Dimaggio's 56 the best sports streak ever?

[Blackout]

Foxsports 'The Sportslist' had an episode of best sports streaks ever and rated Dimaggio's #1

who else agrees?




half the streaks on the list were baseball:

#1-Dimaggio
#2-Ripken
#4-Orel Herscheiser
#5-Greg Maddox
#6-Eric Gagne

along with Brett Farve's consecutive starts, which was #3, #9 Jerry Rice's games with a catch, and a few others I forget

[runningshoes]

In 1979 the Philadelphia Flyers went 35 games without a loss and they were by no means the best team in the NHL at the time.

The Pittsburgh Penguins' 17 game winning streak in 1993 is probably in the top ten and they came no where near the Flyers.

[Myankee4life]

Would Whitey's Ford consecutive scoreless innings count? If so it should have gotten consideration.

And Mattingly's HR streak is pretty nice.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

I agree with their #1 but not their #2

A couple other streaks:

In 1912 Rube Marquard won 19 straight games

Jack Taylor threw 187 consecutive complete games, ending in 1906.

[GiambiJuice]

I agree with their #1 but not their #2

A couple other streaks:

In 1912 Rube Marquard won 19 straight games

Jack Taylor threw 187 consecutive complete games, ending in 1906.

didn't Clemens have 20 or 21 in a row a few years ago with the Yanks?

[Sultan_1895-1948]

didn't Clemens have 20 or 21 in a row a few years ago with the Yanks?

Not sure, but pretty sure those were "decisions," and this was 19 straight "games started." Both impressive nonetheless.

[csh19792001]

Foxsports 'The Sportslist' had an episode of best sports streaks ever and rated Dimaggio's #1

who else agrees?



Joe Dimaggio
2150 Beach Street
San Franciso, CA 94123

January 3, 1985

Dear Joe,
My best wishes to you for a happy 1985. I hop you had a chance to see the NOVA show in which you so kindly participated. I have received so many favorable comments, with unanimous agreement that your appearance mad eth show.

I mentioned to you in San Francisco that my colleague Ed Purcell, a Nobel Laureate and one of the world’s greatest physicists, had determined that your fifty-six-game hitting streak was, statistically, the most unusual and unexpected great event in the history of baseball. Ed recently sent me the enclosed note in which he derives the reason for his statement. The mathematical details need not be perused, but the chart on the back of the second page will give you some idea of how remarkable and unpredictable your achievement was in statistical terms. The top row labeled b represents lifetime batting averages of .400, .380, and .300. The first column, labeled n at the left indicates the number of games in a hitting streak- 40, 50, and 60 in this example.

The nine numbers in the chart itself give you the probability that a batter with lifetime batting averages of b will have a hit streak of number of games n over a career of 1,000 games. Just consider the .0096 value for a .350 lifetime average, and a 50 game hitting streak. This means that a lifetime .350 batter has only nine chances in a thousand to have a 50 game hitting streak in a career of 1,000 games. To make it more likely than unlikely that such a hitting streak would exist, the number in the chart must be great than .5- for a probability of greater than one-half.

Thus, there would have to be fifty-two lifetime .350 hitters in order to make the probability of a 50 game hitting streak more than likely (.0086 times 52 equal the crucial value of one-half). I don’t have my encyclopedia handy, but I think that only 3 people actually have lifetime averages exceeding .350 (Cobb, Hornsby, and perhaps Joe Jackson). But your streak went for 56 games, a value that would only become more likely to happen (than not to happen) if baseball included more than 100 lifetime .350 hitters.

You asked me jokingly if this analysis meant that your record would never be broken. Even us pompous academics wouldn’t dare to make a statement like that. But Ed Purcell’s analysis does suggest that of all baseball records, your hit streak is surely the one least likely to ever be broken.

Thanks again for you time and, especially, for your kindness to my son Ethan.

Sincerely,
Steven Jay Gould

Gould (2003), Triumph and Tragedy in Mudville (188-189).

Dimaggio struck out 13 times in 541 AB's that year, yet hit 30 homeruns in the worst park in baseball for right handed hitters. At his best, he truly was a perfect baseball player.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Love that letter Chris, thanks for bringin' it back. To think it took two great plays to end the streak, and then he picked right back up and hit in like 17 more straight games. What a freak. :eek:

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Thus guy was consistent, lots of contact, low strikeout totals. It may have been in the minors Pacific Coast League but still..... he had a 61 consecutive game hitting streak.

A while back I checked some stats on some of the longer consecutive game hitting streaks in the history of the game. All except one if I recall had low strikeouts, I think Paul Molitor had a fairly high number, high that is compared to the rest on that list.

Makes sense to me, if a hitter strikes out twice in one game, theres two at bats with no chance of getting a hit.

In 1941 Joe Dimaggio had a total of 13 strikeouts for the entire season and I believe only 5 strikeouts during that 56 game streak.

Some others, Sisler 41 games and 5 strikeouts during the streak.
Tommy Holmes 37 games and ony 9 strikeouts for the entire season.
Molitor 39 games and a high 22 strikeouts during the streak. How did he do it, he had as many strikeouts in those 39 games as Joe Dimaggio and Tommy Holmes had combined in their entire seasons, 293 games.

[KCGHOST]

And Mattingly's HR streak is pretty nice.

Uh, yoiu mean Dale Long's HR streak??

How about the Lakers winning 33 streak??

[Sultan_1895-1948]

That's pretty impressive. What year was that, in the Jerry West days yeah?

The '27 Yanks beat the St. Louis Browns 21 straight times that year. Not too impressive, but you'd think just one time they'd get lucky in there. Actually they did the 22nd time they met. 21-1 final record against them.

[Captain Cold Nose]

That's pretty impressive. What year was that, in the Jerry West days yeah?

The '27 Yanks beat the St. Louis Browns 21 straight times that year. Not too impressive, but you'd think just one time they'd get lucky in there. Actually they did the 22nd time they met. 21-1 final record against them.
West and Chamberlin, shortly after Elgin Baylor retired in 1972.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

That's pretty impressive. What year was that, in the Jerry West days yeah?

The '27 Yanks beat the St. Louis Browns 21 straight times that year. Not too impressive, but you'd think just one time they'd get lucky in there. Actually they did the 22nd time they met. 21-1 final record against them.

Not sure of the seasons, some time in the early 1930s the Yanks went 308 consecutive games without being shut out. Break it down with the 154 game schedule that equals two seasons.

[Tigerfan1974]

Foxsports 'The Sportslist' had an episode of best sports streaks ever and rated Dimaggio's #1

who else agrees?




half the streaks on the list were baseball:

#1-Dimaggio
#2-Ripken
#4-Orel Herscheiser
#5-Greg Maddox
#6-Eric Gagne

along with Brett Farve's consecutive starts, which was #3, #9 Jerry Rice's games with a catch, and a few others I forget

I think the '72 Dolphins perfect season was a pretty good streak!!
But I am still partial to baseball of course and Joe D. is among the best!!

[Twisted Wicker]

The Laker's 33 game winning streak and Favre's games started streak are up there with DiMaggio's streak.

Hershiser's is pretty tough too. Throwing that many (not sure of the exact number) of scoreless innings takes a bit of skill.

[Captain Cold Nose]

I think the '72 Dolphins perfect season was a pretty good streak!!
But I am still partial to baseball of course and Joe D. is among the best!!
Don't forget the '72 Dolphins did it with over half their games started by backup Earl Morrall. Granted, he was the starter for a couple Super Bowl teams . .

[west coast orange and black]

ucla basketball: 7 straight ncaa championships - 1967, '68, '69, '70, '71, '72 and '73.
(if they had won in '66 it would be 10 straight, they also won in '64 and '65; if they had won in '66 and '74 it would be 12 straight, they also won in '75.)

also, ucla won 88 straight in the early 70s.

[Cubsfan97]

ucla basketball: 7 straight ncaa championships - 1967, '68, '69, '70, '71, '72 and '73.
(if they had won in '66 it would be 10 straight, they also won in '64 and '65; if they had won in '66 and '74 it would be 12 straight, they also won in '75.)

also, ucla won 88 straight in the early 70s.
How about the Celtics 8 staright championships?

[csh19792001]

Love that letter Chris, thanks for bringin' it back. To think it took two great plays to end the streak, and then he picked right back up and hit in like 17 more straight games. What a freak. :eek:

You're quite welcome. Gould was a scribe in all things from baseball to paleontology and evolution theory. Was sad to see him leave us.

in 1933 at the age of 18, Dimaggio put together a 61 game hitting streak in the PCL (which, according to some sources, was almost comparable to the ML's of the early 30's). Oddly enough, the streak was stopped by a journeyman and the son of a Hall of Famer (Ed Walsh, Jr).

My grandfather's best friend (Joe) was at that game and saw the two incredible plays made by Ken Keltner. Joe born in 1920, grew up in Cleveland, and even got to see Ruth play in 33'-34'. I think he's the one (and I'm sure only) guy I've met that actually saw Babe Ruth play Major League Baseball.

I was so excited to hear what he had to say about The Babe, and the one comment that stuck out was when he mentioned about the way Babe ran "tippy toes", he said. The other comments were ala Willis Hudlin, who commented on the energy and the excitement when he came to bat being nonpareil. Probably much like Bonds the last 5 years, but taken to another level, given that the guy was almost like another species.

My grandfather saw Dimaggio hit his first big league HR. He's followed baseball and the Yankees rabidly for 70 years, and still believes Dimaggio was the greatest baseball player he ever saw. I'm sure he's far from alone in that assessment.

Love the avatar, Sultan. Can't see it real clearly, but it looks like Babe almost had a hitch.

[torez77]

How about the Celtics 8 staright championships?

That's the basketball record, but the sports record is in baseball, held by the Tokyo Giants, who won 9 straight Japan series from 1965-1973.

Josh Gibson's Homestead Grays won 9 straight league pennants from 1937-1945.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I think the '72 Dolphins perfect season was a pretty good streak!!
But I am still partial to baseball of course and Joe D. is among the best!!
The Dolphins are not the only pro football team to go undefeated. The 1948 Cleveland Browns also went undefeated, going 15-0.


http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/history/results/results.php

[west coast orange and black]

a streak that happens to be the longest is not necessarily the best.
different obstacles, schedules, leagues, eras, etc. may come into play for sake of argument.

[Tigerfan1974]

The Dolphins are not the only pro football team to go undefeated. The 1948 Cleveland Browns also went undefeated, going 15-0.


http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/history/results/results.php
I never said they were.
But the Dolphin's streak, in a different era from Cleveland, was longer and is impressive all the same.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Speaker had 9 straight seasons with 20+ assists. Would have been 12 but came up 5 short in 1918 (127 games).

35, 20, 26, 35, 30, 29, 21, 25, 23, 15, 25, 24

[wamby]

John Holway has an interesting take on DiMaggio's streak in The Last .400 Season. In not so many words he calls the streak a fraud that was assisted by too many questionable calls by official scorers (most notably Dan Daniel). I looked at Mike Seidel's book and the Sporting News to try to corroborate someof this but wasn't able to. Holway has a pro-Boston bias, but his claim was interesting and he isn't vague about which games he thinks have tainted calls. I've never seen it cited in a subsequent book, so I don't know if anyone takes his claim seriously, but it was an interesting perspective

[SHOELESSJOE3]

John Holway has an interesting take on DiMaggio's streak in The Last .400 Season. In not so many words he calls the streak a fraud that was assisted by too many questionable calls by official scorers (most notably Dan Daniel). I looked at Mike Seidel's book and the Sporting News to try to corroborate someof this but wasn't able to. Holway has a pro-Boston bias, but his claim was interesting and he isn't vague about which games he thinks have tainted calls. I've never seen it cited in a subsequent book, so I don't know if anyone takes his claim seriously, but it was an interesting perspective


John Holway, sounds like sour grapes. I can't recall the games he made note of off hand. It was quite a while ago when I did some research on those games, if I can recall he may have cited a few, I think his "too many" questionable calls is an exaggeration, in fact it is an exaggeration. "Too many" leads the reader to assume there were a great number.

There were as there are in most streaks what some would consider questionable, whats new.

One that I did find. June 17, Dimaggio hit a ground ball that took a bad hop and hit SS Luke Appling in the shoulder. That may be some luck but I don't see that being a favorable call for Joe. Appling never got a glove on the ball, I've seen plays similar to this in the 40 years I've been watching this game and have seen it called a hit almost all the time.

No glove on the ball, how do you call that an error, it may have been a cheap hit but it's a hit. Either it's a hit or an error and theres no way they can charge the fielder with an error. You can bet that all those on the list of the longest streaks had some luck along the way.

[Barnstormer]

John Holway has an interesting take on DiMaggio's streak in The Last .400 Season. In not so many words he calls the streak a fraud that was assisted by too many questionable calls by official scorers (most notably Dan Daniel). I looked at Mike Seidel's book and the Sporting News to try to corroborate someof this but wasn't able to. Holway has a pro-Boston bias, but his claim was interesting and he isn't vague about which games he thinks have tainted calls. I've never seen it cited in a subsequent book, so I don't know if anyone takes his claim seriously, but it was an interesting perspective

Yeah, I have heard this. Apparently Daniel was a writer for the New York World-Telegram and scorer at Yankee home games, knew the players, often traveled with the club, was certainly under a lot of pressure and indeed made a few questionable scorings on balls that should have been outs. Not many, but a few at crucial points. I could completely see this happening, scorekeeping is a very human endeavor.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Lou never had a 20 gamer. Teddy Ballgame's longest was 23 and Babe's was 26. Amazing doesn't describe 56.

Here's a couple links.

Breakdown of the streak

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brew/mon/streak30899.asp

And this pretty cool thing here (on the right hand side you can click on the red games and it give you recaps) Pretty sure the game Holway refers to is game number 30 on 6/17 against Chicago.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/dimaggio/maps/map.html

[Myankee4life]

Uh, yoiu mean Dale Long's HR streak??


Don Mattingly, Dale Long, and Ken Griffey JR share the record with 8.

[Appling]

I wonder which achievement would cause more excitement if equalled again next season:

.406 batting average?
56-game hitting streak?

[Appling]

A while back I checked some stats on some of the longer consecutive game hitting streaks in the history of the game. All except one if I recall had low strikeouts... I think Paul Molitor had a fairly high number, high that is compared to the rest on that list.

Makes sense to me, if a hitter strikes out twice in one game, theres two at bats with no chance of getting a hit.

In 1941 Joe Dimaggio had a total of 13 strikeouts for the entire season and I believe only 5 strikeouts during that 56 game streak.

I think BB also makes a difference. In that 1941 season, Ted Williams had 147 bases on balls in 143 games (just over one BB per game). Joe had 76 BB in 139 games. Fewer walks = more chances to get a hit.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

I think BB also makes a difference. In that 1941 season, Ted Williams had 147 bases on balls in 143 games (just over one BB per game). Joe had 76 BB in 139 games. Fewer walks = more chances to get a hit.

I was never thinking of a comparison of these two or what Ted might have done with less walks.

That was Ted's choice, known to all. He would rather take a pitch an inch off the plate even with runners on in some game situations, some hitters did not. Certainly not faulting him, one of the greatest hitters in the game. On the other hand not taking anything away from Joe for his style. I'm sure Joe struck fear in many a pitcher and could have drawn more walks in his career.

In the end I don't quarrell with your point, lots of walks, less opportunities to hit safely. In my prevouis post I was only pointing out that most on the list with long hitting streaks had low strikeout totals, Paul Molitor being one exception.

[Appling]

In 1941 Joe Dimaggio had a total of 13 strikeouts for the entire season and I believe only 5 strikeouts during that 56 game streak.


Isn't it ironic that Joe DiMaggio had so few strikeouts, while older brother Vince (with 134 strikeouts in 1938) held the MLB record for most strikeouts in a season for 18 years (until Vince was edged out by Jim Lemon with 138 strikeouts in 1956)?

Prior to 1950, only ten hitters ever had 110 or more strikeouts in a season; Vince DiMaggio contributed three of those ten seasons. Yet Joe DiMaggio never reached 40 in a season.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

John Holway, sounds like sour grapes. I can't recall the games he made note of off hand. It was quite a while ago when I did some research on those games, if I can recall he may have cited a few, I think his "too many" questionable calls is an exaggeration, in fact it is an exaggeration. "Too many" leads the reader to assume there were a great number.

There were as there are in most streaks what some would consider questionable, whats new.

One that I did find. June 17, Dimaggio hit a ground ball that took a bad hop and hit SS Luke Appling in the shoulder. That may be some luck but I don't see that being a favorable call for Joe. Appling never got a glove on the ball, I've seen plays similar to this in the 40 years I've been watching this game and have seen it called a hit almost all the time.

No glove on the ball, how do you call that an error, it may have been a cheap hit but it's a hit. Either it's a hit or an error and theres no way they can charge the fielder with an error. You can bet that all those on the list of the longest streaks had some luck along the way.

Another one Holway points out, on the very next day, June 18. Again it's Appling. That it was questionable is Holway's view. The game recaps describe it as a hard ground ball that Appling could only knock down, not even make a throw.

[yanks0714]

West and Chamberlin, shortly after Elgin Baylor retired in 1972.

They were the 'stars' but that team was weel rounded. Gail Goodrich, Happy Hairston, and Jimmy McMillan. Pat Riley was a guard off the bench.

If I'm not mistaken Wilt and Happy each pulled down over 1,000 rebounds, the first time that two teammates had done that. If the opposing team missed a shot they weren't getting a second chance.

BTW, the team that finally snapped the 33 game winning streak wasn't too shabby. Kareem's Milwaukee Bucks.

[Appling]

A long hitting streak requires the same things it takes to hit a successful Sac Fly:
* Put the ball in play -- Don't strike out!
* Don't take a walk
* Be lucky

[csh19792001]

John Holway has an interesting take on DiMaggio's streak in The Last .400 Season. In not so many words he calls the streak a fraud that was assisted by too many questionable calls by official scorers (most notably Dan Daniel). I looked at Mike Seidel's book and the Sporting News to try to corroborate someof this but wasn't able to. Holway has a pro-Boston bias, but his claim was interesting and he isn't vague about which games he thinks have tainted calls. I've never seen it cited in a subsequent book, so I don't know if anyone takes his claim seriously, but it was an interesting perspective

Funny, so much of what I've read from several Boston authors bashes Yankees and lauds Sox greats. Hmm... I wonder if there's even a tinge of sour grapes at play here. :o

Ed Linn goes out of his way to bash Dimaggio as a player and person incessantly in his Williams bio, while discounting all of the vitriol Williams had for the press, his weaknesses as a ballplayer, while jumping through statistical hoops to augment Teddy Ballgame at every turn.

Linn also goes out of his way to discredit any streak, ascribing steaks to nothing more than complete luck. This only serves to further diminish Dimaggio's the accomplishment.

Journalistic integrity (save guys like Peter Gammons) goes somewhat out the window when we're talking writers who're dyed-in-the-wool Sox fans discoursing on Yankees and Yankeedom. Even some of Shaughnessy's work has that tinge to it. I've lived Yanks-Sox my entire life- all people, all ages, men and women. The rancorous envy is seemingly universal.

You can take the Yankee hating Sox fan out of Boston....(you finish the adage). :)

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Another one Holway points out, on the very next day, June 18. Again it's Appling. That it was questionable is Holway's view. The game recaps describe it as a hard ground ball that Appling could only knock down, not even make a throw.

Nice work Joe. Check out that second link in post #28. There were a couple other close calls. Luck was definately on Joe's side.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Nice work Joe. Check out that second link in post #28. There were a couple other close calls. Luck was definately on Joe's side.

I don't doubt anyone hitting in a long streak needs some luck. Who knows how many astroturf hits Molitor or Rose cashed in on. When Keeler was playing fouls balls were not counted as strikes.

Joe may have had some luck but when you don't take many walks and you seldom strike out your going to generate some breaks all those balls put in play. After they stop him , he goes on another 16 or 17 game hiiting streak, theres more than luck at play here.

In that one game where there was a supposed close call, bad bounce off of Appling's shoulder later in the game, Taft Wright robbed Joe with a leaping catch. crashing into the barrier.

Again, I say to Holway, whats so questionable about a bad bounce that strikes the fielder in the shoulder. The official scorer did no favor to Joe, he had no choice, it's a hit a lucky hit but a hit.

.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I wonder which achievement would cause more excitement if equalled again next season:

.406 batting average?
56-game hitting streak?


How about a .424 BA since that is the modern record.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

I don't doubt anyone hitting in a long streak needs some luck. Who knows how many astroturf hits Molitor or Rose cashed in on. When Keeler was playing fouls balls were not counted as strikes.

Joe may have had some luck but when you don't take many walks and you seldom strike out your going to generate some breaks all those balls put in play. After they stop him , he goes on another 16 or 17 game hiiting streak, theres more than luck at play here.

In that one game where there was a supposed close call, bad bounce off of Appling's shoulder later in the game, Taft Wright robbed Joe with a leaping catch. crashing into the barrier.

Again, I say to Holway, whats so questionable about a bad bounce that strikes the fielder in the shoulder. The official scorer did no favor to Joe, he had no choice, it's a hit a lucky hit but a hit.

.

We're both on the same page. There had to be some breaks in there, but that's baseball. His approach gave him the best chance for success like you said, by not walking and striking out much. He was able to put a ton of balls in play, and on top of that, he wasn't a fly ball hitter. He was definately a feared hitter, so the streak speaks volumes for just how much plate coverage he must have had, to hit that many balls hard for so long.