Bob Feller says no Hall of Fame for Barry Bonds

[runningshoes]

This should be interesting. :D

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Legendary pitcher Bob Feller, who has been in baseball's Hall of Fame longer than any other living player, said on Monday controversial superstar Barry Bonds should be kept out of the exclusive club.

Bonds, who owns baseball's single-season home-run record, has been under intense scrutiny since excerpts of a new book last week said he actively used steroids for at least five seasons.

"He's not going to get the numbers when it comes to Cooperstown," Feller, 87, who was elected to the Hall of Fame in 1962, told Reuters.

"Those players who have been convicted of using steroids or are caught using them are not going to get the numbers to be elected to the Hall of Fame when they become eligible for that great honor. And I am with them on that."

http://today.reuters.com/News/newsArticle.aspx?type=sportsNews&storyID=2006-03-14T024626Z_01_N13310348_RTRUKOC_0_US-BASEBALL-BONDS.xml

[KCGHOST]

Rapid Robert is entitled to his opinion and while I agree with the sentiment it is going to be hard to keep Bonds out.

[Tigerfan1974]

I agree with Bob about users and I agree that Bonds does not belong.
However, I also think that Bonds will indeed make it.

Bob is not a voter and therefore does not know what will happen.
After all, is was Bob who said that "The Catch" by Mays was far from the best he ever saw!

[Brownie31]

This should be interesting. :D



http://today.reuters.com/News/newsArticle.aspx?type=sportsNews&storyID=2006-03-14T024626Z_01_N13310348_RTRUKOC_0_US-BASEBALL-BONDS.xml

Bob Feller is an honorable man & straight shooter! He is a credit to baseball which is certainly more than Bonds is! Feller served his country in World War II as an ordinary seaman on the USS Alabama battleship. One of the Greatest Generation's Greats! Brownie31

[rockin500]

I agree with Bob about users and I agree that Bonds does not belong.
However, I also think that Bonds will indeed make it.

Bob is not a voter and therefore does not know what will happen.
After all, is was Bob who said that "The Catch" by Mays was far from the best he ever saw!
he's hardly alone in thinking that play is the greatest ever.

[Cubsfan97]

I agree with Feller. When Bonds is found with steroids I hope hes banned for life.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

After all, is was Bob who said that "The Catch" by Mays was far from the best he ever saw!


This may open up a whole new thread but lets be honest there are probably a dozen or more greater catches than the one Mays made and I'm talking World Series play. The catch that Willie made probably only a small number of players could have made it was a great catch no doubt. To be honest, we have to remember although a long run Willie knew he had no wall or fence to contend with, he had all the room in the world. The more difficult catches are when the outfielder has to watch the ball and at the same time "eye up" a fence or a wall he may run into.

There have been a number of catches that had a greater degree of difficulty that the catch Willie made.

How do you doubt that what Bob says is true, that he saw some catches that were better than the catch Willie made, is that hard to believe.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

I agree with Bob about users and I agree that Bonds does not belong.
However, I also think that Bonds will indeed make it.

Bob is not a voter and therefore does not know what will happen.
After all, is was Bob who said that "The Catch" by Mays was far from the best he ever saw!

That catch wasn't all that impressive in and of itself. What made it special was the player who made it, the impact of the moment, and the spinning throw didn't hurt ;) The actual catch though, in terms of diffulty, isn't too high up on the scale.

[Riverdog]

It's guys like Bobby Feller that have made the game what it is today. The fact that he agrees with most of us doesn't hurt. If Bonds makes the hall it will be a very sad day for our game.

[Blackout]

It's guys like Bobby Feller that have made the game what it is today. The fact that he agrees with most of us doesn't hurt. If Bonds makes the hall it will be a very sad day for our game.
very well put

[Big Lou1224]

Barry Bonds was already in the HOF when the book claims he started using steroids...

Barry Bonds is a HOFer...no doubt about it. Baseball is to blame for the supposedly rampant steroid use that went on during the late 90's..

They loved how the McGwire and Sosa HR chase brought fans back to baseball, to chastise the players alone is ridiculous.

[Blackout]

Barry Bonds was already in the HOF when the book claims he started using steroids...

Barry Bonds is a HOFer...no doubt about it. Baseball is to blame for the supposedly rampant steroid use that went on during the late 90's..

They loved how the McGwire and Sosa HR chase brought fans back to baseball, to chastise the players alone is ridiculous.

Joe Jackson was a HOFer before he was banned from baseball. At the time, MLB had no rule in place about throwing games, and no rule was put in place until 1920

that didn't stop Joe from being banned perminantly

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Barry Bonds was already in the HOF when the book claims he started using steroids...
[ I go with that, I would think regardless of what we now know Barry will probably get into the HOF] SHOELESJOE3


Baseball is to blame for the supposedly rampant steroid use that went on during the late 90's..

[ Still not buying that ghetto defense. Agreed baseball should have had a testing program for steroids and amphetamines long ago and this whole deal would not have blown up in their face. Still in the end it's those that were the users, made that choice that are to blame for their actions] SHOELESSJOE3

They loved how the McGwire and Sosa HR chase brought fans back to baseball, to chastise the players alone is ridiculous.

Thar they did, loved it.

[Tigerfan1974]

This may open up a whole new thread but lets be honest there are probably a dozen or more greater catches than the one Mays made and I'm talking World Series play. The catch that Willie made probably only a small number of players could have made it was a great catch no doubt. To be honest, we have to remember although a long run Willie knew he had no wall or fence to contend with, he had all the room in the world. The more difficult catches are when the outfielder has to watch the ball and at the same time "eye up" a fence or a wall he may run into.

There have been a number of catches that had a greater degree of difficulty that the catch Willie made.

How do you doubt that what Bob says is true, that he saw some catches that were better than the catch Willie made, is that hard to believe.

I think there are greater plays as well.
But the Mays catch was a great play, and perhaps one of the best plays to that time(?).
Certainly one of the earliest 'great' catches recorded for posterity on video.

[Metal Ed]

Feller's cranky. He indicated that Pete Rose's hits record should have an asterisk next it? Why?

[runningshoes]

Feller's cranky. He indicated that Pete Rose's hits record should have an asterisk next it? Why?

His number of at-bats?

[west coast orange and black]

sultan: The actual catch though, in terms of diffulty, isn't too high up on the scale.

it certainly does not rate all that highly on mays' own chart.

[west coast orange and black]

feller is certainly entitled to his opinion. that he is an honorable man and a credit to the game makes others take notice.

but i believe that bonds will get in in his first year of eligibility.
it's messy and imperfect, but a great number of voters realize just how many have done what for so long an are not going to be hypocritical.

[brooklyndodger14]

[ Still not buying that ghetto defense. Agreed baseball should have had a testing program for steroids and amphetamines long ago and this whole deal would not have blown up in their face. Still in the end it's those that were the users, made that choice that are to blame for their actions] SHOELESSJOE3

They loved how the McGwire and Sosa HR chase brought fans back to baseball, to chastise the players alone is ridiculous.

Thar they did, loved it.

True, the McGwire/Sosa contest brought fans back to baseball following the 1994 debacle, but as it has been discovered from last year's Congressional testimony that they too are under suspicion of steroids usage, their "achievements" will sadly be forever perceived as dishonest, as will Bonds' post 1998 accomplishments. I believe the ramifications will be enormous.

Dennis
BrooklynDodger14

[StanTheMan]

For the last time....:grouchy the "there was no rule against it" argument is both moronic and incredibly short-sided. (Please note I'm criticizing the "argument" not the argue-er) :D

IF it was OK for Bonds to do Steroids (or McGwire, or Sosa) in 1998, 1999, 2000, insert year here..... Then-----

Why did he not inject himself in public? Stick a syringe into his arse right there in the on deck circle. Squeeze some of the "Clear" into his postgame beverage of choice, while dozens of reporters looked on.

When asked questions about his power surge, or "can you break the record Barry?" why did he not answer... "He!! yes I can break the record, I am injecting myself with Clomid every other day, and I drank a gallon of the Clear yesterday.... can you please rub some of this "cream" on my belly? Hey, who wants to pop some back acne for me?????"

There was no rule against it... but there was a LAW in the United States of America that said you could not posess it, sell it, etc.

End of discussion.

I have confidence that there are enough intelligent writers in this country that will realize that the HOF is NOT a court of Law.... the HOF does NOT need "beyond a reasonable doubt."

With the information we now have, neither Bonds, nor McGwire (he can't talk about his past --well then, we should not honor it!!), nor Sosa ("I never took any illegal drugs while in the USA...." -- but what about when you were in Central America Sammy????) are Hall of Fame Worthy in my book. They can however, buy a ticket and go in if they would like.

Tens of Thousands of player have played this beautiful game over the years, what, less than 300 are in the HOF?

Even the slightest HINT of Steroid use should keep a player out until further info is uncovered, IMO. And these three should wait until we know more... Heck, with what I know now, they should have to PROVE TO US that they did not do it.

Again, the HOF is not a court of law. :grouchy :grouchy :grouchy :grouchy

[Louder]

Bonds was a great player before the took steriods, if he retired in 1997 the all-time leftfielders would have been 1. Ted Williams 2. Barry Bonds. I can understand the hard feeling about Bonds, but he was/is one of the greatest player ever.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Bonds was a great player before the took steriods, if he retired in 1997 the all-time leftfielders would have been 1. Ted Williams 2. Barry Bonds. I can understand the hard feeling about Bonds, but he was/is one of the greatest player ever.

Gotta disagree with you there. Rickey and Musial would both have a case over Bonds; he'd be my fourth at best.

[runningshoes]

Just in case anyone has either forgotten or is oblivious.


Rule 5:

voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.

[brooklyndodger14]

Scribes got it Hall wrong about Bonds and bad guys


By MICHAEL O'KEEFFE

Because I am a Marxist - as Groucho famously put it, I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member - I've never joined the Baseball Writers Association of America, the organization that chooses the players to be inducted into the Hall of Fame. So when Barry Bonds becomes a candidate for Cooperstown in a few years, my opinion on whether Bonds should be enshrined won't matter.
But unlike many journalists who have weighed in on Bonds and "Game of Shadows," the new book that exhaustively details Bonds' steroid use, I do have one qualification.

I have read BBWAA's rules for election to the Hall of Fame. Rule 5 says "voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played."

If the allegations in "Game of Shadows" are accurate, Bonds' integrity, sportsmanship and character are well below the Mendoza line, and the only way Bonds should get into Cooperstown is if he buys a ticket.

Yet I'm amazed at how some Hall of Fame voters have twisted logic and reason to argue that Bonds still belongs in baseball's hall of immortals.

Many apologists say it is not fair to bar Bonds because cheaters such as spitballer Gaylord Perry have already been inducted. That's like saying a lie about sex with a White House intern is the same as a lie about weapons of mass destruction: Although both are fibs, only one led to shattered lives and needless deaths.

Don't the apologists have a sense of context? Perry's legacy was greasy catcher's mitts and a boost in Vaseline sales. Bonds' cheating, meanwhile, contributed to a fundamental shift in American culture - kids, after all, emulate sports heroes. Many young ballplayers now believe performance-enhancing drugs are necessary to reach the top of their game, even if it puts them at risk for liver disease, sexual dysfunction, 'roid rage and other health problems. Some kids who have experimented with steroids have committed suicide. Others will die more slowly.

Some say you can't keep Bonds out because there are already plenty of bad characters - crazy, violent, racist Ty Cobb, for example - in Cooperstown. They say you can't deny Bonds because another player who used steroids without arousing suspicion might get in, and that's just not fair. That's ridiculous - and it's like saying the NYPD shouldn't pursue Imette St. Guillen's killer because other sickos have gotten away with murder in the past.

Yet others say Bonds shouldn't be punished by Hall of Fame voters because baseball didn't have an official steroid policy until 2002. Huh? In 1991, the federal government classified steroids as a controlled substance, making the sale, distribution and use of steroids without a prescription a criminal act. Two months later, commissioner Fay Vincent issued a memo stating that any player caught using illegal drugs, including steroids, faced expulsion from the game. Maybe that wasn't clear enough for Bonds and his fans in the press?

It isn't fair to place all the blame of baseball's doping scandal solely on Bonds. As the Daily News reported last year, Major League Baseball security ignored the FBI agent who warned about the game's growing steroid problem 10 years ago. The union couldn't even admit there was a problem until it was bullied by Congress. And Bonds is hardly the only player who added pop to his bat by using Winstrol or Deca Durabolin.

But if Hall of Fame voters say they are willing to overlook Bonds' steroid use, maybe they need to take a long, hard look at their own integrity, sportsmanship and character.


Published in the New York Daily News
Sunday, March 19, 2006

Dennis
BrooklynDodger14

[STLCards2]

I look at how much I can logicaly reason steroids helped the player. This would factor in when they started using, and how long they used. Bonds was already a top 25 all-time player after the 1998 season, thereofore the steroid use that came after did not make him a Hall of Fame player. Despite how much I dislike steroid use, and Bonds personaly, I see no way Bonds can be kept out.

McGwire on the other hand was a one diminsional player. The steroids he took just happened to greatly increase that one diminsion. If not for steroids, McGwire probably would have been out of baseball by 1994 with the many injuries he faced. No HOF for Mac.

Palmeiro was never a "great" player even with steroids, even though I would definately put a clean Palmeiro with his set of number in Cooperstown. It looks like Palmeiro would have been Mark Grace without 'roids, so I would say no on Plameiro.

As much as I believe Sosa is a user, except for speculation because of his incredible peak, there has been no evidence or even creidible suggestion by teamates, etc. that Sosa has used. Until it happens ( which may happen at any time), Sosa to me is off limits.

Of course there is no way to really know to what degree steroids increase performance for individual players, so I would agree that it is difficult to know for sure.

One more thing, I would love to know how many/which pitchers were on 'roids!

[Mattingly]

Gotta disagree with you there. Rickey and Musial would both have a case over Bonds; he'd be my fourth at best.
I thought that Musial played most of his games in RF.

The post was about LFers, not LH hitters.

[west coast orange and black]

runningshoes:

Rule 5: voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.

the voters may very well include that passage from rule 5. here are a few questions of them should they choose to do so:

integrity: adherence to baseball's own ethical code, or society's moral and ethical code?

sportsmanship: the idea of "fair play" as in not breaking any of baseball's rules or not straying outside the lines of the conduct of fellow players?

character: see integrity.

[runningshoes]

runningshoes:

Rule 5: voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.

the voters may very well include that passage from rule 5. here are a few questions of them should they choose to do so:

integrity: adherence to baseball's own ethical code, or society's moral and ethical code?

sportsmanship: the idea of "fair play" as in not breaking any of baseball's rules or not straying outside the lines of the conduct of fellow players?

character: see integrity.

Integrity:see Jackie Robinson

sportsmanship: see Hank Aaron

character: see integrity and sportsmanship.

Whatever you do, don't talk to the woman he choked when he was dumping her; You won't find any of the three there. I suppose maybe that could count for sportsmanship in his world.

And while you're at it, I would skip the kids trying to get autographs as well.

And you might want to avoid Andy Van Slyke and Bobby Bonilla too.

And the injections in the ass so he could pump out 73..in which realm does that lie in, Tony?

What's that you say, "I could write a book?" ;)

[west coast orange and black]

i hear you on jackie and henry, man.
those are two brave, exemplary men.

only, there is only one jackie. only one henry. no other person can rightfully be expected to be on equal footing with them in any way.

my point about rule 5, and specifically bonds and rule 5, should it ever come to it :D is that is it baseball's own rules that guide rule 5, or society's.

surely (not your actual name) you recognize that as a valid point.

[Captain Cold Nose]

I thought that Musial played most of his games in RF.

The post was about LFers, not LH hitters.
Check the Man out, Matt. He was very much a left fielder for a good portion of his career. RF, not so much. Left and First.

[runningshoes]

i hear you on jackie and henry, man.
those are two brave, exemplary men.

only, there is only one jackie. only one henry. no other person can rightfully be expected to be on equal footing with them in any way.

my point about rule 5, and specifically bonds and rule 5, should it ever come to it :D is that is it baseball's own rules that guide rule 5, or society's.

surely (not your actual name) you recognize that as a valid point.

Your'e right; Bonds could never be on equal footing with either of them, but on the other hand, he has made no attempt whatsoever to reach that level.

He set the bar for himself and he set it much too low.

As for rule 5, I would think it's a little of one and a lot of the other.

[RBi]

I wonder how Ty Cobb rated on this "rule 5"

[runningshoes]

I wonder how Ty Cobb rated on this "rule 5"

Lousy, but that was then and this is now.

One would think we could learn from the past, eh? ;)

[west coast orange and black]

runningshoes: As for rule 5, I would think it's a little of one and a lot of the other.

One would think we could learn from the past, eh?

agreed on both accounts.
but we ain't voting.

prediction: bonds enters in first year of eligibility.

ps: no need to single out bonds not being holding a candle to jackie and henry. and, forget the world of baseball for a moment. not many men holding down any type of job can make that claim.
henry does have a notch in his uniform belt because of the alleged use of uppers, though.

[runningshoes]

henry does have a notch in his uniform belt because of the alleged use of uppers, though.

I don't really equate the two. If Bonds had been doing greenies I wouldn't have given the issue a second look.

I know some people compare the two and the edge greenies give the player, but beyond a bit of lift, I just don't see it.

[RBi]

Lousy, but that was then and this is now.

One would think we could learn from the past, eh? ;)

But at the same time one could say wait a second player A is in the Hall o Fame with obviously not living upto rule 5... why is player B being held out because he did not live upto rule 5..

hmmz, I think that this one is touchy, and a bit less cut and dry as some of you pretend to make it look.

It still is a fact, that he did not break a rule of baseball.... unlike Pete Rose.

Also, what if....

Think about this one..

what if a Doctor comes out and says, "I wrote a prescription for Barry Bonds"

so now he is LEGALLY taking a drug, and there is no rule against it in baseball at the time....

I think this sets the sport up to "learn from the past" and not let something like this happen again...

perhaps this should be the "past" that we learn from on this one.

There are plenty of players who are in the hall who had issues with rule #5, and you can not say that was then and this is now....

the fact that Cap Anson was a racist, that was still "WRONG" then.. accepted more? perhaps... but "WRONG"? NO DOUBT.

he was fighting rule #5 from his era.... and Bonds is fighting it in this era.

is it easier for us to forgive/accept someone who was outright rude, and judged people by the color of their skin (post civilwar)... than to forgive/accept someone who hit more homeruns due to the use of a drug?

hmz.

this makes me want to refer you to another thread you started:
What if Barry Bonds was White?
http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=40655

Is it easier to forgive Cap? than Barry.... then if that is true.. I wonder if it would be easier to forgive Barry if he were white...

I do not mean you personally, I just mean it sparks up points that could be discussed in that thread, and some are quick to say "that's hog wash..." but I say those people are living in a different world than me.... because it is in fact there....

Race is an issue we all face daily. FACT.

[runningshoes]

hmmz, I think that this one is touchy, and a bit less cut and dry as some of you pretend to make it look.

Are you trying to tell me we should justify Bonds because of past players' behaviors?

How many years has it been since Cobb retired? Are we going back wards or forward?

what if a Doctor comes out and says, "I wrote a prescription for Barry Bonds"

so now he is LEGALLY taking a drug, and there is no rule against it in baseball at the time....

Then I guess we'll have to start asking why Bonds was getting a prescription he didn't need, when he knew he didn't need it. That's a conspiracy. We can start a new thread about the two of them breaking the law together. ;)

I think this sets the sport up to "learn from the past" and not let something like this happen again...

perhaps this should be the "past" that we learn from on this one.

Actually no, we can't say that. Are we going to start using the past as an excuse to forgive matters in the present, because when we do that, we're enabling this kind of behavior from the players. It will never stop if they get a pass because Ty or Cap did.

It's time to start taking rule 5 seriously and then maybe our children will as well; on and off the field.

it is easier for us to forgive/accept someone who was outright rude, and judged people by the color of their skin (post civilwar)... than to forgive/accept someone who hit more homeruns due to the use of a drug?

is it easier?

I would hope not, but we aren't the ones who did the forgiving in 1939.

[west coast orange and black]

runningshoes: I don't really equate the two...

to compare the benefits of the two groups is ill-fitting, i think.
look at this way instead, runningshoes: those who used uppers back then used the strongest available substance available.

it is unreasonable to believe that players who used uppers - who broke the law - back then would not use steroids if steroids had been available back then.

[west coast orange and black]

CubsHub: what if a Doctor comes out and says, "I wrote a prescription for Barry Bonds". so now he is LEGALLY taking a drug, and there is no rule against it in baseball at the time...

smarter than yer average bear, cub.
don't rule it out. this story seems far from over. ;)

[west coast orange and black]

runningshoes: Then I guess we'll have to start asking why Bonds was getting a prescription he didn't need, when he knew he didn't need it. That's a conspiracy.

this is a disservice.
the two sf chronicle reporters fell into the same hole when they decided to openly muse about the *reason* bonds used.

[runningshoes]

runningshoes: Then I guess we'll have to start asking why Bonds was getting a prescription he didn't need, when he knew he didn't need it. That's a conspiracy.

this is a disservice.
the two sf chronicle reporters fell into the same hole when they decided to openly muse about the *reason* bonds used.

You are going to get the shock of your life when this all goes before the Senate.

I can't wait to hear the reason he needed a prescription for all the crap he put in his body.

[RBi]

You are going to get the shock of your life when this all goes before the Senate.

I can't wait to hear the reason he needed a prescription for all the crap he put in his body.

That is personal information and does not have to be revealed.

The Doctor would face charges, but with Barry's 162 games/year...

It could, (is it right.. no way!) but could be justified...

[runningshoes]

runningshoes: Then I guess we'll have to start asking why Bonds was getting a prescription he didn't need, when he knew he didn't need it. That's a conspiracy.

this is a disservice.
the two sf chronicle reporters fell into the same hole when they decided to openly muse about the *reason* bonds used.

They didn't openly muse about anything. They had his gf, mistress..pin cushion..what ever you want to call her...listening to him to cry like a baby because BIG Mac and Sammy were stealing the show..pardon the pun.

When he wrapped his hands around her kneck, how much of the discretion do you think went out the door?

But she's lying..right?

Barry wouldn't do something like that, not even if he was in a steroid induced rage.

[Mattingly]

Check the Man out, Matt. He was very much a left fielder for a good portion of his career. RF, not so much. Left and First.
Where could I do that? I even went to his site and it didn't show this in his bio:

http://www.stan-the-man.com/hall.of.famer.stan.musial.biography.htm

baseball-reference only lists him as "OF". How many games did he play in both places?

Still, even if he played mostly in LF, I'd put Bonds ahead of Rickey Henderson and Stan Musial. 8 GG and loads of offensive stats, even if many were reportedly tainted later on.

[RBi]

They didn't openly muse about anything. They had his gf, mistress..pin cushion..what ever you want to call her...listening to him to cry like a baby because BIG Mac and Sammy were stealing the show..pardon the pun.

When he wrapped his hands around her kneck, how much of the discretion do you think went out the door?

But she's lying..right?

Barry wouldn't do something like that, not even if he was in a steroid induced rage.

and there is never a story about an ex gf, ex mistress ... ex pin cushion.... making us stories either?

I wonder how much money she got for that great story..

did it happen? sure it could have... his word against hers...

And I am not saying it did not happen... by no way..

but it could go either way.. and I will not let the image he has to the media help me form my opinions on if it did or did not happen..

we read what the media writes... that is where we get our info..

Barry has does good things for others... but we dont read that in the media... Why? because he does not put on the Terrell Owens style shows for them...

and they despise him.... because of roids? no not at all... they love him for the use of roids... they despise him because he is not "nice" to them..

:) so they report what they want to create.... or lets say "help create" his image...

because in no way is Barry a saint..
;)

Is there anything else going on in baseball that we can talk about? I am done with the bonds topic for now..

:) good day.

[runningshoes]

and there is never a story about an ex gf, ex mistress ... ex pin cushion.... making us stories either?

I wonder how much money she got for that great story..

did it happen? sure it could have... his word against hers...

And I am not saying it did not happen... by no way..

but it could go either way.. and I will not let the image he has to the media help me form my opinions on if it did or did not happen..

we read what the media writes... that is where we get our info..

Barry has does good things for others... but we dont read that in the media... Why? because he does not put on the Terrell Owens style shows for them...

and they despise him.... because of roids? no not at all... they love him for the use of roids... they despise him because he is not "nice" to them..

:) so they report what they want to create.... or lets say "help create" his image...

because in no way is Barry a saint..
;)

Is there anything else going on in baseball that we can talk about? I am done with the bonds topic for now..

:) good day.

k..see you back here next month. :D

[west coast orange and black]

runningshoes: You are going to get the shock of your life when this all goes before the Senate.

hold on, now, pa'dnah. how is it that you claim to know what it is that i know?

[west coast orange and black]

runningshoes: They didn't openly muse about anything.

fact: the two reporters did not speak with bonds, the one man who would know.

[runningshoes]

runningshoes: They didn't openly muse about anything.

fact: the two reporters did not speak with bonds, the one man who would know.

I know things are getting heated, Tony, but there's no need to insult me. ;)

[west coast orange and black]

runningshoes, re the greenies v steroid thing:

do you think that players who took uppers back when steroids were not widespreadly available would have, if available, used steroids?

my point is that players who used uppers were pretty much using the strongest substance available.

[west coast orange and black]

runningshoes: They didn't openly muse about anything.

fact: the two reporters did not speak with bonds, the one man who would know.

runningshoes: I know things are getting heated, Tony, but there's no need to insult me. ;)

insult you? :laugh either they did or did not speak with bonds.

if yes, the two have info to which they can point; if no, then they are simply musing, not reporting.

[runningshoes]

if yes, the two have info to which they can point; if no, then they are simply musing, not reporting.

They are reporting what they were told by Kimberley Bell, you know; the girl who spent five years with Bonds?

Your whole argument relies on whether Bonds would have lied to them or not.

grand jury.

In all seriousness, would you have asked him?

[west coast orange and black]

^^ only, some of what bell has stated has been diminished by her own contradictory statements.
also, with the taped messages and stuff she appears to have acted as a person with a motive.
look at it this way: the feds pretty much just walked away from her and her claims.

my point is that the reporters do not know the *why*.

In all seriousness, would you have asked him?
because one never *knows* how bonds will react, yes.
also: due diligence.
also, what would be the harm?

[runningshoes]

^^ only, some of what bell has stated has been diminished by her own contradictory statements. also, with the taped messages and stuff she appears to have acted as a person with a motive. look at it this way: the feds pretty much just walked away from her and her claims.

my point is that the reporters do not know the *why*.

In all seriousness, would you have asked him?
because one never *knows* how bonds will react, yes.
also: due diligence.
also, what would be the harm?

Where are the lawyers?

[west coast orange and black]

which ones?

[Mattingly]

my point about rule 5, and specifically bonds and rule 5, should it ever come to it :D is that is it baseball's own rules that guide rule 5, or society's.

surely (not your actual name) you recognize that as a valid point.
I would have to say it would be society's "Rule 5" thing re being a good citizen, law-abiding, etc. If according to baseball's Rule 5, I can see Barry's agent and/or attorneys looking at the list of misdeeds done by people already in the HoF, citing them as examples.

[jaquish]

just another warped, frustrated old timer jealous at todays current players.

[runningshoes]

just another warped, frustrated old timer jealous at todays current players.

Perhaps the man just recognizes integrity or, in this case, a lack thereof.

But I'll respect your professional opinion if you insist.

[runningshoes]

which ones?

Bonds' lawyers.

Why arent they out there screaming at the top of thier lungs that none of this is true?

Why isn't he for that matter?