Eric Chavez?

[justice22]

obviously we know that chavez is one of the more elite 3b of our time, and possibly one of the best defenses. he is definately one of my favoite players. however, despite the fact that he may end up with nearly as many gold gloves as brooks robinson, i think voters will see that the gold glove isn't a good proof of a great player. in the past 2 years i believe he hasn't deserved it and his reputation was the only reason he earned it. idk, what do you people think?

[Naliamegod]

to early to tell

[Brad Harris]

Chavez just isn't as great as some people are making him out to be. He's at the point now where he really needs to put up 3-5 Hall of Fame-type offensive seasons - starting now - if he's going to become a serious candidate some day. The gold gloves are nice, but he's way down the list right now. If I'm not mistaken, he has about 143 win shares. This is the time, however, where he needs to be putting up 30+ win share seasons or his "peak" won't be so impressive. While he's certainly won at least one gold glove on reputation, Chavez remains one of the best fielding third basemen in MLB. I'm just extremely skeptical of how someone from this era will be treated if they're not pounding out 30+ HR year after year.

[digglahhh]

Especially against other 3Bs who are doing it. Chipper, A-Rod is now a 3B.

If Rolen is healthy and gets back to work you are going to have a guy with a better glove and better power numbers.

Meanwhile you have Miguel Cabrera moving to third and David Wright's emergence. Considering a healthy Rolen, by the end of the decade it could very well be the case that Chavez will wind up the 6th best 3B of the 2000's.

[Chisox]

Especially against other 3Bs who are doing it. Chipper, A-Rod is now a 3B.

If Rolen is healthy and gets back to work you are going to have a guy with a better glove and better power numbers.

Meanwhile you have Miguel Cabrera moving to third and David Wright's emergence. Considering a healthy Rolen, by the end of the decade it could very well be the case that Chavez will wind up the 6th best 3B of the 2000's.

Don't forget Glaus, either. And Glaus led his league in HR in 2000.

[KCGHOST]

Chavez is a very good player, but if he has hopes of getting a plaque he really needs to step it up and soon.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Chavez just isn't as great as some people are making him out to be. He's at the point now where he really needs to put up 3-5 Hall of Fame-type offensive seasons - starting now - if he's going to become a serious candidate some day. The gold gloves are nice, but he's way down the list right now. If I'm not mistaken, he has about 143 win shares. This is the time, however, where he needs to be putting up 30+ win share seasons or his "peak" won't be so impressive. While he's certainly won at least one gold glove on reputation, Chavez remains one of the best fielding third basemen in MLB. I'm just extremely skeptical of how someone from this era will be treated if they're not pounding out 30+ HR year after year.
You hit the nail on the head. Chavez is 28 years old now. Everyone has been waiting for him to bust out with some MVP type seasons. He needs to start having .320/.420/.600, 40 HR, 135 RBI type seasons. The question is, why hasn't he already done so? :confused:

[digglahhh]

Chavez is really not HOF material, IMO. He's a fine player, but remove him from the homer happy era and he's Graig Nettles with a league average BA. I'd take him on my team in a sec, but Cooperstown is higly unrealistic unless we are going to elect like 50 active players.

[dl4060]

It will be interesting to see what happens with him. He has been a very good player so far. Through age 25 he really looked outstanding, but he has not taken the great leap forward that one would like to see. If he keeps putting up numbers like this he will go down as a fine player, but not HOF matierial. If he can put together 6 or 7 years with an ops around .940, that would get him there. He has the introduction, he just needs to step it up.

[Pghfan987]

For those who watch him on a more regular basis than I do, how good is this guy? What do you think his chances are of making the hall? I know it is extremely early, but I am just wondering if you guys think he is on pace. If he continues hitting 30 homers and 100 RBIs for a while, and continues to be a great defensive force, will he be on the road to Cooperstown? Borderline? Not even close?

How would you compare his defense to A-Rod's and Rolen's? (Both players that I see a lot.) I suppose if Rolen does not make it, Chavez never will, but then again I always thought that Rolen was destined to be a lock.

Let's just go under the assumption that Chavez hits 30 homers and 100 RBIs until he is 34-35, then declines for a few years. I am just curious if he is on pace or not. I guess that I am only considering him if he wins a lot more gold gloves. Is he an all-time great defensively?

[Chisox]

I'm in the VAST minority here who thinks Rolen should make it.
IF, (big emphasis on if) Chavez does continue, I think he'll present a very interesting case.
Third base-men in the past 30 years, with those whose primary career post '90 in bold. Those who split time about evenly between the '80s and '90s are in italics.
George Brett
Mike Schmidt
Chipper Jones
Craig Nettles
Robin Ventura
Matt Williams
Scott Rolen
Wade Boggs
Darrell Evans
Ken Caminiti

I KNOW I'm missing someone and...
That doesn't figure in Paul Molitor (who I've got as a DH.) Just about any other time, and Chavez would be (if the HOF could ever get 3B right) a lock under your conditions. Not in this era.

[Rose4theHall]

I watch Chavez play about 140 times a year. Keep in mind he is still very young and is only now entering his peak years. I think the fact hes not a roider and will end up with 450+ HR will play into his hand, and is defense is simply spectacular, the best since Brooks Robinson. What wont play in his favor is Albert Pujols, Andruw Jones and Alex Rodriguez. Chavez has max 40 HR power and I cant see him going more than high 30s over the next 5-10 years. Its good, but when you have Albert overshadowing you in every offensive aspect it might sway some voters.

He slumped last year as the A's literally had no one at all hitting around him, causing pitchers to challenge him more (cuz whos scared of a rookie Dan Johnson anyway?), to his credit he got to 100 RBIs, but already this year with the additions of Frank Thomas and Milton Bradley he is starting out with what might be a career year offensively. His spike in strike outs last year was discerning but it seems he is trying to keep them down this year.

[DoubleX]

Chavez has starting out very young going for him, so he should pile on good counting numbers for a 3Bman, and he's got a great glove. Still, the Hall hasn't been too kind to 3Bman, and I don't expect Chavez (or Rolen) to make it, and I think Chipper Jones will struggle to get in.

[digglahhh]

I watch Chavez play about 140 times a year. Keep in mind he is still very young and is only now entering his peak years. I think the fact hes not a roider and will end up with 450+ HR will play into his hand, and is defense is simply spectacular, the best since Brooks Robinson. What wont play in his favor is Albert Pujols, Andruw Jones and Alex Rodriguez. Chavez has max 40 HR power and I cant see him going more than high 30s over the next 5-10 years. Its good, but when you have Albert overshadowing you in every offensive aspect it might sway some voters.

He slumped last year as the A's literally had no one at all hitting around him, causing pitchers to challenge him more (cuz whos scared of a rookie Dan Johnson anyway?), to his credit he got to 100 RBIs, but already this year with the additions of Frank Thomas and Milton Bradley he is starting out with what might be a career year offensively. His spike in strike outs last year was discerning but it seems he is trying to keep them down this year.

Scott Rolen says hi.:waving

And I don't know if we can just say that some people are rodiers and others aren't. I'm not saying I suspect him, just that I don't think we can use the fact that somebody didn't fail as test as a de facto positive, nor can we speculate based on physical appearance.

For what its worth, I think Chavez has a better chance of eventually making it than I feel he deserves, if that makes any sense.

[DoubleX]

Scott Rolen says hi.:waving

And I don't know if we can just say that some people are rodiers and others aren't. I'm not saying I suspect him, just that I don't think we can use the fact that somebody didn't fail as test as a de facto positive, nor can we speculate based on physical appearance.

For what its worth, I think Chavez has a better chance of eventually making it than I feel he deserves, if that makes any sense.

I agree about the steroids point. And while I don't suspect Chavez, I do believe that he is probably more suspect than other players because he plays in the Bay Area where Bonds, Velarde, Benard, Santiago, Giambi, Giambi, McGwire, and Canseco played, and there are rumors about Tejada too, not to mention BALCO being located there. It's suspiscion by association, it sucks, but that's the nature of the game now.

[Rose4theHall]

Scott Rolen says hi.:waving

And I don't know if we can just say that some people are rodiers and others aren't. I'm not saying I suspect him, just that I don't think we can use the fact that somebody didn't fail as test as a de facto positive, nor can we speculate based on physical appearance.

For what its worth, I think Chavez has a better chance of eventually making it than I feel he deserves, if that makes any sense.

Well yeah Rolen is also an A+ defensive 3B, but I dont watch him as much as I watch Chavvy, so you can see my bias there. We will have to wait until after he plays his age 30 season to compare them offsensively.

As for "roiders", what i mean is that: Bret Boone and other quick "flare outs" like Caminiti will absolutely NOT be in the running for the Hall and his huge stats wont be looked at when comparing Rolen's or Chavez's, BUT guys like A-Rod and Pujols will. Comprende? :D

[KCGHOST]

Eric Chavez is very good. He is fabulous on balls hit to his right, but only average on balls hit to his left. I don't think he is an HoFer because his bat is a little light considering the era he is playing in. He ranks behind Rolen in RCAA, WARP3, and EqA, but he is younger and could make up the ground.

Health could end up putting Chavez in the HoF and keeping Rolen out. Chavez may be able to put another 10 productive years on the boards which might get his counting numbers up to acceptable levels. On the other hand Rolen could end up being "short-careered".

[Brad Harris]

Rose4TheHall,

I'm jealous. The A's are one of those teams I really wish would appear in more nationally broadcast games (before October, that is.) I see Rolen play all the time - live in Missouri - but I have to say that Chavez has looked impressive the few times I've caught Oakland on the tube.

I also agree with your comments about the performers whose performance spikes are almost certainly a 'roids-only effect. Boone, Caminiti, Brady Anderson - guys like that. After Canseco's admissions, I think he torpedoed his own borderline candidacy there.

I'm anxious to see what things look like a generation from now, after all the dust has settled. Too many opinions about these things are driven by the media hype and not enough people put much independent thought into their positions. It's unfortunate, but why should sports fans be different from the rest of Americans, after all?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Eric Chavez is very good. He is fabulous on balls hit to his right, but only average on balls hit to his left. I don't think he is an HoFer because his bat is a little light considering the era he is playing in. He ranks behind Rolen in RCAA, WARP3, and EqA, but he is younger and could make up the ground.

Health could end up putting Chavez in the HoF and keeping Rolen out. Chavez may be able to put another 10 productive years on the boards which might get his counting numbers up to acceptable levels. On the other hand Rolen could end up being "short-careered".
For years many have predicted monster years from Chavez. He needs to starts having big years, .320/45 HR/140 RBI type seasons, like, starting now. :o

[Chisox]

Scott Rolen says hi.:waving
So do Robin Ventura and Graig Nettles. But, we get the point.

For what its worth, I think Chavez has a better chance of eventually making it than I feel he deserves, if that makes any sense.
I'm still debating that.
I think Chavez's main competition (as of now) is Rolen, and I think he might end up with a better career, although he's nowhere near there now. I don't think he's going to be anywhere near Chipper, though. I think A LOT has to do with how his competition does. Think about Blalock. He might not even be considered the best 3B in his own division, let a lone league, of his era. That would probably be devastating.

[Pghfan987]

For years many have predicted monster years from Chavez. He needs to starts having big years, .320/45 HR/140 RBI type seasons, like, starting now. :o
Thanks for the input, guys.

I guess the reason that I thought might make Chavez appealing to HOF voters down the road would be if he won 10-15 GGs, putting him in elite company. I was thinking that he did not need to put up Pujols-like numbers, because he has a Brooks-type glove (or does he?) If he hit 400-450 homers AND was an all-time great defensively, he would make an appealing case. It's early; I am curious if he or A-Rod wins the GG this year.

[Sockeye]

I realize this may be a bit premature but I was discussing Eric Chavez with a few friends of mine. He's 28 and in his 9th season. I would like to get some thoughts on his career thus far and if possible some insight on where you think his career totals will end up? I know this calls for a lot of speculation. So I'll be the first to throw some projections out there.

I think he could very well end up with

Games 2701
At-Bats 9783
Runs 1556
Hits 2693
Doubles 580
Triples 42
Home Runs 498
RBI's 1690
Stolen Bases 105
Walks 1134
AVG .275
OBP .350
SLG .496

[538280]

I realize this may be a bit premature but I was discussing Eric Chavez with a few friends of mine. He's 28 and in his 9th season. I would like to get some thoughts on his career thus far and if possible some insight on where you think his career totals will end up? I know this calls for a lot of speculation. So I'll be the first to throw some projections out there.

I think he could very well end up with

Games 2701
At-Bats 9783
Runs 1556
Hits 2693
Doubles 580
Triples 42
Home Runs 498
RBI's 1690
Stolen Bases 105
Walks 1134
AVG .275
OBP .350
SLG .496

The same BA, OBP, and SLG? That's not going to happen, those things are bound to go down. I think your projection is rather inflated.

Here's some advice in making your projections-realize that most players don't play through their 30s. It's only the best players that do that. Most players have problems in their 30s and are done by at least 35. Your projections seem to assume perfect health and playing through those ages, but the reality is probaly only 5-10% of players actually get that.

On Chavez, there's really no way to tell at this point. If he does well over the next ten years, he's in, if not, then no. Why is it we're having so many threads on active players lately?

[leecemark]

--When you start out by writing "this may be premature" the best thing to do is just back up and let the question wait a few years. My answer to this poll is one not offered "too early to say". I will say I like Chavez chances better than Beltre's though.

[RedSoxVT92]

Chavez is good. He has hit 30 homers twice and has gotten more than 25 yet not getting 30, 4 times. Also has 4 100 RBI seasons with an average around .270 to .280. Good defensivley at 3rd with 5 straight Gold Gloves and a silver slugger at third. But he has only led once in any major catagory(bases on balls). But it is too early to really tell. He has only had 6 full seasons and who knows if he will get injured or if he'll have a sharp decline or what. Maybe once his career is done we can revist this but it is too premature to be discussing it now.

[Sockeye]

When you combine his offensive numbers with his defense (5 gold gloves) along with the fact that he began his career at a young age and has excellent counting totals for his age. I think it very likely that Eric Chavez will end up in the HOF.

[DoubleX]

When you combine his offensive numbers with his defense (5 gold gloves) along with the fact that he began his career at a young age and has excellent counting totals for his age. I think it very likely that Eric Chavez will end up in the HOF.

I wouldn't yet call it very likely, as he's a long way off and lots of things can happen between now and then. If he can keep it up into his mid 30s, I'd say he will have a pretty good shot, but that's easier said than done.

[Sockeye]

I wouldn't yet call it very likely, as he's a long way off and lots of things can happen between now and then. If he can keep it up into his mid 30s, I'd say he will have a pretty good shot, but that's easier said than done.

I think it doubtful that a player the quality of Eric Chavez both offensively and defensively will be out of baseball at an early age. I just don't see it happening. I think it much more likely that he'll play into his late 30's or possibly age 40.

[Sockeye]

Interesting results so far.

[Rose4theHall]

For years many have predicted monster years from Chavez. He needs to starts having big years, .320/45 HR/140 RBI type seasons, like, starting now. :o

Is this April okay for you? hahaha he is finally on his way to a monster year, thanks to having a certain 6'5" 270 pound guy hitting behind him ;)

[Fuzzy Bear]

Chavez hurt his chances this year. He had an OK year, but nothing that projected him forward. Why Chavez, for example, and not Scott Rolen? Aramis Ramirez? Granted that there is a huge difference in parks, Ramirez did much more to help himself toward the HOF than did Chavez this year.

Chavez, like Jason Kendall, needs to get out of Oakland to bolster his chances. He needs to get to a park that will help his batting stats a bit.

[AlecBoy006]

I dunno.

I'm currently on the fence with him. I'm currently leading toward no, but could go either way.

[KCGHOST]

I think if Chavez could maintain his overall level of play and get some real TV exposure he has a modest chance. He is a wonderful defender and if people would add his defensive value to his good bat he would have a real chance. The key of course is that at age 29 in 2007 he has a lot of work remaining to get the counting numbers he will need.

[Cougar]

Chavez hasn't taken the next step offensively that the A's expected him to when they made the decision to retain him rather than Miguel Tejada. He's stagnated, and perhaps even regressed a bit. I don't think there's any way now that Chavez can be expected to compile a HOF offensive resume, even when giving all due consideration to his superior defense at third base.

[yanks0714]

Why is it we're having so many threads on active players lately?

I had the same thought. Look at the ages of those running these threads. You are an exception among our younger posters in that you have a very real interest in actual baseball history. Most youngsters have virtually no interest in history, period, whether it's baseball or general U.S. History.
They live for today and what's past is past and no use looking back.

When I was young my Father instilled a sense of American History (as well as baseball) in me. Much sightseeing of historical sites and reading U.S>.History. I still read historical books. But even in the 1960's and 1970's when I came of age, youngsters had virtually no interest in nistory. I used to be astounded at the lack of knowledge. From what I've learned it's even worse today. Sad actually.

[Fuzzy Bear]

I think if Chavez could maintain his overall level of play and get some real TV exposure he has a modest chance. He is a wonderful defender and if people would add his defensive value to his good bat he would have a real chance. The key of course is that at age 29 in 2007 he has a lot of work remaining to get the counting numbers he will need.

Chavez' problem is that his glove is not recognized a la Brooks Robinson. If Brooks Robinson hadn't had the 1970 World Series he had, and hadn't won all of those Gold Gloves in the manner in which he won them, he would have had a tough time getting into the HOF.

If Chavez establishes himself, clearly, as the best DEFENSIVE third baseman in baseball (which he may do once Rolen's back goes South), he COULD make the HOF at the offensive level he's at now. Oddly enough, he'd be a better bet that way.

[Fatbill]

He's probably going to end up with 10-12 Gold Gloves & 350-400 HR, and that's automatic to me.

[Cougar]

He's probably going to end up with 10-12 Gold Gloves & 350-400 HR, and that's automatic to me.

I hope you're right, but I don't see him doing that well. I suspect the second half of his career won't match his first. He'll be hurt more, losing plate appearances, power, and some of his defensive skill. Also, his BA will likely continue to decline. He'll probably make 300 hr, but 400 is a stretch.

[plask_stirlac]

Chavez hasn't taken the next step offensively that the A's expected him to when they made the decision to retain him rather than Miguel Tejada. He's stagnated, and perhaps even regressed a bit. I don't think there's any way now that Chavez can be expected to compile a HOF offensive resume, even when giving all due consideration to his superior defense at third base.

I agree, these last two would be very lean years for a HOF run, and I'm not sure he'll get much better. Piazza at 38 could equal him in hitting or do better, and even with good 3B defense that's kind of a blow.

Did Ken Boyer get much support, or does he get much? He isn't mentioned very much now, and he was as good as Chavez or better, batting and defensive metrics show him ahead.

[538280]

I had the same thought. Look at the ages of those running these threads. You are an exception among our younger posters in that you have a very real interest in actual baseball history. Most youngsters have virtually no interest in history, period, whether it's baseball or general U.S. History.
They live for today and what's past is past and no use looking back.

When I was young my Father instilled a sense of American History (as well as baseball) in me. Much sightseeing of historical sites and reading U.S>.History. I still read historical books. But even in the 1960's and 1970's when I came of age, youngsters had virtually no interest in nistory. I used to be astounded at the lack of knowledge. From what I've learned it's even worse today. Sad actually.

My father is a history teacher. I'm pretty sure I have an appreciation of history. Nothing wrong with discussing possibilities of modern players making it to the HOF though-the number of these type threads has gone down since when I originally made that comment. It's just that then almost everything on this forum was about current player's chances and the threads about past players were very few and far between.

[538280]

I agree, these last two would be very lean years for a HOF run, and I'm not sure he'll get much better. Piazza at 38 could equal him in hitting or do better, and even with good 3B defense that's kind of a blow.

Did Ken Boyer get much support, or does he get much? He isn't mentioned very much now, and he was as good as Chavez or better, batting and defensive metrics show him ahead.

Ken Boyer gets a ton of HOF support. He's better than Chavez (at least at this point in Chavez's career), but can be overrated around here IMO. He played in a much higher run context than many realize. He gets attention as being right with Santo but doesn't deserve it IMO.

[Colorado Express]

I'd give him a chance if he ended up with the numbers you've projected, but I hardly doubt that he'll approach those.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Chavez hurt himself badly in 2007 in his quest for the HOF. His OWP was below .500 for a second year, and he didn't win the Gold Glove for the first time since 2000.

Chavez missed time with injuries, so he might rebound next year; he's going to be just 30 next year. Still, you've got to be concerned about a guy who has his WORST years at ages 28 and 29; that doesn't auger will for the future. If Chavez' ability has stabilized at the leve of the last two seasons, he will NOT go into the HOF. Indeed, if we've already seen Chavez' best and he's a .480 OWP player, he's in danger of being out of the majors by age 35. Two years ago Chavez was on a HOF path; it's now slipping away from him fast.

[RubeBaker]

There should be an "I don't know" choice here. He may get in on the "Ozzie Smith clause", not a great hitter, but an outstanding defensive player. I think the next couple of seasons are going to be make or break for him. If he can get back into his .280 BA, 30 homer, 125 OPS+ form, he'll have a shot but not a guarantee. If he continues this .240 BA, 15 HR, 105 OPS+ stuff, there is no way he'll make it.

[Cougar]

There should be an "I don't know" choice here. He may get in on the "Ozzie Smith clause", not a great hitter, but an outstanding defensive player. I think the next couple of seasons are going to be make or break for him. If he can get back into his .280 BA, 30 homer, 125 OPS+ form, he'll have a shot but not a guarantee. If he continues this .240 BA, 15 HR, 105 OPS+ stuff, there is no way he'll make it.

I'm very skeptical of the "Ozzie Smith clause" being effective here. The third base equivalent of Ozzie would be Brooks Robinson, I think. Not only is Chavez not the defender Brooks was, I'm not even certain he's as good an offensive player. There's no case there.

[Cowtipper]

How does one get these projections? According to Bill James' Favorite Toy, he's may hit around 363 home runs, not the nearly 500 that you are suggesting. I cannot find one instance where he was ever on pace for many more than 400 career home runs, actually.

[jalbright]

How does one get these projections? According to Bill James' Favorite Toy, he's may hit around 363 home runs, not the nearly 500 that you are suggesting. I cannot find one instance where he was ever on pace for many more than 400 career home runs, actually.

I gather you're talking about Sockeye's projections at the start of the thread, and they were his creation. He never shared many specifics about how they were reached, despite inquiries seeking them. You can try again, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Zito75]

Chavez is a good player, not a great one. He can't seem to put together healthy seasons, and he has no protection in the line-up. He plays great D, but it's not at the Ozzie Smith level. He might get some HOF votes but he'll fall far short from getting in...:shrug:

[Frank]

As of right now I would say No,,Now if Chavez the next 5-seasons puts up some pretty good numbers things can change..Right now compare his stats to-Ron Santo's first 10 seasons...
__Chavez-age 20-29{10 seasons}__
Hits-1,225
HR-227
RBI-762
AVG-.269
GG-6

__Santo-age 20-29{10 seasons}__
Hits-1,592
HR-253
RBI-937
AVG-.281
GG-5

[Cowtipper]

Also noteworthy is the fact that by the time Santo was 29, he had been an All-Star six times.

How many times has Chavez been an All-Star? Exactly zero.

Without a doubt, Chavez's first 10 years were nothing compared to those of Ron Santo.

[Zito75]

Also noteworthy is the fact that by the time Santo was 29, he had been an All-Star six times.

How many times has Chavez been an All-Star? Exactly zero.

Without a doubt, Chavez's first 10 years were nothing compared to those of Ron Santo.

Good point. I thought for sure he made the team as an alternate- guess not. 3B has been pretty stacked in the AL for the past 10 years or so... It's hard when you're going up against Ripken, A-Rod, Glaus, Blalock, etc...

[Fuzzy Bear]

Also noteworthy is the fact that by the time Santo was 29, he had been an All-Star six times.

How many times has Chavez been an All-Star? Exactly zero.

Without a doubt, Chavez's first 10 years were nothing compared to those of Ron Santo.

That Chavez has never been an All-Star, given his performance is an astonishing fact, and an incredible injustice to Chavez and his fans. Let's look at who was selected, and how they compare offensively to Chavez, who was the Gold Glove 3B every year from 2001 through 2005 (OWP of each player that year is next to their names in parentheses):

2000 ASG third basemen: Travis Fryman (.641), Cal Ripken (.416), Troy Glaus (.691), Tony Batista (.475), Eric Chavez (.559).

2001 ASG third basemen: Cal Ripken (.287), Troy Glaus (.633), Eric Chavez (.624)

2002 ASG third basemen: Shea Hillenbrand (.518), Tony Batista (.472), Robin Ventura (.582), Eric Chavez (.622)

2003 ASG third basemen: Troy Glaus (.544), Hank Blalock (.603), Eric Chavez (.601)

2004 ASG third basemen: Alex Rodriguez (.635), Hank Blalock (.589), Eric Chavez (.624)

2005 ASG third basemen: Alex Rodriguez (.792), Melvin Mora (.583), Eric Chavez (.558)

Chavez has slumped over the last two years, and did not deserve to be an ASG selection in 2006-2007. But 2006 was the first time since 2000 that Troy Glaus was selected over Chavez and actually deserved it.

Chavez was clearly, IMO, a better pick than Blalock in 2004 AND 2004, and a better pick than Mora in 2005. Chavez was, arguably, more valuable than A-Rod in 2004; he was the Gold Glover at third, and was only .012 behind A-Rod in OWP. He was clearly, IMO, the best third baseman in the league from 2001-2003. The only reason Chavez might have not deserved selection in 2004, would have been Melvin Mora and his .737 OWP, who was not selected until the following year. On the other hand, Chavez probably had a better year than A-Rod, by a hair that year, if you factor in defense.

Chavez, IMO, CLEARLY deserved to be an All-Star selection in 2001-2004, and was arguably deserving of ASG selection in2005. That would leave Chavez with 3-5 ASG selections. Chavez was CLEARLY the best third baseman in the AL from 2001-2003, and even has a case for 2004. While he has slumped the last two years, and while there may be injury issues that has caused him to stabilize at a lower ability level, Chavez is still young, and may be able to get back to where he was. 2008 is an incredibly key year for Chavez. But there is no question that Chavez has been shafted by the fans and by the managers in ASG selections; that a player of his magnitude has not gone even once is simply inexplicable and indefensible.

[Go get em Tigers]

Sure, he's only 30 years old. He has 227 HR's and 762 career rbi's. He might finish with 350/1100. Not exactly HOF numbers, I don't think. I love the gold gloves, but HOF popularity starts with All Star appearances. I wonder how many All Star appearances the average HOFer has? 10?

[Fuzzy Bear]

Sure, he's only 30 years old. He has 227 HR's and 762 career rbi's. He might finish with 350/1100. Not exactly HOF numbers, I don't think. I love the gold gloves, but HOF popularity starts with All Star appearances. I wonder how many All Star appearances the average HOFer has? 10?

I would think that the average HOFer has about seven (7) all-star appearances. The superstars, of course, have more; they are perennial all-stars, voted in by the fans long after their skills have waned (e.g. Cal Ripken).

There are lots of reasons why some guys don't have more All-Star selections. Eddie Mathews, a clear HOFer for sure, was only selected to the All-Star game in eight separate years (he played in 12 games due to the period 1959-62 when MLB hosted two annual ASGs). Sometimes a guy isn't elected to start and doesn't go because another team has a guy having a great year at his position and he's that team's only REAL All-Star.

Still, it's pretty amazing that a guy like Chavez, who's been the AL GG winner at third base has NEVER been selected. There are other guys who have played in surprisingly few ASGs, but that Chavez has NEVER been selected is really remarkable. I can't think of another player of Chavez' quality at a position NOT at the far left of the defensive spectrum (1B, LF, DH) who has NEVER been selected to the ASG at his age and at the point in his career where he is at.

[Dodgerfan1]

I'm a huge Eric Chavez fan and even I know better than this... no way does Chavy belong in the HOF.

[Cowtipper]

These can be combined;

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=42482&highlight=Chavez
http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=42191&highlight=Chavez

[Iso7x]

I have to vote no. And as much as I have loved watching Chavez play, an incredible glove with power, his injuries have really set his career back. Not sure off the top of my head how old he is, maybe he can put together, as been stated before a nice 5 year run, but it might be too late.

Iso7x

[ol' aches and pains]

No, he's not a HOF player.

1. As the poster above points out, he's been plagued by injuries. His last healthy season was 2005. In the four seasons since, he has averaged 65 games per year.

2. If Ron Santo isn't a hall-of-famer, Eric Chavez certainly isn't.

[brett]

No, he's not a HOF player.

1. As the poster above points out, he's been plagued by injuries. His last healthy season was 2005. In the four seasons since, he has averaged 65 games per year.


On top of this, his PEAK is probably not among the top 15 or even 20 all time at third base-though that includes a lot of tweener players like Allen, Perez, Molitor, Torre.

His 5-6 year peak is what a player would have to put up for a CAREER (2100+ games) to be in the running.

[Paul Wendt]

2. If Ron Santo isn't a hall-of-famer, Eric Chavez certainly isn't.
Opinion is nearly unanimous here that Ron Santo "is a hall-of-famer". The ongoing Purgatory project in this forum has also turned up majorities in favor of Darrell Evans, Stan Hack, Heinie Groh, John Beckwith, Ken Boyer, Graig Nettles, Ezra Sutton, and Tommy Leach. With Santo they are nine of the 54 majority approved players.

On the other hand, if Eric Chavez repeated his career twice he wouldn't be in this group.

P.S. This poll was posted four seasons ago, following the first season for Chavez down from his 2000-2004 peak. But he had played 160 games. Only now we may confidently call 2005 his first year over the hill.

[Fuzzy Bear]

He looks like he's done, and he hasn't done enough. If Eric Chavez, why not Al Rosen? (Indeed, I think Rosen's case stands on its own, but that's another story.)

[538280]

Not even close, he looks like he's done with a career of about 1300 games. He would have to keep up his current rates for about 700 more games to become a borderline candidate like Ken Boyer, Sal Bando, Bob Elliott, Heinie Groh, and a few others. He had some very good seasons but not really seasons that would be peak years for a HOFer-and he has really burned out quickly. He looks like he's done and he's only 31 years old.

[Cowtipper]

He certainly hasn't helped himself these past four years, averaging 64 games, a .237 average and 10 home runs a year. It's a shame, because prior to 2006 he was a pretty solid third baseman.