I don't want to get anybody's hopes up...

[eddiejc1]

...but it is possible this could bring us the swing votes we need to get the lease passed. If seven members feel the way as D.C.'s next mayor, Adrian Fenty, there will never be a stadium built, even if the only thing D.C. had to pay for was infrastructure. Fenty has gone on record saying that he does not believe any of the development near Verizon Center has brought in $100 million to D.C.'s coffers and he still thinks that was a bad idea... :rolleyes:

Anyway, I'm getting off track here.

Developers Offer $70 Million for SE Land Rights (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/03/AR2006020302034.html)

Eddie Cunningham

[wilkerson_rulz-06]

...but it is possible this could bring us the swing votes we need to get the lease passed. If seven members feel the way as D.C.'s next mayor, Adrian Fenty, there will never be a stadium built, even if the only thing D.C. had to pay for was infrastructure. Fenty has gone on record saying that he does not believe any of the development near Verizon Center has brought in $100 million to D.C.'s coffers and he still thinks that was a bad idea... :rolleyes:

Anyway, I'm getting off track here.

Developers Offer $70 Million for SE Land Rights (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/03/AR2006020302034.html)

Eddie Cunningham
Eddie, nothing against you, but personally I'm tired of all this saga!
All I hear is stadium this, lease that!

Enough already, can't the mayor sign a stupid paper and get this over with!:mad:

(not yelling at you eddie! :))

[Bob Hannah]

The District city council has scheduled on its agenda for Tuesday, February 7, a vote on the baseball stadium lease agreement. This is significant because it was strongly felt council chair Linda Cropp would not place the vote on the agenda if she did not feel the vote would win a majority of seven in order to pass. Of the thirteen council members, proponents of the stadium could count on six votes. One former opponent, Kathie Patterson, who had only recently been opposed, is now counted as a vote in the yea column, leaving the bill one vote shy of passing. If the bill doesn't pass, say bye-bye to the new stadium and possibly baseball, as MLB still controls the team. With Cropp scheduling the vote, she feels the pendulum has swung the other way.

Just this afternoon, the Washington Post carried this story:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/03/AR2006020302034.html

Developers Offer $70 Million for SE Land Rights
By David Nakamura
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, February 3, 2006; 4:18 PM

Developers have offered to pay the District $70 million for the rights to build on land adjacent to a new baseball stadium, money that city leaders said would help cover potential cost overruns on the project.

The pledge was made in a letter this afternoon from Stephen Goldsmith, chairman of the Anacostia Waterfront Corporation, to Mayor Anthony A. Williams (D) and D.C. Council Chairman Linda W. Cropp (D). The letter was included in a larger package of documents submitted to the council that is intended to convince members that the city will be able to cover cost overruns without dipping into the city's general fund.

The council is sharply divided over a stadium lease deal with Major League Baseball that is critical for the project to move forward. Many members have expressed serious concerns over the rising cost of the project, whose price has risen from $535 million to $667 million.

Goldsmith and Williams went into a closed-door meeting with the council shortly after 1 p.m.

The Anacostia Waterfront Corporation was established by Williams to oversee development of the waterfront near the ballpark, near South Capitol Street and the Navy Yard in Southeast Washington.

Also included in the package to the council was a cap on stadium construction costs of $320 million. The cap was contained in a "guaranteed maximum price" contract between the city and the three construction companies that will build the ballpark -- Clark Construction Group, Hunt Construction Group and Smoot Construction.

The contract transfers the control of the project from the city to the construction companies, but also transfers the risk. The companies agreed to a guaranteed price of $320 million for the materials and labor. The price includes a $20 million payment from Major League Baseball, which the league promised in December.

If the companies fail to complete the stadium by March 1, 2008, their fees will be reduced by $100,000 per day, up to a maximum penalty of $5 million, according to the documents submitted to the council.

The documents also include a cap of $68 million for so-call "soft construction costs," including fees to architects and consultants.

In his letter, Goldsmith said developers have pledged to pay for the rights to develop on land within the 20 acres needed for the stadium project that is not taken up by the ballpark structure. Of the $70 million, $55 million will go to the waterfront corporation and $15 million will go to MLB.

The waterfront corporation has chosen four developers to oversee construction of a ballpark entertainment district just beyond the stadium site. Two of those companies, Forest City and Western Development, signed a letter stating they will pay $70 million for the three open parcels on the ballpark site. Two parcels are just north of the stadium abutting N Street SE and one is on the south side, between South Capitol Street and Potomac Avenue SE.

With the money, the corporation will pay for upgrades to nearby roads and an underground parking garage. The corporation also pledged to pay for cost overruns related to the city's acquisition of 14 acres for the ballpark and potential environmental remediation, as well as to help with other potential overruns related to construction.

Goldsmith's package stated that the corporation expected to take in millions more dollars from a special taxing district on new businesses to the area. Another special tax district farther from the stadium will raise money for a community benefits fund promised by Williams.

The council had also expected to receive a construction contract today. The contract, between the D.C. Sports and Entertainment Commission and the three construction companies set to build the stadium, was to include a special "guaranteed maximum price" contract that would cap ballpark construction costs at $320 million -- including a $20 million payment from MLB.

Very good news overall, Natsfans. As the areas bolded in the story show, the Waterfront corporation's $70 mil pledge, the cap on constuction costs for the stadium itself, risk transfer to the construction companies with penalties for late delivery, added to concessions made by MLB in December, will more than likely be quite enough to sway the seventh and deciding yea vote. Once that occurs, it is believed the eighth and ninth (?) (more than is needed) will come along. There will those on the council that will still flat out refuse to vote yes-probably Catania, Fenty, Barry and Schwarz, maybe Graham.

Very good news indeed. Everyone wins.

[Bob Hannah]

Sorry, eddie, I was so excited at seeing the story on the Post site tonight I didn't check the forum and started a thread myself! I'll merge them and add mine here. There will be some redundancy, but what the heck- things lookin' good!!!!!

[Bob Hannah]

Eddie, nothing against you, but personally I'm tired of all this saga!
All I hear is stadium this, lease that!

Enough already, can't the mayor sign a stupid paper and get this over with!:mad:

(not yelling at you eddie! :))
We are sick of, too, wliky. Too bad its not as easy as signing a piece of paper. Believe me, if Mayor Williams could do such, the stadium would be half way to completion.

[eddiejc1]

Sorry, eddie, I was so excited at seeing the story on the Post site tonight I didn't check the forum and started a thread myself! I'll merge them and add mine here. There will be some redundancy, but what the heck- things lookin' good!!!!!

Who is the sixth vote we can now count on? Schwartz or Mendelsonn?

Eddie Cunningham

[Bob Hannah]

Patterson. I understand up 'til a week or so ago she was considered a no, but was really a fence sitter.

On the yes side, along with her, there are Cropp, Evans, Orange, Ambrose, Gray.

No's -Catania, Fenty, Schwartz, Graham, Mendelson, Brown, Barry. From what I understand, Brown and Mendelson would be the ones to pull from this side.

[eddiejc1]

To be honest, Patterson was listed as one of the supporters a couple of weeks ago. Gray hasn't, so I assume he is the one who switched. We had better hope Schwartz and Mendelsson switch, because I don't think there is any chance of getting the others. They WANT the stadium to fail, even if it means killing baseball in Washington and paying millions in arbitrator damages. I do not have the same faith as others do that arbitration would force the Council to build the stadium, nor am I sure there is a "plan B" to build a baseball stadium off the Dulles corridor. Even if there was, why would baseball wait? Let's keep our fingers crossed...

Eddie Cunningham

[KingJ]

Remember: If the Nationals don't get a decent stadium, the terrorists win.

[eddiejc1]

Remember: If the Nationals don't get a decent stadium, the terrorists win.

:laugh :laugh :laugh

Thanks---I needed that!

Eddie Cunningham

[eddiejc1]

Patterson. I understand up 'til a week or so ago she was considered a no, but was really a fence sitter.

On the yes side, along with her, there are Cropp, Evans, Orange, Ambrose, Gray.

No's -Catania, Fenty, Schwartz, Graham, Mendelson, Brown, Barry. From what I understand, Brown and Mendelson would be the ones to pull from this side.

Kwame Brown has supposedly asked Linda Cropp to delay the vote, which worries me since he is supposed to be a swing vote. What worries me is that Brown might not be checking over the facts to make sure this saves money, but to find some reason to vote against this. Fenty and company will not listen to arguments that baseball, basketball, and hockey will help the city economically---as far as they are concerned, it is unconscionable for the District to spend ANY money on a sports facility. All the development around MCI/Verizon Center has not changed Fenty's mind about it. He would STILL vote against the center today, and he says that the development which took place around it did not bring much money into the city.

Why am I babbling? Because I am worried that at least seven Council members agree with Fenty, and if that is the case, no concessions in the world will get them to build the stadium. They want to kill the baseball stadium because they see it as a symbol of wasted priorities and a big extended middle finger to the suburbanites they view as the District's enemies. I don't think even arbitration penalties will change their minds, and if there is no workable plan to build a baseball stadium in the suburbs, the Nats will be history.

Eddie Cunningham

[Bob Hannah]

Maybe Brown wants the vote delayed because he thinks it will pass!?!:eek:

What boggles my mind is Fenty and Co. can be so blind. But for them to say devlopement downtown around MCI is ludicrous. Just look at the Penn Quarter area. I don't believe a major sports facility in and of itself is the answer to a city's economic woes, but it is just plain foolish to say there are no benefits reaped.

Fenty is foolish to want to stick it to the suburbanites-along with tourism thats what brings money into the D.C. coffers. D.C. has made noise for years in regard to a commuter tax, but they can't legally pass one. What with special tax districts that go along with the lease agreement, and the fact that 80% of Nationals seats are sold to those outside the district, these guys are plain nuts not to see the long range benefits. They are effectively getting non-resident dollars placed into the treasury.

I'll ammend my earlier post. I believe it is Schwartz, not Mendelson, who is a swing vote. And I believe you are correct, eddie, citing Patterson as having jumped into the yea fold, with Gray leaning that way.

The one who kills me is Graham. He seems more clueless each time he opens his mouth. He speaks of what should be done with money generated from the project, yet is a nay vote. Doesn't he realize there will be no money if the nays have it?

On Monday the federal government decides how much they will spend on Metro. Watch this vote. If it covers enough to renovate the Navy Yard to accomodate baseball that will be a telling sign. There are politicians wanting baseball in the city. This goes deeper than the city council.

[Uncle Dak]

Who is the sixth vote we can now count on? Schwartz or Mendelsonn?

Eddie Cunningham

If you live in the area, send an e-mail to the DC City Council and let them know you support the new stadium. Even if you live in MD or No VA, you are bringing cash to the district on account of the new team and ballpark. The project will be a showcase architectural project and WILL spur development in SE.

dccouncilmembers@dccouncil.us

[eddiejc1]

This does not look good:

http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=25&sid=691403

It tells me right off the bat that all the HUGE concessions made have not brought over the seven votes needed, and I have a sickening feeling that even if this emergency legislation were to pass, the other side would make more demands because deep down, they DON'T want a compromise and they DON'T want a stadium. Let's hope there is a "Plan B" in Virginia...

Eddie Cunningham

[eddiejc1]

If you live in the area, send an e-mail to the DC City Council and let them know you support the new stadium. Even if you live in MD or No VA, you are bringing cash to the district on account of the new team and ballpark. The project will be a showcase architectural project and WILL spur development in SE.

dccouncilmembers@dccouncil.us

They won't listen to me, but here's the e-mail I sent them. The only thing I am not posting here that was in my e-mail was my mailing address and phone numbers:

Dear Madam Chairman and fellow Council Members:

I will be brief. I am not a resident of the District of Columbia,
but I am a lifelong resident of Silver Spring, MD and a longtime
baseball fan. 20 years ago, I was writing letters to Peter Ueberroth
begging MLB to put a major league team in Washington, D.C. Now
it seems that out of spite, a majority of you want to throw this away,
despite the enormous concessions made this past weekend.

I believe that if you wish, an adequate compromise can be reached
to build the park AND meet the other budget requirements of D.C.
citizens, including the new school construction budget. But if you
decide that you would rather not have my money spent at or near
a new baseball park, then you won't have it spent elsewhere in D.C---
ever. Rest assured I will not forget who was responsible for killing
D.C.'s chances of keeping its first major league baseball team in
a third of a century. Thank you very much.

Sincerely,

Edward J. Cunningham

[eddiejc1]

Here is more info on the emergency legislation. I've got a sinking feeling about this. Mendelson claims that none of the eight "no" votes have changed, and I believe he is one of the softest "no"s in the bunch.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/06/AR2006020601396.html

Eddie Cunningham

[ed hardiman]

Where do you think the Nats will be playing next year? Las Vegas? Did you hear the knuckleheaded councilman on the news tonight? Thank God I only have to endure slow death by the Phillies cause the sucking chest wound the Nats will leave when they depart DC will be absolutely fatal to baseball fans in the area.

[Bob Hannah]

I don't think all is lost. The Federal budget passed the $20 million for the Navy Yard station upgrade. D.C. will vote itself $100 million per year for ten years to overhaul the school system. Things are lining up to get the votes needed.

[Bob Hannah]

Where do you think the Nats will be playing next year? Las Vegas? Did you hear the knuckleheaded councilman on the news tonight? Thank God I only have to endure slow death by the Phillies cause the sucking chest wound the Nats will leave when they depart DC will be absolutely fatal to baseball fans in the area.
Should the ma fa chest wizzle prove fatal, save a seat at the Stool for me, ed. Fire me up a Uguey dog and the large Ballentine.

[Uncle Dak]

This is just a pathetic show. Poor DC. :ughh

Well there is still achance that the next step would be binding arbitration if the the DC Council fails to approve the compromise developed during mediation. MLB still has a contract with DC.

[Bob Hannah]

Cropp will offer emergency legialation to cap the stadium only costs at $300. Emergency legislation needs a 9-4 vote to pass. Would she offer such a bill if she knew it were to be voted down?

"We're trying to determine how we can effectuate a cap that has real meaning," said Vincent C. Gray (D-Ward 7), who is considered a swing vote among mayoral aides. "We want to approve our own cap and let them conform the lease to that."
As a swing vote, Gray ( from the Washington Post) sounds willing to pass the Cropp cap and the lease.

Also from the Post-
"There is a lot the mayor has not delivered," said Kwame R. Brown (D-At Large), another swing vote. "There's a lot of work left to be done."

Brown also sounds open to the Cropp and lease agreement.

David A. Catania (I-At Large) said the cap offered by the mayor "will just postpone the day of reckoning until the true costs are known. This is not a cap on the costs but an accounting sleight of hand."
Catania (again, the Post), always a vocal opponent of new stadium, is speaking here of Mayor Williams cap, not the one Cropp will offer. I think its actually encouraging for Catania to not dismiss a Cropp cap out of hand. But no way I would actually count on his vote.

The order of the vote will be important. From what I gather at other sources, just as some council members don't want to be labled as the schmuck who voted in an agreement that wouldn't be good for the city, i.e., casting the seventh yea vote, there are also the political ramifications of being the same schmuck that voted the stadium lease down by casting the seventh nay vote. If the lease is voted down the deal would go to binding arbitration and D.C. would get screwed there.

If it comes down to a tie, look for absentions. If I'm not wrong a tie vote would allow the lease bill to pass.

[Uncle Dak]

This does not look good:

http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=25&sid=691403

It tells me right off the bat that all the HUGE concessions made have not brought over the seven votes needed, and I have a sickening feeling that even if this emergency legislation were to pass, the other side would make more demands because deep down, they DON'T want a compromise and they DON'T want a stadium. Let's hope there is a "Plan B" in Virginia...

Eddie Cunningham

Sorry but I'll go to Keys games before I cross the river to see a Nationals game.

[eddiejc1]

Sorry but I'll go to Keys games before I cross the river to see a Nationals game.

Hopefully, it won't come down to that. But if this lease DOES get passed, I should try to drive to Potomac Nats games just to show solidarity with my fellow fans in Virginia. I don't like traffic, but I'm not afraid to cross the Potomac River!

Eddie Cunningham

[ed hardiman]

Should the ma fa chest wizzle prove fatal, save a seat at the Stool for me, ed. Fire me up a Uguey dog and the large Ballentine.
Fo shizzle.
You definitely get comped the next time you visit the Barstool.
While the DC council should get their greedy mitts off the Nats I never understand why a Kravco or Mall of America can't build a big-ass mall with an attached stadium?
Why do we have to pay anything?
40,000 employed, middle class people going through your your mall a guaranteed 82 days a year? Plus the Christmas season and any other events they book like concerts, dog shows, & monster truck rallies?
It's a blitheringly obvious no brainer dynamic.
If baseball doesn't like the idea of the modern MallPark they can step in and fund a stand alone Park from the billions of dollars they're actually are making after the accounting smoke clears.
Chuck the hot potato in their laps, my bet is the light switches on in their pig-greedy little heads and MallParks win hands down across America.
Besides malls are light years ahead in food court technology...

[eddiejc1]

From WTOP:

"Council member Adrian Fenty says that he believes Cropp has enough votes to pass the legislation."

For the moment, let's assume Fenty really said this. Why then, when he is finally telling me something I desperately want to believe is true I STILL DON'T BELIEVE HIM???

Eddie Cunningham

[eddiejc1]

The bright spot is that Governor Keane is willing to support legislation to get a baseball stadium in Dulles if the D.C. Council blows it, and from what I hear it looks like they are blowing it...

Eddie Cunningham

[eddiejc1]

I have refused to watch the council, but those that are say that the lease is being defeated 8-5. NOBODY swung over, and if all these concessions didn't do it, I don't think anything else will---even though D.C. will have to pay millions in penalties when this goes to arbitration. Let's just hope that Governor Keane can work out a stadium deal in Dulles to keep the Nats---or will it be the Virginia Senators?---in the Washington area.

Eddie Cunningham

[eddiejc1]

It's official. The lease is rejected, 5-8. I think MLB needs to forget about trying to persuade Adrian "The MCI Center was a horrible idea" Fenty and friends to build a park---no concessions will EVER satisfy them. The best we can hope for now is that a ballpark plan for Northern Virginia materializes. Otherwise, this team is history.

Eddie Cunningham

[Bob Hannah]

Fo shizzle.
You definitely get comped the next time you visit the Barstool.
While the DC council should get their greedy mitts off the Nats I never understand why a Kravco or Mall of America can't build a big-ass mall with an attached stadium?
Why do we have to pay anything?
40,000 employed, middle class people going through your your mall a guaranteed 82 days a year? Plus the Christmas season and any other events they book like concerts, dog shows, & monster truck rallies?
It's a blitheringly obvious no brainer dynamic.
If baseball doesn't like the idea of the modern MallPark they can step in and fund a stand alone Park from the billions of dollars they're actually are making after the accounting smoke clears.
Chuck the hot potato in their laps, my bet is the light switches on in their pig-greedy little heads and MallParks win hands down across America.
Besides malls are light years ahead in food court technology...

Because Bud and the Lords believe public financing weds a city to the team. The poor billionaire owner shouldn't have to foot any part of the bill.

Pass the cheese fries, please.

If Gov. Kaine pulls through, by 2010 a short drive up 28 North will have Batmanuel and the boys playing pepper for your enjoyment. Nine times a year. Practically in your own backyard.

Rail to Dulles, anyone?

[ed hardiman]

Because Bud and the Lords believe public financing weds a city to the team. The poor billionaire owner shouldn't have to foot any part of the bill.
Pass the cheese fries, please.
If Gov. Kaine pulls through, by 2010 a short drive up 28 North will have Batmanuel and the boys playing pepper for your enjoyment. Nine times a year. Practically in your own backyard.
Rail to Dulles, anyone?
I would find that even more convenient than driving all the way down the Prince Willy Parked-Way to see the Po-Nats...Needless to say Bob we'll have to hold a Baseball Fever Choir practice here on game days for the Dulles Nats...I'm right at Lee Highway & 28...

[Bob Hannah]

I would find that even more convenient than driving all the way down the Prince Willy Parked-Way to see the Po-Nats...Needless to say Bob we'll have to hold a Baseball Fever Choir practice here on game days for the Dulles Nats...I'm right at Lee Highway & 28...
After the eleventh hour dramatics from the sh... er, city council we'll see how Baseball reacts.

Vocal talents to go along with your poetic laurels? Quite the Renaissance man.

Sterling.

[eddiejc1]

Tom Boswell lives in the District, but I notice he is not jumping for joy at the last-second lease agreement. This is from the close of his revised column:

"As the sport considers the District's latest version of a stadium lease, it should cut the city precious little slack. If the District does not want the Nats, somebody else will. Maybe even the citizens of a friendly, sensible state just a few miles away."

Eddie Cunningham

[ed hardiman]

After the eleventh hour dramatics from the sh... er, city council we'll see how Baseball reacts.
Vocal talents to go along with your poetic laurels? Quite the Renaissance man.
Sterling.
I can only assume the drubbing they took here forced them to act. I think all of us share a bourbon induced inner Pavarotti...

[eddiejc1]

After the eleventh hour dramatics from the sh... er, city council we'll see how Baseball reacts.

Vocal talents to go along with your poetic laurels? Quite the Renaissance man.

Sterling.

I assume you are referring to the Bullets/Wizards' saying that the opera isn't over until the fat lady sings? I've got the weight, but I don't feel like dressing up in drag so the part of Brunhilde in Götterdämerung is appropriate. Fortunately, the finalé to another opera, usually sung by a fat man has the more appropriate line. I can't wait to sing, "The comedy is over!"

Eddie Cunningham

[Bob Hannah]

I assume you are referring to the Bullets/Wizards' saying that the opera isn't over until the fat lady sings?...
Eddie Cunningham

No, not that, eddie. But I do recall "Bullets Fever" by Nils Lofgren, orange jerseys, and Tiny.

I refer to our guest, the other ed in this thread. He hails from the forum of Phightin' Phillie fame, proprietor extrodonaire of finest saloon ever to hit this message center, a poet laureate (crowned no less by yet another who wears the same wreath of vegetable matter in his hair) and apparently likes sing after imbibing a few.

For fun, and to get through a bargain basement off season coupled with the whinings of a wannabe second sacker, I find the forum of the Phightin' Phils gets my baseball persona back in whack. I highly recommend it. While you're there, belly up to the Barstool and listen to the regulars as a fly on the wall would. Look around. Soon you'll realize the barkeep is not only a good baseball man but one hell an urban poet. He claims his verbal rhythmic talents are artificially enhanced. I think its the bourbon.

[ed hardiman]

No, not that, eddie. But I do recall "Bullets Fever" by Nils Lofgren, orange jerseys, and Tiny.
I refer to our guest, the other ed in this thread. He hails from the forum of Phightin' Phillie fame, proprietor extrodonaire of finest saloon ever to hit this message center, a poet laureate (crowned no less by yet another who wears the same wreath of vegetable matter in his hair) and apparently likes sing after imbibing a few.
For fun, and to get through a bargain basement off season coupled with the whinings of a wannabe second sacker, I find the forum of the Phightin' Phils gets my baseball persona back in whack. I highly recommend it. While you're there, belly up to the Barstool and listen to the regulars as a fly on the wall would. Look around. Soon you'll realize the barkeep is not only a good baseball man but one hell an urban poet. He claims his verbal rhythmic talents are artificially enhanced. I think its the bourbon.
Thank you Bob for your gracious remarks.
Baseball Fever replete with the highest caliber of baseball minds and musings is the true repository of the legacy of baseball.
Where else can you find compelling writers like that Brooklyn Poet Laureate who are every bit as competitive as Ty Cobb in their singular pursuit of baseball truth?
Contributors who dissect the relative sabermetric value of any player from any era for the simple price of asking the question.
It even tolerates blustering knuckleheads like myself.
Invaluable threads like 19th Century Baseball, the Brooklyn Bums, The Phillies & yes those mighty Nats, seamlessly weave divergent points of baseball into a compelling screed for any serious student of the game.
The Barstool thread, welcomes all, excludes none, embraces all topics and its small measure of success to date reflects the efforts of those same contributors I admire, applaud and look forward to reading daily.
No need to be a fly on the wall I encourage you Bob as well as anyone else to weigh in at the 'Stool.
There are no wrong opinions just warm beer and overpriced nachos.
As the great philosopher Pogo once said and Phillies management teaches us season after mind numbing season:
We have met the enemy and he is us.