View Full Version : Willie Mays the Best Ever!
Street20
02-24-2006, 06:26 PM
Come on! Bonds may be the best home run hitter or the better average hitter, but Mays just was incredible! Please, voice your opinion on the best ever or the best Giant ever.
http://espn-att.starwave.com/i/sportscentury/inline/mays.jpg
Honus Wagner Rules
02-25-2006, 01:02 AM
The Greatest NY/SF Giants Ever:
1. Willie Mays
2. Barry Bonds
3. Mel Ott
4. Christy Mathewson
5. Willie McCovey
6. Juan Marichal
7. Carl Hubbell
8. Bill Terry
9. Buck Ewing
10. Roger Conner
SABR Steve
02-25-2006, 11:55 AM
The one drawback to Mays was his inconsistency at the plate. I remember those long slumps.
Brownie31
02-28-2006, 04:09 PM
Willie Mays the greatest Giant ever? No. Willie Mays is the greatest baseball player ever! Brownie31
Iron Jaw
03-03-2006, 01:35 AM
Come on! Bonds may be the best home run hitter or the better average hitter, but Mays just was incredible! Please, voice your opinion on the best ever or the best Giant ever.
Mays punched out 660 career homeruns with a bodyweight of 175-180 pounds throughout his career, including two seasons over 50, once in the pitching rich, larger stadiumed 60's.
I'd say Mays stands out numero uno amongst the Giant greats. And pretty tall among the all-time greats in baseball history.
Brownie31
03-03-2006, 10:39 AM
Mays punched out 660 career homeruns with a bodyweight of 175-180 pounds throughout his career, including two seasons over 50, once in the pitching rich, larger stadiumed 60's.
I'd say Mays stands out numero uno amongst the Giant greats. And pretty tall among the all-time greats in baseball history.
Amen to your post Iron Jaw! Also do not forget that Mays missed most of '52 & all of '53 due to serving his country in the military! What figures would he have ended with with those years added in the mix! Brownie31
Captain Cold Nose
03-03-2006, 10:55 AM
Top Giant?
I have Mays as the top player since WWII.
The Commissioner
03-04-2006, 02:59 PM
What are those things on his arm in the photo? Oh yeah, they're called "natural muscles". That was just a cheap shot I had to take... and I'm actually a fan of Barry's.
What are those things on his arm in the photo? Oh yeah, they're called "natural muscles". That was just a cheap shot I had to take... and I'm actually a fan of Barry's.
You've captioned the wrong photo if Bonds bashing is what you're after these days.
Old Hoss Radbourn
03-05-2006, 03:06 PM
Top Giant?
I have Mays as the top player since WWII.
Top player since WWII? A pretty decent case could be made for Willie Mays as the greatest player ever. One of the highlights of my life was meeting and being introduced to Willie Mays.
:clapping
Brownie31
03-05-2006, 04:06 PM
Top player since WWII? A pretty decent case could be made for Willie Mays as the greatest player ever. One of the highlights of my life was meeting and being introduced to Willie Mays.
:clapping
Amen & Amen! Willie Mays has no equal on a baseball field, now or in the past. Great post, Old Hoss Radbourn! Brownie31
The Commissioner
03-05-2006, 05:06 PM
You've captioned the wrong photo if Bonds bashing is what you're after these days.
No, you simply didn't read my post carefully enough. I was taking a shot at Barry by pointing out how in the picture Mays had natural muscles. I was assuming that anyone reading it could then infer that I meant "as opposed to those which Bonds (not pictured) has".
Old Hoss Radbourn
03-06-2006, 06:35 AM
Amen & Amen! Willie Mays has no equal on a baseball field, now or in the past. Great post, Old Hoss Radbourn! Brownie31
Thank you Brownie. :coffee
I guess I first started paying attention to baseball about 1965, so I missed most of Mays' best years, but I still think he was the greatest all-around player I ever saw. Growing up a Pirates fan, Roberto Clemente was my hero, but Mays was my favorite player who wasn't a Pirate.
Regardless of any arguement over offensive statistics, one area where Bonds completely fails in comparison is on defense. Willie Mays was an absolutely amazing center fielder. If you're not old enough to have seen Mays play, think of the best center fielder you've ever seen. Well Mays was better. Watching him run down balls in those big old ballparks was an absolute pleasure.
As for offensive comparisons, the thing to remember is that Mays played most of his career when there were only 16 or 20 teams in the major leagues. Just think what the quality of play would be today if there were only 16 teams! Granted, the influx of more latin players and some from Japan helps to make up for that, but it only makes up for it partially, especially as far as pitching depth is concerned (there are a lot of bad pitchers out there today!). And the pitcher's mound was higher in those days, giving the pitchers an advantage (it was lowered in 1969 because it was becoming increasingly difficult for anyone to hit .300 and every change in baseball since has benefitted the hitters, including today's ballparks). Also, the ball was not as lively then as it is now. So for Mays to have hit 660 home runs in the 1950s and 1960s was like hitting about 1,000 today (just as Babe Ruth could have hit 1,000 had he not spent so much of his career in a true dead ball era and as a pitcher!)
Dravecky43
03-06-2006, 01:55 PM
one area where Bonds completely fails in comparison is on defense.
Sorry, but I'm going to have to contest you on that. Yeah, I'm sure Willie was an absolutely outstanding defender- hence the multiple gold gloves and all of the plays that he made that will never be forgotten.
I think it's wrong, though, to say that Barry "completely fails in comparison" in the field. Have you heard that Barry has also won about 8 gold gloves? Well, he has, and he was an outstanding defender in his own right for most of his career. The only thing that Willie probably beats Barry by far on is arm strength- and Barry has such a quick release that some of Willie's lead my be cut.
No doubt about it, Willie was a better defender overall than Barry. But to say Barry doesn't come close...well, I think that's just a tiny bit of exaggeration you have going there.
Old Hoss Radbourn
03-06-2006, 02:29 PM
Sorry, but I'm going to have to contest you on that. Yeah, I'm sure Willie was an absolutely outstanding defender- hence the multiple gold gloves and all of the plays that he made that will never be forgotten.
I think it's wrong, though, to say that Barry "completely fails in comparison" in the field. Have you heard that Barry has also won about 8 gold gloves? Well, he has, and he was an outstanding defender in his own right for most of his career. The only thing that Willie probably beats Barry by far on is arm strength- and Barry has such a quick release that some of Willie's lead my be cut.
No doubt about it, Willie was a better defender overall than Barry. But to say Barry doesn't come close...well, I think that's just a tiny bit of exaggeration you have going there.
Lots of guys win gold gloves. Many of them aren't even the best defensive players at their respective positions, but rather win it because of who they are. Barry Bonds has been a good, but not great, defensive player. Willie Mays was not only a great defensive player, but arguably the best defensive player ever at his position. On his best day ever, Barry Bonds could not track down a ball the way Willie Mays could even into his late 30s. Willie Mays changed games with his defense. Barry Bonds was a very average outfielder during his days with the Pirates (where I often watched him from the dugout as a photographer) and, to his credit, he worked very hard to get better. Willie Mays was a natural from Day One. A collection of gold gloves doesn't put them in the same class.
Captain Cold Nose
03-07-2006, 08:24 AM
Top player since WWII? A pretty decent case could be made for Willie Mays as the greatest player ever. One of the highlights of my life was meeting and being introduced to Willie Mays.
:clapping
Very decent case.
wamby
03-07-2006, 10:31 AM
Amen to your post Iron Jaw! Also do not forget that Mays missed most of '52 & all of '53 due to serving his country in the military! What figures would he have ended with with those years added in the mix! Brownie31
Mays had 20 HRs as a rookie in 1951, 4 HRs in 1952 before he left for the army, and 41 HRs upon his return in 1954. It's easy to imagine that he could have hit the 45 HRs he needed to pass Babe Ruth if he had been able to play full seasons in 1952 and 1953.
west coast orange and black
03-07-2006, 10:36 AM
to any/all who believe that mays' muscles were *all natural*:
on what is this based?
Brownie31
03-07-2006, 03:19 PM
to any/all who believe that mays' muscles were *all natural*:
on what is this based?
What evidence is there to the contrary? Brownie31
west coast orange and black
03-07-2006, 03:26 PM
an assumption that mays played substance-free is just that, an assumption.
Brownie31
03-07-2006, 03:48 PM
an assumption that mays played substance-free is just that, an assumption.
True enough. However, this would hold not only for Mays but anyone else, then or now. It is also just an assumption that, say, Lou Gehrig & Stan Musial were substance-free. Again, there is no evidence against such an assumption. Brownie31
west coast orange and black
03-07-2006, 04:03 PM
Brownie31: However, this would hold not only for Mays but anyone else, then or now. It is also just an assumption that, say, Lou Gehrig & Stan Musial were substance-free. Again, there is no evidence against such an assumption.
yes, and no.
west coast orange and black
03-07-2006, 04:05 PM
Street20: Bonds may be the best home run hitter or the better average hitter, but Mays just was incredible!
bonds: "i can't carry willie's jock, man."
Iron Jaw
03-09-2006, 01:27 AM
Mays had 20 HRs as a rookie in 1951, 4 HRs in 1952 before he left for the army, and 41 HRs upon his return in 1954. It's easy to imagine that he could have hit the 45 HRs he needed to pass Babe Ruth if he had been able to play full seasons in 1952 and 1953.
Very true. "Say Hey: was just a kid then, and it's very conceivable that he could have punched out at least 54 homeruns in two seasons. Likewise, Ted Williams might have passed 714 had he not missed about 6 seasons with military service in WWII and Korea.
But then, how many homeruns might Babe have hit, if he hadn't spent his first few seasons as a full-time pitcher. Granted, those seasons were in the deadball era, but heck, Babe hit 29 in 1919, the year before the jackrabbit ball came to baseball. Babe was leaps and bounds above all others in HR's during that era.
Spectulation is fun.
Tigerfan1974
03-09-2006, 02:05 PM
Come on! Bonds may be the best home run hitter or the better average hitter, but Mays just was incredible! Please, voice your opinion on the best ever or the best Giant ever.
http://espn-att.starwave.com/i/sportscentury/inline/mays.jpg
An argument could be made for Willie as best ever.
He certainly had all 5 tools. I like Willie alot.
No, you simply didn't read my post carefully enough. I was taking a shot at Barry by pointing out how in the picture Mays had natural muscles. I was assuming that anyone reading it could then infer that I meant "as opposed to those which Bonds (not pictured) has".
I was making a joke. I think it's kind of silly to make stretch an unrelated photo into a Bonds joke when every media outlet on the planet has shots of Bonds in drag.