though. If we limit it to strictly 1963 debut players next year, I'll just put a disclaimer on the non-roster player list that not everyone is eligible for the draft. I assume owners are doing a little homework anyway and can easily separate the rookies from the free agents.
--I was surprised that guys like Conley and Rudolph created any controversy. They were passed on 40 times each in the last draft, putting them outside the best 360 players available. Even assuming he was available all along I wasn't exactly targeting Rudolph and took him as kind of an afterthought when he slipped to the end of the 4th round. I suppose if your approach is to just try and patch a team together each year until your future picks mature then he and Conley do have some appeal though. Both are decent starters in 62, although neither has any extended value. Sorry for the misunderstanding and hope it hasn't put too big a monkey wrench in anyone's plans.

[leecemark]

--Lew, I think players on a multi-year FA deal should strictly get the bid amount for the life of the deal and not the raises that year to year players are getting.
--One change that we should make to the salaries for first round draft picks is 1M for first 3, 750K for players 4-6 and 500K for remaining first rounders. Two draft from now the rounds will be 12 deep, rather than 9 and I'd like to see all first rounders get a little more than later round picks.

[ElHalo]

Not sure if it's my turn in the draft or not. I got a PM saying it is (which I assume has expired), but either way, can I take Ed Charles?

[mac195]

...you could if he hadn't already been drafted. Check the list on page one of the thread.

[catcher24]

Posted by Mark:
I suppose if your approach is to just try and patch a team together each year until your future picks mature then he and Conley do have some appeal though.

Mark, you know that I of the notorious 250K pitching staff would never consider doing that!:p :laugh Anyway, the way I look at it is the lower I finish this year, the better my pick next.

I would appreciate it if everyone could take a quick look at Post 124. I posted a proposed rule, limiting the rookie draft to only players who will be debuting in the upcoming season. If it looks OK, I'll incorporate it into the rules. That would preclude any problems with this from now on (I hope).

EH, I took Ed Charles.

[ElHalo]

Sorry; I checked that post and must have missed it.

I swear I don't see this guy anywhere: Tommy Harper.

[leecemark]

--Harper was drafted by the Cannons. The list on page one hasn't been updated thru the last group of picks.
--These are the last remaining guys from my "possiblely usefull list";
C: Andy Etchebarren, Jake Gibbs, Bob Euker
1B: Ed Kranepool
2B: Ken Hubbs
3B: Ken McMullen
SS: Eddie Brinkman, Dick Trazewski, Al Weis (although he should be reserved for JW:waving ), Bobby Wine
OF: Manny Jimenez, Ken Berry, Ty Cline, Jose Tartabull, Jim Hickman, Bob Burda, Mike Hershberger, Mike Shannon
P; Sam Ellis, Dave Guisti, Cal Koonce, Joe Moeller, Howie Nunn, Dan Osinski, Jim Roland
--Obviously no stars left in this pool, but a few guys who have a good year or two or who could be usefull backups at minimum wage.

[catcher24]

You missed about six guys I have on my list, Mark. I PM'ed you with my pick, if EH can get a good one. Signing off now.

[leecemark]

--I must admit neither of the guys on you PMed me rang a bell for me. I'm definately done drafting now myself, with only one roster spot left and hopes of landing an impact free agent.

[ElHalo]

McMullen was my next choice, so I guess I go with him.

[J W]

I'm not done. I can still improve my team... I'll have some guys to get rid of by opening day, but if there's any year to have more than 40 guys count against your cap, it's this one. ;) There's nobody left that you can consider a game-breaker though. It's merely to fill in holes.

Lew of all people should still be drafting a number of players... he's got a lot of positions to fill.

The list is updated on page 1 btw--sorry about that, didn't anticipate it.

[leecemark]

--The Gamblers, Quakers and Knights have posted they will be passing on the rest of their picks. You can always change your mind, but I'll move ahead and announce the pick Lew gave me. The Legends take Don Stenhouse. Redbirds, Hard Cider and Skipjacks are next in line.

[baseballPAP]

The Redbirds will grab Berry, backup defensive OFer after I release someone. In fact, I'll go ahead and name the new guy on the waiver wire....not that anyone will want him, but he is Jesse Gonder.

The Redbirds are through, for the record.

~S

[mac195]

That puts the Cannons on the clock, I think.

[538280]

I'll take Cal Koonce.

[catcher24]

Posted by Mark:
The Legends take Don Stenhouse

Thanks, Mark for making that pick. But to set the record straight, the pick is DAVE Stenhouse.;)

Also, yes, I still have several picks to make. At this point, my list still has 13 names on it!:eek:

[catcher24]

Cannons picked, so if Mac is still drafting, he's on the clock. If not, JW is on the clock.

[mac195]

HC will take Sammy Ellis, and then pass on the rest of the draft.

[catcher24]

You know, Mac, you could have passed BEFORE you took Ellis!:grouchy Now my list is one shorter.

Guess that puts JW back on the clock, since Mark is done.

[J W]

Surprised this guy is still out there, considering...

The Skipjacks will select OF Al Luplow.

In order to maintain consistency, they'll release OF Jimmy Piersall to get back to 40 players.

[leecemark]

--Ellis has a great (or very good anyway) 64. I just ran out of space for guys who can't help this season (or next for that matter). Never heard of Stenhouse or Lupow. They both look like decent players this season though. JW, Lupow is rated AV/AV in RF/LF to go along with his pretty good bat.

[J W]

Awesome. Our outfield is set now with Yaz & Allison, Luplow backing them up, and a Geiger/Lock platoon in center.

Of course, if a Howard or Colavito come cheaply enough we'll snag him, but with the cap room some teams have I doubt it. Even Davis should be out of our price range.

[leecemark]

--Guess it depends on how many teams are in the market for outfielders. Mantle, Colavito and Howard are a pretty attractive trio in the PFA auction. I'd like to be able to afford one of them, but probably can't. Davis is nearly as good (at least for 1962) in the secondary, but only if you need his glove in CF. Not a need for me. There are a few other decent options in the secondary market as well.
--If you need pitching that will be harder to come by. O'Toole is worth a 3 year deal and would upgrade any rotation. Kralick would be decent on a 2 year deal. Thats pretty much it for both auctions as far as starting pitchers go though. McMahan is pretty much it for a real bullpen upgrade.

[ElHalo]

I'll forfeit my remaining picks.

[catcher24]

AAAGGHH! I keep forgetting that anyone who hasn't appeared on a CKL team yet is a rookie, by this year's definition. Luplow is another one I had pegged for the secondary free agent auction. I did go back through and find the guys who were real life rookies for the doormats, which is where I came up with Stenhouse. But I keep forgetting the others.

Anyway, since El Halo has given up drafting, I'm next and I'll take pitcher Jim Hannan. I guess that puts the Cannons on the clock.

BTW, JW, remember you can carry more than 40 players until final rosters/lineups have to be turned in. You could hang onto Piersall if you wanted.

[leecemark]

--Lew, I'm not certain but I think you may be the only one still drafting. If nobody states to the contrary in the 12 hour window starting now, you can go ahead and draft whoever you want left in the draft eligible pool. Anybody who indicates they are still drafting we'll reorder the draft from there. Chris, if you are drafting your clock is running now. The deadline for making picks in this draft is midnight EST tomorrow.

[catcher24]

Mark - By tomorrow, you mean Thursday at midnight, correct? If no one else posts anything by 9:15 tonight, I'll list the rest of the players I wanted to draft. Thanks!

[catcher24]

No one else appears to be drafting still. I have PM'ed my complete draft list to Mark (remaiing rookies, that is). If no one else has drafted any more rookies by tomorrow evening, I will post it. If someone else does draft, Mark has my list so he can enter my choices as needed. Thanks!

[J W]

The Skipjacks are looking at one more player, SP Jim Golden, but I have a couple questions:

- Is a pitcher's effectiveness as a starter or reliever in DM coincide with their starter/reliever splits in real life? If so, Golden is not worth my time as a starter (but would be useful for someone as a reliever).

- Is that line against (277/328/337) right? I would think that'd produce a better ERA+ than 92... and using retrosheet I see a much higher slugging% against (271/325/389).

Anyways if he's that good and can be used as such in my rotation I'll take him. If either condition is not met, the Skipjacks are done.

Lew: I'm not concerned about Piersall. Let him go in the secondary auction. There are one or two more players that may be cut by then as well. In a tighter cap environment they'd be gone already.

[leecemark]

--Lew, it appears to me that you are the only one still interested in adding anyone from the rookie pool. Take as many as you want, whenever you want. As long as its before midnight tomorrow when the draft officially ends.
--The first bids on PFAs (Mantle, Colavito, Howard, O'Toole, Aparicio, Versalles, Kralick, McMahan and Hansen may be cast anytime after 12:01 EST Friday. You may make multiple bids per post until the last hour of the draft, but your total bids may not exceed your available cap space. The bidding will be closed at 11PM EST. Bids cast by :00 will count (bids at :01 will not). During the last hour you may bid on only one player per post.
--Everybody please double check your payroll before casting bids. If you are under 40 players, remember that you need to save 250K for each spot short of that.

[leecemark]

--Golden is rated AV as a SP and VG as a RP. His era was 4.07, but his seconday numbers were worse (he gave up 15 unearned runs of his 84). He gave up 163 hits and walked 50 in those 152 IP. He was pretty good at keeping the ball in the park with only 13 HR allowed. To me he looks like an adequete spot/starter/longman/mop up guy, but nothing more. Whether that means you want him or not I don't know.

[The Dude]

Mark, I know I gave up my picks, but would it be possible to make one more pick since it seems, like you said, the rookie draft has basically fallen to whoever wants to make picks.

And my second question, is if someone was on the Doormats roster in 1961, but not in 1962, are they elligable for this draft, or no? If not, then my pick doesn't really matter.

[leecemark]

--The 1961 rosters of the doormats will be kept intact for the duration of their existence. Nobody from those teams will be available until they go into the expansion pool prior to 1964. But yes, you can still make another pick if you wish.

[catcher24]

Dude - Te emphasize what Mark said, no, no one from the 1961 doormats is eligible to draft. As Mark said, their rosters are frozen until the 1964 expansion. There were several I (and others) would likely have drafted otherwise. That being the case, sounds like everyone except me is done drafting rookies. Therefore, I will take the following nine :eek: players:
1. Joe Bonikowski - P
2. Dan Osinski - P
3. John Boozer - P
4. Tommie Sisk - P
5. Julio Navarro - P
6. Bob Botz - P
7. Merritt Ranew - C
8. Manny Jiminez - OF
9. Ted Savage - OF
That brings my roster to 32 and my payroll to 63.5 Million.

[mac195]

Wow. That's a real youth movement you've got going on the Legends, Lew.

[538280]

Since it doesn't appear Lew took him, I'll take Jim Roland.

[leecemark]

--I think the attached rosters are up to date. Please let me know if you see any discrepancies on your roster. The contract info has not been inserted for most players, but this may be helpfull if you are still trying to calculate where you are in payroll. JW, I was uncertain wether you had actually picked Golden or not, so he isn't on your roster. You also owe 750K to Jimmie Piersall that counts against your 1962 cap.
--The Knights have 39 players under contract for 85.75 M, leaving us 14M to spend on that last player (or players). I can not have more than 14M in open bids extended at any time during the auction. That means combined bids regardless of whether I expect (or even want) to win them all. An open bid is any one which is currently the high figure on a player. If I had the same 14M left, but only 33 players under contract then my max bid on any one player would be 12.5M on any one player, since I'd need to reserve 250K each for the remaining 6 players to round out my 40 man roster.
--Please get your current payroll and roster size posted before bidding starts tonight so everybody knows whats what.

[leecemark]

--Going thru the rosters attached above I found one (at least) error. I hadn't released Willie Davis from the Diablos roster. I also found 2 players on the Cannons DM roster that I don't see on theri roster post, Dick Lemay and Eddie Yost. What is the status of those players Chris?
--Going into the free agent process I have the Diablos as the team with the most money to spend (39.25M with 8 players needed) and the Legends right behind (36.75M also with 8 players needed). I have the least available money, but that is still 14.25M with only one player needed.
--The Skipjacks and Redbirds also have over 80M committed, but are at 40 and 39 players respectively. Everybody else has between 20 and 30 million to spend and nobody needs more than 8 players.
--I'll be starting a new thread shortly for the free agent process. Bidding begins midnight EST (the real action will be tomorrow though).

[J W]

We'll take Golden. Only a $.25 mil increase; I doubt that'll make a difference, this offseason. We might even turn around and cut him to get down to 40 man. :p