enough with the coco crisp hype already

[ricky151]

The guy belongs in left field he is no andruw jones, or even nearly as good as grady size more or vernon wells. lets talk about real center fielders not the only half decent thing the red sox could put in center field.

[ricky151]

andruw jones
jim edmonds
ken griffey
vernon wells
grady sizemore

[monty]

we are all dumber after reading the above posts.

[KCGHOST]

The guy belongs in left field he is no andruw jones, or even nearly as good as grady size more or vernon wells.

What are you suggesting?? Benching Manny or moving him to CF??

[RichardLikeWhoa]

The guy belongs in left field he is no andruw jones, or even nearly as good as grady size more or vernon wells. lets talk about real center fielders not the only half decent thing the red sox could put in center field.


get outta here... those are the dumbest comments ive ever heard.. you're obviously just making comments like that to piss people off and brew up some arguments that aren't necessary.

[FlashGordon]

You know, Ricky151, if you want the Coco Crisp buzz to die down, starting a new thread with his name in the title won't accomplish that. What's more, you are in the Red Sox forum and he is one of their most recent acquisitions. If you think that Red Sox fans aren't going to discuss this move, you are very wrong. What's more, if talk about him bugs you this much, I'd suggest looking for another forum. If, on the other hand, you are simply trolling, you will be dealt with accordingly. I'll be sure to give the head's up in the Moderators Only forum.

[runningshoes]

The guy belongs in left field he is no andruw jones, or even nearly as good as grady size more or vernon wells. lets talk about real center fielders not the only half decent thing the red sox could put in center field.

Quack..quack...quack.

Old Macdonald had a farm......

[DoubleX]

It remains to be seen how Crisp will handle CF defensively over the course of a season, but he still should be a better option out there than what at least half the other teams in the league have in CF, especially since Crisp should contribute nicely at the plate.

Let's just run down the league to see where Crisp stands:

Yankees - Johnny Damon: It's close, but the defensive questions about Crisp give Damon the benefit of the doubt for now.

Blue Jays - Vernon Wells: I'd take Wells.

Orioles - Corey Patterson: No contest here, Crisp is the clear winner.

Devil Rays - Rocco Baldelli: If Baldelli didn't miss the entire year last year, I might give him the edge, but I'd take Crisp.

White Sox - Brian Anderson: Anderson is a rookie, and thus even more unproven than Crisp in CF. At least we have a good idea of how Crisp produces. I'd take Crisp.

Indians - Grady Sizemore: Just like the Indians, I prefer Sizemore.

Tigers - Nook Logan: Logan is very quick, but I'll take Crisp's offense.

Royals - David DeJesus: Give me Crisp.

Twins - Torii Hunter: This one goes to Hunter.

Angels - Darin Erstad: Erstad is likely moving back to CF from 1B to make room for Casey Kotchman. Erstad is good defensively, but his offense has been pretty mediocre the last few years, so I'll take Crisp.

Athletics - Mark Kotsay: This is close, but we know Kotsay can defend, so I'll give it to Kotsay for now.

Mariners - Jeremy Reed: He can defend, but has yet to show he can hit at the ML level. Until he develops, I'd rather have Crisp.

Rangers - Gary Mathews Jr: No explanation needed - give me Crisp.

Do just in the AL, I'd say that Crisp is already the 6th best CFer, and given his youth and his growth the past couple of seasons, he can certainly move up (though so can some people behind him like Baldelli and Reed).

Here's what we get when we throw the NL in there:

Braves - Andruw Jones: No contest. Jones.

Marlins - Eric Reed: A rookie, like most of this team. Give me Crisp.

Mets - Carlos Beltran: Beltran had a poor year and is vastly overpaid, but I'd rather have him as my CFer at this point than Crisp.

Phillies - Aaron Rowand: This might be the toughest one here. I think Crisp is the better ballplayer, but Rowand is the better CFer. I'm going to call it a push, but this could easily become Crisp's if he plays decently in CF (which I imagine he will).

Nationals - Ryan Church: Give me Crisp.

Cubs - Juan Pierre: Despite Pierre's down year last year, I think I'd still rather have him than Crisp right now. Pierre is a terrific fundamental player that excels at all the little things.

Reds - Ken Griffey Jr: There are two sides to this: Healthy, I'll take Griffey, but that's always a huge question mark.

Astros - Willy Taveras: Taveras has a good upside, but I'd rather have Crisp.

Brewers - Brady Clark: I'll take Crisp, by a hair.

Pirates - Chris Duffy: Crisp.

Cardinals - Jim Edmonds: Edmonds.

Diamondbacks - Eric Byrnes: Whatever questions there are about Crisp in CF, there should be even more about Byrnes: I'll take Crisp.

Rockies - Cory Sullivan: Crisp.

Dodgers - Kenny Lofton: In 1996, this would be easy, but since it's 2006, I'll take Crisp.

Padres - Mike Cameron: Have to go with Cameron.

Giants - Randy Winn. This is another really tough one. I'll this a push too.

So out of 30 teams, I'd say Crisp is tied for 13th best CFer in the Majors, with a lot of potential to move up that list. Not bad at all I think.

[SoxSon]

I'll hand it to ya, XX. You spend a lot of time responding to a guy who's trolling! :laugh :)

[DoubleX]

Just to summarize my last post for those who don't want to read it all:

I think right now I'd rather have the following CFers over Crisp (in no particular order):

Johnny Damon
Vernon Wells
Grady Sizemore
Torii Hunter
Mark Kotsay
Andrew Jones
Carlos Beltran
Juan Pierre
Ken Griffey Jr
Jim Edmonds
Mike Cameron

And the following CFers about as much as Crisp:

Aaron Rowand
Randy Winn

Which puts Crisp already in the top 50% of the league, and I expect that to go up.

[DoubleX]

I'll hand it to ya, XX. You spend a lot of time responding to a guy who's trolling! :laugh :)

I'm bored and procrastinating. Actually, whenever you see me make any of these long and silly analyses, just assume that I'm bored and procrastinating. :)

[Mattingly]

The guy belongs in left field he is no andruw jones, or even nearly as good as grady size more or vernon wells. lets talk about real center fielders not the only half decent thing the red sox could put in center field.
The problem here is that while you make a point about Coco Crisp not being as highly-rated as other center fielders, the way in which you make it leaves something to be desired. Why don't you make specific points, as to whether or not he's proven himself?

Without hold a poll, I think that most Red Sox fans here (correct me if I'm wrong) realize he's not the "ideal" guy in the #8 defensive spot, but is about the best they could reasonably acquire at the moment. While I also have questions about his effectiveness, I wouldn't go about belittling him here, especially in the Red Sox forum.

Please try making your points more on-target and elaborate a bit upon why you feel certain ways. If not, people will just scoff at your views as merely trolling and nothing more.

BTW, I've edited the thread title slightly, since his name is spelled "Crisp", not "crpis", though I've used lowercase to be consistent with your other text.
I'm bored and procrastinating. Actually, whenever you see me make any of these long and silly analyses, just assume that I'm bored and procrastinating. :)
In that case, please do remain very bored. I like it! :D

[Evangelion]

As usual, making every a topic have a good discussion and have a purpose. :cool:
Without hold a poll, I think that most Red Sox fans here (correct me if I'm wrong) realize he's not the "ideal" guy in the #8 defensive spot, but is about the best they could reasonably acquire at the moment. While I also have questions about his effectiveness, I wouldn't go about belittling him here, especially in the Red Sox forum.
At this point, I was willing to give up some on defensive end to bring a hitter that can support the lead-off spot the best. At this current moment, Crisp was best suited for the job. He might not be your ideal lead-off hitter, but he will reduce the lose of Damon on the offensive side by a large margin.

Again, I'm still shocked people are completely fixed on his defense abilities in CF. I thought there be more discussion of his importance being brought in to save this Red Sox line-up that lost the guy that Manny and Ortiz drove in for over 1/3 of their RBI's. Also, I'm aware of his issues at lead-off such as plate discipline.

[Mattingly]

As usual, making every a topic have a good discussion and have a purpose. :cool:

At this point, I was willing to give up some on defensive end to bring a hitter that can support the lead-off spot the best. At this current moment, Crisp was best suited for the job. He might not be your ideal lead-off hitter, but he will reduce the lose of Damon on the offensive side by a large margin.

Again, I'm still shocked people are completely fixed on his defense abilities in CF. I thought there be more discussion of his importance being brought in to save this Red Sox line-up that lost the guy that Manny and Ortiz drove in for over 1/3 of their RBI's. Also, I'm aware of his issues at lead-off such as plate discipline.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/crispco01.shtml

Actually, the person that Coco is replacing (not sure if it's safe to mention his name here) :D, he filled a very tall order:

-Leadoff hitter
-Scorer (including from 1B) on hits by Ortiz and Manny
-Defensive CFer (noodle arm & all) :p
-Quality baserunner

Coco's .345 OBP last season is what I'd consider "pretty good", though it's lower than my ideal .375 for a leadoff guy. Perhaps better suited for a #2 hitter. Speaking of which, had the Red Sox gotten someone else to leadoff, that may have worked even better. Sometimes the leadoff can be SS.

He does bat .300, so that's nothing to worry about. He's a switch hitter, so perhaps he can take advantage of both southpaws and righty pitchers as well. I may decide to stop being lazy and check his stats ... on second thought, lemme try doing this now.

In 2005, Coco's predecessor (http://baseball-reference.com/d/damonjo01.shtml) (aka, JD) had 197 hits and scored 117 runs. By comparison, Coco had 178 hits and 86 runs. I'm not sure if it was the Cleveland players' inability to get him home or he was simply at 1B, but Coco would need to step it up a bit in order to lessen the impact.

For an unideal player, I prefer going with the defense, since there's a limit on how many runs he'll drive in, either directly by hitting, or by keeping a rally alive. I feel that way, since if you look at it, if a guy has 200 hits in 150-160 games, he's considered excellent, especially if 40+ doubles. However, that's only about 1.3 hits per game.

Now if a guy can stop quite a few runs, I think he'll stop quite a few rallies. If someone makes a well-placed hit that could be a double, then someone else hits another one, the game could be blown apart very easily, especially with momentum. I can see a lot more than 1.3 runs being saved.

Given that the player doesn't kill any rallies, doesn't GIDP too often (Coco only had 7 in 2005), I'd be more in favor of defense, if I had to err on one side. Now the problem with this is that Coco hasn't had much defensive experience in CF. Like several other CFers (see XX's post about this), he's more of a LFer than a CFer, but he'd still need to take charge out there, calling off the next guy for a gap hit. There's lots of ground to cover at Fenway's CF, so I'm of the "show me you can do this" variety. Not trying to be down on anyone, but I need to be convinced by what he does in a game.

If he can at least get a B+ to an A for defense, offense, baserunning, then he should prove himself very popular, especially with his personality.

Now then, all he needs to do now is don a crazy haircut, or at least a crazy slogan. Mr Cowboy Up is gone, as is the Idiot. You folks'll need something new. :D

[sschirmer]

we are all dumber after reading the above posts.


That has to be one of the all-time BBF responses, and by someone with fewer than 20 posts. Welcome aboard monty!:clapping

[moebarguy]

There's no doubt that Coco Crisp will be a good defensive and offensive CFer...on a side note, that name is going to sell better than Fenway franks!

[Mattingly]

on a side note, that name is going to sell better than Fenway franks!
Who needs Wheaties when you can get your Coco Krispies? :D :crazy :p

If his playing goes well, he should be a smash hit. Dare I say cultural icon very shortly?

[Captain Cold Nose]

Even if Crip is not one of the 5 best CF in baseball, there are thirty teams. Boston could certainly do a lot worse than someone not in the top 5 but someone probably in the top half, at least.

[Mattingly]

Even if Crip is not one of the 5 best CF in baseball, there are thirty teams. Boston could certainly do a lot worse than someone not in the top 5 but someone probably in the top half, at least.
I think that if he hustles a lot and does his best to minize any damage done by any great hits, the fans and teammates will likely react accordingly.

My thing is tha the hasn't played much CF recently, and Sizemore was considered the better CFer. One of those strange things that happen when pitchers & catchers haven't reported, so there's no game to watch, listen to, enjoy, yell at, ...

*checks calendar*

D-OH, not yet. :D

[ricky151]

I did not mean to offend anyone and I did not violate anything , so relax. My point is after all the buzz i was starting to think the redsox had Willie mays in cf not coco crisp. Never mind all that, What is established is that coco is at best middle of the pack in the major leagues as a cf. I feel with Boston having Manny in left and trot who has injury problems in right a need for a good defensive cf is huge. Hitting the redsox will be fine. Loretta will probably have the best onbase percentage and might end up lead off even if he can't steal. Its not that i don't think coco is all that and a bag of chips; lets not get carried away expecting so much from him.

once again apologize if fans believed that i was trying to be rude or disrespectfull to them.

[RichardLikeWhoa]

I did not mean to offend anyone and I did not violate anything , so relax. My point is after all the buzz i was starting to think the redsox had Willie mays in cf not coco crisp. Never mind all that, What is established is that coco is at best middle of the pack in the major leagues as a cf. I feel with Boston having Manny in left and trot who has injury problems in right a need for a good defensive cf is huge. Hitting the redsox will be fine. Loretta will probably have the best onbase percentage and might end up lead off even if he can't steal. Its not that i don't think coco is all that and a bag of chips; lets not get carried away expecting so much from him.

once again apologize if fans believed that i was trying to be rude or disrespectfull to them.

appology accepted :D

[Mattingly]

I did not mean to offend anyone and I did not violate anything , so relax. My point is after all the buzz i was starting to think the redsox had Willie mays in cf not coco crisp. Never mind all that, What is established is that coco is at best middle of the pack in the major leagues as a cf. I feel with Boston having Manny in left and trot who has injury problems in right a need for a good defensive cf is huge. Hitting the redsox will be fine. Loretta will probably have the best onbase percentage and might end up lead off even if he can't steal. Its not that i don't think coco is all that and a bag of chips; lets not get carried away expecting so much from him.

once again apologize if fans believed that i was trying to be rude or disrespectfull to them.
Basically, I understand what you're saying, but when you-know-who was signed by you-know-which-team, there was understandably lots of frustration, both on the part of Boston fans as to who would fill that big hole suddenly created, and what was he doing running of with *THAT* team.

I'm not saying that Crisp is JoeD, Mays, Speaker, A. Jones or others, but at least a worthy successor has been found, to an extent. For that, I think that RSN would be happy.

You've already found someone to accept your apology, so just deal with it nicely. :)

[FlashGordon]

I did not mean to offend anyone and I did not violate anything , so relax. My point is after all the buzz i was starting to think the redsox had Willie mays in cf not coco crisp. Never mind all that, What is established is that coco is at best middle of the pack in the major leagues as a cf. I feel with Boston having Manny in left and trot who has injury problems in right a need for a good defensive cf is huge. Hitting the redsox will be fine. Loretta will probably have the best onbase percentage and might end up lead off even if he can't steal. Its not that i don't think coco is all that and a bag of chips; lets not get carried away expecting so much from him.

once again apologize if fans believed that i was trying to be rude or disrespectfull to them.Apology accepted. Realize, too, if you identified yourself as a Red Sox fan, we'd view your caution of over-exuberance (gotta get that Greenspan line in while I can) as something very different. For someone to drop in here out of the blue making this statement, it reads as trolling.

[Evangelion]

We can only wait and see what Papa Jack will do with Coco during Spring Training. If Coco did learn some discipline and patience at the plate, then just image how good of a lead-off he would be then. Of course, I'm dealing with a ''What if?''.

Though, I have to agree Crisp is ideal for the number 2 hole at his current state. He did a nice job at that spot last year before Sizemore came in and did an excellent job as a lead-off hitter and CF. Of course, Crisp is age does allow a lot of room for improvement. Once again, that's dealing with another ''What if?''.

Crisp's defense? Honestly, he was poorly ranked when he played CF. Of course, maybe he'll improve this season. We're sold on Sizemore after one year and we're sold on Crisp probably being a medicore level defender at CF? Crisp track record at CF was not great, but his excellent play out in LF does give me hope he can make the move back to CF a successful one.

At this point, a lot of CF are ranked over him. I believe the Sox have control of Crisp for the next four years, I believe. He could develop. He's been improving each year, so I don't know why everyone just going to assume he's reached his peak at this point. Like I said, just image him learning plate discipline and patience? Imagine how much he would improve as hitter. CF? He's got the speed to cover a lot of ground. Of course, when he started, he didn't do that good. We'll really have to wait and see.

It's not impossible imagine this guy could be up to Damon's level. I don't want to over-rate him, but I also don't want to under-rate a young player that just been improving each and every year. We'll see how he does in Boston. He could become another cult favorite in Boston or just another player. Only time we'll tell.

To sum up, I think there's room for him to improve at the plate, has a chance to prove he can play CF and be a legit leadoff this year and the next few years if Boston decide to stick with him.

Mattingly, he's perfect the way he is. Come on, his name is Coco Crisp. :D

People are already pushing that quote ''You coco coco for Coco Crisp?'' :D

[Mattingly]

Mattingly, he's perfect the way he is. Come on, his name is Coco Crisp. :D

People are already pushing that quote ''You coco coco for Coco Crisp?'' :D
You had me going until the part where you'd mentioned my name. After that, forrrrrrr-get it. ;)

Now then, what is his true name? Coco Crisp? Or Coco Krispies? Get yourself a bowl of milk and have some breakfast, buddy! :D :p

Speaking of breakfast cereal, I suggest you get your quotes correct. You go "Coocoo for Cocoa Puffs", from some talking bird some 20 years ago. Yeah, I kinda listened to a few of those awhile back.

Now then, will the Nation go Coocoo for Coco Crisp? Time will only tell. :crazy :waving

[moebarguy]

I did not mean to offend anyone and I did not violate anything , so relax. My point is after all the buzz i was starting to think the redsox had Willie mays in cf not coco crisp. Never mind all that, What is established is that coco is at best middle of the pack in the major leagues as a cf. I feel with Boston having Manny in left and trot who has injury problems in right a need for a good defensive cf is huge. Hitting the redsox will be fine. Loretta will probably have the best onbase percentage and might end up lead off even if he can't steal. Its not that i don't think coco is all that and a bag of chips; lets not get carried away expecting so much from him.

once again apologize if fans believed that i was trying to be rude or disrespectfull to them.

The thing is that he's better than a middle-of-the-pack player. He plays good defense, he's a switch hitter, and he's capable of putting up a .300 BA, .350 OBP, 20 HR, 70 RBI, 90 R, 20 SB season. He's also getting better every season. If I were a Red Sox fan, I'd be very enthused...