Thank You A-Rod, Damon, Jeter [Archive]

lautrec

03-13-2006, 08:52 PM

Thanks to A-Rod, Johnny Damon and Jeter, for playing for the US in the World Baseball Classic.

I'm sorry that you guys play for an organization so selfish, and completely absorbed in its own success that it cannot support the country that has allowed them to be a great competitor, year after year.

Personally, I root against the Yankees, every year, because of their "Evil Empire" status. I don't blame guys for signing the big contracts, because frankly, I'd probably do the same thing.

But this WBC is a true team concept. This is not the big business of Major League Baseball, where everything is about money and winning, so they can get MORE money. This is about country, pride and yes, TEAM.

So, I am ashamed to see something like the following, and I feel sorry for the players who have sold their MLB souls to Steinbrenner and his Evil Empire, but now try to redeem theirselves by participating in the WBC for the US.

TAMPA, Fla. -- Even before a pitch was thrown Saturday, the New York Yankees apologized to their fans.

The Yankees displayed a sign by the customer service booth on the main concourse, explaining it wasn't their fault Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez, Johnny Damon and Bernie Williams had departed for the World Baseball Classic.

"Thank you for expressing your concerns," the sign stated. "We are sorry that certain players will not be present for portions of spring training. These players have elected to participate in the World Baseball Classic. The World Baseball Classic is an event sanctioned by the commissioner of Major League Baseball and the Major League Baseball Players Association. The New York Yankees did not vote to support this event. Any comments you have regarding the World Baseball Classic should be directed to the commissioner of Major League Baseball or the Major League Baseball Players Association."

wamby

03-13-2006, 11:23 PM

But this WBC is a true team concept. This is not the big business of Major League Baseball, where everything is about money and winning, so they can get MORE money. This is about country, pride and yes, TEAM.

The WBC is all about money. It was created to open new international markets that MLB can sell merchandise to.

Pghfan987

03-13-2006, 11:39 PM

Shhhhhhhhhhhhh

I would rather believe that they are playing for the love of the game and for their country. Actually, the players are playing for that reason. They don't see the huge profits, the commissioner/ owners do.

Watching the WBC has made me a believer. Sure, you can say that everything about Major League Baseball is about money, and perhaps a lot of it is- it is, after all, a business. However, we are fans, not accountants, and so we would prefer looking at the joy of the players rather than the pocketbooks of the owners.

Mark

efin98

03-13-2006, 11:52 PM

The WBC is all about money. It was created to open new international markets that MLB can sell merchandise to.

And yet the stands are full of fans, the players are having the time of their lives, and teams that people only hear about once in a blue moon are being showcased as the talented titans that they are:rolleyes:

But what do those people know, it's still just a moneymaking scheme:rolleyes:

Blackout

03-14-2006, 12:16 AM

who cares what the motive behind it was? we're seeing some damn good baseball out there

pacewon

03-14-2006, 12:45 AM

I don't wish harm or injury on anybody, but I think a lot of people who have criticized the Yankees for having concern about their players would be singing a different tune if a key player from their team were to tear his ACL in this WBC and miss the '06 season.

A lot of people paid good money for Yankees spring training tickets to see the likes of Damon, Jeter, and A-Rod. What's the big deal if the team publicly apologizes to these fans for the absence of their players due to an event that they did not vote in favor of? This has been blown out of proportion by crybabies that need to grow up.

jpenrod

03-14-2006, 06:09 AM

I don't wish harm or injury on anybody, but I think a lot of people who have criticized the Yankees for having concern about their players would be singing a different tune if a key player from their team were to tear his ACL in this WBC and miss the '06 season.

Andruw Jones Bruised his back while playing in the WBC. I realize it is not a torn ACl, but you certainly do not want your teams MVP from last season starting out the year with a bruised back. In case you are wondering what happened, he slipped on the steps in San Juan. It seems like a freak accident but if you remember when the Marlins played in San Juan the steps were actually a major issue. So whaty as Cox's response? "those D@mn Steps!" He doesn't blame WBC or Andruw or the Netherlands or anyone else, he accepts it as part of the game.

I do understand steinbrenners concern and it is a real one, but I think there may have been a better way to handle things. In my opnion the sign was more to make a statement to MLB than to apologize to the fans, I mean lets face it when you go to a spring training game you do not expect to see a team of superstars out there playing for the same reason George says he does not like the WBC. I have been to numerous games down in FL the last 6 years and I have never seen an team start all of their regulars nor have the kept their regular starters in for the entire game.

rockin500

03-14-2006, 06:17 AM

And yet the stands are full of fans, the players are having the time of their lives, and teams that people only hear about once in a blue moon are being showcased as the talented titans that they are:rolleyes:

But what do those people know, it's still just a moneymaking scheme:rolleyes:
oh money indeed was a major contributing factor. not that that is a bad thing or anything.

Biggtone23

03-14-2006, 07:40 AM

The stands are full in Puerto Rico. They're about half empty everywhere else. No one is watching it on TV because most of us are busy sleeping at 2am on a weeknight.

No one in MLB is even trying to hide the fact that this is just to open foreign markets. Do you think Bud and Don Fehr actually care what country has the best players? They dont even care what MLB team has the best players as long as the league and union is making money nothing else matters.

Integrity (sp) of the Game? Only care about that because if the fans think the game is crooked they wont watch it or buy merch.
Rising salaries? Has long as teams can still make profit who cares?

Everyother problem in baseball? - As long as we make money who cares?

The bottom line is, was and always will be money.

Mattingly

03-14-2006, 07:49 AM

Mike D.

03-14-2006, 08:18 AM

George has an old, expensive, frail team. He's against the WBC because he's afraid his big payroll once again won't buy a world championship.

I mean, he used to be a HUGE advocate for international competition, but suddenly he's against it?

I figure any time the commissioner, 29 teams, and the players association are for something, and the Yankees are against it, that it can't be all bad. :D

Pghfan987

03-14-2006, 10:08 AM

How is the chance of injury in the WBC that much greater than getting injured in a Spring Training Game? Someone said Damon slipped on the steps- does that mean that we should not allow Big Leaguers to ever walk up and down steps? It's not like we are sending these guys to the front lines of a major world war. Wherever they go, there is always a chance for injury, and I don't see the WBC as making the risk all that much greater than if they were playing in Florida instead of Puerto Rico.

It is easy to point to some injuries in the WBC and say that they would have been prevented if it did not exist, but we can't do that, just like we can not predict how many extra injuries would have occurred had these players been playing in Spring Training games. Just take a look at a Spring Training game roster- people miss with tweaked shoulders, sore backs, etc. all the time.

Blackout

03-14-2006, 10:28 AM

pacewon

03-14-2006, 10:54 AM

George has an old, expensive, frail team. He's against the WBC because he's afraid his big payroll once again won't buy a world championship.

Yeah, look at all these old guys the Yankees have participating... Jeter is 31, A-Rod is 30, Damon is 32 :rolleyes:

Mike D.

03-14-2006, 10:55 AM

and if David Ortiz tears something and is out for all of 2006, whats your tune going to be then?

just throwing that out there

either way, i like the WBC

If HE thinks that representing his country in the WBC is worth risking an injury to David Ortiz, and the man who pays his contract agrees, who am I to tell him otherwise?

I'd hate to see him hurt...but he could do it in spring training just as easily. Heck, a lot of freak accidents happen every year in spring training and the off-season.

I think the WBC does a lot for baseball internationally, and not just at the major league level, and the players are all there of their own free will.

Mike D.

03-14-2006, 10:58 AM

Yeah, look at all these old guys the Yankees have participating... Jeter is 31, A-Rod is 30, Damon is 32 :rolleyes:

I never said those three are old....but do you argue that in general the Yankees don't have one of the older, more expensive, frailer teams?

pacewon

03-14-2006, 10:58 AM

How is the chance of injury in the WBC that much greater than getting injured in a Spring Training Game?

That's simple. For one, star players are going to play more in the WBC than they would in ST, and secondly they have something to play for in the WBC - national pride - that will put them at a higher risk for injury. Several players that pulled out of this thing have noted that being ready for the regular season is more important to them. Do I want my team's best players busting their butts in Selig's meaningless money maker nonsense a few weeks before the season starts? No way, and I think it takes an ignorant person to slam Steinbrenner for feeling the same way (not talking about you here Pghfan, just people in general).

pacewon

03-14-2006, 11:00 AM

I never said those three are old....but do you argue that in general the Yankees don't have one of the older, more expensive, frailer teams?

I do agree with that, but since none of Steinbrenner's star players that are participating in the WBC are old are fragile it's a meaningless point to make.

Cubsfan97

03-14-2006, 11:13 AM

Im glad the Yankee players did play, they are defiently helping out the USA right now. This is the first time I've ever rooted for Yankee players. I love how the love for a country can bring bitter rivals to an agreement.

trosmok

03-14-2006, 11:23 AM

.....
The Yankees displayed a sign by the customer service booth on the main concourse,....[/COLOR][/SIZE]

The identity of whomever posted the hand lettered sign has not been determined, but it was certainly not a member of the Yankees organization. For one thing, the team was misspelled "Yankess", and when this error was brought to the attention of game day staff, the sign was promptly removed. Frankensteinbrenner would never apologize to the fans for anything, and certainly not for something he has no personal control over. The players' union and the commissioner's office are the ones putting on the show, and except for the lousy timing (March madness dominates the sports broadcasting in prime time), I think the exhibitions have been an absolute gas. Viva Cuba!:clapping

Mike D.

03-14-2006, 11:46 AM

I do agree with that, but since none of Steinbrenner's star players that are participating in the WBC are old are fragile it's a meaningless point to make.

Not at all...Steinbrenner was against the WBC because of risk of injuries to his players. His players tend to be more expensive and older than most, and therefore, more injury prone and harder to replace.

Just because the players who happened to go to the WBC from the Yankees aren't that old or injury prone, it doesn't change that it was the reason he was against it...rosters were decided well after the owners vote.

I mean, what other reason would he have to be against the WBC?

trosmok

03-14-2006, 12:24 PM

Not at all...
I mean, what other reason would he have to be against the WBC?

The State Dept. gave assurances to Fidel that no Cuban players could defect while on Puerto Rican or U.S. soil, so George couldn't get his hands on the top prospects from that country, and that is another big reason he wasn't too hot on the WBC idea. He wouldn't profit at all from the exhibitions, so he saw no reason to have his players participate since he couldn't get his grubby mitts on any of the loot this time around. The third reason I can imagine is that he didn't come up with the idea, and wouldn't be in charge, so what could he get out of encouraging or supporting the WBC at all? He is so shortsighted, as evidenced by his "win now, or else!" credo, that he can't see the future returns of expanding the fan base for international baseball.

Mattingly

03-14-2006, 12:46 PM

The State Dept. gave assurances to Fidel that no Cuban players could defect while on Puerto Rican or U.S. soil, so George couldn't get his hands on the top prospects from that country, and that is another big reason he wasn't too hot on the WBC idea. He wouldn't profit at all from the exhibitions, so he saw no reason to have his players participate since he couldn't get his grubby mitts on any of the loot this time around.
If that's true, then it's contrary to what I'd been answered to in this thread (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=40470&page=2) in the International forum re Cuba's politics. I asked and received the following:
Any Cuban who reaches U.S. soil, which includes P.R., is automatically entitled to refugee status if they ask for it. All any Cuban needs to do is approach a police officer -- or anyone else -- and say they want asylum. They would need to go get fingerprinted, etc., but that's it. There is no risk of being refused unless they had personally worked for Fidel and tortured people or something heinous like that.
So what about if they did this in the WBC, which was approved by both Cuba and the USA (after some stalls by US President Bush). Since Cuba played in PR around Friday, if one of their players wanted asylum at that time, would they be granted this?
Any Cuban on U.S. soil is entitled to asylum. End of story.

The agreement to allow Cuba to play in WBC does not change that fact at all. Any or all of the Cuban players or staff could defect and there's nothing Castro can do about it.

Obviously, Castro knows this, which is why at least 90% of the players are known communists or at least loyal to Cuba.
Still, that bugs me as somewhat unfair. Ya see, we Yankee fans enjoy going to the Baseball Supermarket and pick up "one of these, one of those" from unsuspecting teams. Hey, your team is next. :D :p

Blackout

03-14-2006, 12:49 PM

If that's true, then it's contrary to what I'd been answered to in this thread (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=40470&page=2) in the International forum re Cuba's politics. I asked and received the following:

Still, that bugs me as somewhat unfair. Ya see, we Yankee fans enjoy going to the Baseball Supermarket and pick up "one of these, one of those" from unsuspecting teams. Hey, your team is next. :D :p

is it possible for an MLB team to purchase the rights to a player from Cuba? or would Castro never rent out a player?

DoubleX

03-14-2006, 12:57 PM

is it possible for an MLB team to purchase the rights to a player from Cuba? or would Castro never rent out a player?

Sounds like that would violate the official embargo against doing business with Cuba.

trosmok

03-14-2006, 01:08 PM

If that's true, then it's contrary to what I'd been answered to in this thread (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=40470&page=2) in the International forum re Cuba's politics....

Much of what Agente Libre replied is true, but asylum status is far from automatic. In fact, every single defection is handled on a case by case basis, regardless of country of origin. Cubans get no such preferential treatment, but the current regime is still one of the best examples of good reason to seek refuge in the US. The State Dept. did indeed meet with Fidel's aides to offer assurances that the Cuban team would be kept together and discouraged from attending many otherwise public places in San Juan and San Diego; no other team in the tournament was given the extensive security detail accompanying team Cuba. Still, if a player wanted to defect, he could quite easily avoid any attempts to prevent him from doing so, particularly because there aren't armed guards posted at the sides of the dugouts.

Mattingly

03-14-2006, 01:11 PM

is it possible for an MLB team to purchase the rights to a player from Cuba? or would Castro never rent out a player?
Ask in the International forum thread I'd linked to, which you'd quoted. "Agent Libre" and "Cubano100%" seem to be knowledgeable in that area.

My guess is just as good as yours in that regard.

pacewon

03-14-2006, 09:42 PM

Riverdog

03-14-2006, 10:34 PM

How come these guys got beat up? Huh? They may have looked impressive once in a while but they sure stunk it up other times. What's up with that? They didn't take it seriously enough. These guys are highly competitive athletes and need to stay at the top of their game because they are always being watched very closely.

Big Lou1224

03-15-2006, 12:09 AM

Mike D.

03-15-2006, 08:51 AM

You think Steinbrenner gives a damn if Al Leiter gets hurt in this thing? Give me a break.

Umm....what? :confused:

When did I say anything that could possibly be taken as "George Steinbrenner cares if Al Leiter gets hurt"?

west coast orange and black

03-15-2006, 10:02 AM

mattingly: Damon is sitting out his 2nd game because of some shoulder problem. Was George entirely wrong?

we can not go back and say so-and-so got hurt, so steinbrenner's fears were vaild. or none of his players got injured, so steinbrenner was wrong.
steinbrenner was either right or not depending on whatever one happens to believe about the rights of the individual player v the rights of the owning team.

west coast orange and black

03-15-2006, 10:05 AM

big lou: players can get injured taking out the trash in the morning. Playing in the WBC does NOT place them at any greater risk for injury...that is the lamest excuse for not being in favor of the WBC.

yer right about the trash. sometimes things just happen.
but teams have players under contract and own their services. if the unfortunate occurs and a player gets hurt, teams want the injury to at least occur on their own dime, so to speak.

Boston Boxer

03-15-2006, 11:24 AM

George Steinbrenner likes putting his best players on the field. He was against the WBC. When Jeter, Damon, A-Rod and Bernie participated, George was upset.

George has requested that Posada not participate for Puerto Rico, and was more than happy that Hideki Matsui didn't participate, as he may have been expected to, for Japan.

Johnny Damon is sitting out his 2nd game because of some shoulder problem. Was George entirely wrong on this?

I am with you on this one...for the money George (and other owners) shell out he should be able to ban them from playing. I think that a clause should be put into contracts or players have to sign a waiver stating if they choose to play in the WBC and they are injured, then part of their contract could be voided. If i am paying 10 mil on a player who cant play, then i am going to be plenty upset.

iPod

03-15-2006, 01:39 PM

Not at all...Steinbrenner was against the WBC because of risk of injuries to his players. His players tend to be more expensive and older than most, and therefore, more injury prone and harder to replace.

Just because the players who happened to go to the WBC from the Yankees aren't that old or injury prone, it doesn't change that it was the reason he was against it...rosters were decided well after the owners vote.

I mean, what other reason would he have to be against the WBC?

Maybe he just thinks the WBC is stupid, and that as a result of it, 3 of his best players are spending Spring Training not thinking about the Yankees.

trosmok

03-15-2006, 02:09 PM

...3 of his best players are spending Spring Training not thinking about the Yankees.

Or maybe only the first week or two, :laugh since Team USA might not make it to the next round. They sure didn't look ready to play against South Korea, and could face elimination if they don't beat Mexico. Mathematically, they could get bounced before even playing team Mex. if Japan beats South Korea in nine innings and score seven runs or less, according to the formula used.:cool:

Mike D.

03-15-2006, 02:14 PM

Maybe he just thinks the WBC is stupid, and that as a result of it, 3 of his best players are spending Spring Training not thinking about the Yankees.

So, he's adamently against it, but doesn't have a reason other than "he thinks it's stupid"?

Isn't that basically saying he doesn't like it because he doesn't like it?

trosmok

03-15-2006, 02:18 PM

...
Isn't that basically saying he doesn't like it because he doesn't like it?

If circuitous logics works, employ it.:laugh
Seriously, if you don't like something because "it sucks", and it sucks because you don't like it, the next logical question is: well then how come so much stuff in this world sucks?:waving

Blackout

03-15-2006, 02:32 PM

it looks like Damon has shoulder tendenitis

FlashGordon

03-15-2006, 02:35 PM

I was looking for a good thread to post this article at ESPN from Jim Caple (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=caple/offbase/060315&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab2pos2), and I think this is it. I think this captures some of the emotion I feel watching Yankee players representing the U.S. I've been wanting something like the WBC for over a decade now and I'm glad it's finally happening, more as a fan of baseball than as a fan of team USA. That said, I'm glad that the players who chose to show pride in both decided to ignore Steinbrenner's menacing and decided to show the world that there are some things more important than money. The sacrifice isn't quite on par with Pat Tilman's, but it's long since time that that we show respect for it.

Mike D.

03-15-2006, 02:54 PM

it looks like Damon has shoulder tendenitis

Damon's shoulder was giving him trouble for most of the second half of last year, so this isn't a real shocker.

VTSoxFan

03-15-2006, 03:01 PM

Damon's shoulder was giving him trouble for most of the second half of last year, so this isn't a real shocker.

He injured his shoulder diving for a ball in early June, in a game v. the Angels, and re-injured it diving back to second base on a pickoff attempt in... August? It began to seriously affect his swing about mid-August, anyway, and caused him to plummet out of the batting race. He still finished a respectable .318 or something, but had been hitting close to .350 for much of the season to that point.

Can't blame the WBC...blame Orlando Cabrera; he's the one that hit the sinking liner Damon dove for.

lautrec

03-15-2006, 04:25 PM

Well, after perusing this thread, it seems a number of you are in Steinbrenner's camp. I certainly can see the logic in George's reasoning, that hey, he owns these guys, lock stock and barrel, so he feels like he should have absolute control of them. There is definitely logic there.

Is the WBC all about profit? I sure wish I could say it wasn't. But, I think that would be naivete on my part. It does look like some of the teams are playing for pride and country, though. Perhaps it's very good acting on their part. I think the players do care, for the most part, though.

I reluctantly have to agree, that baseball is a business, and that said, businesses are about profit. This is a good thing, the concept and persuit of profit. I think my main wish, is that it wouldn't so outwardly appear to be solely for profit and bucks.

This will never happen, but what if, just what if,,,,,Steinbrenner, and ALL the owners got behind something like this, and said, hey, we're the US, this is our game, and we're going to field the best possible team, and SUPPORT them 100%, and treat them like baseball conqourers, and try to win this thing, FOR THE FANS, FOR THE US! You can count on us, United States Citizens!

LOL - I'm dreaming,,, I know. But, wow, would that make a difference?

pacewon

03-15-2006, 05:01 PM

I really don't understand this thinking at all...players can get injured taking out the trash in the morning. Playing in the WBC does NOT place them at any greater risk for injury...that is the lamest excuse for not being in favor of the WBC.

A player is more likely to get hurt in the WBC than in spring training because they'll play more and have something to play for in the WBC. If you feel the smallest tweak or pain in an ST game, you take a precaution and sit down. A player in the WBC would probably ignore something minor and keep playing because he wants to win. It's not an excuse, it's a fact.

pacewon

03-15-2006, 05:07 PM

Umm....what? :confused:

When did I say anything that could possibly be taken as "George Steinbrenner cares if Al Leiter gets hurt"?

I should have been more clear.

I said that Steinbrenner's main gripe is that he doesn't want his star players to get hurt in the WBC; his star players participating are A-Rod, Damon, and Jeter. You disagreed with this and stated that Steinbrenner is only concerned about his players getting hurt in general. The only other Yankees participating are Leiter and Bernie Williams, aging spare parts that Steinbrenner would probably care less about if they got injured in the WBC since they're replaceable, unlike the A-Rod/Jeter/Damon trio.

So I'll ask again: do you think Steinbrenner would care if Al Leiter got hurt in this thing?

If the answer is no, then you're agreeing with my original point that you opposed earlier.

Blackout

03-15-2006, 05:11 PM

Mattingly

03-15-2006, 05:38 PM

yeah, star players are more likely to make risky dives for balls in a game that means something (WBC) than a spring training game

usually in spring training games, the guys making Web Gems on baseball tonight are the same guys just trying to make the team
For that case, guys who are spring invitees or AAA guys being considered for September, they have to make efforts in order to impress the coaches and scouts. For a vet like Randy Johnson, if he has a poor start, he's still pencilled in for Opening Day, so he can take his time getting up to speed.

Guys like Jeter, Damon and A-Rod, I don't think they'd need to impress that much in ST, since people are already familiar with what they can accomplish.

Williamsburg2599

03-15-2006, 05:41 PM

pacewon

03-15-2006, 05:46 PM

The way i see it is that I rather miss part of the 06 season while playing for my country then boring myself in spring training as i try to concentrate with the pitchers jogging on the warning track.I would consider it an honor to take one for Team USA.

But that's easy for you to say, because you're not the one paying these guys tens of millions of dollars to "bore themselves in spring training".

Williamsburg2599

03-15-2006, 05:48 PM

But that's easy for you to say, because you're not the one paying these guys tens of millions of dollars to "bore themselves in spring training".
but i doubt because Ortiz is out playing in the WBC that whoever pays him doesnt have enough money to feed his family.There are more important things than money.

pacewon

03-15-2006, 07:29 PM

but i doubt because Ortiz is out playing in the WBC that whoever pays him doesnt have enough money to feed his family.There are more important things than money.

It's not about how much money the owner has, it's about the owner investing tens of millions on players to give it their all for his team, and if they get injured in the WBC they can't do that.